Start riding without MSF or not ride?

[Harlech]

Hi-

I'm interested in learning to ride a motorcycle. (Specifically the GZ250, which brings me to this forum.) Every forum and article online makes the MSF course seem essential to a new rider.

I would like to take the MSF course, but it is simply not an option for me. I live in HI, and there are no classes on this island. Taking the course would involve a plane ride and a (pricey) hotel stay, and possibly a car rental. That cost, along with motorcycle + safety gear would make learning to ride prohibitively expensive both in time and money.

I know an experienced rider who is also a car instructor who is willing to get me started, as well as loan me a few books/videos on motorcycle safety.

So my question is, should I go with the informal option or wait 2-3 years until I'm in a situation that allows me to take more formalized training?

[Water Warrior 2]

Welcome Harlech. I will offer a couple suggestions. Pick up a copy of Proficient Motorcycling by Hough. Lots and lots of info for new and experienced riders. Also pick up his other writings concerning riding too. Your driving instructor friend may be of valuable use but he/she may not be aware of motorcycle specific concerns. Your riding friend will be able to help you out but be aware you may be taught his bad habits as well as good habits. Hough's writings are generally used into most riding lessons as they are proven to be the best. Do lessons work, yes they do. After many decades of riding I took lessons at 62 years of age. Had to unlearn a lot of bad habits and gained better control and confidence in my riding. Parking lot practice with slow manuvers is a must for anyone. Anyone can go fast in a straight line but are totally at the mercy of luck in a parking lot.
Don't be afraid to make a fashion statement with protective gear either. It does make a difference when you drop a bike at rest or when it is moving.

[alanmcorcoran]

Harlech,

This is one of those touchy subjects on here and I am decidedly in the minority. So, understanding that this is strictly my opinion: I not only think the MSF course is not essential, I found it to be largely a waste of time. Not a complete waste of time and there is nothing wrong with it, but I found it to be very overrated compared to reverent status it's given on here and elsewhere. If you use the search feature, you'll find my reasons, along with a vast majority of other posters disagreeing with me. I think if you have some experience with a manual transmission, can read, can ride a bicycle (more bicycle experience the better) and are moderately coordinated, you can teach yourself how to ride in a parking lot with minimal risk. I also highly recommend the book Water mentioned above (Proficient.) It has a lot of great riding tips and is a beautiful book.

For the record, I eventually did take the MSF course, mainly to shortcut the Motorcycle licensing process and had no trouble passing it. There is actually very little time spent on the bike and the few good ideas they had, I didn't really have enough repetition or appreciation for them in the short time alotted to each rider. My class had 12 riders and most of the time was spent going over the exercises and setting up the cones and then waiting your "turn." I think the bulk of my riding improvement occurred more or less naturally simply by talking on here and mostly just riding the damn bike.

Take it slow, wear the gear and find an empty lot. You'll be okay.

[alantf]

Living as you do on an island (like me) do you find that the drivers are more courteous than on mainland America? Over here there are certainly a lot of idiots who shouldn't be allowed to drive a horse & cart, but by and large the car drivers seem to accept that bikes are the primary transport of a lot of people, & seem to watch out for riders, & move over to give them room to "lane split" in slow moving traffic. We have high traffic congestion. What's it like on Hawiai? We also have a 30mph limit on most roads. Is that the same on your island? :)

[dhgeyer]

I rode for a lot of years before I took an MSF course. By then I had read everything David L. Hough had written. I had been a subscriber to "Motorcycle Consumer News" for years, and they run several articles every month about issues pertaining to riding better, including a column entitled "Proficient Motorcycling", which carries on the tradition of Hough's books, which are themselves a compilation of articles written for MCN and its predecessor. I didn't learn much in the course that I didn't already know.

They did a study a while back in which they discovered that the safety advantage you get from taking the course disappears after about 6 months. So, like Alan, I am only a lukewarm advocate of the course. It's better than nothing, but not much.

All the information you can get from that course is out there in more complete form from other sources. There are probably videos on Youtube, although I haven't checked that. If you look around there are training videos from a number of sources.

Hough's 3 books are available from Amazon.com, and from The Whitehorse Press (google it).

[ND_Exclaim]

If you haven't already I would watch some how to videos on Youtube. That's what got me started. MotorcycleAssistant ?actually uses a GZ250 in his videos. CaptCrashIdaho ?has some great info and are fun to watch. But I I don't think they would replace training from someone that knows how to teach.

[Water Warrior 2]

I can see where Alan has a somewhat low opinion of the training. Lynda and I were in a class of 6 and spent 24 hours on the bikes over 5 days not including the classroom for 2 evenings. You have to have the time and money to commit to this course but it was well worth it.

[bonehead]

I'm like Dave. I rode for years before I took a course. It was an Air Force course to be able to ride the bike on base. It was more of an intermediate/advanced course that showed you the evasive manuvers and high speed stops and such. It was in my opinion very helpfull as I never knew about counter steering before I went thru the class.

I'm not so sure a basic MSF course is absoutly necessary, but I would highly recommend and advanced riders course to anyone that has not taken one.

[Harlech]

Thanks for the replies.

I actually already have 'Proficient Motorcycling' sitting in my Amazon.com cart. I'm just waiting on getting another order to take advantage of the free shipping.

Atlantf- The U.S. is a big place, so its hard to make a generalization. The drivers here are a lot more courteous then where I'm from, LA, but drivers anywhere are generally a lot more courteous and safe then LA drivers.

The speed limits are lower. The interstate (which in spite of the name, does not go across the state, let alone between states for obvious reasons) has a speed limit that varies from 45-55. In town is generally 25-35.

[blaine]

The speed limits are lower. The interstate (which in spite of the name, does not go across the state, let alone between states for obvious reasons) has a speed limit that varies from 45-55. In town is generally 25-35.
Welcome.The G.Z. will suit you perfectly.
:2tup: :cool:

[music man]

Thanks for the replies.

I actually already have 'Proficient Motorcycling' sitting in my Amazon.com cart. I'm just waiting on getting another order to take advantage of the free shipping.

Atlantf- The U.S. is a big place, so its hard to make a generalization. The drivers here are a lot more courteous then where I'm from, LA, but drivers anywhere are generally a lot more courteous and safe then LA drivers.

The speed limits are lower. The interstate (which in spite of the name, does not go across the state, let alone between states for obvious reasons) has a speed limit that varies from 45-55. In town is generally 25-35.


Where do you live at in Hawaii, I lived in Honolulu for about a year back about 20 years ago.

[Harlech]

Thanks for the replies.

I actually already have 'Proficient Motorcycling' sitting in my Amazon.com cart. I'm just waiting on getting another order to take advantage of the free shipping.

Atlantf- The U.S. is a big place, so its hard to make a generalization. The drivers here are a lot more courteous then where I'm from, LA, but drivers anywhere are generally a lot more courteous and safe then LA drivers.

The speed limits are lower. The interstate (which in spite of the name, does not go across the state, let alone between states for obvious reasons) has a speed limit that varies from 45-55. In town is generally 25-35.


Where do you live at in Hawaii, I lived in Honolulu for about a year back about 20 years ago.


I'm living in Hilo on the Big Island for the next couple years. I may or may not spend a year in Honolulu, but the cost of living there is frightening.

[dentheman]

I did a search of 'hawaii motorcycle course' and found the motorcycle course is held on the big island at the Hawaii Community College.

Here: www.hawaiimotorcycle.org/rider_training.htm (http://www.hawaiimotorcycle.org/rider_training.htm)

[alanmcorcoran]

isn't that what started the thread?

[Water Warrior 2]

No Alan we were dicussing the pros and cons of riding a Kawasaki in a sandy area. :lol: :lol:

[Harlech]

Probably should have mentioned it in my original post-

I've already contacted the C/c and according to them, the information is dated and there hasn't been a class on the island for 'a couple of years'.

[alanmcorcoran]

No Alan we were dicussing the pros and cons of riding a Kawasaki in a sandy area.

Sheesh, poking fun at a wounded warrior!

My baby is at the motorcycle hospital gettin' an estimate to be made all shiny and new again. I had mixed feelings about bothering with it as I expect it will not be long before I scratch it up again. But at least someone will check out the innards and make sure it's all cosmetic damage. The adjuster came out to the house yesterday and the guy that nearly killed me didn't change his story so my claim is pretty cut and dried. Watch out for guys parked in trucks facing the wrong direction on the left side of the road! They can shoot across the pavement when you least expect it.

I don't know the Hawaiian islands that well (I've never been!) but was pretty sure you gotta fly between them and I figured that's what Harlech was talking about when he mentioned planes, hotels and rental cars. Unless he's a really good swimmer.

[dentheman]

isn't that what started the thread?
What started the thread was the poster saying there was no course on the island.

I found a link that showed there was the course being held on the island. Then the poster informed me the link is no longer current.

[Water Warrior 2]

No Alan we were dicussing the pros and cons of riding a Kawasaki in a sandy area.

Sheesh, poking fun at a wounded warrior!

Well of course. ...................At least it was only the bike that was wounded. The KLR was a bit more crash proof before it was updated with all the shiney plastic a couple years ago. That said I am sure the aftermarket has a lot of crash proofing items for the new model.

[alanmcorcoran]

Stoopid shiny plastic. Does seem a bit inappropriate for the mission. Kind of like leather seats in a station wagon.

[dannylightning]

i never took the course, the course is personal preference and its basically for a person that has never seen a motorcycle before, at least that is the impression i get from a few people i know that did take it.

if you dont know any thing about a bike the course would be good, but it is not a necessity how ever i am sure it would even teach me a thing or two if i did take it. if ther is no course on your island and you really want to ride a motorcycle go for it, stay away from traffic as much as you can and take it really easy at first..

[Sarris]

It's the law in Florida. No takee, no ridee.

Ride without it and you can go to jail.

:)

[dannylightning]

Florida is not Hawaii lol

[IceBreaker]

and Hawaii ain't Florida either....LOL!

[frempath]

Though Florida will give you a motorcycle endorsement if you are trading in your out of state license that has one without asking any questions. I had a harder time coming up with enough proof of who I was because they would not accept my out of state drivers license as proof of identification.

[megocode3]

Everything taught in the MSF course can be found on YouTube. I'm sure you could ride without it but I wouldn't want to have my first time doing a swerve, hard stop or other evasive maneuver to be when my life depended on it. I'd checkout the videos then find a big empty parking lot to practice.

[Water Warrior 2]

The basis for 90% of all rider training courses is in written form. Pick up a copy of Profficient Motorcycling by David Hough. The book is an absolute wealth of knowledge. If riding a bike was a religion then Profficient Motorcycling would be it's Bible.
You can ride without training but you risk developing bad habits. Bad habits are dangerous. Reading and a real training course made me a much better rider after years of pure luck on the street. Now I actually have riding skills and experience in doing things right.

[waya]

The basis for 90% of all rider training courses is in written form. Pick up a copy of Profficient Motorcycling by David Hough. The book is an absolute wealth of knowledge. If riding a bike was a religion then Profficient Motorcycling would be it's Bible.
You can ride without training but you risk developing bad habits. Bad habits are dangerous. Reading and a real training course made me a much better rider after years of pure luck on the street. Now I actually have riding skills and experience in doing things right.


This is the one?


Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1933958359/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwcherokeele-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1933958359)

[Water Warrior 2]

Yes !! That is a nice price too. Hough also has a 2nd book "More Proficient Motorcycling". Also a 3rd with an entirely different name that I can't remember right now.

[waya]

This is an interesting quote from one of the reviews off of Amazon:


My brother had a motorcycle accident that may of been avoidable. When he went to the doctor, amoung other things, the doctor took out his RX pad and wrote the name of this book on it and said read it.

[Water Warrior 2]

Really excellant perscription. The Doc believes in preventing pain rather than treating it.