Couple on Harley killed Tuesday.

[dentheman]

Oct 12, Lubbock, TX, a man and woman on a HD were killed when a 24 year old woman in an SUV (Tahoe) made a left turn into their path. She was driving with a suspended license for numerous traffic violations and her license had been suspended once previously as well.

A case for vehicular homicide if I've ever seen one.

[blaine]

Oct 12, Lubbock, TX, a man and woman on a HD were killed when a 24 year old woman in an SUV (Tahoe) made a left turn into their path. She was driving with a suspended license for numerous traffic violations and her license had been suspended once previously as well.

A case for vehicular homicide if I've ever seen one.

That is so tragic,happens way to often!Will she be charged with vehicular homicide,or walk away with a slap on the wrist?

[dentheman]

I don't know, but will update if I hear more.

Correction: I said the SUV driver had her license suspended previously. It should read she had been previously cited for driving with an invalid license, but at the time of the accident her license had been suspended. Maybe not the same.

Now some around here are saying the motorcycle driver was an MSF coach!!!

[alanmcorcoran]

Left turns are the killers. All the street books stress being extra vigilant when you see a car waiting (or not) to turn left in front of you. I actually hold up one finger (not that one!) as in "wait a minute (for me to get past)" and try to make eye contact with them. If I don't get any reaction, I slow down to a crawl. I've had some near misses already. Some of the books say that psychologically, because you are NOT a car, they often really don't see you - and I believe that is true.

[Water Warrior 2]

Left turns are the killers. All the street books stress being extra vigilant when you see a car waiting (or not) to turn left in front of you. I actually hold up one finger (not that one!) as in "wait a minute (for me to get past)" and try to make eye contact with them. If I don't get any reaction, I slow down to a crawl. I've had some near misses already. Some of the books say that psychologically, because you are NOT a car, they often really don't see you - and I believe that is true.
Very true Alan. Most folks are programmed to see a car/truck and disregard anything smaller. That is why we are finally seeing day-glo helmets, vests, reflectors on clothing and bikes. Anything to get a drivers attention rather than just being part of the overall picture.
I will often weave back and forth in my lane when approaching an intersection. This does help change the picture the oncoming driver sees. Of course I also weave just for fun anywhere/anytime and wonder how many drivers are waiting for me to crash. Safe and entertaining.

[dentheman]

Yeah, I know from my bicycle riding that drivers just don't see you if you are smaller than a car. I now use a bright flashing daylight riding light on my bike and it helps tremendously. I see drivers staring at me as if mesmerized, thinking to themselves "What the hell is that"?

[blaine]

Left turns are the killers. All the street books stress being extra vigilant when you see a car waiting (or not) to turn left in front of you. I actually hold up one finger (not that one!) as in "wait a minute (for me to get past)" and try to make eye contact with them. If I don't get any reaction, I slow down to a crawl. I've had some near misses already. Some of the books say that psychologically, because you are NOT a car, they often really don't see you - and I believe that is true.
:plus1: I get especially nervous if they already have their wheels cut waiting to turn left in the intersection.
:sad:

[dentheman]

That is one reason I will be getting a headlight modulator (as well as LED brake light flashers) and a WHITE helmet. I have noticed a white helmet is the first thing to catch my eye at a distance, where a dark helmetted motorcyclist tends to blend in and is less noticeable. Also, at first glance the white helmet means motorcycle cop, since the police wear white helmets and no one else does.

[dentheman]

Another motorcyclist was killed this morning (Fri) in Lubbock. A lady driving an Avalanche turned in front of him, witnesses say she had the green turn arrow. And a fourth motorcyclist died from injuries from an accident that happened in September. That makes four that have died this week in Lubbock. Man, it's getting bad here.

[dhgeyer]

According the the Hurt Report about 25% to 30% of all motorcycle accidents result from a vehicle turning left in front of a motorcycle. There's was recently a big discussion on the BMWMOA forum about headlight modulators with respect to this.

There is no conclusive evidence that headlight modulators cause people to see a motorcycle better than a steady headlight. Personally, I always see the motorcycle before I notice that the headlight is blinking. I think some of that has something to do with the way the modulators work. The ones I've seen aren't very abrupt. The headlight turns on and off, but it's not really striking. A strobe effect would be more effective I think.

What I have noticed makes me see a motorcycle sooner is a very bright headlight. The brighter the better. Better yet are the three across setups that some of the cruisers have, but only if they also are very bright. I use an extra power bulb when available (GE Nighthawk H4 on the GZ250), and aim it straight ahead rather than down slightly. I think that helps. There is documentation that bright lights help, and the AMA recommends daytime hi beam use for that reason.

It has been documented that bright clothing and white helmets aid in being seen. Also, WW's tactic of weaving is sound practice, as it creates lateral movement from the point of view of oncoming traffic. A bike coming straight on is very much like a stationary object from the front, and people are much more likely to see movement.

So, bright clothing, white helmet, and bright light, and movement are effective strategies. A headlight modulator might or might not help.

Having said all that, it is still foolish to assume that any driver sees you. Hough advises getting on the front brake just enough to warm it up, eliminate reaction time, and scrub off a few mph whenever approaching an intersection with potentially turning traffic. I also try to either speed up or slow down to avoid a potential conflict, if I can see where a car is going to turn left. In other words, get through the intersection before the car gets to it if I can. If not, slow down so that I can be sure they are going to stop.

It's all part of "Do everything you can to be visible, and ride like you're invisible".

I don't know about other parts of the country, but here in New England, and the Northeast generally, it's getting more dangerous all the time. Enforcement is getting less stringent, and people are finding more things to do other than pay attention while driving. I think people are on average getting more aggressive, selfish, lawless, and short tempered also. One thing I noticed on my cross country ride was how much less traffic there was in the Midwest and a lot of the West. As the traffic thins out, people seem less aggressive.

We just had a road rage accident that injured a motorcyclist here in NH the other day. The car driver was a mother with a young child in the car.

[dentheman]

dhgeyer, I won't disagree with anything you have said, but I myself DO notice a modulating motorcycle headlight more readily than a steady one.

The one I have on my bicycle flashes a bright yellow-green, the same color as roadworkers vests, and I guarantee it gets attention. I suppose having such a color flashing on a motorcycle would be illegal. I think it's the color of the flashing light that makes it so effective, it stands out from other 'silvery' reflections better than a white light.

[Sarris]

As the traffic thins out, people seem less aggressive.
Boy DH, that's the truth. If I try and keep a respectable distance in heavier traffic, someone jumps in the hole. Here in Florida, most refuse to use their turn signals and will cut into a single car opening without any warning. Traffic here runs 5 to 10 mph over the posted limit and 25% of drivers speed at 20 to 25 mph above posted.

We also have a terrible time with red light runners and left turn signal light runners. I can't tell you how many times an impatient driver has honked at me at a traffic light while I'm looking both ways to be sure the coast is clear. My other bitch of the day concerns our Fla. law allowing a right turn on red. The law states that after a FULL stop, you can turn right on red if clear of traffic. Most drivers don't bother to stop and seem to think they are anointed by God to pull into oncoming traffic without even a glance, and of course don't bother to signal.

And cell phone use in cars is the newest scourge of the century. I think their use while driving should be totally banned. Most can't drive worth a shit without them let alone trying to talk or text.

I feel like I have a target painted on me. It's like the wild wild west trying to drive here. I thank the lord every time I get home safely.

The way people drive today is a direct reflection of the deteriorating society in which we live and the poor moral fiber of today's average citizen.

It's a damn shame.

:tdown: :mad:

[dhgeyer]

The way people drive today is a direct reflection of the deteriorating society in which we live and the poor moral fiber of today's average citizen.

It's a damn shame.

:tdown: :mad:

I totally agree with that, too.

[Water Warrior 2]

Yeah, I know from my bicycle riding that drivers just don't see you if you are smaller than a car. I now use a bright flashing daylight riding light on my bike and it helps tremendously. I see drivers staring at me as if mesmerized, thinking to themselves "What the hell is that"?
Hopefully they think "What the hell is that ? I better not hit it."

[Water Warrior 2]

Left turns are the killers. All the street books stress being extra vigilant when you see a car waiting (or not) to turn left in front of you. I actually hold up one finger (not that one!) as in "wait a minute (for me to get past)" and try to make eye contact with them. If I don't get any reaction, I slow down to a crawl. I've had some near misses already. Some of the books say that psychologically, because you are NOT a car, they often really don't see you - and I believe that is true.
:plus1: I get especially nervous if they already have their wheels cut waiting to turn left in the intersection.
:sad:
Here is another happy thought to make your blood run cold. They are sitting waiting with wheels turned and can see you easily enough. They wait patiently until some one runs into them from behind. Where does their car go and who does it hit? Stopping and waiting with the front wheels straight is safer for all concerned....................And still continue to ride and drive. Amazing.

[Water Warrior 2]

That is one reason I will be getting a headlight modulator (as well as LED brake light flashers) and a WHITE helmet. I have noticed a white helmet is the first thing to catch my eye at a distance, where a dark helmetted motorcyclist tends to blend in and is less noticeable. Also, at first glance the white helmet means motorcycle cop, since the police wear white helmets and no one else does.
I have all of the above. Seems to work so far. Every little bit helps in the search for longer life.

What are you getting for the tail end ? Hyperlights or something else ??

[Water Warrior 2]

The way people drive today is a direct reflection of the deteriorating society in which we live and the poor moral fiber of today's average citizen.

It's a damn shame.

:tdown: :mad:
Sarris, we grew up in a gentler time. Our only hope is to survive the mean streets and arrive home safely.

[dentheman]

That is one reason I will be getting a headlight modulator (as well as LED brake light flashers) and a WHITE helmet. I have noticed a white helmet is the first thing to catch my eye at a distance, where a dark helmetted motorcyclist tends to blend in and is less noticeable. Also, at first glance the white helmet means motorcycle cop, since the police wear white helmets and no one else does.
I have all of the above. Seems to work so far. Every little bit helps in the search for longer life.

What are you getting for the tail end ? Hyperlights or something else ??
I have no idea what I will be getting, I am just researching and daydreaming until I get a motorcycle. But I am getting my priorities in order (MSF was completed, license and helmet needed before motorcycle, motorcycle, flashing lights, armor, etc. in the order I will purchase), with safety items coming before farkles. I am kind of a safety nut, from riding bicycles for over 45 years, often with 18 wheelers whizzing by at 70-80 mph, and yet to have an accident. Had a few close calls though.

[Water Warrior 2]

Dentheman, I like your priorities.

[alantf]

My other bitch of the day concerns our Fla. law allowing a right turn on red. The law states that after a FULL stop, you can turn right on red if clear of traffic.

Over here the lights have a flashing amber with an arrow, to show that you can turn right on a "red". At night, when traffic is lighter, the red /green shuts down & all the lights on the junction flash amber. This means that no one has right of way, so it can become total chaos if lots of cars arrive at the junction at the same time. Still, must be some sort of Spanish logic to have traffic lights then shut them down. Other thing is, there's no detectors, just timers, so that when the lights are in use, even if there are no vehicles coming from a certain direction, the lights will give that direction a green, & all the other traffic has to sit & wait while no traffic flows. :cry:

[blaine]

My other bitch of the day concerns our Fla. law allowing a right turn on red. The law states that after a FULL stop, you can turn right on red if clear of traffic.
Here on P.E.I. we have the same law with the exception that there are certain intersections that have "Do not turn right on red" signs that everyone ignores.
:) :cool:

[music man]

Personally, when I am looking and paying attention like I should be in my car, I don't notice a car anymore or less than a motorcycle, AND, I get pulled out in front of just as often in my wifes big ass, dark colored SUV as I do on my motorcycle, which tells me one thing, if I am on my motorcycle, and someone hits me because they didn't see me, they wouldn't have seen me if I was driving a Huge, dayglow green Hummer.

Next time any of you are driving your cage, really pay attention to how easily you see motorcycles in traffic in comparison to cars, then tell me that the clothes that they were wearing or the headlight flickering in the sun, made you see the next one any easier.

I think if anything, people see a motorcycle just as often, but pull out in front of it more often because they are not really scared of getting plowed into by a little motorcycle nearly as bad as the big Dodge truck right behind it.

Because if people really believed all the hype about stuff like this, then everyones motorcycle would look something like this one, with an outfit and helmet to match.

[Water Warrior 2]

MM, we will have to agree to disagree on some of your statement. People are hard wired to see a car/truck far more than a motorcycle. If people are pulling out in front of your large SUV you should light it up and make it more noticeable somehow. My Ranger is a stupid grey color the same as asphalt and a bit hard to see. It does have DRL but I also turn on the driving lights or fog lights most of the time. Yeah, I know grey is bad but it was the best fit/options that I wanted and there was a lack of color variety when I was buying.

[music man]

MM, we will have to agree to disagree on some of your statement. People are hard wired to see a car/truck far more than a motorcycle. If people are pulling out in front of your large SUV you should light it up and make it more noticeable somehow. My Ranger is a stupid grey color the same as asphalt and a bit hard to see. It does have DRL but I also turn on the driving lights or fog lights most of the time. Yeah, I know grey is bad but it was the best fit/options that I wanted and there was a lack of color variety when I was buying.


No problem with the disagreeing, but..... have YOU ever pulled out in front of a motorcycle and said to yourself, hell I didn't even see that little motorcycle over there if he would have had flickering lights I would have seen him, or if that was a car I would have seen it. No it is more likely that if you do pull out in front of a motorcycle (or a big ole' truck for that matter) it was simply a case of not paying close enough attention rather than you not noticing a motorcycle because it was smaller than a car.

Because I personally am "hardwired" to see VEHICLES, regardless of their shape, size and color. According to what you and others are saying, I would be less likely to have a wreck in my SUV if it was yellow than if it was black, I am sorry, but I just don't buy into that.

And this statement "If people are pulling out in front of your large SUV you should light it up and make it more noticeable somehow" is really disturbing. If a large SUV coming at you is not noticeable, do you really think that turning the lights on bright in the middle of the day is going to help you?

This all goes back to my original point, If the person in the other vehicle is not paying attention like they should be, no amount of lights/bright clothes/bright motorcycle paint or anything else is going to make them notice you, PERIOD. The only people that notice all that stuff are people that were paying close enough attention to at least LOOK at you to begin with.

Now at night, all bets are off, the more lights you have, the better off you are, unless you have so many that you are blinding people, LOL.

[Water Warrior 2]

I started driving cars with their headlights on during daylight hours in the early 60's. Why you ask. Greyhound cut their head on collision rate by 50%. People couldn't see a bus during the day. I was driving a Mini at the time. Visibility worked then and visibility will work now. Let's call it a draw and find another subject to discuss.

[alantf]

I don't know if they still do, but Volvo cars used to have headlights that couldn't be switched off (like bikes now). That was because where they were made (Denmark, Sweden?) had laws that headlights had to be used by all vehicles, all the time.

[music man]

I started driving cars with their headlights on during daylight hours in the early 60's. Why you ask. Greyhound cut their head on collision rate by 50%. People couldn't see a bus during the day. I was driving a Mini at the time. Visibility worked then and visibility will work now. Let's call it a draw and find another subject to discuss.


Sounds like a good plan. :rawk:

[alanmcorcoran]

I'm don't know the percentage but I think sure but some (most? all GM?) newer cars in the U.S. have something called Daytime Running Lights or something like that. They're on my Suburban which is a 99 model. Basically, youe headlights are on all the time. I always suspected that once people get used to seeing headlights all the time, they won't notice them so much, and the accident rates will go right back up. The ultimate solution is Google's - cars that drive themselves. But how much fun will that be? I guess we can take consolation in the fact that might be longer before they have motorcycles that drive themselves.

[mrlmd1]

I have both the headlight modulator and flashing brakelight modulator with 2 extra LED lights 2x4" wired into the brake circuit on the back of my S50. There is no way someone can say they never saw me. I think you need to do everything possible to make yourself as visible as you can, Plus the Stebel air horn also is a little more insurance I put on.

[music man]

There is no way someone can say they never saw me.


Sure they can, just like I stated earlier, If they are not paying attention in the first place, you could be driving a day-glo green 18 Wheeler with 200 bright spotlights on the front, back and sides, they are still not going to see you.

The horn on the other hand, as long as you have time to react and push the horn button, and they have time to react to the sound and not cream you, would work great, you will jar them into paying attention when they weren't, which is the general point of the horn to begin with.

And I don't want any of you to get the wrong idea and think that I am discouraging anyone from wearing brighter clothes or doing everything they can to make themselves as noticeable as possible, because I am not, what I am doing however is being honest about the fact that it is probably not going to prevent some moron that is texting his girlfriend from plowing you down.

[Water Warrior 2]

I don't know if they still do, but Volvo cars used to have headlights that couldn't be switched off (like bikes now). That was because where they were made (Denmark, Sweden?) had laws that headlights had to be used by all vehicles, all the time.
I remember those early attempts at DLRs. Good idea but poorly done. The headlights would stay on during the starting process and then the alternator power surge would blow bulbs when the engine started. Now modern DLRs do not provide full power and bulb life is unaffected.

[dentheman]

I had a 98 Buick with ddl's. When it was running there were always some lights on in front. When it got dark the ddl's would automatically switch over to regular headlights and the taillights would come on, there was a small hole in the dash with the light sensor. The manual showed which fuse to pull to disable the system so I could use the normal headlight switch to control the lights when I wanted them off or on, like at a drive-in theater.

[Water Warrior 2]

I had a 98 Buick with ddl's. When it was running there were always some lights on in front. When it got dark the ddl's would automatically switch over to regular headlights and the taillights would come on, there was a small hole in the dash with the light sensor. The manual showed which fuse to pull to disable the system so I could use the normal headlight switch to control the lights when I wanted them off or on, like at a drive-in theater.
In some vehicles just applying the park brake would/will turn off the DRLs. Both my Rangers with a maual shift were like that. The auto trans no.
Trivia time. All vehicles sold in Canada and manufactured after Jan 1/ 1990 have DRLs. My 1986 Bronco had them in 88 or so. I made a cheap simple system that turned the headlights on when I pulled the tranny out of the park position. Less than $10 and never failed.