What the hell....???

[ArizonaKev]

Ok people - this crap isn't funny :

http://www.azfamily.com/weather/At-leas ... 14284.html (http://www.azfamily.com/weather/At-least-1-tornado-confirmed-in-Bellemont-area-west-of-Flagstaff-104414284.html)

I NEVER wanted to hear about another tornado touching down, not even one 150 miles away, after I left South Dakota. Now, we get a couple of them up by Flagstaff...? There aren't supposed to be tornados down here - could someone please make sure Mother Nature got that memo??? :lol:

AZ Kev

[Easy Rider]

Ok people - this crap isn't funny :


Not wanting to start a "political" arguement here but try to remember that the next time someone tries to tell you that Global Climate Change is a myth. :roll:

[Viirin]

could someone please make sure Mother Nature got that memo?

I'll have a word...

[ArizonaKev]

Easy - no worries, and I totally agree. For those who got all butt-hurt about the "global warming" concept and argued against it, I think they would be hard pressed to argue that there isn't some MAJOR climate change going on. Personally, I have been following that stuff, from the viewpoint of a scientist, for years, and there never was a doubt in my mind about it.

Now, it seems like every day there is something else in the news that makes me go "what the...?" Just like LA hitting 113 degrees last week - the hottest temperature ever there in recorded history. Yeah, that's not strange at all... Things are definitely changing. It's just too bad that, for stupid political and economic reasons, the truth has been besmirched for so long. I'm afraid that the time to have actually been able to do something about this has long since passed. But hey, what can we do, right? Like my Grandpa used to say, "make hay while the sun still shines" : )


AZ Kev

[BusyWeb]

I heard a news today about Europe and Russia's this winter weather.
They are going to have lowest temperature in 1000 years ??? (how do they know 1000 years old weather.. ha ha ha)
The problem is that there were not much warm oceanic water flow into from south which they have found.
Because of the summer warm temp and too much glacier melt down which prevented the ocean's water flow.
And then, this will cause the whole northern hemisphere temperature cooling... ???
Their gov. are already getting started preparation for this winter weather !!!

Anyway, I've never had experienced the rainy days in the early October here Los Angeles area for decades...
All this week, we have had rainy days...

[burkbuilds]

As Mark Twain pointed out many years ago, "If you don't like the weather we are having, hang around, it will change." :) Well guys, the question is not, "Is the climate changing?" Sure it is, it always has been, we go through hot and cold spells about every 15 years, just pull up weather channel record highs and lows and you can see the patterns for the last hundred or so years. The question should be, "Is this caused by humans and if so, can humans do anything to control the changes, and if so, what should they do?" Not sure about that one, I mean, the last ice age came without any human intervention, and so did the last tropical period when ferns were growing up around the Poles (North and South, not Poland). I'm all for reducing our damage to the environment, less pollution, more efficiency in every aspect of our lives and less waste, but it does seem like politicians are just trying to gain more control over the masses and make a load of money at the same time when it comes to promoting the "humans are causing climate change and we can save the world with carbon credits, crap." Just my opinion though, I'm not a scientist, just a moron that needs the governments of the world to look out for my best interest.

[Water Warrior 2]

Well said BB. I also think this is just a very long term cycle the Earth goes through periodically and we will just have to survive as best we can. The Human Race may accelerate the cycle somewhat but it would come no matter what. In a worst case scenario the planet will be unliveable but by then we will be out in the stars and living on other planets. Our descendants are in for a lot of adventure.

[3-D Video]

I NEVER wanted to hear about another tornado touching down, not even one 150 miles away, after I left South Dakota. Now, we get a couple of them up by Flagstaff...? There aren't supposed to be tornados down here
Awhile back, I was helping a friend drop a mast into his boat. We'd tied up to a much larger boat and lifted the mast using this other boats' halyard. This was in Richardson Bay, north of San Francisco between Sausalito and Tiburon. It was blowing pretty hard so we were tied to the lee side and didn't get much weather. Then the sky turned weird… like the underside of grey bubbles… something I'd never seen before, and then the wind dropped. Suddenly we were slammed by a strong wind coming off our beam. The wind had reversed direction.
Next day I read in the paper that some lady in Novato… not too many miles north of where we were… had her barn destroyed that day by a tornado. She'd moved from the midwest two years earlier and bought the farm because of her fear of tornados. We just don't get tornados in the S.F. Bay Area. Doesn't happen. Period.
So, here's my theory: Like Li'l Abners' Joe Btfsplk, bad weather will find you where ever you go. See, the problem isn't one of "global warming", it's all due to global mobility :)

[dhgeyer]

When I was a kid in school, we were all taught that indisputable scientific evidence had been collected which indicated we were going to go through another ice age in our lifetime. Maybe the global warming saved us from that. Or maybe the scientists suffer from serious hubris, and their models are fundamentally incomplete. Not all climate scientists agree on this issue, by the way. The media portray this as settled science, and muzzle those scientists who disagree. The media have their agenda.

I agree with BB. One thing that is constant is change. We will adapt, or we will die off. I have no idea what, if any, significant effect greenhouse gasses have on climate change. I'm pretty sure no one does, despite increasingly hysterical claims to the contrary. The human race has flourished, benefiting from an extended period of relative climatic stability. We have come to think of this stability as the norm. It is not.

Just my $.02.

[ArizonaKev]

I agree with everyone's general sentiments : the only constant in the universe, and our planet, is change. And if there is one thing the human race is designed for, it is adaptability.

However (and please note - this is NOT to start some flame war), as someone who has studied this issue for decades, I do think it is important to point out truths and untruths wherever they may be. For that reason, perhaps this will be an enlightening read for some :

"New study finds striking level of agreement among climate experts on anthropogenic climate change"
http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2010 ... te-change/ (http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2010/06/21/new-study-finds-striking-level-of-agreement-among-climate-experts-on-anthropogenic-climate-change/)

Now of course, the argument could be made that this research was funded by people with vested interests in green technologies, or government agencies wanting to benefit from carbon credits, or disciples of the Al Gore propaganda machine, and so on and so on. The fact is, the only facts that people believe are the ones they choose to, or ones that can be outright proven to them. I guess it just gets me when people say "even the scientists don't agree about it", when in reality, 98% of them do. And getting 98% of any group of people to agree on ANYTHING is quite rare indeed.

So is the climate changing? I think so. Do humans possibly have something to do with it? I think so. Are there people who completely disagree? I think so. And in the end, does it matter that we might disagree about it? I think not. We are all going to go on with our lives, regardless of what happens. For me, it is more about developing the consciousness that what we do, as a race, has greater impacts than just those we can see on a day to day basis. And if we don't start understanding that, collectively, we are going to run into some real trouble in the future - trouble that may have have nothing to do with this topic.

Now, I will close with my Forrest Gump signature - "That's all I have to say about that!"

[Water Warrior 2]

Back in the 80's Edmonton Alberta was hit by a tornado. The path of destruction was beyond belief. At the time Edmonton had no emergency response plan for a tornado but that soon changed. Citizens from all over the city helped out to comfort the homeless, feed them, cloth them and provide other needed items of life. Acts of heroism were common and just seemed the right thing to do. I toured the aftermath of destruction and can't say I want to see it again ever.

[dhgeyer]

For me, it is more about developing the consciousness that what we do, as a race, has greater impacts than just those we can see on a day to day basis. And if we don't start understanding that, collectively, we are going to run into some real trouble in the future - trouble that may have have nothing to do with this topic.


I'm still not convinced that anyone knows whether or not greenhouse gasses have caused or are causing climate change. I'm not sure I agree with the 98% agreement among climate scientists figure either. That could be hard to measure, since, in the current scientific world, if one does not go along with certain establishment dogmas, one can lose credit, jobs, funding, tenure, and etc. Where did that figure come from anyway? Did someone do an unbiased survey?

However, I do agree with the above quoted statement. We in North America should be changing our lifestyle. We consume too much, and it's too much a part of our sense of self worth.

There is only so much we can do, as individuals, to help curb pollution (short of all moving back to caves and eating grass). I think we at our house are doing what we reasonably can. We don't have a huge house. We don't go crazy with heat in the Winter or AC in the Summer. The only cars we drive are Toyota Priuses. Not only does the Prius use very little fuel, it is also one of few cars designated "Partial Zero Emission Vehicles" by the EPA. One of my motorcycles, the one I ride the most, has a catalytic converter and a closed loop EFI system, and produces about as little pollution as a modern car. That's one of the many reasons I bought it. Most motorcycles are environmentally filthy compared to modern cars. We recycle everything we can.

So, despite my agnosticism with respect to the new religion of the right (or left) reverend Gore, we are doing what we can. Have you altered your lifestyle as much as we have for this reason? If not, don't preach.

[mrlmd1]

Just for the hell of it, I have to throw this out for consideration - I was at a lecture with a very well respected astronomer and he offered up this fact:
If the earth were represented by a sphere the size of a basketball, our atmosphere would be the thickness of a layer of Saran Wrap around it.
Sort of puts it into a new perspective.

[ArizonaKev]

You make some good points dh, and it sounds like you are definitely doing a lot as far as altering your lifestyle is concerned.

As far as the 'preaching' comment goes, not really sure that what I was doing was preaching. But, if so, even you agreed with the one statement I made. And in reality, that's the only one I wanted to make. So to that, I say

HALLELUJAH BROTHER! Can I get an amen from the congregation?!?!? SHAZAAMMMM!!!

:crackup

AZ Kev

[Water Warrior 2]

That gives a whole new meaning to Saran Wrap. Oh yeah, it can also be used as an emergency condom when things are hot an heavy. :whistle:

[dentheman]

Speaking of tornados, let me tell you a little story.

In May of 2008 I decided to ride my bicycle around a 5 mile loop just to get out and get a little exercise. Thunderstorms were forecast and I could see them in the distance, but I thought I could beat them. So, off I went.

At about the 4 mile mark it began to rain, then hail started pinging off my bike and clacking off my helmet. I was about 1/8 mile from an intersection when I stopped. There was a funnel cloud ahead and to my left. As I watched, it dropped into a tornado and went right through the intersection, just missing a liquor store. It continued through a plowed field and headed toward the psychiatric prison where I used to work, but dissipated before it hit.

While all this was going on I was on my phone to my daughter, she went to the back yard and got a couple cell photos of the tornado, then went to take shelter in the bathroom with our dog. I didn't think to get any pictures from my phone.

My daughter was scared to death I wouldn't be coming back home, and I promised to never go out in stormy weather again.

As to global warming, I agree with burkbuilds. ---By the way, this was my second close call with a tornado. The first was May 11, 1970, when two tornados hit Lubbock, killing 26 and injuring 1500.