Is there a "sweet spot" when downshifting?

[chandlerbingfl]

I've got a 2009 GZ'r, ~3800 miles, owned it for about 5 months now. Had some minor issues but all in all am quite happy w/ the bike itself. I've noticed that sometimes downshifting it can be quite "clunky" and at other times not so much. For the most part I usually wait till it's barely moving (say approaching a light) before downshifting. As I said sometimes it's clunky other times not... Is this normal? Does it help if one blips the throttle in order to have the gears sync up prior to downshifting. Open to your input, appreciated in advance.

chandlerbingfl

[blaine]

I think you will find your downshifts less "clunky" if you downshift at a little higher speed letting the gears slow the bike as you shift.Blipping the throttle can help if done properly with the clutch,but I found it unnecessary with the G.Z.
:rawk: :2tup:

[mole2]

I found all the downshifts to be ok expcept downshifting into first. It always clunked into first...it's how I knew for sure it was first. lol


:)

[Viirin]

My bike's the same as mole2's - i only get the clunk noise when i shift into 1st but it lets me know i'm there

Like blaine said - shift down at a higher speed and use the lower gears as a sort of brake - only i don't personally let the clutch out straight away as i find it a bit rough - maybe over about 1 and a half seconds - i think it gives the engine a chance to "catch up" to the higher revs needed at a lower gear - but you don't want to do it any slower than that or else you'll be coasting which has problems of it's own

Is the clunkieness always happening when you shift down or only when you shift more than once eg from 4th - 2nd without letting the clutch out in between? on my bike this is far more clunky than single shifts

Vii

[blaine]

Is the clunkieness always happening when you shift down or only when you shift more than once eg from 4th - 2nd without letting the clutch out in between? on my bike this is far more clunky than single shifts

Vii

If you double downshift like you describe you risk doing damage to your transmission,thus the extra noise & clunks.The transmission was designed to be downshifted one gear at a time.
:2tup: :rawk:

[Sarris]

only i don't personally let the clutch out straight away as i find it a bit rough - maybe over about 1 and a half seconds - i think it gives the engine a chance to "catch up" to the higher revs needed at a lower gear
That's why you "blip" the throttle while down shifting as you release the clutch.

Also, I don't downshift to first until I'm at a very low speed roll or at a full stop.

:)

[Easy Rider]

For the most part I usually wait till it's barely moving (say approaching a light) before downshifting. As I said sometimes it's clunky other times not... Is this normal?

Good answers so far.

Yes it's "normal" if you insist on shifting that way BUT that's really not good, mechanically or for safety.

It is important that the gear you are in roughly matches the speed you are going.
Starting in 5th, close the throttle. When the engine speed is nearing idle, it's time for 4th; if this is a casual stop, engage the clutch and as the engine slows again, go to 3rd.

The transition from 4-3-2 will probably be fairly quick and there is no real need to engage the clutch in between. The key is don't wait until the very end to make all 4 shifts. Only the last one, 2-1 needs to be at walking speed.

I think that "blipping the throttle" in normal riding is really useful ONLY because it makes you concentrate more on the mechanics of the shift. It is necessary only for "power shifts" at high RPMs......which is kind of a joke with a GZ (and can be dangerous too if your technique is off a bit).

[Water Warrior 2]

Is the bike ready for an oil change ?? Clunky shifting can be a sign that you may need an oil change. Oil does break down due to the shear forces of the gears constantly spinning. Motorcycle specific oils are made to withstand the shear forces longer than cage oils.
Just an additional thought. Is the idle set a little too low ?? The internal parts may not be spinning quite fast enough to be happy.

[Easy Rider]

Just an additional thought. Is the idle set a little too low ?? The internal parts may not be spinning quite fast enough to be happy.

Can't believe I missed that; thank you.

Having the idle speed WAY too high can be a problem too......as can not closing the throttle all the way.

There is, apparently, somewhat of a "sweet spot" for the idle speed.

[Water Warrior 2]

[quote="Water Warrior":2gn20m87]Just an additional thought. Is the idle set a little too low ?? The internal parts may not be spinning quite fast enough to be happy.

Can't believe I missed that; thank you.

Having the idle speed WAY too high can be a problem too......as can not closing the throttle all the way.

There is, apparently, somewhat of a "sweet spot" for the idle speed.[/quote:2gn20m87]
Easy you have a slight case of Old Guy Syndrome............ :lol: And we all know we sometimes look for the hard stuff instead of just the easy fixes.

[BusyWeb]

Is the bike ready for an oil change ?? Clunky shifting can be a sign that you may need an oil change. Oil does break down due to the shear forces of the gears constantly spinning. Motorcycle specific oils are made to withstand the shear forces longer than cage oils.
Just an additional thought. Is the idle set a little too low ?? The internal parts may not be spinning quite fast enough to be happy.

I had same feeling...
The bike seems still in the break-in period, IMHO..
Just guessing, previous owner might not had treated well enough on the break-in maintenances.
Try to change with good quality oil first of all, and same problems after then >> other issue ha ha ha
Oil change won't hurt. :roll:

[Easy Rider]

Easy you have a slight case of Old Guy Syndrome............ :lol:

Yep. You DO have a knack for pointing out the obvious !!! :tongue: :crackup

[chandlerbingfl]

Whoa - thanks for all the replies and input! I will monitor the process as I know sometimes it is clunky then other times it is not so much. I've tried several different means of downshifting and for the most part I usually start 4-3-2-1 just as I roll up to a light or stop. I don't let the clutch out in between. I noticed that blipping the throttle sometimes make a difference other times not. As for the oil it was just changed and I've got ~800 niles on current change and I know the level is closer to full then middle or below.

I'll keep trying different things. It seems as I'm not the only one that has experienced this so at least I feel im in the norm so to say....

Again thanks - great board and always find something new to read or learn about!

chandlerbingfl

[blaine]

I've tried several different means of downshifting and for the most part I usually start 4-3-2-1 just as I roll up to a light or stop. I don't let the clutch out in between.

There is most of your problem.You need to let the clutch out between each downshift,so all gears get mated to the same speed.Try letting the clutch out between each shift and I think you will eliminate a lot of your noise.Good luck.

:rawk: :2tup:

[Water Warrior 2]

I've tried several different means of downshifting and for the most part I usually start 4-3-2-1 just as I roll up to a light or stop. I don't let the clutch out in between.

There is most of your problem.You need to let the clutch out between each downshift,so all gears get mated to the same speed.Try letting the clutch out between each shift and I think you will eliminate a lot of your noise.Good luck.

:rawk: :2tup:
Actually all the gears are always lined up. We have constant mesh transmissions and the shifter drum in the tranny is used to determine which pair of gears will go to work when you shift. A little clunk going into first is not uncommon in some bikes, not just GZs. The Honda Rebel has a reputation for such a balky transmission it will not shift down to 1st without coming to a stop and shutting off the engine. Lynda had one in rider training and was ready to set fire to it.
You are riding a 3rd world motorcycle not a mega dollar performance bike so a little clunk and thunk now and again is the norm. Ride and enjoy the bike.

[blaine]

My main concern was that he said that he shifts down all gears without letting out the clutch in between each gear.With that practice the downshifts will be noisier than need be.Also if he happens to let the clutch out abruptly after dropping two or three gears without slowing down he will be in a world of hurt.

:) :rawk:

[Water Warrior 2]

W.W my main concern was that he said that he shifts down all gears without letting out the clutch in between each gear.With that practice the downshifts will be noisier than need be.Also if he happens to let the clutch out abruptly after dropping two or three gears without slowing down he will be in a world of hurt.

:) :rawk:
Yup, that makes sense. I will ocassionally do that myself while slowing but one needs to be in tune with road speed and engine RPM in any given gear.
In rider training we were taught(emergency braking)to keep shifting down quickly to match our diminishing speed. So one day I got to do some real practice when a forest rat leaped up onto the highway. Both levers pulled back, rear brake pressed, shifting down rapidly and air horn activated. Deer took a powder and I continued on. Yeah sure, I was in 1st gear at probably 40 MPH and let the clutch out. 6th to 1st in a flash. Gotta love Japanese engineering.

[Easy Rider]

I've tried several different means of downshifting and for the most part I usually start 4-3-2-1 just as I roll up to a light or stop.

Let's see if I can say it (again) in a little different way.
You need to KEEP trying other methods because that is BAD technique.......and makes for noisy shifts and sometimes HARD shifts too.

You need to start downshifting earlier and then have more time between gears.
You need to match the gear to the speed you are going at the moment......even if you don't engage the clutch.......so you CAN engage the clutch at any moment that you need to.

Also engaging the clutch in each gear gives you a little "engine braking" and is just better overall technique. That should be your eventual goal; go down the same way you went up, one gear at a time.

[Water Warrior 2]

Right on Easy. Always be in the best gear for any riding situation. Also the engine breaking helps a new rider to learn the ranges of each gear early on in their riding career.