Can't get my bike started.

[db274302]

My GZ has been sitting for about a month. Now I can not get it to turn over. I'm new to riding and was wondering if anyone had any ideas on my problem.

Thanks.

[dentheman]

Do you mean the STARTER won't turn over? If that is the case, the obvious place to look is at the battery. Motorcycle batteries are small and after sitting for a month without being charged it may have discharged enough to not work the starter. Try recharging it.

[db274302]

Thanks I will give that a try.

[dentheman]

From what I have read on this forum, a battery tender is a 'must have' item for a motorcycle. I don't have a battery tender (or a motorcycle yet) but have been looking into the things I will need when I get my bike. Do a search of 'battery tender' and you will find a nice one with that brand name, I am also looking at the Schumacher brand of 6-12 volt battery charger/maintainer. They are fairly cheap on Amazon.com, and there are some really cheap brands on-line that may or may not be any good.

[Easy Rider]

From what I have read on this forum, a battery tender is a 'must have' item for a motorcycle.

A low capacity charger is a must have. A tender is handy for long periods of storage but connecting a small charger every couple of weeks is just as good. The objective is to keep the battery fully charged.

For daily use, a tender can actually be worse......in practice......than just letting the bike take care of itself.

[Easy Rider]

Do you mean the STARTER won't turn over?

No offense intended but once again, it would appear that the person asking the question only understood PART of the answer.

The above question is VERY important. If the starter runs but the engine won't "fire", then that likely is a whole different situation.

[db274302]

Thanks again for the replies,
When I try to start the engine the starter is strong at first but gradually drops off as I try. The engine slightly fires at first but quickly stops as the attempt continues. Prior to this the bike was running great. Unfortunately I've had little time to ride.

Thanks

[dentheman]

Fuel problem?

Be sure battery is charged.

Be sure there is fuel in the tank.

Fuel selector to PRI.

Choke on.

If it starts, move selector off PRI, reduce choke as it warms up.

If it does not start, a carb cleaning may be in order or spark plug may be fouled.

Any other suggestions?

[alanmcorcoran]

Carb funk. It will start eventually, but maybe not before you run the battery down. You can get a charger for cheap that's useful to have anyway in the event you run the battery down. Not sure you really need to leave the petcock on prime or put it in prime for more than a few seconds. What's happened is the gas or additives or something have had a chance to clog up your jets/or some other part of the carb and the cure is to ride a couple of gallons of gas through the carb. All of us have had this problem to some extent. Best cure is to ride regularly, but outside of CA/FL not always possible. Search the threads - this is one of the top five topics on here. If you are gonna put it away for the winter there is a bunch of things you ought to do that are also on here in other threads.

[blaine]

Thanks again for the replies,
When I try to start the engine the starter is strong at first but gradually drops off as I try. The engine slightly fires at first but quickly stops as the attempt continues. Prior to this the bike was running great. Unfortunately I've had little time to ride.

Thanks

Sounds like your battery needs a good charging.You should charge it on a 2 amp charger.If you are going to be riding very little you should invest in a "battery tender" type charger.You should also keep a good quality fuel treatment in the tank.

[ArizonaKev]

This falls more in the line of "preventative maintenance", but to avoid such problems in the future, as well as all the other suggestions, an easy one is to just go out, start the bike, and let it run for a little while once a week or so any time it sits. That will help keep the battery charged, the fuel lines cleaned out, and all the fun stuff. This same type of advice is often given for cars that sit for extended periods of time.

Good luck - I'm sure that, by following all the great advice on here, you will get that thing started!


AZ Kev

[mrlmd1]

I don't agree with the above advice.
If you just start the bike and let it run at idle it will not charge the battery and the net effect will be to deplete the battery rather than recharging it, especially if you do this once a week or so. It takes more current/amp hrs. out of the battery than will be replaced at idle, even if it idles all day. The bike needs to rev at ~2500-3000rpm or more to get any significant current out of it's charging system. It's different if you go for a ride, but sitting at idle for "a while" does it no good and very little oil is circulating through it at that time also. Extended idling is not a good idea. Better to put some Seafoam or Berryman's in the gas tank at the recommended dosage to keep the carbs clean, and/or Stabil or something similar for extended periods of inactivity, and get a small 2 amp battery charger and use it once a month to keep the battery topped up.
Another reminder, again, if you want to jump the battery and start the bike from another 12V vehicle, like a car, DO NOT have the car engine running when you do this or the car's alternator output will fry all the electronics on the bike.

[Easy Rider]

I don't agree with the above advice.
If you just start the bike and let it run at idle it will not charge the battery and the net effect will be to deplete the battery rather than recharging it,

Neither do I......but there is a lot of advice "above" and some of it is good. :biggrin:

That part, in addition to probably not charging the battery, also tends to accumulate moisture in the muffler and crankcase unless the engine is allowed to get fully warmed up (HOT).

[Easy Rider]

Thanks again for the replies,
When I try to start the engine the starter is strong at first but gradually drops off as I try.

Sounds to me like possibly three things are wrong here:

1) Choke technique. What are you doing with the choke ??

2) Battery sounds like it's about done for. Charging might get it going again......until it sits unused for a week again.

3) When you get it running again, I recommend a dose of carb cleaner; I like Berrymans B12 Chemtool.

This should also be treated as a reminder to check the air filter and plug.......and change both if they haven't been lately.

[ArizonaKev]

...and I stand, humbly corrected. Yes mrlmd1, the advice as given was not good. Perhaps, what I meant to say, and should have actually written, was something to the effect of "start the bike up and take it for a short ride to get all the 'juices' flowing [paraphrasing here, meaning brake fluid, oil, etc] to keep everything lubed up, ie seals and such, and keep the battery charged".

I will be more careful to be more concise and specific in future posts.


PS - and by "short", to address Easy's concerns about not getting hot enough to get rid of the moisture in the exhaust system, I will strike that modifier from my earlier statement, and say "A ride long enough to heat the motor up to a normal warm idle, but not so far as to cross any international date lines".

PSS - Unless of course, you live within 5 miles of said date lines, and in that case, you will necessarily have to cross them.

[alantf]

I posted this once before - a coupla years back- but it still holds good.
It's an excerpt from MOTORCYCLE HANDBOOK by Kevin Maher & Ben Greisler.

From the "winter storage" section. The capitals are theirs.

Once you have put it in storage, LEAVE IT ALONE. You can drool on it (as long as you dry it afterwards). You can rub body parts against it (as long as you don't scratch it or remove too much wax). You can get in your leathers, sit on it and go "Vroom ...Vroom" while spitting on yourself. But don't start it just to listen or to "warm the motor". Idling it won't warm the motor very much, probably will not charge the battery, definitely won't do anything for the drivetrain and will most likely leave some condensation in the exhaust to rust your precious pipes and mufflers. LEAVE IT ALONE UNTIL IT IS PROPERLY REMOVED FROM STORAGE.

[Water Warrior 2]

Totally correct Alantf. I might roll it around a bit to keep the tires from a possible flat spot but just letting the bike sleep is a good thing.

[ArizonaKev]

I stand corrected all, and learned something new through all this. I guess I was the victim of bad information when I was younger. And given the fact that I live in Phoenix, Arizona, where riding season is every season, I admittedly don't know much about "storing" a bike. We can pretty much get on and ride whenever we please. But I forget that in most other areas, when winter sets in, there is no real 'taking it for a spin'. My apologies for my ignorance and bad advice. :blush:

I guess I will need to do more fact checking before posting stuff in here. And that's probably the best idea anyway - sure wouldn't want to give anyone bad advice and have them get bad results from it.

AZ Kev

[Water Warrior 2]

I stand corrected all, and learned something new through all this. I guess I was the victim of bad information when I was younger. And given the fact that I live in Phoenix, Arizona, where riding season is every season, I admittedly don't know much about "storing" a bike. We can pretty much get on and ride whenever we please. But I forget that in most other areas, when winter sets in, there is no real 'taking it for a spin'. My apologies for my ignorance and bad advice. :blush:

I guess I will need to do more fact checking before posting stuff in here. And that's probably the best idea anyway - sure wouldn't want to give anyone bad advice and have them get bad results from it.

AZ Kev
Don't worry about bad info on occasion, we all do it. Then some one corrects us and all is well. Life is one long learning curve filled with pot holes and speed bumps.

[bonehead]

Well it's been almost 2 weeks, did he get the bike started?

[db274302]

Ok.
Again, thank you to all that have replied to my issue. I've been working on the bike today.
1. Got new battery
2. got new spark plug
3. Drained carburetor, then primed to make sure fuel was entering the engine. (every thing worked)
4. Checked ignition system by firing the spark plug to endure it was firing correctly. (every thing worked)

Then I let it sit with the fuel set to prime and eventually got the engine to turn over but it immediately stopped.
I've let it sit for about ten minutes at a time and each time can get it to turn over and start for about 5 seconds then it just stops.

Thanks again.

[dentheman]

Fuel is not flowing fast enough to the carburetor bowl to keep it full while the engine is running, but it does fill back up when the engine is stopped. A carb cleaning is in order and a check of the float adjustment. However, you never did state you ran some carb cleaner through with the fuel or squirted some directly into the carb; that alone might be enough to fix it without carb disassembly.

[db274302]

Ya know I have yet to try either of those ideas

thanks

[Sarris]

Are you using the choke? GZ's are cold blooded and need the choke when cold even in warm climates.

The GZ's idle speed is 1200 to 1500 rpm. Most people have theirs set too low and that will result in stalling especially when cold as well as oil starvation at an idle.

Have you checked the vacuum hose connected to the back of the petcock? That hose allows gas to flow. It's essentially a vacuum operated shutoff. It must be in place and free of cracks and/or leaks or else the carb bowl will empty out after you prime it and it will stop running. This one is a must!!

Add some in tank carb cleaner (Berrymans or Seafoam). If you can get her to run (even having to rev it to keep it going) take it out and run the crap out of her keeping the revs high to move a lot of treated gas through the carb.

If none of the above works, I suggest you take it to a mechanic or the local stealer.

:)

[db274302]

Alright. So does anyone have any radical ideas for to get this bike started at least once? I am using the choke, and like I had mentioned earlier this is the first time the bike sat for about four weeks and this is the first time I've had any problems with the bike. At this point I can get the engine to fire and turn over. I can't get it to stay running. The thing just refuses to cooperate. A friend of mine is suggesting spraying some type of starter fluid onto the spark plug then giving it a go.

Thanks.

[Easy Rider]

A friend of mine is suggesting spraying some type of starter fluid onto the spark plug then giving it a go.

That person is NOT a "friend". :roll:

Starting fluid is not intended to be put directly into the open cylinder. :skull:

It is intended to be put, a small spray at a time, into the air cleaner housing......with the filter in place.
Further, it's main use if when the engine is not firing at all; you are already past that point.

During this testing, is there a stock air filter in place ??
And exactly HOW are you using the choke ??
We have had an owner or three show up here who were using the choke BACKWARDS.

[db274302]

Also, as far as adding SeaFoam or another carb cleaner to the bike. Do I just add it to the gas tank then bleed the carb with the carb drain screw? Or do I have to get the thing running for the carb cleaner to be completely effective?

Thanks

[db274302]

As of now I have no idea if the stock air filter is in the bike or not. I bought the bike used about a year ago from a dealer. As for the choke, I know I'm using it correctly. I've gone over the owners manual and have been using the choke the correct way from the beginning.

Thanks

[blaine]

Also, as far as adding SeaFoam or another carb cleaner to the bike. Do I just add it to the gas tank then bleed the carb with the carb drain screw? Or do I have to get the thing running for the carb cleaner to be completely effective?

Thanks

For the cleaner to be completely effective and clean the jets and internal parts you need to get the bike running.
But adding cleaner and draining the float bowel is the first step.
:2tup:

[Easy Rider]

Also, as far as adding SeaFoam or another carb cleaner to the bike. Do I just add it to the gas tank then bleed the carb with the carb drain screw? Or do I have to get the thing running for the carb cleaner to be completely effective?

Yes and yes; do both if possible. Once in there, just sitting overnight might help.

Maybe you should LOOK at the air filter. If it is plugged up it could be part of the problem.

Also the choke cable could be loose where it attaches to the carb and thus not really doing anything when you move the lever. Lastly, as the weather gets colder you will need MORE choke to get it going and it will need more warm up time before you mess with the throttle.

[db274302]

Okay.
I've pretty much gone over and have done everything that has been suggested and it's so close to starting up. The bike will turn over and fire up for about 2-3 seconds then just dies down. I'm at the end of my technical knowledge and would like to figure this out myself. That's the main reason I bought my gz. So I could learn about riding and motorcycle maintenance from the ground up. So if anyone has any other ideas it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for all the help!!!!!!!

[blaine]

You should take the plug out again and make sure it is clean,dry & gapped properly.All the starting & stalling may have the plug wet.While you have the plug out,spin the engine over a few times to make sure it is not flooded.
:) :cool:

[Easy Rider]

Okay.
I've pretty much gone over and have done everything that has been suggested

What does "pretty much" mean ??
What has been suggested that you have NOT done ??
What EXACTLY are you doing with the choke and throttle ??

We've made a lot of suggestions but your feed back is a little.......sketchy. :cool:

[alanmcorcoran]

You may just need to let it run for a bit. Will it run without touching the throttle? When I've let mine sit too long, the carb gets cranky and sometimes I have to let it just run with the choke on and no throttle for 5 or ten minutes and then gingerly try to advance the throttle. Once it took me about thirty minutes of effing with it to get started and keep it started, but then once I ran a tankful of gas through it, it was back to normal. I'm assuming that some sort of gas plaque builds up on the carb jets and the only cure is blowing it out with (a lot more) fresh gas.

[db274302]

This is what I have done so far:

1. Got new battery
2. got new spark plug
3. Drained carburetor, then primed to make sure fuel was entering the engine. (every thing worked)
4. Checked ignition system by firing the spark plug to ensure it was firing correctly. (every thing worked)
5. Drained gas tank through carb drain screw
6. refilled tank with a gas/Sea Foam mixture
7. drained some of the mixture through the carb drain screw

I've been turning the fuel onto prime and have been getting it to start for about 2-3 seconds then it cuts out. I haven't been pushing it because I don't want to ruin this new battery.

Thanks again!!

Thanks again.

[blaine]

This is what I have done so far:
I haven't been pushing it because I don't want to ruin this new battery.

Thanks again!!

Thanks again.

Push starting your bike will not do any damage to the battery.That been said,a push start may be the little extra you need.
:rawk: :)

[Sarris]

Have you checked the vacuum hose connected to the back of the petcock? That hose allows gas to flow. It's essentially a vacuum operated shutoff. It must be in place and free of cracks and/or leaks or else the carb bowl will empty out after you prime it and it will stop running. This one is a must!!
Didn't see this one on your list.

;)

[Easy Rider]

It must be in place and free of cracks and/or leaks or else the carb bowl will empty out after you prime it and it will stop running.
Didn't see this one on your list.


That won't happen if you leave the fuel selector lever on PRIme. :)

He still hasn't answered what he is doing with the choke and throttle........so I quit.

[db274302]

I think I mentioned earlier that I have the choke lever moved completely towards me and I am not touching the throttle until it starts up in order to try to keep it going.

Thanks

[Water Warrior 2]

What are the results if you try stating the bike with the fuel petcock in the "ON" position ?

[db274302]

It's pretty much the same result as when the fuel is in the prime position. I seem to get stronger starts when it's in the prime position put it has turned over and started shortly in the on position.

[b1pig]

radical?

sure. take off the left side cover. cup your hand over the airfilter/intake. crank engine. that'll draw the fuel in. do it too long, it'll seriously flood the carb, though. had to do that to Lori's bike before i pulled and thoroughly cleaned the carb with carb cleaner.

not hard to do, but there are some small parts involved and some soft screws and such.

[Easy Rider]

I think I mentioned earlier that I have the choke lever moved completely towards me and I am not touching the throttle until it starts up in order to try to keep it going.


If you did, I missed it. Sorry.

Two things to try:
1) RESIST the temptation to "touch the throttle to try and keep it going". It might work better with NO throttle at all right at first.
2) Reduce the choke to about 3/4......if not on the first attempt, then after it dies once.

I am still suspicious that the choke might not really be working when you move the lever.
Has it been sounding like it's trying to run really fast when it fires for those few seconds.......or does it sound weak, like it's barely running ??

[db274302]

OK!!!!
I wasn't going to touch the bike today due to pure frustration, but I did. I also took the advice of covering the air intake while I was trying to start it up and bingo the engine turned over and fired up. At this point I assume that covering the air intake forced more fuel into the engine which in turn got the engine going. So I was able to take the bike out for about a ten minute ride. I had to keep revving the engine in order to keep it going. The moment I let of the gas the engine stalls. So maybe this does have something to do with the carb vacuum hose. The only problem is I'm having a hard time identifying which hose is the vacuum hose.

So again I need to thank everyone who has been helping me with this issue. I owe you guys big time!

If anyone has anymore ideas about the engine stalling with out me giving it throttle that would be awesome.

Thanks!!

[blaine]

The vacuum hose goes directly on to the back of the petcock down to the carb.If this hose is leaking or disconnected your bike will not idle.Also you fuel would only run in prime, as it needs vacuum to work on Run or Reserve.I think your choke is not operating at the carb end even though the cable is moving.When you blocked air to get the bike to start you effectively "choked" the bike.
:2tup: :cool:

[Easy Rider]

At this point I assume that covering the air intake forced more fuel into the engine which in turn got the engine going.

If anyone has anymore ideas about the engine stalling with out me giving it throttle that would be awesome.



Your engine is running WAY lean and/or the choke (which really is an enricher) is not working.

What you did by blocking the intake was make a manual, old fashioned CHOKE.

I think carb cleaner has been recommended before and I repeat that advice again now with EMPHASIS. Since you have figured out how to keep it running for a bit, the cleaner should be more effective.
[edit] I see that you have Seafoam in with the gas. How MUCH Seafoam did you use ??

I also repeat the suggestion that you should inspect the BOTTOM end of the choke cable to be sure it is actually connected and moving something at the carb.

It is also possible that your idle stop screw is set too low but certainly isn't the only problem.
You also need to see if you have a stock air filter or not.

[db274302]

So I checked the vacuum hose and and the other hoses running from the carb and all look to be in good condition. I could not find any leaks or cracks in any of the hoses. I then unscrewed the choke cable from the carb and was able to see the little pin/plunger assembly moving back and forth as I moved the choke switch back and forth. It seems to be working just fine.

As for the Sea Foam, at first I added about 2FL OZ into the empty tank and let it pass through the carb and out the carb drain tube.
Then I added 2 gallons of gas mixed with 2 Fl OZ of sea foam into the tank and ran a small amount of the mixture through the carb and out the tube.
After my air intake experiment which finally got the engine going. I filled up the rest of the tank with another 2 Fl Oz mixed in.

The air filter that is in the bike right now is very clean, it was one of the first things I checked. As far as it being a stock air filter, I have no idea.

As of now the engine is still firing up every time I try, fuel is set to "on" and the choke is in the "on" position (all the way towards me). It will fire up and I can keep it going if a keep revving the engine. Once I let up on the throttle it refuses to idle and will stall.

Thanks for all the advice!!!

[bonehead]

Where is the idle adj screw during all of this? Try getting it started and hold the throttle where it is running and adj the idle screw to keep the engine going. I dont know, but sounds like you have the idle screw adjusted off too far.

Also I did not see year or milage for this bike. Can you give us that please.

[db274302]

The bike is a 2007 and has 2400 miles of it. Throughout this entire experience I have been playing with idle screw and it really hasn't made a difference. At this point the screw is turned pretty high.

Thanks

[Easy Rider]

The bike is a 2007 and has 2400 miles of it. Throughout this entire experience I have been playing with idle screw and it really hasn't made a difference. At this point the screw is turned pretty high.

It's been a valiant effort but, at this point, if you have had a couple of runs with the Seafoam in the gas and there hasn't been any noticeable improvement........I'd say it's time for a trip to the shop. It doesn't appear that "we" are making any headway.

[db274302]

That is what i was afraid of.

Thanks.

[b1pig]

the carb may need to come off. its not super-complicated. you might be able to get by removing the bowl, plunger diaghram (on the side) and the slide assy... and then using carb cleaner to hose out EVERY orrifice of the carb. i did it to Lori's. as stated, i probably should drill the cap and adjust the mixture. i think thats what i'm gonna do next.

Lori's is a '07 with 1400 miles on it.... so... i feel your frustration. the temperment is from lack of use on our part.

[db274302]

Well,
I actually just got it going really well and took it out for a short ride. It really seems to be getting better by the day. The engine is starting and does seem to want to idle. If the problem persists I may try a carb cleaning.

Thanks to everyone that has posted about my problem, I'VE LEARNED A LOT.

[Sarris]

Add some in tank carb cleaner (Berrymans or Seafoam). If you can get her to run (even having to rev it to keep it going) take it out and run the crap out of her keeping the revs high to move a lot of treated gas through the carb.

If none of the above works, I suggest you take it to a mechanic or the local stealer. :)
See above. :neener:

[Easy Rider]

If the problem persists I may try a carb cleaning.


Others will, no doubt, find this boring and repetetive but maybe you will find it useful.

You are apparently seeing the benefit of the cleaning effect of the Seafoam.
If you feel that it is not quite back to normal by the time you have used up most of that tank of gas, you might want to consider a shot of a more "heavy duty" cleaner, like Berryman's B12 or Gumout before you tackle (or pay for) a manual cleaning.

Those two have different chemicals than the Seafoam and sometimes "get" what the Seafoam won't.......sometimes.

[alanmcorcoran]

From Sept 24th post "and the cure is to ride a couple of gallons of gas through the carb."

I maybe should have said, "the cure is to ride a couple of TANKS thought the carb." I know a lot of folks on here like the Berryman's and the seafoam, etc. but i found that, if I can just get it going (and keep it going), it often just need to run regular old gas through it to fix it up. I found that 150 miles of riding will generally put it right (assuming that carb gum from lack of use is your problem.) As you have learned, just to get it going and keep it from stalling is the hard part, and often puts a lot of stress on the battery from excessive attempts to start it. The last time I had this it took me the better part of a half hour or more just to get it so it would run (very roughly) without touching the throttle. I then had to get creative with the throttle and the clutch to get it to go twenty feet down the road. But two and a half hours later - it was running perfectly. I didn't do anything more than ride it. No seafoam (I have it in the garage), no berryman's, no nothing, except an eventual refill of the tank. Psychologically, I did ride it WTFO, and it seemed like that helped (see Sarris's "ride the crap out of it" comment) but I think the main thing is to get gas running through it and the more the merrier.

[bonehead]

Do you know if the valves have been adjusted. They should have been checked at the 600 mi service. I know that when I needed to adjust mine that it would run but would'nt idle for crap.
My 2 cents-good luck.

[b1pig]

^ditto^ on the valve adjustment. even at 1400 miles, Lori's needed it badly.