Toy hauler

[alanmcorcoran]

Underway

[alanmcorcoran]

100 plus miles over the grapevine and still upright.

[Water Warrior 2]

Looking good Alan. ...........................Have you tried backing up yet ? :lol:

[alanmcorcoran]

A little. Couple things learnt so far:
1) gas mileage not so good.
2) put a lot of air in your rear tire
3) you won't make good time up hill
4) probably should have done a little more prep on the truck - tranny fluid, heavier weight oil, coolant check, possibly upgrade rear shocks.

I've trailer'd 300 or so miles today and so far so good. Flatter the road the better. Lots of tradeoffs to weigh vs going on the mc alone. I think this makes sense for two up exploring but I think I prefer the bike alone for solo adventures. Busy's setup might be a good compromise in between.

[bonehead]

Did you use an equalizer hitch? If not, it really helps with the sagging rear end.

[mrlmd1]

What is the hitch weight on that thing? Even with your bike in the rear of the trailer, there is a lot of weight on your rear end, the front end of the Suburban is pointing up to the sky - not good for steering either. Bonehead is right, if you are going to tow something that heavy you either need a weight-distributing hitch or much beefier rear springs and shocks.

[alantf]

One thing I found, years ago, when I towed my caravan, was to get as much of the weight as possible over the trailer axle. If you had the same weight distributed front and rear, the trailer would still be in balance, but it would set up a "pendulum" effect, causing the hitch to rise & fall, and was thus much more unstable.

[mrlmd1]

That trailer's got a tandem double axle on it and 800lbs in the back for his bike, but the hitch weight is still to high for his truck.
There should not be much pendulum effect if the weight is centered over the axle, unlike having the same weight distributed at both ends. One has to pay attention to the trailer hitch weight itself to keep the whole thing stable.

[bonehead]

Also forgot to mention the fact that if you do use an equalizer hitch it usually has an anti sway bar that helps a great deal. Cost for the whole system is around 500.00.
From experience, it is the only way to pull a bumper pull travel trailer, and feel comfortable.

[Water Warrior 2]

Just another steep learning curve for you Alan. Your observations will keep you safe and you can make some adjustments during the trip. A load leveler hitch or equalizer hitch will keep the entire rig level and more driveable. An antisway bar will keep the tail from wagging the dog.

[BusyWeb]

It looks good for me, even though I don't have any experiences with trailings.
As other members said, the front of the truck looks little bit up ??
May be hitch height adjustement >> ha ha just guess... don't laugh.

When I was in the touring mode, I saw many similar setups on the camp sites.
Which means that it will work fine otherwise people would not use this kind of setups.

[alanmcorcoran]

I have the anti sway bars. I'm not sure about the leveler. I believe from the specs I found tongue weight was 530 pounds. If that makes sense. I'll try to get some photos of the hitch parts when it's light out tomorrow.

[alantf]

I believe from the specs I found tongue weight was 530 pounds.

If,by that, you mean the weight at the hitch, it sounds heavy to me. I seem to remember that I could lift the hitch very easily.

[mrlmd1]

Also forgot to mention the fact that if you do use an equalizer hitch it usually has an anti sway bar that helps a great deal. Cost for the whole system is around 500.00.
From experience, it is the only way to pull a bumper pull travel trailer, and feel comfortable.

I have to differ with you -
An equalizer hitch is frame mounted, not bumper mounted. That trailer is much too heavy for a bumper mount hitch, it will pull the bumper right off or severely bend the thin mounts holding the bumper on. A bumper mount hitch is only meant to tow something maybe weighing a few hundred pounds and not putting anywhere near 500lbs. weight on the hitch itself.
If the tongue weight on AC's trailer is >500lbs, that's probably overloading his rear end and he would need a frame mounted weight distributing hitch to spread the weight over the 4 wheels of the tow vehicle, or much beefier springs and shocks on the rear end. It's different than loading 500 or even 1000lbs, into the cargo area, that's spread out over the whole truck, not just put on the rear end.

[alanmcorcoran]

Disconnected but you can see anti sway holders. I bought tow package with suburban so I think were frame mounted.

[alanmcorcoran]

Here I think you can see the hitch is bolted to the frame.

[mrlmd1]

The bar you have inserted into that hitch on your Suburban, which has an adjustable height mechanism for the ball, also extends the ball out further, adding another foot or so of leverage arm to it, which adds extra leverage weight on that hitch, which is one of the reasons your rear end sags and the front end is raised up higher. There are anti sway bracket holders on the trailer, but nothing like that on your hitch to connect to it.
You should take the whole rig to the place that put your hitch on and properly fit the right hitch to your vehicle to tow that trailer safely.
In addition to the front end being up in the air and lighter on the road possibly affecting your steering, your headlights will be way out of whack, aimed up towards the sky and not on the road. Your low beams will be in other oncoming driver's faces and your high beams searching for low flying aircraft.

[alanmcorcoran]

The sway bars go into square sockets with bolts and cotters on either side under the ball. Not sure there is much I can do re leverage - it's their ball joint and there's only one position (one hole) for the connecting beam. I think the solution is to beef up the rear suspension (or buy a beefier truck.)

The 1500 pulls just fine on your basic Midwest highway type road (straight, flat) but it's under powered for grades and it's not fun in lane number 1 (which is generally all effed up compared to the others.)

Your observation on the headlights is correct.

[Water Warrior 2]

See if the local auto parts store has shock absorbers with springs on them. I used 4 on my half ton to help carry a full size camper. 2 on the back of the Sub might do wonders although you may want to just renew all 4 if they are a few years old.

[alanmcorcoran]

Suburban is 1999 model bought in 98. Although it has less than 70k on it the parts are over ten years old. I'm gonna do some research and checking around before I tow again. I suspect that mrlmd is correct in that this trailer's a bit much for the 1500.

[alanmcorcoran]

Some additional thoughts:

1) even with renting, you're not saving any money on lodging. At a cost of about $110 a night for the rv, plus 30-50 bucks a night space rental plus an obscene amount of gas money (think I spent $150 plus the first day) you're easily past motel six territory.
2) there are intangible advantages to the rv. You can take lots of stuff and no packing and unpacking. You can save money on meals. You have a shower bathroom bedroom and a kitchen whenever you want one.
3) you can get some of these advantages without the rv if you "shamrock" tour. (pick an anchor point and do four loops that start and end there) but you can't bring lots of stuff and you might have to rely on restaurants for meals.
4) the rv shines on going places where there aren't places to stay and, if you are resourceful, you can avoid the 30-50 space rental.

[Water Warrior 2]

Yup that is the cost of having fun and the choices are many. I made my choice years ago to do the motel/hotel thing and let some one else clean up and do dishes after meals. Different activities can cost a lot but they are generally worth while as they add to life. After owning motor homes and assorted other things I determined the initial cost, insurance, maintenance and general futzing about was far from fun. Now driving or riding and letting other folks cater to me is nice as I get older and more lazy.
Renting a toy hauler is a good bet rather than owning one as the cost can be too high. You really have to use a recreation vehicle a lot before it becomes cost effective if you buy one.
Sometimes I have to question owning a bike considering the cost of insurance and initial cost in the GWN. Then there is the cost of farkles and our dumb ass duties and taxes at the border.

[mrlmd1]

Suburban is 1999 model bought in 98. Although it has less than 70k on it the parts are over ten years old. I'm gonna do some research and checking around before I tow again. I suspect that mrlmd is correct in that this trailer's a bit much for the 1500.

You can just beef up the Suburban with heavier shocks and springs and a load equailizing hitch if yours can be adapted to that, instead of buying a new vehicle. Those things are $40,000 or more now, and just how often are you going to do that?

[alanmcorcoran]

Yeah, mine was 38k when i bought in 98. Here is picture of anti sway bars. Had to do some serious effing around to get these back on...

[mrlmd1]

Just ask the place that put your hitch on if you can get a load equalizing hitch. That'll solve your problem.- spreads the load over the whole frame, over all 4 wheels.

[Water Warrior 2]

Yeah, mine was 38k when i bought in 98. Here is picture of anti sway bars. Had to do some serious effing around to get these back on...
I may be a little out of touch here but that looks to me like a load level hitch. The bars have an adjustable mount securing them to the trailer tongue. Move the mounts higher up on the tongue and they will force the weight of the entire hitch forward onto all 4 wheels of the Sub. Remove the bars, move the mounts higher and jack up the trailer tongue and Sub using the trailer parking jack. Install the bars and let down the jack. The entire rig should not drop down as far as before. The rig will be more level and easier to drive. Yeah it is some messing around but it may be a cheap answer to a solveable problem without spending a lot of cash. Once everything is dialed in the driving part will be a lot more fun and a lot easier on the Sub.

[alanmcorcoran]

I think you may have a point ww. The guy that put the ball part on ended up lowering everything cause he had trouble with the sway bars. Unfortunately I do not have the necessary wrenches. We're returning in tomorrow anyway.

Btw we made a bad choice earlier in campsites and ended up having to go up a narrow gravelly mountain road that was totally not suitable for trailers but I couldn't turn around for three miles. Even then it was a fork to a dirt road - had to drive up it and then hard crank the trailer backwards up the other fork to get headed back down. Nasty!

[mrlmd1]

Go to this web site and read this, has pictures, explains how this works -- http://www.etrailer.com/faq-weightdistribution.aspx

Common Weight Distribution and Sway Control Questions

Before weight distribution After weight distribution

Weight Carrying

When towing a trailer with a standard ball mount, all the trailer's tongue weight is transferred to the tow vehicle. Since the trailer hitch is attached to the vehicle frame, the additional weight in the rear will lower the back end of the vehicle while raising the front end. This means that the rear axle will be handling not only the trailer tongue weight but the additional load of the weight being transferred from the front axle. Less weight on the front axle can cause diminished performance, decreases in steering, traction and stopping and simultaneously increase trailer sway.

Weight Distributing

Weight distribution hitches add spring bars to the hitch system that apply leverage between the tow vehicle and the trailer. This leverage transfers the load sitting on the rear of the vehicle to all the axles of the vehicle and trailer. With the trailer tongue and rear cargo load distributed between the axles, the vehicle is leveled off and performance is greatly improved. Weight distributing systems should be used any time the trailer weighs more than 50 percent of the vehicle's weight.

Sizing

A weight distribution hitch will have two weight ratings, the gross trailer weight (GTW) and tongue weight (TW). The GTW capacity of the weight distribution system must exceed or match the loaded weight of the trailer. The TW rating listed on weight distributing hitches refers to trailer tongue weight plus the weight of the vehicle's cargo behind the rear axle. It is important to match the weight distribution system tongue weight to your specific application. Using spring bars with a 1,000 lb TW capacity on a trailer with 400 lb of tongue weight while 100 lbs of cargo is in the trunk (hitch weight = 500 lbs total) can lead to erratic weight distributing performance. Looking at it the other way, if a weight distribution system has 500 lb TW capacity with a 1,000 lbs of weight, the system would be ineffective.

* Gross Trailer Weight (GTW) : The weight of the trailer fully loaded in its actual towing condition. GTW is measured by placing the fully loaded trailer on a vehicle scale.
* Tongue Weight (TW) : With weight distribution systems this includes the tongue weight of the trailer AND the cargo weight behind the rear axle in the vehicle. Trailer tongue weight is the downward force exerted on the hitch ball by the trailer coupler. In most cases, it is about 10 to 15 percent of the GTW.


Tongue Weight (for Weight Distribution) = trailer tongue weight + vehicle cargo load behind rear axle

Determining Trailer Tongue Weight

Tongue weight on smaller trailers can be measured with a bathroom scale and a box. On a level surface, place the coupler of the loaded trailer on the scale at normal towing height (Figure A). For heavier tongue weights, use the method diagrammed below (Figure B).
Heavy Trailer TW Scale Diagram Light Trailer TW Scale Diagram



Weight Distribution Components

In addition to the Class III, IV or V trailer hitch on the vehicle, the weight distribution system is made up of the ball mount, spring bars (also called load bars or equalizing bars), and trailer-mounted brackets. The ball mount is composed of two pieces: the shank, which slides into the trailer hitch, and the ball platform, which is referred to as the weight distribution head. The shank is available in different lengths with different drops and rises to allow for various trailer heights.


Weight Distribution System

1. Hitch Assembly:

The trailer hitch attaches to the frame underneath the vehicle and provides the 2" x 2" (or 2-1/2" x 2-1/2") receiver opening that the weight distribution shank slides into. Trailer hitches are categorized by classes based on weight-carrying capabilities. A trailer hitch must be classified as Class III, IV or V to be considered for a weight distribution system. A few Class III hitches are designed NOT to be used with a weight distribution system; therefore, always check the weight capacity label that is on the trailer hitch. This sticker lists two capacities, weight carrying and weight distributing. If nothing is listed for weight distributing, then a weight distribution system cannot be used.

2. Shank Assembly:

The weight distributing shank is the piece that slides into the hitch and provides an attachment point for the head. The shank is available in many different lengths, drops and rises. For easier and safer towing, it is necessary to have the trailer at a level height when it is hooked up to the hitch ball. The shank will allow you to do this. View our FAQ page for more information on choosing the correct ball mount heightmore information. You can also view all our available weight distributing shanks.


Round Bar Trunnion Bar

3. Head Assembly:

The head unit holds the spring bars, provides a platform for the hitch ball, and attaches to the weight distributing shank. Weight distribution heads have a few different features to point out. The tilting mechanism, which fine tunes the weight distribution set up, is available in two different styles. The High Performance or Heavy Duty systems allow the tilt to be easily adjusted with serrated washers on the outside of the shank. The standard style systems use a pin with washers placed in between the head and the shank to control the tilt. Accessing the pin and washers can get quite tedious. However, this typically has to be done only upon initial setup or when the trailer load changes enough to alter the height of the coupler.

Heavy Duty Head Assembly Regular Head Assembly

The head can also have built-in platforms to allow for friction style sway control attachments. Many will offer only a right side attachment while some will have dual platforms which will be necessary for larger trailers (depending on the style of sway control used). The head is also made to accept different types of spring bars, round or trunnion. The round and trunnion terms refer to the end of the bars that attach to the weight distributing head. The round style bars slide up into the head and are held in place with clips. The trunnion style bars slide into the head from the side or back. The trunnion style of weight distribution is more heavy duty and can handle trailers of greater weight.


Round Bar Trunnion Bar

4. Spring Bar Assembly:

As previously explained, there are two types of spring bars - round and trunnion - referring to the end of the bars that attach to the weight distributing head. The round style bars slide up into the head and are held in place with clips. The trunnion style bars slide into the head from the side or back. Spring bars can also vary on the end opposite the trunnion or round bar end. The latest style from Draw-Tite, Hidden Hitch and Reese include built-in cams which are designed for use with Dual Cam Sway Control. The Draw-Tite, Hidden Hitch and Reese spring bars are also tapered on every side providing the ultimate in spring bar flex. The more the spring bar flexes, the more the weight distribution system will be working. When spring bars do not flex enough, the system can essentially turn off.

Round Bar Trunnion Bar Round Bar with Cams


5. Chain and Bracket Assembly:

Chain links are used to connect the spring bars to the trailer mounted brackets. The most common style is a snap-up uplift bracket. It lowers to grab the chain, then raises and snaps into position. The number of chain links is used to help determine the proper amount of tension to support the load. Space saving designs are also available that clamp to the trailer frame, or bolt to the side of the trailer frame.

Chain Connection





Sway Control

A popular accessory to the weight distribution system is the sway control. Trailer sway can be caused by crosswinds, poor trailer loading (load too far back), or inadequate spring bar tension. The use of a weight distributing hitch by itself will help improve trailer sway, but some additional products can help eliminate it. Trailer sway can be controlled with three different types of systems.

Friction Control
Independent Friction Controls

Independent friction controls have been around the longest. One side of the mechanism attaches to the trailer and the other to the weight distribution head. The steel bar with friction pad is used to slow down trailer sway. One slide bar friction control can be used for trailers up to 6,000 lbs Anything over 6,000 lbs, and less than 10,000 lbs, will require two controls. Independent friction controls can also be used without a weight distribution system. Over or under tightening the sliding mechanism can render the system ineffective. [Part #3400]

Dependant
Dependent Sway Controls

Dependent sway controls are built in to weight distribution systems. They rely on the downward force of the spring bar to apply frictional resistance to brackets on the trailer tongue to combat trailer sway. This style is more consistent than the independent friction style, is easier to hook up, and over or under tightening is not a problem. This system is the only one approved for trailers with surge (hydraulic) brakes. [Part #RP66152, RP66154, RP66156, RP66158]

Active
Active Sway Controls

Active sway controls also require a weight distribution system. An example of active sway controls is the Dual Cam System from Draw-Tite, Hidden Hitch and Reese which proactively and aggressively resist the start of sway by forcing the vehicle and trailer to ride in straight line. In tight turns the dual cam lifts the outside spring bar which increases towing performance by leaning the tow vehicle and trailer into the turn. The dual cam system can only work with weight distribution systems that have cams built into the spring bars. [Part #RP26002, and 26001]




Weight Distribution Styles

Weight distribution systems are available in many styles which differ from the type of spring bar to the type of ball platform to the way optional sway controls are integrated. Each of the different styles are then broken down to accommodate trailers of different weights.

Strait-Line Weight Distributing System with Sway Control by Draw-Tite, Hidden Hitch and Reese
Straight Line

The best in weight distributing systems and the best in trailer sway control has been combined in the Strait-Line system. The High Performance trunnion weight distributing hitch offers spring bars with the most flex ensuring the load is always evenly distributed, even on rough terrain. The serrated washers on the weight distribution head make it easy to fine tune installation of the system, while the Dual Cam system keeps the trailer in a straight line behind the tow vehicle. When only the best will do, then it has to be the Strait-Line Weight Distributing Hitch by Draw-Tite, Hidden Hitch and Reese.

Now that I look at the last picture you posted, I agree with WW - you have a weight distributing hitch, that's what those bars angled out from the hitch connected to the trailer are for, but they are not adjusted right and that's why your truck and trailer are not level. If you can't redo it, go back to the trailer place or hitch place and have then adjust it correctly, for safety and better drivability.

[Water Warrior 2]

Good info. Now Alan can start over and have a less stressful time towing.

[alanmcorcoran]

I think I may be done with it for a while. It was a good learning experience but what I've learned is that the tradeoffs involved (and there are many) ultimately come down on the side of just riding the motorcycle. It may be that there is an in between point that works better (like busy's setup with the van) but I think, if I can plan out the weather and the ride properly, I prefer just riding the bike to where I want to go. I've got a few other photos I'll put in another post. I appreciate all of the info.

[alanmcorcoran]

Couple of final shots...
http://s2.postimage.org/fYqwA.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/welcmj50/)

http://s2.postimage.org/fYC_i.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/wetmb9lw/)

[mrlmd1]

You don't look very happy for someone on a vacation.

[alanmcorcoran]

We call them "keeping it real shots." Besides, it wasn't a vacation - it was research! Thanks for all of your info, doctor...

(Here's T, KIR.)

http://s3.postimage.org/HoEv0.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2g3ur3t50/)

[Water Warrior 2]

Research........................cool, maybe you can get a government grant to continue. :lol:

[mrlmd1]

Nice, but she looks even less happy than you - probably from having to live with you and the bike for a week in the trailer on a vacation. (J/K, joke). :poke2: :)

Now that you know how all this works, are you going to do it again sometime?

[alanmcorcoran]

Probably not. Can't rule it out completely but the bottom line is I had a better time when it was just me and the bike. There's an endless list of Things That Can Go Wrong (and Cost You A Lot of Money) and a lot of work to do connecting and disconnecting. Plus they're a bitch to drive and the gas cost is astronomical. If I go with the wife it's got a bit of an edge but even there... I kinda prefer going alone. I did appreciate it when it rained all night Saturday and some of Sunday morning. Would have sucked in a tent. Maybe if I hadn't gone so far and if the trip was more days the aggravation would have been less and the usefulness higher.

So I guess... It depends.

[Water Warrior 2]

Now that you know where things can and will go wrong let it slide for a while. Maybe next time you can have little closer destination, less driving, being parked some place longer and just ride and enjoy. It is human nature to want it all, yes we are a greedy species and do tend to grab too much sometimes. I know I used to be a real glutton and got all choked up when things went south.