Toy Hauler Loading, Towing and other $hit that can go wrong.

[alanmcorcoran]

Some of you have probably seen from other threads that I'm scheduled to venture out (for the first time) with a smallish rental toy hauler and my ten year old 1/2 ton Suburban when i return to California (Thursday.) Several of you have already cautioned me about the joys of backing it up and aggravations with hitching and unhitching. I've done a little googling on the Internet and I've learned a few things:

1) People with 1/2 tons think they are big enough to tow.
2) People with 3/4 or 1 tons, think people with 1/2 tons (that're towing) are idiots.
3) All things considered, it's not a good idea to go over 55 (for a number of reasons, the least of which is, it's illegal.)
4) Side loaders seem to suck. Pretty sure mine loads from the rear.
5) Some people are able to load Harley sized bikes in Toy Haulers routinely. Others say it's impossible.
6) Some Toy Haulers are made to shit specs and the tie down rings etc. are known to pull right out of their cheap-ass composite wood floors. (This seems criminally stupid to me, but not surprising given my past experience with RV accessory "quality." [cough.])

Have some questions/chum for the board...

1) should I go with the Geezer for the first time out? Anybody done two up on a geezer? How long could their passenger's ass take it? Or suck it up and do the Strat?
2) Ride it into the Toy hauler? Walk it? winch it?
3) back it out under power or merely in gear? Or just with the brake?
4) Tie down recommendations?

And any other stuff you want to mention...

[alantf]

Anybody done two up on a geezer?

Regularly! My missus & I do it all the time for town riding, but don't even think about autopista (freeway?) riding with two up. Been there, done that - ONCE - Never ever, in no way shape or form ever intend to try it ever again. I reckon we could've run faster! :sad:

[alanmcorcoran]

FYI, I think this is the unit I'm going to rent. From the photos it doesn't look like the ramp is much of a challenge. But then again these things always look easier when you are looking at a picture.

http://www.rvusa.com/rvs/california/el- ... ler-207942 (http://www.rvusa.com/rvs/california/el-monte-rv/2011-eclipse-stellar-toy-hauler-207942)

[blaine]

The ramp looks like you can ride in,no problem.I think I would back it out running.That ramp looks low enough not to cause any problems riding in, or backing out with the Strat.
:) :cool:

[Moedad]

The ramp looks like you can ride in,no problem.I think I would back it out running.That ramp looks low enough not to cause any problems riding in, or backing out with the Strat.
:) :cool:

:) I agree.

[Water Warrior 2]

Oh my, love the full width ramp. The ramp does look low enough to ride up as mentioned. As for unloading I would be tempted to just back it out with engine shut off and in gear, The clutch and front brake can provide 2 wheel braking while both feet are on the floor/ramp/ground. Didn't see any tie downs in the pics. Hope they are just hidden and waiting to do the deed.
Alan your half ton Sub should work well enough for your purposes at 55 or 60. One of the biggest problems with towing is too light of a tow vehicle and the Sub is not a light weight by any means especially with a proper hitch and brake control.
Just go and enjoy the time with your wife and take pics to share. You have everything covered by the looks of it.

[mrlmd1]

Are you even sure you can get the Strat in there with that table in the way? Is it removable?
I've moved my S50 off my trailer with no problem just sitting on it, straddling it and balancing it and walking it backwards, slowing it down with the front brake. You don't need the bike in gear and have to use the clutch. There's also no reason to have it running when you back it down the ramp, just one less thing to worry about. Just back down straight and don't turn the bars 'till you get on flat ground as bikes fall over just as easily going backwards as going forward if steered to the side and using the front brake. The same thing could also happen if you used the rear brake or the clutch with bike in gear, just steer straight down the ramp.
That ramp is a pussy ramp - less than half as steep as the one on a trailer, the slope is much less, the ramp longer, and should be NO problem at all.
And I missed something along the way, like what is the point of all of this? Why do you need the toy hauler? Are you trying to get your bike home from somewhere or taking all of this on a vacation somewhere? If you're doing the latter, then just take the GZ and take your time and save 500lbs of grief and leave the big bike home.

[Easy Rider]

The ramp looks like you can ride in,no problem.

The problem might come in, however with deciding whether to let the bike intrude into the "kitchen" OR to wrassle it around so that it sits sideways. Sitting sideways in it's assigned slot would seem to be the obvious answer.......when there is a wife involved......but it seems to me that getting the Strat oriented that way might be a LOT more difficult (and dangerous) than it might appear. With that in mind, I would suggest the GZ for the first "test load". How good or bad that goes might determine which one you actually take.

Is there no door or partition seperating the "Toy section" from the living quarters ?? Gasoline vapors ??

If there is NOT a seperating "wall" then carrying the bike with the front wheel where the folding table goes wouldn't be much of a problem, I guess, as unloading the bike would seem to be a necessary first step RIGHT after stopping.

BUT then......that means leaving the bike outside overnight in un-familiar territory.

I will be VERY interested is hearing how this turns out ...............'cause the thought has crossed my mind of getting a self-contained version for a summer of Nascar/Outlaws chasin'. That thought hasn't been conveyed to the spouse yet though. :whistle:

[Easy Rider]

You don't need the bike in gear and have to use the clutch. There's also no reason to have it running when you back it down the ramp, just one less thing to worry about.


I second those recommendations, espcially the one about the clutch. Since feathering the clutch while backing down a hill without the engine running is NOT something one usually practices.......I suspect that it would be too grabby to be safe.

For some wierd reason, I feel more comfortable backing with the engine running......always, everywhere.
I have NO IDEA why that is. It really makes no sense since I'm usually not in gear. :??:

[blaine]

I've moved my S50 off my trailer with no problem just sitting on it, straddling it and balancing it and walking it backwards, slowing it down with the front brake. You don't need the bike in gear and have to use the clutch. There's also no reason to have it running when you back it down the ramp, just one less thing to worry about. Just back down straight and don't turn the bars 'till you get on flat ground as bikes fall over just as easily going backwards as going forward if steered to the side and using the front brake. The same thing could also happen if you used the rear brake or the clutch with bike in gear, just steer straight down the ramp.


:plus1: :tup:

[alanmcorcoran]

Are you even sure you can get the Strat in there with that table in the way? Is it removable?...

That ramp is a pussy ramp...

And I missed something along the way, like what is the point of all of this? Why do you need the toy hauler? Are you trying to get your bike home from somewhere or taking all of this on a vacation somewhere?

Assuming the first question is not a joke, yes, it is removable. Be hell to have to park on top of it.
As far as I am concerned, "Pussy" = "Excellent choice", expecially when it comes to motorcycle ramps (and sex prospects...)

Re the latter: There is no point to it, just as there is little point to much of anything I do, other than to distract myself from the general pointlessness of everything. Just exploring new (and more expensive) ways of wasting time. Done the tent thing and could do it again, want to try this to see how it compares hassle wise. Also, would like to skip the "riding all day just to get to the good stuff" portion of touring, especially with the wife along. She gets antsy after about 60 minutes on the back and could never tolerate a 10-hour riding day. (The Suburban is a pretty cushy ride in comparison.) I've given serious consideration to just taking the Geezer, and I won't rule it out until I've seen the unit (and the tie-downs) in person. The drawback is that two upping on the Geezer is a large step down from two upping on the Strat. A very large step down.

[alanmcorcoran]

The ramp looks like you can ride in,no problem.I think I would back it out running.That ramp looks low enough not to cause any problems riding in, or backing out with the Strat.
:) :cool:

Good. I'm starting to feel a little better about this already. Now I need to make sure the tie-down situation is properly handled..

[mrlmd1]

I thought you were talking about a "real" toy hauler, with a totally separate garage/compartment in the back, not a combo living space/garage. I don't think you are going to like that thing you picked out very much and I don't think there's much room in there for all of you. You'll never get the Strat in there sideways and I don't see any places in there to strap a bike down. Either of them won't be very stable jumping along the road if you can't strap them down to something solid.
It's just as easy to get a hitch mount bike hauler with a ramp to put the GZ up on like I suggested to busyweb earlier, and sleep in the back of the Suburban if you can put the seats flat down, like I can in mine. :poke2: :)

[alanmcorcoran]

Yes, it does not have a separate garage area and that is a negative, but it is nonetheless "real". There is 10 feet to fit an 8 foot motorcycle. I'm not Evel Knievel but it should be doable. Not sure where the sideways idea came from, but it probably would not fit sideways.

The tradeoff is size and weight. I don't have a big, powerful towing vehicle and I'm not prepared (yet) anyway to be towing a long, heavy load. I was going to try exactly what you suggest (with the hitch mount bike hauler), but to me, this looks like a more interesting alternative. Re the living space - I can assure you that, compared to my REI 2 Plus Dome tent, the living space in this kicks ass. For example, you can sit down in it. And you can stand up in it. And there's walls and shit. Hopefully it won't blow away if the wind kicks up, but I've seen a few off the side of the freeway when it gets gusty.

Seeing as it will cost me under $500 to try this out for 5 days, (as opposed to buying one for $17-18K), I'm treating it strictly as a learning experience. I'd never own one - I've got no place to park it.

[mrlmd1]

That's pretty cheap, better than most hotel rooms, more than some motel rooms, but for camping out it's good. You would probably just be taking some local trips on the bike to explore the local surroundings, with the toy hauler as home base to come back to everyday, so why do you need to take the Strat just for tooling around. On the other hand, if you want to ride alone on the highway for a while while she drives the Suburban pulling the trailer, then take the big bike. So many choices, too much to think about.
That ramp though is absolutely nothing to worry about, it's more like a sloping driveway than a steep ramp. Ride it up under power, let gravity take it down with the assistance of the front brake while you sit on it. No problem either way.

[burkbuilds]

Alan, with your level of riding experience this should be pretty easy for you. I recently rented a U-Haul truck in Chattanooga with a 24" wide ramp and drove my Vulcan up the ramp, tied it down in the front corner using some ratcheting tie down straps, load the truck, drove it to Atlanta, unloaded the truck, returned it to the Atlanta U-Haul dealer and backed it down that 24" wide, fairly steep ramp and into the parking lot without a hitch. You have a lot more experience riding than I do and the ramp on that RV thing looks to be about 7+feet wide and fairly close to the ground to start with. No sweat, you should have no problems. Have a great trip! :)

[alanmcorcoran]

Thanks BB. You may have confused me with the other Alan (re experience). My "real" motorcycle experience is a little more than two years (and two bikes.) Previous to buying the Geezer in June '08, my two wheel experience was limited to bicycles (quite a bit) and mopeds (many years previous.) Two years on I have about 4500 miles on the Geezer and over 11,000 on the Strat (bought the Strat Jan '09.) Certainly more than a newb, but I still consider myself a relatively inexperienced rider. I did increase my skill and confidence a lot on my recent 2000 mile plus outing. With the Stratoliner, it's important to remain aware of one's limitations as its weight and handling are very unforgiving. It is especially tricky when operating at slow speeds, sharp inclines or slippery surfaces. (Two of which were responsible for my two minor drops early on...) I thought the Toy Hauler might be an unholy combination of all three, but I have to admit - looking at the closeups of the ramp it's equipped with, it only looks a little more challenging than pulling into my real garage.

I have some U-Haul experience and if you are talking about that aluminum plank that pulls out from under the truck bed, I'd never back the Strat down one of them. One slip in concentration and I could see (parts of) myself crushed between some shiny Art Deco chrome and the parking lot.

I'll be sure to file a report on how things go. Unless I do something really stupid.

[Water Warrior 2]

Seeing as it will cost me under $500 to try this out for 5 days, (as opposed to buying one for $17-18K), I'm treating it strictly as a learning experience. I'd never own one - I've got no place to park it.
That is a pretty cheap experiment/learning experience and you can park anywhere you want except at home. Sure beats buying a toy hauler to find out it just isn't what you want. If it really works well for you and the wifey then you could rent for years before approaching the actual cost of ownership and maintenance.

[alanmcorcoran]

... so why do you need to take the Strat just for tooling around....

'Cause I'll be tooling around with her on the back of it.

I should say though, the Strat is quite appropriate for general tooling around. I'm not comfortable with it on dirt or loose gravel and I get a little clenchy when I have to negotiate steep, sharp hairpins, but, despite its size and weight, it actually handles pretty good in twisties - even with two people on it. I'm still pretty early on in my cornering skill development but I can comfortably go 10-15 miles an hour over the "signage" and suspect, if I master a little more of the Keith Code stuff, I could do better. Loading it and unloading it seem to be one area of potential aggravation - if the trailer is facing even a tiny bit downhill I'm screwed. It is extremely difficult to back the thing up even slightly uphill. But I think I've set my sights sufficiently low, so that, as long as I don't wrap it (and us) around the grille of a semi, I'll consider the trip a success.

I definitely do not intend to ride the thing alongside on the freeway. One thing I've kind of come around to - anything more than an hour of freeway is more than I really care to do. I only do more out of necessity, not for enjoyment. Right now I get the most fun out of the sweepers, climbing esses, scenic routes, etc. Barrelling along at 85 in a straight line for three or four hours may be character building, but I'd rather not if its an option.

[alanmcorcoran]

That is a pretty cheap experiment/learning experience and you can park anywhere you want except at home. Sure beats buying a toy hauler to find out it just isn't what you want. If it really works well for you and the wifey then you could rent for years before approaching the actual cost of ownership and maintenance.

Yes, for many things, especially special purpose vehicles (RV's, JetSki's, Segways), I've found renting, even if it's a tad pricey, makes a lot more sense than owning. We've rented a number of different rigs from El Monte RV over the last 25 years and never regretted it. In the past, I figured I was working too much to ever get regular use out of one (plus the parking issue.) They are very expensive to purchase, require a lot of maintenance and depreciate like crazy. One of my business associates has purchased about a half dozen different RV's over the years, (the later ones in the six figure variety) and he has at least two or three horror stories to go with each one.

[Water Warrior 2]

I hear you Alan. I too have horror stories when it comes to expensive toys. Now I just stick to my choice of wheels(cage or bike) and do the hotel/motel thing.

[music man]

Seeing as it will cost me under $500 to try this out for 5 days, (as opposed to buying one for $17-18K), I'm treating it strictly as a learning experience. I'd never own one - I've got no place to park it.


That thing is badass Alan, and for under 500 bucks for 5 days, versus droppin 20 grand buying one, you would be nuts to buy one, hell you could just rent one everytime you wanted to go vacationing in it and still come out far ahead of buying the damn thing.