Idle problems

[Fish Baseball]

Ok, so here is the tale....

Bout a week ago now the bike dies and refuses to go any further, cranks but does not fire.
I've replaced the sparkplug, cleaned the airbox and cleaned out the air-filter, replaced the oil filter and oil, ran some carb cleaner through. It runs again!
So it runs fine, as long as the throttle is open (a small amount is enough), however the minute I leave it to idle, the bike dies out and does not start again with the electric starter, so start the whole process again by rolling down the hill leading to my place in 2nd and starting it like that. And yes, has plenty of petrol.

My thoughts.....
1. battery isn't holding charge.
2. if it is, I haven't gapped the new plug correctly.
3. I think that the idle screw may just need to be screwed up a bit to a point where it will idle.

Have I missed something?

[blaine]

Did you charge your battery on a charger overnight?Did you go for a drive after you got it running again?If not a good ride with more carb cleaner may fix your Idle and will do a lot to rejuvenate your battery.The bike really don't charge much unless out at road speed .


:2tup: :)

[Fish Baseball]

not really a good ride, just round the block a few times. I'm gonna go get a battery charger in the morning, hook it up for a couple of hours and then go for a ride before work to "hopefully" resolve everything.

Thanks too!

[Easy Rider]

I think that the idle screw may just need to be screwed up a bit to a point where it will idle.

That would be the logical answer, I think.......but then after the carb cleaner does it's job, you may need to adjust it back down again.

Are you using the choke on a cold start......and leaving it partly ON until it gets good and hot ??

What kind of cleaner did you use ??.....and how much ??

[Fish Baseball]

[quote="Fish Baseball":3812u3l2] I think that the idle screw may just need to be screwed up a bit to a point where it will idle.

That would be the logical answer, I think.......but then after the carb cleaner does it's job, you may need to adjust it back down again.

Are you using the choke on a cold start......and leaving it partly ON until it gets good and hot ??

What kind of cleaner did you use ??.....and how much ??[/quote:3812u3l2]

Seafoam. Tiny bit, about 30ml or so the directions told me. (yes i've read and re-read the many reccomendations on this site, and thought it may be worth a shot)
Choke isn't making any difference, it still dies out on me.

Changing the idle screw isn't a huge job, I'm happy to do it to get the bike kicking goals again.

[Easy Rider]

Seafoam. Tiny bit, about 30ml or so the directions told me.

Choke isn't making any difference, it still dies out on me.

Changing the idle screw isn't a huge job, I'm happy to do it to get the bike kicking goals again.

Not nearly enough Seafoam. IIRC, the recommendation is about 1 OZ per US gallon; that would be about 90 ML in a full tank.

If you haven't already, you need to drain the float bowl too.

And I don't think we are talking about the same "idle screw".
The idle SPEED knob isn't any job at all; just twist it a bit; same exact effect as holding the throttle open a tiny bit.

You should NOT mess with the idle mixture screw when it isn't running right as that may just make matters worse.......or make it hard to tell when you have it fixed.

If operating the choke "makes no difference", then there something wrong that needs to be fixed, like plugged passages in the carb. When cold, the engine should run better and faster with a little choke. When hot, applying more that just a TINY bit of choke should make it stumble and die.

[Fish Baseball]

ok, so now have a charged battery, drained the float bowl.....bike starts and runs.....and still dies regardless of choke.

and your right, I am talking about the idle speed screw, not the mix screw. That hasn't been touched since before the bike stopped, so i see very little good comming out of adjustment there.

[Fish Baseball]

resolution. Despite cleaning out the air filter it was that clogged that it was the issue causing the bike not to idle......Take out the air filter, problem solved. Now to get a replacement air filter.

Thanks Guys for all your help on this one, I'd buy you all some beer, but its a little hard to post to you! :2tup:

[Water Warrior 2]

Fish, just send beer money to Dupo and he will take care of it.

[Easy Rider]

Take out the air filter, problem solved. Now to get a replacement air filter.


Alas, you might not be done yet.

If the bike runs normally with NO air filter, including starting and riding.......that means that something else is making it WAY rich......because a "normal" stock (north american) GZ runs like crap without the air filter in place. IIRC, you need choke to idle and it stumbles a lot above idle.

[Fish Baseball]

[quote="Fish Baseball":2s2gekjv]Take out the air filter, problem solved. Now to get a replacement air filter.


Alas, you might not be done yet.

If the bike runs normally with NO air filter, including starting and riding.......that means that something else is making it WAY rich......because a "normal" stock (north american) GZ runs like crap without the air filter in place. IIRC, you need choke to idle and it stumbles a lot above idle.[/quote:2s2gekjv]


and this is why i depend on you guys for input. The new air filter will be here within the hour, and I'll be finding out then. If i don't repost till later you should know that all is good. If I repost within the next 90 mins, you know theres a problem :rawk:

[Fish Baseball]

Update. Battery doesn't hold any charge, won't even roll start. Am charging again now and will try again in the morning. (had to go to work.)

[Easy Rider]

Update. Battery doesn't hold any charge, won't even roll start. Am charging again now and will try again in the morning. (had to go to work.)

That's fine for a test ride but you REALLY need to get a new battery before it strands you out somewhere on the road.......or before it leads you to believe that there is something ELSE wrong and you waste some more time and money. :cry:

Two days ago, I thought my bike was turning over a little slow on start; I'll check it out later; forgot. Yesterday, it sounded even slower but still started. I forgot to put the side stand up so it died when I put it in gear. Wouldn't even turn 1 revolution. Time for a new battery.

The "tender" changer gave a green light after being connected only about 20 minutes; a dead give-away that it's the battery and not the charging system that's bad. That got it started and to the shop. $80 later and it's all better.

[Fish Baseball]

And the only place I'm gonna ride it to is straight to the local battery retailer.....according to the conversation i had with him today, I don't have to put acid or charge the battery, that he'll take care of all of this for me. And he'll even knock $20 off the price of a replacement as I'll be giving him the dead old battery as well.

I will have a running bike. Its now a matter of honour.

[Fish Baseball]

done sweet and sorted. Alls well, running well now. Get the feeling that its running a little on the rich side, cause it will start without choke now, where as before it needed a good deal of choke for the first 30 sec or so, but I'll get that figured out next.

Again, much thanks for your help guys.

[blaine]

done sweet and sorted. Alls well, running well now. Get the feeling that its running a little on the rich side, cause it will start without choke now, where as before it needed a good deal of choke for the first 30 sec or so, but I'll get that figured out next.

Again, much thanks for your help guys.

Sounds like the choke plunger may be sticking at the carb end causing your rich mixture.

:smallrawk: :lol:

[ncff07]

Seafoam is pricey. Checked today at autozone it was $10 for a 15 ounce can and Berrymans chemtool was $4 for a 16 ounce can.

[Fish Baseball]

and here i was thinking that i'd resolved the issues. it idles fine, runs ok, but when you take it out to ride it surges and splutters. add to that that the airbox fills with fuel and oil (about 250ml) from a 1km ride.

So this tells me that is getting blowback out of the air intake.....and on reading the forums here I've realised it does sound like a stuck carb float. Rebuild carb time?

Is it worth persisting at this point or am I trading in?

[Easy Rider]

Is it worth persisting at this point or am I trading in?

Before you get rid of it...........remove the air filter, clean up the air box, including draining the tube (and put the cap back on), then take a test ride without the air filter.

ALL of what you describe could be caused by a plugged air filter. If running without it gets you back to where you need the choke again when it's cold, a new air filter might fix you right up.

Then go ahead with the B12 treatment....if you haven't already.

[Fish Baseball]

[quote="Fish Baseball":2qv8tjwk]Is it worth persisting at this point or am I trading in?

Before you get rid of it...........remove the air filter, clean up the air box, including draining the tube (and put the cap back on), then take a test ride without the air filter.

ALL of what you describe could be caused by a plugged air filter. If running without it gets you back to where you need the choke again when it's cold, a new air filter might fix you right up.

Then go ahead with the B12 treatment....if you haven't already.[/quote:2qv8tjwk]

Already has been done, replaced the air filter and cleaned the airbox to get to this point. Will be taking it to my local mechanic monday to get their opinion.

[Fish Baseball]

To end this sorry tale, its now officially cheaper to buy another motorcycle than persist with the GZ250. That being said, I'm still gonna persist with getting it back on the road and winning again, but I have to get another bike to get to work cause Melbournes public transport is best described as lacklustre.

So thanks for all the help.

[alantf]

To end this sorry tale, its now officially cheaper to buy another motorcycle than persist with the GZ250.

Why? What'd the mechanic say? :)

[Water Warrior 2]

To end this sorry tale, its now officially cheaper to buy another motorcycle than persist with the GZ250.

Why? What'd the mechanic say? :)
YAH, what he said.

[Fish Baseball]

ok here goes....
cylinder head = replace
valves = replace
piston = replace
carb = rebuild/replace
battery = replace
and some things i didn't know where wrong
new exhaust, as the old one has a hole in it
fork seals = replace

and of course he gave me a quote for this, and total plus labour came to the amount of $2300.
So I can do this all myself, except for the carb rebuild (not confident enough)
hence why I'm keeping the GZ around and not trading it in. I've been offered a $2200 2004 GPX250 by a friend who's dad rode it, but now is too old to ride (he's now in a home)

[alantf]

How about Mechanic = replace! Sounds like he's too much time on his hands & not enough customers. Did he tell you how he came to the conclusion that you need to finance his next holiday to the Caribbean? :??:

[blaine]

I think your mechanic is delusional.Did he actually tear the bike down to come to this conclusion,or is he making claims at your expense?

:??: :cry:

[Easy Rider]

So I can do this all myself, except for the carb rebuild (not confident enough)
hence why I'm keeping the GZ around and not trading it in.

Two thoughts on that:

You do realize that in order to do the engine work, you have to "split" the lower case......which effectively means taking the transmission apart too.....right ??

And I think most people with a "worn out" engine in most any vehicle would be wanting to trade it in and get a few bucks out of it instead of keeping it around. Any special reason that you are going the other way ??

[Easy Rider]

I think your mechanic is delusional.Did he actually tear the bike down to come to this conclusion,or is he making claims at your expense?

Based on what he went through just to get to this point, it would appear that the bike was severely neglected by a previous owner or two. He didn't give us the mileage, that I remember, but I suspect it is on the high side.

Assuming for arguements sake that is true, I think the estimate he got is probably a good "cover your ass" figure from the shop; that is, worst case when they get it apart. Rings and valves for sure; some of that other stuff, maybe not......but that's only a couple of hunderd more since you already have it apart.

Probably a good call to trade it in, sell for parts or look for a complete engine/tranny in good condition.

[Fish Baseball]

well the mechanic is the local suzuki store. They came recommended to me y by a good friend who is a school auto teacher. They had the bike for three days, and had the engine out and on a stand, and pointed out most of these issues to me then and there. So, from that, I'm gonna tend to agree that it was a cover their asses quote.

32,0000 kms is what it reads on the clock. I can only guess at what the PO had done to it, beyond not knowing what a torque wrench is, because on closer inspection of the bike you can see where they have used a rattle gun to put most of the bolts back in.

As far as trading it in, I'm a big fan of this little bike, and it certainly punches well above its weight. So I've decided I'm gonna fix it up over the long term.

On the new bike front, Mrs Baseball has put her foot down and declared that there is no way I'm allowed to get a sportsbike. I tend not to wish to argue with her on this one, as she has mentioned sleeping on the couch and a refusal of certain activities that one enjoys with her.
So I'm now looking for another cruiser motorcycle, again, I'm gonna stick with a 250 due to the fuel savings, and the personal view of I'm not really interested in anything bigger. I've ridden the Gladius 650, the CBR10000(pirate, too many RR's), and the VT750 along with some other 250's and found no real huge selling point of going bigger.

So the two bikes I've narrowed things down to are the VL250 intruder (suzuki) or the GV250 Aquilla (Hyosung), and its now only down to aesthetics that are the issue. I don't really like the gauge on the fuel tank of the VL250, but then there is a wanky badge on the side of the GV250 declaring it as a v-twin, which I think is an eyesore.

Since I'm getting either one or the other this week I'll let you all know.

And Easy, I'm aware its not a simple task to do most of the repairs needed, but you've gotta learn somewhere right? Have no fear thou, I'll have plenty of questions to ask, and am still ever thankful for all of your and everyones help here.

[Easy Rider]

And Easy, I'm aware its not a simple task to do most of the repairs needed, but you've gotta learn somewhere right? Have no fear thou, I'll have plenty of questions to ask, and am still ever thankful for all of your and everyones help here.

You are in a perfect situation to do that: learn by doing......on somthing where you don't have a deadline to get it back on the road.

The problem likely IS that you will find scant little help here for splitting the case and doing whatever you need to do to keep the transmission in tact so you can get it back together.
I just don't think anybody here has ever done that.....successfully.

We had one user a while back that did a complete rebuild......but I don't think he visits anymore.

Good luck !!

[Fish Baseball]

well a mate of mine is a high school auto teacher, and he's already told me whatever help I need he's up for. And at worst, I'll just look for a replacement engine/tranny. I agree its the sort of opportunity that I should grab onto and learn as much as i can. And hey, if i do get it done right, I'll be sure to post plenty of information here, to contribute to the wealth of knowledge thats already on offer here.

[blaine]

well a mate of mine is a high school auto teacher, and he's already told me whatever help I need he's up for. And at worst, I'll just look for a replacement engine/tranny.

What a awesome way to turn a "negative" into a "positive".Good luck.Keep us posted on your progress.
:2tup: :yes:

[mrlmd1]

If you're looking for another inexpensive to run 250cc cruiser bike, what about the Yamaha 250 or Honda Rebel? One of those may fit your bill or even another GZ. Will your 10 year old GZ be worth what you sink into repairing it? Parting it out may recoup some of your money spent on another good bike.

[Fish Baseball]

have considered the yamaha v-star/virago and its just too small, and the honda rebel is pretty much a cb250, so a 233cc or so engine, so downgrading that far isn't an option. The GZ is pretty much as far down the power scale as I'd like to go.

On the note of parting out the GZ and recouping costs, I've been talking to Ms. Baseball now for about a year about getting a project bike, and here I'm presented with one. True, it'll prolly never return a profit, but when you consider the amount I'll learn plus the "something to do with downtime" factor, I think thats more than enough for me thanks.

Not to mention that it was recently tax time here in Australia, and I got a nice little return that I don't mind putting down for a "new" bike.

[mrlmd1]

Well then go for it. You will learn a lot and if you do get it back together and running well, there's no greater satisfaction than that.

[cb3]

ok here goes....
cylinder head = replace
valves = replace
piston = replace
carb = rebuild/replace
battery = replace
and some things i didn't know where wrong
new exhaust, as the old one has a hole in it
fork seals = replace

and of course he gave me a quote for this, and total plus labour came to the amount of $2300.
So I can do this all myself, except for the carb rebuild (not confident enough)I can almost guarantee you that this is just a carb issue. Mine was doing about the same when I bought it. Mine had been sitting for months. I took the carb completely apart, cleaned everything, fuel jets, air jets, needle valve. The only thing I had to replace were two o-rings. I also added an in-line fuel filter and new gas with B-12. PURRRRRRRR! I printed off pages from the service manual in case I had questions while working. 1 hour back running tops!
hence why I'm keeping the GZ around and not trading it in. I've been offered a $2200 2004 GPX250 by a friend who's dad rode it, but now is too old to ride (he's now in a home)

[Easy Rider]

I can almost guarantee you that this is just a carb issue.

Despite your personal experience, it would appear that several people, including qualified mechanics at a dealership, would disagree with your "guarantee". :roll:

If you haven't already, maybe you should review the whole thread again.

AND it was REALLY hard to tell what you added to the quote you posted.
Your stuff goes AFTER the last [/quote] ........and you can go back and edit it if it doesn't look right the first time. :tup:

[cb3]

Yea, sorry about the whole quote thing a ma bob. Didnt realize it was all f'd up till now. And personal experience is all I have to offer. Ill refrain from the use of guarantee,warranty. promise, certainty and the like from now on. Thanks for the reminder.

[Fish Baseball]

Yea, sorry about the whole quote thing a ma bob. Didnt realize it was all f'd up till now. And personal experience is all I have to offer. Ill refrain from the use of guarantee,warranty. promise, certainty and the like from now on. Thanks for the reminder.

Hey man, alls good. This bike has its fair share of problems, I wish it was as easy as you'd gotten away with. :2tup: And please feel free to offer your personal experiences, cause thats what I was asking for. But yeah, its a little bit more than just the carb problems, as myself and my mate are now finding out. We got the engine out last night, and have realized that it may be easier (and cheaper) to replace the engine and rebuild the carb, rather than messing about attempting to fix it. :mad:

But on the good news front picked up a VL250 Intruder yesterday, 2001 with 9950km on the clock, for less than 5k AUD....

[Water Warrior 2]

What ?? A VL 250! We need pics soonest.

[Fish Baseball]

well a little update on the slow going it is to figure out what is keeping the little bike down.....

- runs fine now. until it fouls the plugs and puts us back to square 1.
- still fills the airbox with petrol and oil.
- the hole in the exhaust pipe is fixed!
- the fuel tank pipe (the one that switches from main to reserve) now is fixed, so the petcock actually does something now
- new cylinder head, new piston + rings.....
- carb is next on the list to replace/rebuild/murder

but the little bike runs now, and is getting better......well until it fouls its plugs and we can't start it.

[Easy Rider]

- still fills the airbox with petrol and oil.
- the hole in the exhaust pipe is fixed!
.....well until it fouls its plugs and we can't start it.

Your fouling problem sounds a lot like a stuck float or needle valve that is dumping raw gas into the chamber......and then down into the oil too. Best that you NOT run it much until you get that figured out.......or the next trick will be a LOWER rebuild for new bearings. :cry:

I hope the exhaust hole you fixed wasn't the one in the bottom.......that is there on purpose to drain out water !! :biggrin: