Gear Shifting

[fg1234567892000]

I have rode a motorcycle for about 6 months, 3 months of which I have spent with my GZ250. I have read the manual and at first really had to adjust to the gear ratio for shifting (my first bike was a 400). I have tried to stick to what the manual says about when to shift gears: Change to 2nd when you hit 12 mph, 3rd at 19, 4th at 25, 5th at 37. If anything, I go over this by a few mph, give or take. However, I've been reading a lot on the forums about riding in 4th clear up to 60 mph, especially when going up hills. I usually run the freeway in 5th at 65, and then when I hit a hill (which are moderately steep here in Iowa) I just crank the throttle and at worst I drop to 55 mph. Am I shifting up to 5th at the right frequency here? What is a good strategy for the high speeds/steep hills?

Thanks for the help.

[blaine]

Sounds about right to me.you don't want to push the bike to hard.The bike is very rugged and will last many miles if cared for properly.My I ask why you down sized from a 400cc.

[diffluere]

I think there's a whole thread about this somewhere. I can't imagine being in 3rd at 19mph!! Sometimes when I'm downshifting I accidentally take a turn in third and it feels like I'm never going to get there.

Here's what I do, but you can really do whatever you like the best:

1st to 2nd gear ~ 20
3rd ~ 35
4th~ 47
5th ~ honestly I get to go fast so rarely I can't even remember, but I know i've been going 60mph in 4th a few times.

I drive around town mostly, so it's pointless for me to shift all the way up to 5th. I rarely make it into 4th gear, especially because people around here can't read speed limit signs. Every time I go to work (seriously) the car in front of me goes 35 or 40 in the 45mph zone, and it's a 3 mile stretch of straight road. Ugh. I sing a little song I call 'I love 3rd Gear' to pass the time.

[fg1234567892000]

I downsized out of both preference and necessity--I always really wanted a 250 as my starter bike. Also, in my area, I found it difficult to find a 400-500cc bike in my price range. Also, I wanted to go with something a bit new than my old (1981) bike.

And yes, I read a bit from the other thread but it didn't quite touch on the high speeds and larger hills that I really wondered about.

Thanks for your help!

[alantf]

Forget about mph/gear change. Once you get used to the engine sound, you'll be changing gear by listening to the engine. I can't remember ever looking at the speedometer to change gear. It's just not realistic. Different road conditions call for different speeds for the gear change, so its the engine revs, not the speed that counts. :2tup:

[Water Warrior 2]

Always try to be in the appropriate gear for power if you need it. Listen to the bike, it will give you good feed back. As Alantf pointed out, the recommended shift points are not that realistic. It is probably more Lawyer Speak for do not break the bike till after the warranty expires.

[Easy Rider]

Change to 2nd when you hit 12 mph, 3rd at 19, 4th at 25, 5th at 37. I just crank the throttle and at worst I drop to 55 mph.

While I don't remember the exact numbers, in general the 1-2 number in the book is high and all the rest are low.

I couldn't bear to go above 10 in stock form in 1st but you can certainly up those other numbers. If you pay attention to what the engine sounds like in 1st at about 10 mph and make the other shifts at about the same point you should be OK.
Just guessing: 10, 25, 35, 45. You can, if the need arrises, run it for short distances in 4th about 55 (STEEP hills, which you don't have in Iowa except maybe Dubuque).

If you can learn to anticipate those hills and crank the throttle a little ways BEFORE you actually hit the incline it should make a good difference; maybe dropping only 5 mph instead of 10.

I got pretty good at that during my ride through the mountains of Tennessee.......even with the 16T front. When I was learning to drive, we called that technique "6 cylinder driving".

[Easy Rider]

1st to 2nd gear ~ 20


WOW are you sure about that?
I think the little beast would be SCREAMING at 20 MPH in 1st. (NOT good).
I don't think I could bear to do that even after the front sprocket change.
(But then my memory could be off a bit too........) :roll:

[alantf]

I know I get into 2nd as soon as the bike's moving. First is for setting off, & climbing mount everest. :biggrin:

[Sarris]

The GeeZer's redline is 8500+ rpm. I have a tach and I was surprised how much "powerband" there is. They are meant to rev, hence those 3000 mile oil changes. I like the powerband even better with the 16 tooth front sprocket. Using the engine's capability isn't abuse.

:)

[diffluere]

As mentioned by someone else, I don't actually stare at the spedo when switching gears, but the speed limit on campus is 20mph. I can ride around in first and yeah, it's an annoying sound so I usually switch to second. When I get stuck behind a bus or something though it's useless to keep shifting between 1st and 2nd every 100 yards so I'll just stay in first. Like everyone else said it depends entirely on the situation.

I might in reality be going somewhere around 18-19mph. It's definitely NOT 12mph though! IIRC redline in first is only 22mph but I've never revved it up that far. I'll actually look tomorrow on my way to school and let you know. Motorcycle research is always exciting..

[GZ Jess]

I definitely listen, to know when to shift. However, I also shift out of 1st as soon as possible because I can't stand the jerkiness of the throttle and the "whining". I did read the manual when I first got the bike and started shifting close to specks but I noticed particularly going from 4th to 5th that you can hold out a lot longer and if I shift anytime before the 45 mph mark it chugs in 5th (so I usually hold out to around 50-55). I definitely downshift for hills. If I am by myself with no traffic around I can afford to let my speed dip but if I am in formation with 15 bikes I have to pop it into 4th to maintain a constant speed on the hills.

Have fun! Jessica

[zenbutcher]

The GeeZer's redline is 8500+ rpm. I have a tach and I was surprised how much "powerband" there is. They are meant to rev, hence those 3000 mile oil changes. I like the powerband even better with the 16 tooth front sprocket. Using the engine's capability isn't abuse.

:)
I had to stop reading right here to comment... I totally agree with you on this subject. When I first got my bike about a year ago, I babied it. I shifted when the book said to do so. I never got it over 60-65 mph.

After taking a trip to Nashville from Chattanooga back in April, I'm not as cautious with her. This bike (mine at least) will hit 80 mph. And, I feel like I have plenty of power up until about 65 mph. Instead of shifting at 4-5000 rpms, I'll take it up to what I feel like is 6500 or more. Now, the little bike is screaming, but I'm coming around to the idea that motorcycle engines are meant to scream. That's where their powerband is... And, fyi, for the new owners, dropping an ounce of carb cleaner every other tank or so has really helped with the power as well.

I'm sure you old farts will disagree with a lot of this post. And, that's fine, too.

[Sarris]

My tach shows about 1000 rpm per 10 mph +/- with the 16 tooth front sprocket..... very handy. It'll cruise all day at 60 mph. and you can get all they way thru an intersection without having to upshift.

My powerband really doesn't taper off until about 7000 rpm. Cruising at 70 is out (with my 280 lb ass aboard). I do use (not abuse) all the power she has.

The GeeZer is what it is, but it's even better when you wind it up a bit. :)

[Easy Rider]

Instead of shifting at 4-5000 rpms, I'll take it up to what I feel like is 6500 or more. Now, the little bike is screaming, but I'm coming around to the idea that motorcycle engines are meant to scream.

You're pushing the envelope. You might get away with it for a long time and you might NOT too.
Single and twin cylinder "long stroke" engines are NOT meant to "scream". Their most efficient power generation is with low to medium end torque.....not screaming horsepower.

If you want to see a small engine that IS designed for screaming high end horsepower, ride a Ninja 250 sometime. I think someone said that the red line was something like 14,000 rpm......and it will scream along at 12,000 all day long.

Like I mentioned before, we've only had two riders come here and report engine failures (not counting things like "no oil"). One liked to make it "scream" before every shift and the other ran his for long periods at 80 or slightly above. Since you seem to be doing both, I wouldn't want to give odds on the longevity of your engine. It was NOT designed to be riden that way.

[alanmcorcoran]

As has been said many, many, (MANY) times on here - use fifth gear as an overdrive. In most conditions, you will get more speed out of the bike in fourth - even though the engine is going around a lot more. I don't ride mine that much on the highway, but when I do I try to get it over 60-65 in fourth before I consider going to fifth. If there is any wind or incline I just leave it in fourth. Mine won't do 80, but if there is a tailwind and the road is flat I can hit 75 in fifth. Most of the time I have to content myself with fourth and 65 as there is no tailwind and the road has a grade.

[blaine]

I have 16T front sprocket,carburetor has needle shim and 130 main jet,Hi-Flo air filter,and aftermarket exhaust.My bike pulls steadily from 60 kms in 5th gear.I never need to rev the bike out in 4th.I normally cruise at 110 to 115.I rarely need to down shift for any hills.But I only weigh 140 lbs.
http://www.postimage.org/templates/images/smiley/character/8.gif (http://www.postimage.org/)
Most of my riding is on the highway.

[alantf]

As has been said many, many, (MANY) times on here - use fifth gear as an overdrive. In most conditions, you will get more speed out of the bike in fourth - even though the engine is going around a lot more. I don't ride mine that much on the highway, but when I do I try to get it over 60-65 in fourth before I consider going to fifth. If there is any wind or incline I just leave it in fourth. Mine won't do 80, but if there is a tailwind and the road is flat I can hit 75 in fifth. Most of the time I have to content myself with fourth and 65 as there is no tailwind and the road has a grade.

There's something really weird going on here with the American bikes. With my European, I can change up into 5th at 60km/hr (37mph?) and can still accelerate up to 70 mph with no problem. When I'm joining the autopista (120 km/hr limit) from a 50 km/hr limit road, that's always how I do it. Accelerate to 60km/hr in 4th, change up to 5th, then continue accelerating in 5th, up to around 100/110 km/hr. BTW the handbook says to get into 5th at 60 km/h, & in this case, although it seems a low speed to you, it really does work on my GZ. :cry:

[Water Warrior 2]

Alantf, you may have a 2 fold benefit working for you . 1st you have the European carb settings. 2nd, you may have the benefit of being closer to sea level than most GZ riders. Something to think about.

[Easy Rider]

There's something really weird going on here with the American bikes. With my European, I can change up into 5th at 60km/hr (37mph?) and can still accelerate up to 70 mph with no problem.

It's partly the bikes but mostly, I think, the riders and the terrain.
While the acceleration might not be "quick", it is there.....unless you are going into a head wind or uphill. A windshield helps too.

I had a 16T front on mine and had no trouble getting on a 65 MPH Interstate.......but not around major metro areas that were heavily travellled......or hilly......or windy.

[diffluere]

On my travels Friday I checked, and yeah, I shift into second going 20mph. The noise is similar to the noise of going about 32 in 2nd gear. I don't have a tach so I have no idea what rpm that is.

The fastest I've been on the bike is about 75 but I've never TRIED to go faster than that. I'm usually with other people when I'm on highways that have a 65mph speed limit, and I don't really want to get a ticket! I haven't tried (nor desire to) go on I-75 on the GZ. I've been on a nice fast highway on a Ninja 250 though, and that was a piece of cake! It will do 80 before you even realize it.

[Easy Rider]

On my travels Friday I checked, and yeah, I shift into second going 20mph. The noise is similar to the noise of going about 32 in 2nd gear.

Both of those are probably too fast for prolonged engine life, serioiusly.
Your GZ can cruise comfortably in 3rd gear at 30 mph....or less.
Unless you are REALLY in a hurry, there is no good reason to push your engine that hard.

[zenbutcher]

Instead of shifting at 4-5000 rpms, I'll take it up to what I feel like is 6500 or more. Now, the little bike is screaming, but I'm coming around to the idea that motorcycle engines are meant to scream.

You're pushing the envelope. You might get away with it for a long time and you might NOT too.
Single and twin cylinder "long stroke" engines are NOT meant to "scream". Their most efficient power generation is with low to medium end torque.....not screaming horsepower.

If you want to see a small engine that IS designed for screaming high end horsepower, ride a Ninja 250 sometime. I think someone said that the red line was something like 14,000 rpm......and it will scream along at 12,000 all day long.

Like I mentioned before, we've only had two riders come here and report engine failures (not counting things like "no oil"). One liked to make it "scream" before every shift and the other ran his for long periods at 80 or slightly above. Since you seem to be doing both, I wouldn't want to give odds on the longevity of your engine. It was NOT designed to be riden that way.

Well, you're right on both accounts, Easy... I do rev the bike quite high and also cruise around 70 for extended periods (maybe only 20 minutes around town, but 2 hours if I'm on a trip). This is my first bike, so I may be making some mistakes. Thanks for the input.

[3-D Video]

[quote="diffluere"]On my travels Friday I checked, and yeah, I shift into second going 20mph. The noise is similar to the noise of going about 32 in 2nd gear. I don't have a tach so I have no idea what rpm that is.

I found the "Gearing Commander" site that pbro posted recently (http://www.gearingcommander.com/) to be useful to me as I learn more about my bike. It says that 20mph in first is about 6500 rpm, 31.4mph in second is about 6500 rpm, and that 65mph in fifth is, again, about 6500 rpm. 75mph is around 7500 rpm.

[Easy Rider]

and also cruise around 70 for extended periods (maybe only 20 minutes around town, but 2 hours if I'm on a trip).

I don't really think THAT is going to be a problem.
It's hard to push the GZ beyond it's limit (or even TO it) in top gear; even harder if you put on a 16T front sprocket.

[fg1234567892000]

You can, if the need arrises, run it for short distances in 4th about 55 (STEEP hills, which you don't have in Iowa except maybe Dubuque).

I tried this out when I rode home on the weekend. On the trip, there was a strong wind against me, so using 4th at this speed really helped me maintain my speed on hills, since even minor grades seemed to really sap my power.

On my return trip, I instead had a tail wind and did not need to shift out of 5th at all. Thank you for your tips; they were quite helpful. I guess I just never knew that power was available to me in 4th!

[diffluere]

I found the "Gearing Commander" site that pbro posted recently (http://www.gearingcommander.com/) to be useful to me as I learn more about my bike. It says that 20mph in first is about 6500 rpm, 31.4mph in second is about 6500 rpm, and that 65mph in fifth is, again, about 6500 rpm. 75mph is around 7500 rpm.

I noticed that too, and if redline is 9000 rpm is 6500 really that bad?

Also, today I rode with a friend all day. We both gassed up at the same time, but at the end of the ride her trip meter was at 140 miles and I was at 137. Maybe the slight error in my speedometer is affecting what speed I "think" I'm shifting at? Probably not a significant amount but who knows...Either way my bike doesn't sound like I'm killing it when I shift. It might help that I only weigh 125 and I'm in Florida, land of the flat straight roads.

[alantf]

her trip meter was at 140 miles and I was at 137. .

If my maths is correct, that's just over 2% difference, so at 50 mph that's 1 mph difference, at 25 mph thats ½ mph difference. I don't think that those figures will make any significant difference.

BTW don't think that this 2% difference can only be a difference in speedo accuracy. If she takes the curves wider than you, or weaves while you're riding straight, then this could account for the 3 mile difference in 140 miles. :2tup:

I've noticed a difference in the "going to" & "coming back from" mileage, due to right hand curves (going) versus left hand curves (coming back) or vice versa.

[Easy Rider]

I noticed that too, and if redline is 9000 rpm is 6500 really that bad?


How did we get up to 9000? I thought the most quoted figure was 8500 ?? .......which is the rev. limiter point and not a conventional "red line".

Anyhow, the thing IS that in the lower gears where the revs increase rapidly, IF you are in the habit of reving it high (6500) and something distracts you.....or your habit slowly increases as you get more comfortable with the sound......then you can rapidly hit 7000....or 7500....and the higher it goes, the more likely of a stress related failure. In 5th gear, it's hard to over-rev even if you try.

[ncff07]

Ive been shifting like I would in a car, tried letting it wind up more before shifting yesterday when I was out on it and it actually does better with more RPM's between shifting.

[Easy Rider]

Ive been shifting like I would in a car, tried letting it wind up more before shifting yesterday when I was out on it and it actually does better with more RPM's between shifting.

We wouldn't lie to you, now would we ?? :crackup

It does even BETTER with a 16 Tooth front sprocket. :biggrin:

[ncff07]

Ive been shifting like I would in a car, tried letting it wind up more before shifting yesterday when I was out on it and it actually does better with more RPM's between shifting.

We wouldn't lie to you, now would we ?? :crackup

It does even BETTER with a 16 Tooth front sprocket. :biggrin:

A 16t sprocket is next on the list. I'm suppose to be getting my Suzuki sissybar today I ordered hopefully I'll get it on tommorow sometime. :2tup:

[diffluere]

Makes sense. Thanks guys, I will try to be more careful in first gear. =)

I was joking with my friend that she takes curves wider than I do, and she said "no way that will make a difference!" but it seems like it does. Again, my favorite phrase - ya'll are so smart!

[Easy Rider]

ya'll are so smart!

And we're cute and cuddly too !! :biggrin:

[ncff07]

ya'll are so smart!

And we're cute and cuddly too !! :biggrin:

:skeptical:

[diffluere]

Yeah, the way porcupines are cute and cuddly...

[Zackman]

Yeah, the way porcupines are cute and cuddly...

:haha2: :haha2: :haha2:


Oh and the technique works very well. I also found it useful when going uphill and against the wind... :)

[Easy Rider]

Yeah, the way porcupines are cute and cuddly...

Aw shucks. You told me that you wouldn't tell........... :cry: :crackup

[Pete7874]

And, fyi, for the new owners, dropping an ounce of carb cleaner every other tank or so has really helped with the power as well.

Which specific carb cleaner additives can you guys recommend? Is Techron Concentrate OK to use? I use it in my cars sometimes.

[blaine]

Which specific carb cleaner additives can you guys recommend? Is Techron Concentrate OK to use? I use it in my cars sometimes.


Should be just fine,just follow the directions.The top two additives are SEA-FOAM & BERRYMANS B12.I personally have good luck with SEA-FOAM. :) :2tup:

[cayuse]

I don't have a tach (yet) and I've never been sure of my rpm's so I thought I would exercise the noodle and came up with these charts.

There are some interesting figures here:
It confirms the tach results some are reporting in 5th gear: rpm's are ~10x mph
If you want to hear 8000rpm's go to 50mph in 3rd gear (!)
Seems to be OK, at least for short periods, to go 65mph in 4th (ie redline is just below 70mph)
Stepping up to 16-tooth gearing will bring you down below peak HP and torque at 70mph so don't expect to go faster with that mod.
I've always been impressed with the accel I get with this little motor when I let it wind out a little. Now, I've got some peace of mind that I'm not over-revving.

http://s2.postimage.org/L1Og9.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2nhqri0ys/)

http://s4.postimage.org/HITiA.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2grbzjrhg/)

[alanmcorcoran]

Thanks for info. I regularly do 65 mph in fourth. In most of my driving conditions, fourth is the only gear I can hold speeds above 60. I have no tach on my Geezer either. I sort of figured - if it don't blow up, I guess it's ok, which is obviously not a recommended form of figurin'.

[Pete7874]

alanmcorcoran, how much do you weigh? I can hold 70 mph in 5th rather easily on flat ground if there is no strong headwind. I weigh 150 lbs though.

[cayuse]

Size has something to do with it, too. At max speeds your drag coefficient is going to matter a lot more than your mass. If you are heavier it will take longer for your 20hp to get you up to speed but if you are taller in the saddle and lighter then that max speed will be less, because of the extra wind drag from the taller rider. Pete, I think you'll find if you could put 50 lbs of lead in your tank bag you would still hold 70mph because your wind resistance won't be any different, yet your 'weight' would be 200lb.

[alanmcorcoran]

alanmcorcoran, how much do you weigh? I can hold 70 mph in 5th rather easily on flat ground if there is no strong headwind. I weigh 150 lbs though.

I was 185-190 when I bought the Geezer, but I'm now 155-ish. If the road is flat and no head wind, I might be able to hold 65 in 5th. I live in Anaheim Hills where it is neither flat nor wind free. I'm located near the Santa Ana Mountains which are known locally for the "Santa Ana" winds, and nationally for being on fire every fall. Although there are flat areas to be found, in general you are usually dealing with some sort of grade, and wind is pretty common.

Also, I have a large windshield and saddlebags, neither of which help with top end speed.