oil change

[johnd]

Hi Forum,

I have been pretty much away since February due to health problems. I had back surgery a month ago, and am slowly coming along.

My 2000 GZ250 has been in the garage most of the winter and only started a few times since February. Today was a test ride (about 10 miles each way) to the Suzuki (Honda, Yamaha) Dealer for an oil and filter change as I cannot do it myself at this time; plus the inspection date is nearly due. My bike has 2173 miles on it.

This is my experience, and although minor, I just thought I would share. The work order wrote it up as two cylinders. Reckon the computer will not print one cylinder? The tech/mechanic told me it was running rough and would clean the carbureator for $82.50 hourly fee. I declined, remembering my can of SeaFoam in the garage. After the oil change and inspection the bike was brought back to the customer area. The fuel selector was left on Prime. It sort of makes you wonder. I was looking at all those gigantic bikes in the show room, and listening to that wonderful exhaust tone as they went by, then I started looking at the price tags. Having ridden it very little, I still think for what it is, the GZ is a great little bike.

On the way home I bought fuel and when arrived it did run much smoother. I am still going to add the SeaFoam.

Best to all,
John D

[Water Warrior 2]

Sounds like the back surgery was a success, hope you heal well with no future complications. As for the bike you probably did the right thing. It just needs some stuff in the tank and some exercise out on the street to clear out the cobwebs. Ride Safe.

[ncff07]

Im my experiences some mechanics cant be trusted. Not meaning just bike dealers/shops but auto garages too. The suzuki/yamaha/kawa dealers shop has done good so far. I just got the bike and did some work but let them adjust the chain since Im new to bikes and wont touch something till im comfortable with it. Since it was just a chain adjustment the service manager just quoted me $10 instead of the half hour/ hourly fee. Noticed your from Charlotte I was at the meet in Lincolnton a couple weeks ago about an hour north of Charlotte.

[dhgeyer]

You wouldn't believe some of the dumb, careless, ridiculous things techs have done to my bikes on many occasions. I am absolutely convinced that the best way to get good service is to learn to do as much as you can yourself.

[blaine]

You wouldn't believe some of the dumb, careless, ridiculous things techs have done to my bikes on many occasions. I am absolutely convinced that the best way to get good service is to learn to do as much as you can yourself.
:plus1: :plus1:

[5th_bike]

You wouldn't believe some of the dumb, careless, ridiculous things techs have done to my bikes on many occasions. I am absolutely convinced that the best way to get good service is to learn to do as much as you can yourself.

I agree with this unanimously.

Oil & filter change, chain cleaning & oiling - no problem.
Grease or oil at some necessary points, check tightness of bolts, check valves - piece of cake.
Fixing electrical problems, setting valves, changing brake pads and flushing the brake fluid - new things I learned on the way.

The only things I had the shop do were:
1) change reflectors (there was a recall).
2) put a new tube in the rear wheel.
I will also have them put new tires on, when the time is there. Just can't seem to get the tire off the rim with those flimsy bicycle tire lifters.

[GZ250]

all dealers (bikes or cars) cheat. the dealerships make more money in the service area than they make from selling the machnes. and this is a universal attitude or response from a mechanic that they they will tell you one or two new thing sthat need to be replaced or changed.

last time i was in the shop for valve clearence the mechanic told me the 3rd gear is missing and i need new clutch plates.. i told me ok and thanks and i am still with the same plates after a year.

in Oct 09, got new tries and the mechanic told me its good time to replace front brake pads and save the service chanrge as the tire is already out. the old pads are still working and i change the pads myself anyway.

be SMART and have some knowledge about your problem and talk straight with dealers.

[dhgeyer]

Recent experiences with my new 2009 BMW R1200R, (purchased 1/20/2010) and dealers:

I had Max's BMW in North Hampton NH do the 600 mile service, as this is good strategy if I later need warranty service, or so I was told. They overfilled the engine oil by 8 ounces, which could have caused a seal failure had I not caught it and drained the excess. Final drive failures are a known issue with these bikes, and replacing the fluid at the 600 mile service is important. The factory ships the bikes with a larger quantity of a different lubricant for the first 600 miles. They didn't do the final drive service at 600 miles, although they did charge me for it. I am sure of this, because I changed the fluid at 3900 miles, and what came out was the larger amount of the original type of fluid.

The fuel level sensor strip (they don't use a float anymore) failed at 1500 miles. I took it to Max's for the warranty replacement. I had to take it back twice, as the one they had in stock the first time was bad also, and they had to order one. That wasn't their fault. This job requires removing the tank, the fuel pump, sensors, and I felt it was a bit beyond me at this time. They did the job, but forgot to hook up two hoses to the front of the tank. I rode around with it like that for quite a while, as it wasn't obvious given the location of the hoses and hookups under front of the tank. After I discovered this, and doing some research, I discovered that no real harm was done, but it's sloppy workmanship.

Before I went on my long trip, I did a full tune-up and changed the fluids and oil filter. I forgot to reset the service reminder (my bad). After a few thousand miles it got annoying. I stopped at Grand Junction Harley-Davidson/BMW/Buell in Grand Junction, CO. They were very accommodating, and did it right away. Resetting the service reminder is done by computer via an interface plug under the seat. This plug sits in a little cradle, and has a protective cap (cover) that twists on it. It's a very simple procedure, and shouldn't take more than 5 minutes. The tech had the bike way too long to just do the simple service reminder reset. I should have been suspicious. When I got the bike back the service reminder was reset, but so was the clock. I don't think this guy knew what he was doing. When I got back to my motel, which was thankfully right around the corner, I found the protective cap for the computer interface plug sitting in a recess on my saddlebag! Removing the seat, I found the interface plug dangling by its wires.

I picked up a screw in my rear tire somewhere in Utah. I plugged it and rode it for another 2000 miles with no problems. But, being a cautious type, I took it to BMW Motorcycles of Denver (actually in Aurora) on the way back for an oil and filter change, and had a new rear tire installed. The idiots put the wrong weight oil in the bike. I had to change it myself the next day on the floor of a friend's garage. Thankfully I had the tools I needed, and wasn't staying in a motel that night. They charged me $110.00 for the oil/filter change, and would have charged me the same again if I had taken it back to get the right oil put in. I thought they had done the tire change correctly, but only yesterday I had occasion to remove the rear wheel, and found that they had way over-torqued the lug bolts (the R1200R has a single sided swingarm, and the rear wheel mounts like a car wheel except it has lug bolts instead of studs and lug nuts).

So far, in about 5 months and 11,200 miles I've had the bike at three reputable dealership service departments, and have yet to have one of them complete a job without screwing something up. And these are BMW dealerships. I've done several services on the bike, and installed several accessories. So far my only screw up is that I forgot to reset the service reminder before my trip.

I have literally dozens of stories like this for other bikes I have owned in the last 8 years and taken to several local shops. I could write a book! There is one local Kawasaki dealership I more or less trust, and one independent BMW mechanic that works in his converted garage. Other than that, I have not had good luck.

[Easy Rider]

The idiots put the wrong weight oil in the bike.

How did you find that out......and how "wrong" was it ??

You know, I hope, that a slight difference in the viscosity rating (which is not exactly the same thing as "weight") is really not that important.

What I am trying to say is: If the numbers weren't much different, your time and effort and money were probably wasted as whatever they put in there would have been just fine.

[dhgeyer]

What I am trying to say is: If the numbers weren't much different, your time and effort and money were probably wasted as whatever they put in there would have been just fine.

The dealership is about 16 miles from the home where I was staying. On the way back to the house I noticed 2 things: 1) The bike was running hotter than it ever had (temp gauge) and 2) It wasn't running as smoothly as it always has. I suspected a lighter weight oil (sorry, that's a term so many people use, I think everyone knows what I mean, and I'm used to it). I called the dealership service dept. and asked what they put in it. They told me it was 10w40. They told me that they buy it in bulk, and that's all they use unless specifically asked to do otherwise.

BMW specifies several weights of single/multi-weight oil as acceptable within certain temperature ranges. The normal oil for that engine is 20w50, and is specified as acceptable at all temperatures above 0 degrees Fahrenheit. It is generally known in the BMW community that 20w50 is the default petro based oil for oilheads and hexheads. Some people use 10w40 in the Winter, some don't. I never have.

BMW specifies 10w40 as acceptable up to 84 degrees. I told them several times that I was on a cross country ride, and anyone with a lick of sense would know that I would be riding in temps above 84 degrees. Remember, they did this oil change at the beginning of Summer, basically.

I called a couple of the dealers here and asked an opinion. They told me that I could probably get away with the 10w40 for around town riding with only me on the bike. They strongly suggested that I change to the correct oil, given that I was running at highway speeds fully loaded.

I may or may not have damaged my engine if I had left the 10w40 in it, or I may have just caused accelerated wear and tear. In any case, I didn't like the way it was running. There was a very noticeable difference in the way it felt, and it was running measurably hotter. As soon as I put the right oil in the bike, it went back to running more smoothly and cooler.

To be precise, the BMW hexheads are oil cooled with a thermostat controlling the oil cooler. They are designed to run, not just within a certain temp range, but at a specific temperature. It is marked on the temp gauge. My bike has always run at precisely that temperature once warmed up. German precision. It has never before or since run so much as one block hotter or cooler, so running a couple of blocks (on the digital gauge) hotter is significant and not desirable.

If they had put 10w40 in the bike in the Fall or Winter, I would not have faulted them, or used strong language like "the wrong oil". But BMW writes the specs, and what the dealership put in was not up to spec for the conditions I would be riding in, and if they didn't know that they should have.

[Easy Rider]

To be precise, the BMW hexheads are oil cooled with a thermostat controlling the oil cooler.

Oops. Forgot what we were talking about there for a minute.
Carry on.

For MOST bikes.....cars.....and trucks, it certainly wouldn't make that much difference.
Air head Harleys might be another exception though.

I doubt that the requirements are that tight for the water cooled Beemers either.

[dhgeyer]

To be precise, the BMW hexheads are oil cooled with a thermostat controlling the oil cooler.

Oops. Forgot what we were talking about there for a minute.
Carry on.

For MOST bikes.....cars.....and trucks, it certainly wouldn't make that much difference.
Air head Harleys might be another exception though.

I doubt that the requirements are that tight for the water cooled Beemers either.

What you say is true. Don't know about the Harley's, but I had a liquid cooled Beemer ('91 K75SA) for a while, and it wasn't as fussy about a number of things, including oil. Rode that bike to New Orleans in 2004. It was a great bike, but I like the R1200R better, even though it takes a lot of TLC. If I treat it right, it will reward me with hundreds of thousands of miles. If I don't get too old first, which I probably will.

[Water Warrior 2]

I'll bet the dealer makes a pot full of profit buying oil in bulk and selling it by the quart with a quart price tag. Sounds like a universal oil that fits almost everything coming in the door. Did they at least have the courage to tell you what brand of oil they were buying in bulk ??

[dhgeyer]

I'll bet the dealer makes a pot full of profit buying oil in bulk and selling it by the quart with a quart price tag. Sounds like a universal oil that fits almost everything coming in the door. Did they at least have the courage to tell you what brand of oil they were buying in bulk ??

Oh, I'm sure that's why they do it that way. I didn't think to ask about the brand. And they charge more for labor than any place I've dealt with. $110.00 for an oil and filter change. It's an easy job. Unscrew the plug, unscrew the filter - both easily accessible, install new crush washer, screw on new oil filter and reinstall the plug, fill with 4 liters of oil. You don't even need a funnel - the fill hole is on the top of the left cylinder. With a lift and all the tools handy, I can't imagine it taking more than 15 minutes.

If the oil was appropriate for everything coming in the door it wouldn't be a bad thing. The problem is, it's not. If it weren't a BMW dealership it would be OK, and I think a lot of the Jap bike dealers do it that way and it's fine. Like Easy says, for most bikes it's not a problem.

[bonehead]

My 2 cents: I use 10-40in the cooler months(winter in tx) and change to 20-50 in the summer.

[Easy Rider]

My 2 cents: I use 10-40in the cooler months(winter in tx) and change to 20-50 in the summer.

If you are doing that with a water cooled engine, it probably isn't necessary.......especially if you are changing because of the season and not because of mileage.

Anything with a 50 in it is almost never "needed" in a water coolded engine......even it Texas.

Now, if you need to change it mid-season anyway because of mileage then..........never mind. :biggrin:

[bonehead]

My 2 cents: I use 10-40in the cooler months(winter in tx) and change to 20-50 in the summer.

If you are doing that with a water cooled engine, it probably isn't necessary.......especially if you are changing because of the season and not because of mileage.

Anything with a 50 in it is almost never "needed" in a water coolded engine......even it Texas.

Now, if you need to change it mid-season anyway because of mileage then..........never mind. :biggrin:
No that's in my GZ.

[Easy Rider]

No that's in my GZ.

I think I remember the chart in the GZ manual indicating that for it, the 40 is good up to just about 100 F.......and as a practical matter, probably more than that for short trips.

The other side of the coin IS that the 20W50 would probably be just fine for you year round; the 20 indicating that it acts like a 20W in the cold.....for those 5 days or so that it really GETS cold there !! :biggrin:

So, are you changing it just because of outside temp.........or because of mileage ??

[bonehead]

It was more like 15 days this year!
Just a personal preference. Lighter below 50f and a little heavier during the hot.
And you're right, I probably could keep 20-50 in all year, but in my head it seems to help the performance to switch during the 2 seasons we have down here. :)

[Easy Rider]

but in my head it seems to help the performance

That's good. Glad to hear that there is SOMETHING in there !! :shocked: :crackup

(Sorry, that was bad....but it was just too good a line to pass up!!) :biggrin: