Jumping

[ncff07]

I've searched the boards and didn't see anything specifically to this so I'll post it. I'm still learning on my bike and have done some stuff to it but I'm stumped here. When I start it I do so out of gear most of the time unless I leave it in gear parked somewhere other than home. Ive noticed when I get on and ready to go when I put it down into first gear it will jump for just a second then be fine. Also noticed the times Ive been somewhere and left it in gear parking once I start it back up it will jump then too. With the clutch lever all the way in and in gear it will roll freely either way theres no friction whatsoever there. I did adjust the cable to within specs and it still does it but in gear and the clutch disengaged its still free. Any ideas?

[blaine]

Sometimes if the oil is to heavy,or is above the full mark it will cause the condition you describe.

[Water Warrior 2]

This is a common occurance and nothing to worry about. All specs and levels can be perfect and jumping will still happen in the majority of bikes. This is due to the design of the bike and nothing more. The cause is dragging clutch plates and cold oil on start up, no biggy.

[Easy Rider]

Any ideas?

Absolutely 100% normal.
The "wet" clutch has a fluid coupling effect when the oil is cold.....and then the transmission parts will spin freely when hot.
Nothing to worry about.

[ncff07]

Good. Thanks. Im still learning and have a long way to go!

[Viirin]

turning down your idle might reduce the jump...but i don't think you can stop it

vii

[alantf]

turning down your idle might reduce the jump...



...... but ONLY if it's too high to start with, & you'll only be able to check that when the engine's THOROUGHLY warmed up. :)

[Water Warrior 2]

turning down your idle might reduce the jump...



...... but ONLY if it's too high to start with, & you'll only be able to check that when the engine's THOROUGHLY warmed up. :)
For sure, don't have the idle too low or you may have other problems show up. Not enough oiling at idle speeds, the tranny and clutch need a certain amount of internal spin to engage properly. Nor will the engine breath well enough to run properly.
After a cold start you may want to have the tranny in neutral and pull/release the clutch a few times to free up the clutch plates. Different brands of oil might make a slight difference too but then we get into splitting hairs and all sorts of nonsense when any good oil will get the job done.

[ncff07]

I think the idle is fine, not too high and not too low. As far as i know its still set the same from the factory with less than 1200 miles too. No blueing on the exhaust either and im leery of messing with the idle just yet. The oil level as someone mentioned is fine I changed that after i got it and its within spec and the oil i used is Suzuki 10/30 motorcycle oil i got from the dealer when i ordered the filter and o rings. I'll try working the clutch in neutral and see what happens there. But if that slight jump is present in most of these bikes Im not going to worry about it much.

[alantf]

I think the idle is fine, not too high and not too low. As far as i know its still set the same from the factory

Factory setting is nothing to go by, & for all I know it could have shifted adjustment in transit. If you look under the carb, you'll see a big white knob. When the engine is THOROUGHLY warmed up, don't be afraid to twiddle it until you get it set to your liking. Don't forget that the Suzuki spec of 1200 - 1400 RPM (at idle) is your starting point. :2tup:

[Water Warrior 2]

10-30 Suzuki motorcycle oil ?? I can't recall ever seeing a 10-30 motorcycle oil. But I have never looked for it either. lol.

[ncff07]

10-30 Suzuki motorcycle oil ?? I can't recall ever seeing a 10-30 motorcycle oil. But I have never looked for it either. lol.

Sorry my bad not 10-30 its 10-40. And yes Suzuki bike oil I got it from the dealer.

http://s2.postimage.org/iQXT9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsiQXT9)

[alantf]

Suzuki bike oil I got it from the dealer.



Is it the same price as "ordinary" 10/40 oil, or is it a Suzuki rip off? :)

[blaine]

Suzuki bike oil I got it from the dealer.



Is it the same price as "ordinary" 10/40 oil, or is it a Suzuki rip off? :)

Do not use" ordinary" oil as most of them have friction modifiers that will ruin your clutch.If the oil says "energy-conserving" on the bottle,don't use it.A lot of people use "rotella-t" oil.I like to use the motorcycle specific oil to be on the safe side.The bike only holds 1300 mls, any savings would be minimal. :2tup: :rawk:

[alantf]

Suzuki bike oil I got it from the dealer.



Is it the same price as "ordinary" 10/40 oil, or is it a Suzuki rip off? :)

(1)Do not use" ordinary" oil as most of them have friction modifiers that will ruin your clutch.(2) any savings would be minimal.

(1) When I said "ordinary" it went without saying that I meant "without additives". It tells you that, quite clearly, in the owners manual.
(2) Not if it IS a Suzuki rip off. But I don't know if it is a rip off or not. That's why I was asking.

[ncff07]

Its more expensive than regular CAR oil but like someone said Im not taking any chances with my bike. Castrol oil I use in my truck is less than $3 a quart. The Suzuki 10-40 bike oil is $6 a quart. Synthetic 10-40 bike oil is over $12 a quart.

[bonehead]

Its more expensive than regular CAR oil but like someone said Im not taking any chances with my bike. Castrol oil I use in my truck is less than $3 a quart. The Suzuki 10-40 bike oil is $6 a quart. Synthetic 10-40 bike oil is over $12 a quart.
Been using castrol gt in my bike since first oil change. No problems.
Only oil I use. :2tup:

[Easy Rider]

Been using castrol gt in my bike since first oil change. No problems.


Maybe you should add the word YET to the end of that sentence.

The latest oil standards allows for the addition of some "friction modifier" to the formula of auto oils without showing that on the label.

The formulation of your car oil may change without you knowing it.
Your clutch may suffer.

[bonehead]

Been using castrol gt in my bike since first oil change. No problems.


Maybe you should add the word YET to the end of that sentence.

18,000 miles. I think is ok.

[Easy Rider]

Been using castrol gt in my bike since first oil change. No problems.

Maybe you should add the word YET to the end of that sentence.

18,000 miles. I think is ok.

Let's try this again.

I absolutely believe that the "old" Castrol was perfectly fine for your bike.....18 miles or 180,000......whatever.

The point IS that they may change the formulation tomorrow and not tell you.......and it might damage your clutch.

It is a gamble; a small one maybe but still a gamble.

[bonehead]

So far so good. :2tup:

[ncff07]

Castrol DOES have additives. I initially was going to use it for my bike and bought 2 quarts to use but then read on here about additives being a no no and a bad thing in a bike. I grabbed one of those quarts and begin reading the back and it DOES say it has certain things added to it so I scratched that idea and got bike oil from the dealer. If its gonna be 18 or 18000 miles later and it starts causing a problem I dont care if theres a chance of it hurting something Im not gonna do it.

[bonehead]

Oh shit, by bike just blew up. Must have been that oil.

[Easy Rider]

Castrol DOES have additives.

EVERY motor oil has "additives".
It is only the "friction modifiers", making the oil super-slick that cause the problem for wet clutches. Those used to require an "energy conserving" seal on the label. That is not required anymore.

[Easy Rider]

Oh shit, by bike just blew up. Must have been that oil.

Do try NOT to be a douche, OK !! :poke2:

[bonehead]

Oh shit, by bike just blew up. Must have been that oil.

Do try NOT to be a douche, OK !! :poke2:
Tacky, I admit. Sorry.
The castrol 20/50 is not energy cons. oil.
And you are right. All oil starts out from a base and the manufacturers add in their own little concotion of additives to make it their brand, just like gasoline.

Live long, ride hard. :rawk:

[Easy Rider]

Tacky, I admit. Sorry.


No problem. Sounded pretty much like something **I** would say, if the positions were reversed !! :roll: :crackup

[ncff07]

To each their own. Just saying I'll stick to whats known to be ok for it cause(as ive said before) Im still learning on it and tend to err on the side of caution with my vehicles is all. Or maybe Im paranoid :neener:

[bonehead]

There's a little circle on the back of the oil bottles. In the bottom half it will read "energy conserving" or not. FYI

[Easy Rider]

There's a little circle on the back of the oil bottles. In the bottom half it will read "energy conserving" or not. FYI

That was the case.......IN THE PAST.
In the future, it might NOT be true.

This was discussed at length in another forum I frequent. It included input from one of the major oil makers.....Valvoline, IIRC.

The latest standards, SL/SM I think, allows the addition of some friction modifiers WITHOUT noting that on the label.
So, in the future, you may not know for sure if auto oil is safe for your wet clutch or not.

[alantf]

There's a little circle on the back of the oil bottles. In the bottom half it will read "energy conserving" or not. FYI

I wish they'd change the handbook then, if they don't have to put it on the bottle. My 2007 handbook (even though it's in Spanish) shows the circle, with the words in English. The centre of the two concentric circles has "SAE 10W-40" then the top of the outer circle has "API SERVICE SJ". That is "Recomendado" If it's got "ENERGY CONSERVING" at the bottom of the outer circle, it's "No recomendado"

[Easy Rider]

[the top of the outer circle has "API SERVICE SJ". That is "Recomendado" If it's got "ENERGY CONSERVING" at the bottom of the outer circle, it's "No recomendado"

The standards were last revised in 2009, I think.

If "SJ" is the latest MOTORCYCLE standard (big if 'cause I don't know what the latest bike standard IS)
then it's a little silly because a motorcycle oil will NEVER have "energy conserving" additives.

If SJ is a cage standard, then point well taken, and it will be interesting to see if the bike makers are even aware of the potential problem.

The old assumption of "SJ" or higher may not apply anymore.

[dhgeyer]

With a multi-plate wet clutch (most motorcycles) the oil, when cold especially, causes the plates to stick together to a degree. The colder the ambient temperature, the more this will happen. Heavier weight oil tends to do this more, also. How the clutch is adjusted (both internally and externally), spring tension, clutch design, and other factors can increase or decrease this happening as well.

When I had a Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic FI, and started it up in the Winter, when I went to put it in gear the clutch stuck so bad that it tried to take the bike right out from under me, and stalled the engine.

I found that one way to break the sticking on cold starts is to put the bike in first before starting it, pull in the clutch lever, and rock the bike until it moves freely. Any amount of jump you get after that is harmless.

Bikes with multi-plate wet clutches are designed to run with motorcycle oil, which has, in addition to other designations, the "MA" classification, usually printed quite large on the bottle somewhere. Lots of people run non motorcycle oil in these bikes, and some have trouble and some don't. If you do have trouble, it will be with the clutch slipping when fully engaged, which will ruin it very quickly.

I have always run motorcycle oil in bikes with multi-plate wet clutches, but that's my personal decision. It does cost more, but, given how often the oil needs to be changed and the actual difference, I don't think it's an unwarranted expense. I'm not disagreeing with anyone else who makes a different choice.

[Water Warrior 2]

We also have to remember that the engine oil also lubes the tranny. There are shear forces involved when gears are turning and can quickly destroy some of the oils capabilities. M/C specific oils will have a greater shear characteristic for long life service. Amsoil M/C oil has a shear characteristic of a 90 weight gear oil which is great. I don't know what Shell Rotella is but it must be pretty good if it lives in a Cummins equiped Dodge Ram. Works nice is my Ranger too.

[alantf]

Just checked my handbook again ....... It says, if using API classification use SF or SG - or - SH or SJ. If using JASO classification use MA. (JASO is the Jap equivalent of API)