Please help me get my bike started

[jake]

I have a 2005 that's been sitting in my garage for 2 1/2 yrs. Got it to learn on and illness side tracked me. Have no way to get it to the shop so…I got a new battery, drained the gas and carb, put in fresh gas with some seafoam. Got it to start a couple times but only would run about 30 secs tops. Got all safety garbed up to try to get it to move but couldnt get it started again. Would chug chug chug but no fire. Did the spark plug test and saw the spark. Messed with draining the carb bowl thru the screw and some little green stuff came out in the gas. Probably flooded the carb at some point cause gas came out of the overflow. Things only got worse as it wouldn't chug chug chug anymore, wouldn't click when I push the start button and failed the spark plug test. Then I noticed the neutral light wasn't on. Battery dead or very low. What????? Left it alone and the next morning battery had charge but seems to die out after and few clicks of the start button- then back to nothing. What do I do now?? Thought I'd take the battery back to have it tested? Help?!???!

[blaine]

Your battery needs to be put on a 2 amp charger till battery is fully charged.Your carburetor sounds like it is really dirty and should be dissembled and cleaned.EDIT:If you can get it to run with fully charged battery the seafoam might do the trick.

[Easy Rider]

Your battery needs to be put on a 2 amp charger till battery is fully charged.Your carburetor sounds like it is really dirty and should be dissembled and cleaned.EDIT:If you can get it to run with fully charged battery the seafoam might do the trick.

:plus1:

The battery charge might take as long as 10 hours.
You might want to drain the tank AGAIN now that the Seafoam has been in there a while.
Might want to put a new plug in too.
A little shot of starting fluid might help get it running.
Use about 3/4 choke and NO THROTTLE.

Seafoam is OK for routine use but for heavy duty cleaning, I like Berryman's B12 Chemtool better......in a case like yours, at about twice the recommended dose. I would NOT, however, mix it with Seafoam.

[jake]

Thanks for the tips. Since it's obvious Im pretty clueless about all of this, I won't feel embarrassed to ask, where does the starting fluid go? As descriptive as possible please. :)

[magnum44270]

take out your spark plug, give a little squirt in the hole. replace spark plug and everything else. and try to start

[New GZ250]

Starting fluid, I've always sprayed it directly in to the carb. Think if you put in spark plug hole, it would evaporate by the time you get the plug back in. Spray in carb while cranking the motor over. (Pushing the starter button) "Always" worked for me! My starter fluid always was in an aerosol can, couldn't pour any where. Basically, or in the old days, it was ether.

[magnum44270]

that too. on other bikes, the plugs are a little easier to get at.

[magnum44270]

i would just caution, its use. a little goes a long way, and a lot could be a problem

[blaine]

i would just caution, its use. a little goes a long way, and a lot could be a problem


Be careful with the starting fluid.It is not good for your engine,use it only as a last resort.

[Easy Rider]

take out your spark plug, give a little squirt in the hole. replace spark plug and everything else. and try to start

Arrrrgggghhhh.....where did you get your mechanics training, Disney World ??? :roll:

Seriously, if you don't have actual knowledge of a given subject, you should NOT GUESS. That can sometimes be dangerous. :shocked:

I haven't read the label instructions lately but I'm REAL sure that squirting it into the cylinder directly through a plug hole is NOT one of the suggested uses.

Starting fluid usually is ether. HIGHLY volitile. It is intended to be used by spraying a small amount, like a 1 sec. spray, into the AIR CLEANER......with everything assembled in working order. Then you try to start it as normal.

It will sometimes "help" the engine run if it isn't getting enough fuel via the normal channel. If your timing is good enough, you can repeat little sprays and keep the engine running for a while........a SHORT while, like 30 seconds or less, during which time you hope the "regular" process takes over and it runs on it's own.

[magnum44270]

yes disney world :retard:
works on the ironhead :roll:

[Water Warrior 2]

If no ether or starting fluid is handy, try some Coleman white gas. That stuff does not have near enough warning stickers. It is volatile as all hell but will work swimmingly. Use it sparingly as a little goes a long way.

[mrlmd1]

Why can't you dump some Seafoam or Berryman's into the carb to soak it while the battery is charging, and then drain it out before you attempt to start the bike instead of fooling with starting fluid?

[magnum44270]

ya i say stay away from starting fluid, that stuff is potent! . last resort

[blaine]

ya i say stay away from starting fluid, that stuff is potent! . last resort


Are you not the one that said to squirt it in the spark plug hole?

[magnum44270]

i sure did! it works for me when all else fails.
i also said use it with caution right after that.
to each his own.

[jake]

Wow. Didn't mean to start things up with the starter fluid question. I think I'll start with getting the battery checked out and maybe draining some gas. I'm sure I'll be back with "what do I do now"....thanks everyone!!

[Easy Rider]

i sure did! it works for me when all else fails.
i also said use it with caution right after that.
to each his own.

Ok, here's the thing:
There are "to each his own" options and then there are things that are downright dangerous and ....mmmm...ill-advised.
Putting ether directly into a plug hole is one of those ill-advised things (sometimes called stupid!). :biggrin:

You probably aren't old enough to remember when the big trucks were changing over from gas to diesel but THAT is when starting fluid became widely available. Diesels do NOT like to start in really cold weather. Alas, the not-so-bright truckers thought that if a little squirt was good, then a BIG charge would be even better. WRONG. Pistons blew and owners were NOT happy.
The SAME thing can happen to a bike if you get too much of it in the combustion chamber.

I was not just ragging on you to have somethin to occupy my time. It IS a dangerous thing to do ......for the machine and the operator.

[blaine]

We are just trying to give you the best info we can.Keep posting your questions and we will try to answer.

[jake]

Ok. I took my new battery back, apparently it was bad, wasn't holding the charge, whatever. Hopefully it wasn't something with my bike that did it. Have a new new battery now and my bike started right up and ran (tentatively) for about 30 seconds when I realized I didn't have the choke on. Giving it some choke killed the engine. Now I can't get it to start again. Replaced the spark plug. Drained more gas from the carb, (out of the screw, is that the right way?) which actually looks quite clean now. Hesitant to drain the tank again because I don't have anything to put it in but will if you guys think it will get me started. Does gas coming out of the carb overflow when on prime mean I'm floading the carb for is something blocked? Only happens on prime but is that normal? Haven't gotten any starter fluid yet, was hoping a good battery would do the trick. And how long and often can you hold that starter button before you burn it out?!? Thanks everyone!




G

[Easy Rider]

Does gas coming out of the carb overflow when on prime mean I'm floading the carb for is something blocked? Only happens on prime but is that normal?

And how long and often can you hold that starter button before you burn it out?!?


Gas coming out the overflow means that the float/needle valve inside the carb is not working right.
The vacume operated cutoff in the petcock will not allow gas to flow in ON or RES if the engine is not running.
PRIme allows gas to flow all the time. The float/needle valve is supposed to shut it off when the bowl gets full.

When the engine does run, the extra gas is probably going into the engine; NOT GOOD.

You can run the starter for about 5 seconds on then 5 seconds off BUT you need to STOP trying to start it until you can put it on PRIme and NOT have gas leak out. That probably means a manual carb cleaning; about $150 at a dealer.

[mrlmd1]

Either get yourself an owner's manual and read it (you can download it on here), get a basic book from the library about how engines work and read it, get a knowledgeable friend to help you, or sell your bike.
You keep jumping around all over the place and will never get it started if you keep randomly messing with it hoping something good will happen.

First off- if the bike started and was running, why did you want to put on the choke? You don't need it all the time, mostly when it's cold, and I'm sure where you are, it's not. It's not an automatic thing to have to do, if it starts without it, great.

Why are you leaving it on prime? Do you know what that does and when you need it?
The carb is flooded and probably dirty - you never did the Seafoam/Berryman's thing did you?

And I hope you charged up the new battery before using it, otherwise you will be back in the battery shop for another one in a day or two.
5-10 sec on the starter is more than enough. then let it cool off 15-30 sec. before hitting it again.
And starting fluid will not cure your problem and may get you into trouble.

You might also learn something doing a search on here and reading through a lot of posts about just this thing.
Try and listen to the advice you get if you ask a question -- you have a dirty carb, and old crappy gas, and maybe now also a weak or dead new battery. Proceed from there first.

[jake]

Wow mrlmd1, you're kind of tough. I have read a lot on this forum, the the manual and other sites trying to educate myself. Since my knowledge base was zero, I feel pretty enlightened to even know what the carb looks like and to have done what I have so far. If you read my first post you'll see that I drained my "old crappy gas" from the tank and carb, put in fresh gas AND SEAFOAM. I was taught to use the choke in my MSF training class taken in June in Florida and yes it was hot then. When the engine started it sounded weak and like it was going to quit, which made me remember - choke. Honestly I was excited that it started at all. When I got first battery, I was told it was ready to go and when I exchanged it today he checked the new one and, once again, said I was good to go-- no charging needed. You also tell me follow the advice here, which is why I'm here-- for advice from those who know a whole lot more than me-- yet tell me no starter fluid , which there are several conflicting posts above telling me how to do it. Furthermore, I only used prime to be sure that gas was still getting to the carb. Thank you Easy Rider for explaining about the float/needle valve. Thought I had read something about that somewhere.

I am certainly not trying to start trouble here but geez, give a girl a break. (Jake is my dog). I learned so much from this site whiletryin to learn to ride and now thought it would be ok to come back and ask some questions. I have noone close by to help me and am tying to get it running so I can sell it. After over a year of treatment to stay alive, don't want to go out as roadkill due to my inexperience or someone elses. Thank you immensely to those who have the patience to help.

[Water Warrior 2]

Wow mrlmd1, you're kind of tough.
No Jake he isn't being tough. I might have said something similar if I got here first. It did sound kind of odd that you added choke after the bike was running. Yes I know you were taught to use it but some bikes will start in a warmer climate without choke usage.
Also, you haven't confirmed if you have a battery charger. You will need one before this starting problem is over. A small battery only has so much reserve and then is signs off and leaves you hanging there. Your bike will love to have a fully charged battery to rely on for starting.
Believe it or not we want you riding and grinning like the rest of us as soon as possible.

[blaine]

When you started bike and it sounded"weak" it was because it had to much fuel.Putting on choke only made things worse.As EASY stated needle sticking.when next you try to start turn idle up 2 or3 turns(white knob)When bike starts tap on float bowl.Sometimes it helps to free sticking needle.Leave idle turned up until bike clears out and runs smoother.Hopefully this will save you taking carburetor apart.Good luck.

[jake]

Thanks Blaine! Makes sense. Will try after work today.

[dentheman]

After it sitting for 2 1/2 years, you did check to be sure it has oil to the right level? And that the air filter is clean?

[mrlmd1]

Sorry if I sounded too harsh, but-- Just putting Seafoam into new gas probably won't help too much right now as the stuff has to get into the carb and dissolve the "varnish" and deposits in there from sitting so long, preventing things from "sticking" and unclogging whatever's plugged up. Try to dump some directly down into the carb and let it sit, maybe overnight, charge up the battery again, and try it again the next day. If it's warm or hot out, you may not need the choke, (an enricher circuit), or use very little so you don't flood it again. If it ran OK before all this happened you may just have to clean it out, rather than adjusting idle and all kinds of other things. :)

[jake]

Thanks mrlmd1 :). If it doesn't start today, I will definitely put seafoam in the carb and let it sit. It ran fine before I abandoned it so I'm hoping it is just a bit clogged. The oil level is good dentheman and an air filter check is on my list to do. Can't wait to get home and mess with it!

[jake]

well, suprise, it didn't start so I put the seafoam in the carb. Wasn't sure how much but based on how much gas comes out of it I put in about six or seven capfuls. If I need to put in more, please let me know. Checked the air filter, it smelled like gas. Drained the air filter box, black oily, gassy smelling stuff came out, about half a cup. Is that bad? Will drain the carb tomorrow and try to crank her up.

[dentheman]

Did you mean the AIR cleaner smelled like gas? Never mind, I reread your post, I thought you said OIL FILTER.

[blaine]

Not bad,good to get that old gunk out of the air box.With the bike flooded so bad you should take out spark plug and dry it off, or better yet replace it.While the plug is out spin motor over a few times to clear out combustion chamber.

[Easy Rider]

Wow mrlmd1, you're kind of tough.

- yet tell me no starter fluid , which there are several conflicting posts above telling me how to do it.

You have joined a forum made up mostly of MEN; many of them crusty OLD men.... :roll:

We are mostly typical men, in that there isn't much nicey-nice; things tend to be blunt and to the point.
It is not meant to be "tough".

Starter fluid is useful ONLY when one reasonably suspects that there is NO (or almost no) fuel flowing into the engine. It appears that you have the opposite problem; that being too MUCH fuel.

[Easy Rider]

well, suprise, it didn't start so I put the seafoam in the carb.

I have an un-easy feeling........
Just exactly HOW did you get the seafoam INTO the carb ??
For it to be effective, one needs to get it into the float bowl, via the fuel input hose.....NOT by pouring it into the open throat.

One can sometimes free a stuck float by tapping solidly on the float bowl with something like the handle of a screwdriver.

And let me repeat that you should ***NOT*** try to start it again until you can turn the petcock to PRIme for a few minutes with NO GAS OVERFLOWING. As long as the gas overflows, you could be damaging your engine if it does try to run.

[jake]

rest easy, Easy, i got it in through the hose. don't know what or where the open throat is anyways!?!?!?? i will give the solid tapping to unstick the float a try. that gas overflowing is troubling.

blunt and to the point is fine, just took me off guard. wish one of the "crusty old men" could come fix my bike! i'm tryyyyying. some things are so fixable with a little guidance and google, others, maybe not. i'm always stubborn and have to give it a shot. thanks again for everyone's help.

[alantf]

When you said that there was a smell of petrol & gunge in the air cleaner box, have you taken the plug out of the drain hose under the air box, to see if anything comes out?(Don't forget to put the plug back in when you've done it) :)

[blaine]

Drained the air filter box, black oily, gassy smelling stuff came out, about half a cup. Is that bad? Will drain the carb tomorrow and try to crank her up.

[alantf]

Drained the air filter box, black oily, gassy smelling stuff came out, about half a cup. Is that bad? Will drain the carb tomorrow and try to crank her up.

Yes, but does she mean that she's drained the PIPE, or just cleaned the gunge out of the BOX? :)

[jake]

Pipe? What pipe? Just took the plug out of the hose from the box. And yes, I put it back in.

[alantf]

Pipe? What pipe? Just took the plug out of the hose from the box. And yes, I put it back in.

pipe - hose. Just 2 different words for the same thing. Don't forget I'm English. :neener:

[Water Warrior 2]

Pipe? What pipe? Just took the plug out of the hose from the box. And yes, I put it back in.

pipe - hose. Just 2 different words for the same thing. Don't forget I'm English. :neener:
Anyone ever read an English owners manual for a car ? Bonnets and boots ?? What, they dress up their cars. ............ Actually perfectly logical after a little thought.

[swistech]

I have this problem
Will not idle with chole off. It will stall out.
Will idle only with choke wide open. It also back fires when I start it quite a few times. I want to replace stock carb with the best one avaible for more power.
Any suggestions were or what to buy?
Thanks

[alantf]

I have this problem
Will not idle with chole off. It will stall out. It also back fires when I start it quite a few times.

Have you tried screwing the idle ajuster (big white knob) in a little?

Backfire usually suggests a timing (spark) problem, but with electronic ignition, I don't know if this could be the case. Anyone out there who can come up with a solution? :??:

[blaine]

Sounds like a gummed up carb,try some SEAFOAM or BERRYMANS in a couple of tanks of gas.Most carb problems are caused by dirt and varnish from poor maintenance.Does not mean you need new carburetor.

[swistech]

So it is alright to ride the bike with the choke wide open....It is not going to run to lean and heat the motor up and boil it......thanks

[Easy Rider]

Does not mean you need new carburetor.

And finding one that would actually WORK is likely to be a problem anyway.

**IF** he isn't using the choke backwards........then the carb probably needs a dis-assembly cleaning. If it really only runs with the choke all the way ON, then it's probably beyond in-the-tank cleaners.

[Easy Rider]

So it is alright to ride the bike with the choke wide open....

No, not really.
When the choke is ON, it is usually referred to as closed.
If you ride it like that very long it won't do any serious harm but might foul the plug fairly soon.

Are you really saying that you can't decrease the choke ANY, even after the engine warms up ??

P.S. It's not nice to hi-jack somebody else's thread with your own, different problem. :poke2:

[Water Warrior 2]

So it is alright to ride the bike with the choke wide open....It is not going to run to lean and heat the motor up and boil it......thanks
Just to clear things up a little. The choke lever should be pulled toward the operator to engage it and pushed forward away from the operator to disengage it.
The choke is actually a fuel enrichener rather than an actual choke but we call it that anyway. And......is it alright to run the bike with the choke wide open. By wide open do you mean the choke lever is pulled back to fully engage the choke ? The engine would be running rich rather than lean. Probably foul the plug in time and probably wouldn't idle worth a darn after it warmed up to operating temp. Ideally the choke is off after a couple minutes of warm up and it will idle well without any messing around. Being that GZs are a bit fussy on ocassion there is a learning curve for the rider.

[ncff07]

So it is alright to ride the bike with the choke wide open....It is not going to run to lean and heat the motor up and boil it......thanks
Just to clear things up a little. The choke lever should be pulled toward the operator to engage it and pushed forward away from the operator to disengage it.
The choke is actually a fuel enrichener rather than an actual choke but we call it that anyway. And......is it alright to run the bike with the choke wide open. By wide open do you mean the choke lever is pulled back to fully engage the choke ? The engine would be running rich rather than lean. Probably foul the plug in time and probably wouldn't idle worth a darn after it warmed up to operating temp. Ideally the choke is off after a couple minutes of warm up and it will idle well without any messing around. Being that GZs are a bit fussy on ocassion there is a learning curve for the rider.

Thats one of the things the instructors in the MSF class made a point to make sure we had drilled in our heads. ONLY use the choke when you HAVE to it would foul the plug really quick otherwise. When I use it its usually less than a minute until the bike will idle fine without the choke at all. I have the MSF BRC handbook in a pdf file if its needed. Should stil be the current version since it was November 2009 when I took the class.

[swistech]

I did not mean to high jack this thread it just was almost the same problem I am having...Yes the choke is all the way in the direction of the operator. Then I try to move it away from the operator and the bike stalls. Is this the idle port in the carb or the needle is stuck or something.

[blaine]

I did not mean to high jack this thread it just was almost the same problem I am having...Yes the choke is all the way in the direction of the operator. Then I try to move it away from the operator and the bike stalls. Is this the idle port in the carb or the needle is stuck or something.


Carb is totaly gummed up,should be taken apart and cleaned.good time to do needle shim and main jet.

[Easy Rider]

or something.

Yes, it's definitely "something". :biggrin:

Do a search for "idle"........or maybe start your own thread ???

[mrlmd1]

And what ever happened to Jake after she put the Seafoam into the carb and let it sit and recharged her battery? Does the bike start and run?
We have to know these things.

[swistech]

Thanks Blaine........It's great getting an opinion from someone who have been there and done that.... now back to Jake.......

[jake]

Sorry to be mia, a lot going on...I've seafoamed the carb several times and been tapping on it trying to unstick the float needle. well guess what! it's not overflowing anymore on prime!!! bike still doesn't start but I fixed something!!!! progress is good.. but back to business...got a battery charger and it's hooked up now so I have a FULLY charged battery again. thanks mrlmd1 for knocking me around a bit! :) also drained the gas again and put new, new gas in. figured it couldn't hurt, right?

and i don't mind my thread being hijacked. who knows what i might learn. mrlmd1 didn't forget about me.

[mrlmd1]

You drained the carb after Seafoaming it a few times?
Your spark plug might be wet/fouled. Can you take it out and dry it off or clean it, or replace it (making sure the gap is OK)?
After you do that, with a fully charged battery, and maybe no or just a little choke, it should start.

Where in FL are you?

[jake]

yes i drained the carb. even let it fill with gas and drained it again - just because i know how. i've played around with the spark plug, tried putting in a new one too. did the spark plug test and it lit up on the old one but not the new one so i put the old one back in. probably the gap on the new one? it was just a little spark but i don't know how big the spark should be. just waiting for the full charge light to come on, taking forever.

i am in tampa. never even heard of crawfordville! will look it up. oh i see you're near tallahassee. i'm going up to FSU tomorrow. too bad i can't haul my bike up there an you could FIX IT!!! :cry:

[jake]

PURRING LIKE A KITTEN!!!!! woooohoooo!! can't try to ride it yet though, it just started raining. figures. any tips to prevent the next thing from going wrong, provided it starts up again of course? don't worry about me getting crazy, i've never had it over 35 mph around my neighborhood. damn rain, i wanna goooooooooo.......you guys are GREAT!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

[Water Warrior 2]

Congrats Jake. You did all the hard stuff and made the bike run.

[blaine]

Way to go!!Now you should change the oil and filter at your earliest convenience. Congratulations.

[mrlmd1]

Glad to see we got you going again.
Was down towards your way over the weekend on a sailing trip, Sarris is not too far away. C'mon down when you go to FSU, it's almost on the way home.
And ride the bike regularly, that's the best way to keep it going. Use the Seafoam 1 oz/gal gas every 4 -5 tankfuls, you don't need it all the time.

[jake]

Got on it last evening. Ran fine but of course I didn't go much over 20. Out this morning and it was lurching a bit and stalled a couple times but started right back up. Took it out on the big road (only my neighborhood - 30 mph) and it seemed to lose power in third and stalled. Started up and turned back onto the "little" streets. Cut off again. I'm sitting under a shady tree now because it wouldn't start anymore. Don't want to push this thing back home. :((. My fun was short lived. Where's the gunk clogging now?!?!?!!!

[Easy Rider]

My fun was short lived. Where's the gunk clogging now?!?!?!!!

Well it was a good try.
You may still be having float/needle trouble, putting excess gas into the engine.

YOU MAY BE DAMAGING THE ENGINE BY RIDING IT LIKE THIS.

Read the above line until it sinks in......please. This is improtant.

If you can't find a "friend" to help you, a shop visit is in order.

[alantf]

(only my neighborhood - 30 mph) and it seemed to lose power in third and stalled.

Not trying to be argumentative, but you do know how to use a manual gearbox? A lot of Americans only seem to understand automatics. If you're only doing 20/30 mph I can't understand why you'd be in the higher gears. Do you realise that you've got to keep the revs up, or the bike will lose power/stall. :??: :)

[Easy Rider]

Do you realise that you've got to keep the revs up, or the bike will lose power/stall. :??: :)

That might be a good catch......except that a stock GZ should be quite happy in 3rd at 30 MPH. :)

[mrlmd1]

Just for laughs. see if you can start the bike again, after 30 seconds or so of running it to warm it up, with no choke on, see if it revs up with no problem and will run that way for 20-30 secs. If so, there may not be any more "gunk" in the carb. You may just be overloading the engine at too slow a speed in too high a gear and stalling it. If it will run and run at high speed (rpms), you may have to adjust your shifting patterns. You may be going slower than you think in third gear. If it runs OK, go around the neighborhood in second gear and see if it stalls.

[mrlmd1]

OK, again, so what happened? Does it run, did you get it fixed, whatever it was?

[Viirin]

Damn, I run at 30/32 MPH in fourth!

[alantf]

Damn, I run at 30/32 MPH in fourth!

Yes, but I bet you change down when you slow down. There's no guarantee that jake's doing that automatically. :)

[Viirin]

yeah thats true - just trying to keep the revs down and save a bit of petrol but as soon as it looks like dropping below 30mph i'm straight down to third