Another topic for discussion - ABS brakes

[mrlmd1]

From another forum --

Safety group urges highway agency to require anti-lock brakes on new motorcycles
By Ashley Halsey III...Washington Post
Friday, May 7, 2010

Citing research showing that fatal motorcycle accidents could be reduced by more than a third, an insurance industry group has asked for a federal mandate to require anti-lock brakes on all new motorcycles.

Until last year, the number of motorcycle fatalities had steadily increased, reaching a record 5,290 two years ago. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, which can draw on accident reports from the insurance companies that support it, asked the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration on Thursday to require that new motorbikes be equipped with the brakes.

"Traveling on two wheels instead of four is always riskier, but our new research shows that anti-lock brake technology can make motorcycle riding a much safer way to get around," Adrian Lund, president of the institute, said.

Concern about the added cost -- estimated by motorcycle industry sources at more than $1,000 a bike -- and other issues made motorcycle groups reluctant to embrace a mandate. In a statement, the American Motorcyclist Association endorsed making the brakes an option on more models than manufacturers offer but said they are "not a panacea."

"There are situations when [anti-lock brakes] can increase the risk of a crash, such as when riding an off-highway motorcycle on a trail, or when riding an on-highway or dual-sport motorcycle on a dirt or gravel road," the group said.

Unlike automobile brakes, which respond to a single pedal, a motorcycle has independently controlled front and rear brakes. In some off-road situations, a rider might intentionally clamp down on the rear brake to correct direction if the bike swerves in deep mud or gravel.

With anti-lock brakes, pressure is evaluated several times a second so that the motorcycle avoids stopping so abruptly that the rider loses control.

Insurance institute researchers found that motorcycles with anti-lock brakes were 37 percent less likely to be involved in fatal crashes. Another study determined that motorcycles with anti-lock brakes had 22 percent fewer claims for crash damage per insured vehicle year than the same models without them.

Lund said the two reports provided "compelling evidence that anti-locks reduce fatal crash risk and lower insurance losses. NHTSA has what it needs to move forward with a regulation."
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[Easy Rider]

Insurance institute researchers found that motorcycles with anti-lock brakes were 37 percent less likely to be involved in fatal crashes. Another study determined that motorcycles with anti-lock brakes had 22 percent fewer claims for crash damage per insured vehicle year than the same models without them.

Lund said the two reports provided "compelling evidence that anti-locks reduce fatal crash risk and lower insurance losses. NHTSA has what it needs to move forward with a regulation."


God save us from well meaning bureaucrats.
Those reports, by themselves, provide no such thing.

This is yet another case of (likely) mis-interpretation of raw statistical numbers.

It does not take into account other factors that may be MORE important than the ABS itself.
***I*** think that riders who choose, and can afford, a bike with ABS are more conservative and experienced and would be involved is a lesser number of crashes regardless of what kind of bike they are riding.

I also think that if this is implemented, that numbers will "prove" that the do-gooders are right as the number of accidents goes down........as the number of riders goes down because of the price increase.

How IS it that the people in positions or responsibility these days are so..........DUMB ???
We need LESS government regulation of things like this and MORE regulation of the big money and power.

The terrorists are putting something in the water, I tell you !!! :cry:

[bonehead]

Sooo, how many models are offered with the abs? I'm thinking not very many. Usually it is the largest bike in the mfg's line. I just don't see how they can make the statement. There's just a small % of bikes that are offered with abs.

[Water Warrior 2]

From another forum --

Safety group urges highway agency to require anti-lock brakes on new motorcycles
By Ashley Halsey III...Washington Post
Friday, May 7, 2010



"There are situations when [anti-lock brakes] can increase the risk of a crash, such as when riding an off-highway motorcycle on a trail, or when riding an on-highway or dual-sport motorcycle on a dirt or gravel road," the group said.

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The AMA just shot itself in the foot with that statement. Common sense says turn the ABS "OFF". If there is no off switch then put one in or pull the fuse. BMW has an off switch. The Vstrom riders with ABS put in a switch for trail riding.
Would I like ABS for the street ? You bet. The cost should not be a big concern. If there are enough ABS equiped bikes produced the cost goes down overall. ABS could cost you a lot less pain in the future.

[burkbuilds]

I have to second Easy's assessment of the statistical data here. I'd bet a review of the data would also show that sport bikes are more likely to be involved in deadly crashes than cruisers for instance, but the reason would not necessarily be because of some design flaw in the sport bike that makes it more dangerous but instead would likely be because the people who ride them in general are more prone to excessive speeding and might also be younger riders with less experience. As Easy pointed out, the bikes with ABS on them now are pretty pricey, and not the bike of choice for those just learning to ride a motorcycle for the first time. Since stats also show that you are more likely to be involved in an accident the first year you ride, it reasons that most of those people are riding bikes without ABS brakes, but that's not why they crashed is it?
My dad used to say that you have to be careful when dealing with statistics, because you could statistically prove that toilet paper caused colon cancer, since almost all the people with colon cancer had used toilet paper.

[Water Warrior 2]

There are a few not so pricey bikes with ABS. The 650 Vstrom is one of them. The difference is/was only about $500 for a safer bike when things go down the tube. They are still hard to find in the U.S. but are a standard item on Canadian bikes. Weird but that was Susuki's decision. A few more boatloads of ABS bikes in the U.S. would surely increase sales and market share.

[Sarris]

Harley big bikes now come (2008 & up?) with Brembo brakes with ABS as an available option.

I test rode an ABS equipped ElectraGlide, and although it stopped very quickly in a very short distance, I did feel an unnerving pulsation when applying the brakes. I think I felt it in the lever and pedal, but I'm not really sure.

ABS adds about $1000 premium to most Harley models. I'm a faithful front brake user, and I'm not sure I liked the "feel" of the ABS.

Honda offers linked brakes on some models.......how weird would that be?

:whistle:

[blaine]

Harley big bikes now come (2008 & up?) with Brembo brakes with ABS as an available option.

"I test rode an ABS equipped ElectraGlide, and although it stopped very quickly in a very short distance, I did feel an unnerving pulsation when applying the brakes. I think I felt it in the lever and pedal, but I'm not really sure."

ABS adds about $1000 premium to most Harley models. I'm a faithful front brake user, and I'm not sure I liked the "feel" of the ABS.

Honda offers linked brakes on some models.......how weird would that be?

:whistle:

Does it feel like the same pulsation you get in a car with ABS.

[Water Warrior 2]

The Gold Wing and 1 or 2 other big Hondas have linked brakes as standard equipment. IIRC their Silver Wing can be bought with ABS. The Suzuki 650 Burgman is ABS available too.

[alantf]

That piece of Chinese shite I bought (Lanvertti) had ABS, but one of the reasons the dealer gave me my money back (and I got the GZ)was BAD problems with the brakes, so I don't know if the ABS was any use. All it appeared to be was a tubular shaped thingy between the brake pipes & the caliper. The main dealer even removed these after "repairing" the brakes, & said he would refit them if the brakes proved to be o.k.. Seems even he didn't have confidence in his ability to know if the problems had been cured. :cry:

[Easy Rider]

Does it feel like the same pulsation you get in a car with ABS.

I don't know about his bike experience but with very early attempts at ABS in cars.....and with some kinds of partial failures.....you can feel just a TINY hint of the pulsation all the time that you should only notice when it is activated.

[Sarris]

Does it feel like the same pulsation you get in a car with ABS.
I've never driven a car with ABS, so I don't really know.

When I applied the brakes, I felt the lever and the pedal had a small pulsing, almost a vibration feel. The salesperson (a pal, BTW) said it was the ABS. It's kind of a ghostly vibration, I'm not sure it really was there or not. Maybe just the power of suggestion?? Who knows? All I know is although it hauls the bike down really fast, but I'm not sure I like the feel (on Harleys anyway).

Not that I'm an old man, set in my ways, or anything like that.

:lol: O_o

[bonehead]

Does it feel like the same pulsation you get in a car with ABS.
I've never driven a car with ABS, so I don't really know.

When I applied the brakes, I felt the lever and the pedal had a small pulsing, almost a vibration feel. The salesperson (a pal, BTW) said it was the ABS. It's kind of a ghostly vibration, I'm not sure it really was there or not. Maybe just the power of suggestion?? Who knows? All I know is although it hauls the bike down really fast, but I'm not sure I like the feel (on Harleys anyway).

Not that I'm an old man, set in my ways, or anything like that.

:lol: O_o
Your Scion XB should be equiped with ABS brakes?

[Sarris]

OOPS..... you' right. :retard:

Never noticed any ABS vibrations.

O_o

[mrlmd1]

That pulsation is normal and only on when the system is activated. Even if the ABS is "ON", it doesn't modulate the brakes until the system gets input that a wheel is skidding, then it pulsates or modulates the braking force to prevent that. For normal non-skidding braking there is no pulsation or vibration, and none is felt.

[bonehead]

BTW, the only time I feel the pulses is at HARD braking. In my truck, that is.

[mrlmd1]

That's because you are on the verge of a wheel lock-up. The system pulsated the brakes to prevent that. That's how it works, only when it's needed.

[bonehead]

That's because you are on the verge of a wheel lock-up. The system pulsated the brakes to prevent that. That's how it works, only when it's needed.
I know that, I'm a mechanic. I was just passing on that most people won't feel the pulsation until a panic stop. Should have elabotated just a little further. My bad.

[mrlmd1]

No problem, we're all bad to some degree. some more than others, but in the end. we're all good.

[93CutlassSupreme]

Get used to it. Eventually ABS will be required on bikes, along with air bags.

[music man]

Get used to it. Eventually ABS will be required on bikes, along with air bags.


They already make some Goldwings with Airbags on them. :crazy:

[93CutlassSupreme]

Get used to it. Eventually ABS will be required on bikes, along with air bags.


They already make some Goldwings with Airbags on them. :crazy:


I never understood the Goldwing. Why not just drive a car?

[burkbuilds]

Get used to it. Eventually ABS will be required on bikes, along with air bags.


They already make some Goldwings with Airbags on them. :crazy:

That might actually help. According to the EMT training my son in law got in EMT school, most motorcycle deaths are caused by the driver bleeding out from breaking both thigh bones as they hit the handlebars, causing a compound fracture. So, maybe, a front airbag that kept the driver from hitting the handlebars might be more effective than anything else. Maybe.

[Water Warrior 2]

Thank you BB. That makes an air bag a smart move on a bike. I think the idea of hitting an inflated air bag and falling off to the side of the big would hurt a lot less than destroying your legs.
Went over the bars of a dirt bike years ago. Managed to bend the bars with my hip without causing much injury but I wouldn't want to do it now with more years of wear and tear on an old body.