Battery problems. Very, very frustrated.

[Midian]

Hi all. Picked up my fiancee's 2001 GZ less than a year ago for a song. It needed a new battery when we got it. I went and ordered one from Advance to the tune of about $100. They put the acid in, threw it on the charger for about 20 minutes, and sent me on my way. I put it on the bike and it started fine, but a couple days later the battery was toast because it wasn't fully charged the first time around. I exchanged it for another battery, bought a charger, put the acid in myself and charged it fully. No problems since. It got unseasonably cold here in January/February and we (stupidly) let the bike sit for a while. Sure enough, when she went to start it again, nothing. We jumped it off from her car with the engine off and it started up just fine. She rode it to work and when she tried to ride home, it wouldn't start again. I came up and jumped it off again with my car (engine not running, once again). The bike started fine. She rode home, and sure enough as soon as she turned it off it wouldn't start again.

I pulled out the battery charger and hooked it up to the bike (battery still installed on the bike, charger says this is okay). The charger claims the battery is "charged," but the bike won't even try to turn over. If you turn the ignition to the ON position with the charger hooked up, the headlight comes on and the charger says "charging." It will remain "charging" this way for about 10-15 minutes, then the headlight goes out and the charger says "check battery." If you turn the ignition back to OFF the charger once again says "charged." The bike will not even attempt to start.

Nothing was drawing power on the bike when it was left to sit and nothing is drawing power now. The ignition has been in the "off" position the whole time. We installed some LED lights on the bike but made sure to put in a toggle switch so they wouldn't draw power unless we wanted them to. I'm aware, obviously, that a car left to sit for a period of time will often end up with the battery discharged, but it's usually a simple fix to jump it and let it run to recharge. I also realize that the GZ engine probably doesn't have the power to recharge a battery by running it the way a car would, but shouldn't the battery charger take care of that problem?

Has anyone encountered this before or does anyone have any suggestions? My fiancee is starting to get pretty irritated with the bike and I'm not too far off myself. Is this battery no good? Do I really need to spend $100 on a battery for the second time in a year? Will it help to pull the battery off the bike and charge it, or will I just get the same result?

I hope there is a simple solution to this. This is our first experience in owning a bike and this battery stuff has been a real pain. If it comes down to having to buy another battery this soon, I think she might rather just try to sell it for what we paid for it and call it a loss. Are all motorcycle batteries this fickle or is this specifically a GZ (or small bike) problem? Thanks for any help anyone can give.

[blaine]

If bike was left out in the cold and the battery froze it will no longer be useable.The plates will warp and cause a short.

[Midian]

If bike was left out in the cold and the battery froze it will no longer be useable.The plates will warp and cause a short.

If that's the case, then why would it start and run from a jump, but not hold a charge?

[5th_bike]

Many people here have a Battery Tender. Plug in and forget about it. It will keep you battery OK for many years to come.

Yes batteries are quite fickle, especially motorcycle batteries because of their small size. When you have it just sit for longer than say two to three weeks in the winter, you will have to charge the battery. You can also take your bike out, but you will have to run it for about an half hour to get the juice back in that it cost to start, I read somewhere.

I also had mine sit for about four weeks last February .... Needed a jump start, ran fine, turned off - no more juice... battery dead... put in new in April 2007 by the p.o.

Apparently, once the charge gets below a certain minimum, the battery is history and will not hold a significant charge anymore. Also jump starting is not good, because the already comatose battery gets fried by the enormous amps from the car battery....

So, I bought a new one at the local Suzuki dealer for $54. Also bought a 1 amp charger at Advance Auto Parts for $23.
I wanted to ride, otherwise I would have ordered everything online (see below). Put the acid in and had it charge for about 3 hours. Kept an eye on the amps, once it's below 300 mA the battery is charged.
Have had no problem since, also because I use the bike at least once a week now.

Bottom line, a new battery should not cost $100. You should get a new battery and a battery tender for less than $100.

Battery example (not affiliated)
http://www.batterymart.com/c-suzuki-gz250-battery.html

Battery charger/tender example (ditto):
http://www.jafrum.com/Accessories/Batte ... ATTEND12JR (http://www.jafrum.com/Accessories/Battery/Battery-Tender-Junior-PTBATTEND12JR)

Lastly - please do get a battery and a tender - all your frustrations will blow away once you hit the road (darn, can't find that smiley "happily-cruising-along"?...)

[blaine]

Midian already stated he boosted the bike with the car not running ,that will not harm the bike.Only if car is running will it harm bike.It will start on a boost because you are using car battery for voltage.Bike battery is doing nothing.ON a boost bike would start with no battery,but not good for charging system.

[5th_bike]

If bike was left out in the cold and the battery froze it will no longer be useable.The plates will warp and cause a short.

If that's the case, then why would it start and run from a jump, but not hold a charge?

Once it's started it will generate its own power and it doesn't need the battery. So even if the battery will not charge anymore, the bike will run fine.

PS do not jump start with the car's engine running, this could damage the bike's electronics.

[Midian]

Bottom line, a new battery should not cost $100. You should get a new battery and a battery tender for less than $100.

Battery example (not affiliated)
http://www.batterymart.com/c-suzuki-gz250-battery.html

Battery charger/tender example (ditto):
http://www.jafrum.com/Accessories/Batte ... ATTEND12JR

Lastly - please do get a battery and a tender - all your frustrations will blow away once you hit the road (darn, can't find that smiley "happily-cruising-along"?...)

Thanks for the links. I looked at some of the batteries online when I went to buy the first one, but I didn't know anything about adding acid to the battery, charging it, anything like that at the time. I had a friend who worked at Advance, with his discount it cost me about $90 and tax. Interstate Batteries quoted me about $130 and tax, so it seemed like an okay price.

So I want to make sure I have everything straight before I drop more cash on this battery situation... the battery tender can be plugged up to the battery on the bike and left indefinitely without damage to the battery? The charger I currently have is just a cheap motorcycle/atv "speed charger" from Wal-Mart, it's 6V or 12V selectable (I've kept it on 6V). Is this the same thing or will this damage the battery if used the same way as the tender? Is there anything else I need to know about the tender/charger in general?

If I can dig up the paperwork I'll check the warranty on the battery from Advance. Any money I don't have to spend is a good thing. Barring that, I'll probably pick one up from the link you just gave. My fiancee is the biker here, I'm a muscle car guy at heart. I so far haven't been able to get used to not being encased in protective steel... haha. Though if we can get the GZ running again maybe I'll give it another shot now that it's getting warmer. I've just never had to spend this much time thinking about a car battery... it's a little frustrating learning all these bike things just by (sometimes costly) trial and error.

Thanks much for the info, though. If anyone has anything else to add, please feel free.

Once it's started it will generate its own power and it doesn't need the battery. So even if the battery will not charge anymore, the bike will run fine.

PS do not jump start with the car's engine running, this could damage the bike's electronics.

Well, that makes sense then. And yeah, I've only jumped it with the car off. We made that mistake once with the very first battery, but it was junk before we ever attempted that.

[blaine]

100% agree!!!

[Water Warrior 2]

In reference to your charger.."I've kept it on 6 volts." Don't do that ! Nothing is accomplished. Does sound like you do need a new battery though. My last battery lasted 362 days from purchase because I ignored it and was too lazy to use the Battery Tender. Get a new battery and a Tender to keep it healthy. The more you ride the bike the happier it will be.

[alantf]

(darn, can't find that smiley "happily-cruising-along"?...)

it's 6V or 12V selectable (I've kept it on 6V).

Yup.... I mentioned the other day that a LOT of the smileys have vanished, but no one picked up on it, to let me know why (hint, hint - Patrick or Dupo)

To just add a little explanation to WW's reply - the GZ has a 12V system, so I'm not surprised you didn't have much success charging it at 6V. :cry:

[music man]

We made that mistake once with the very first battery, but it was junk before we ever attempted that.


Does that mean that with the first battery, you jumped it with the car on? Because they are not saying that jumping it with the car running with ruin the battery, they are saying that you will fry some of the delicate electronics on the bike itself if you do that, so if you had the car running with the first battery, then you may already have fried something.

[dannylightning]

We made that mistake once with the very first battery, but it was junk before we ever attempted that.


Does that mean that with the first battery, you jumped it with the car on? Because they are not saying that jumping it with the car running with ruin the battery, they are saying that you will fry some of the delicate electronics on the bike itself if you do that, so if you had the car running with the first battery, then you may already have fried something.


true it very well could have, like the charging system on your bike, if that does not work your battery will die all the time, i left my battery in my bike that was setting in a freezing garage all winter, i got it fully charged and it is working A-ok.

[dannylightning]

i will also mention, if you do get a new battery make sure it is fully charged before the first use. i see this topic come up all the time. got a brand new battery, bike starts a few times and battery dies, charge battey and bike starts a few times and dies,

if the battery is not fully charged before the first use it will pretty much kill the battery for ever. any time you get a new battery you will want to charge it up all the way before you use it and you want to charge it at 12 volts. but you want to charge it at low amps (slow charge) charging a battery at higher amps(fast charge) is very hard on a battery and will cut down the life of the battery.

[Easy Rider]

If bike was left out in the cold and the battery froze it will no longer be useable.The plates will warp and cause a short.

Not likely that happened in South Carolina.....unless they are up in the mountains.

The battery just went bad. If it wasn't fully charged during it's storage period, that might have contributed to the failure. There may be a warranty on the battery the would save you some money.

After you get a new battery, your charging system needs to be checked too.

[Easy Rider]

it's 6V or 12V selectable (I've kept it on 6V). Is this the same thing or will this damage the battery if used the same way as the tender? Is there anything else I need to know about the tender/charger in general?


This IS going to be a good learning experience. :)

All modern batteries are ***12V***. Having the charger set to 6V is a big part of your problem.......that resulted in your new battery NEVER being fully charged. :shocked:

The important part about battery storage is to start out fully charged and then to KEEP it fully charged. A "tender" does that automatically but you can do the same thing with a manual charger by connecting it for a few hours every month or so.

At this point, you need a new battery (exchange under warranty....and DO NOT tell them about your 6V charger thing), charge it at 12 V, get the bike going and then get the charging system checked. Chances are, it is OK.

[mrlmd1]

If you have a 12V batterey, why in the world would you charge it up with 6 V? And you want to know why the battery failed?
Your 12v new AGM battery should get fully charged by a 12V, 2 amp charge, not 1 amp, overnight, when new. Charge your present battery up again,with 12V, bring it back to where you bought it, get it load tested by the dealer. That is how you tell if a battery is good or not. If it is bad, they should replace it for you. The battery is not the problem, the dealer and you are. A 20 min charge on a new AGM battery is not sufficient to start out with. I had a battery problem and I started a thread on here 2 years or so ago about this, and I did a lot of research as to how to solve it - do a search on here and look for it.
Straight from the battery manufacturers mouth, regardless of what the dealer tells you, a new freshly filled AGM battery needs a FULL CHARGE before first use. That means putting it on a 12v 2 amp charger 8-12 hours. Anything less, and the battery will prematurely fail. The same goes for a $50 AGM or a $100 one. If you follow the basic instructions, the cheaper one will last just as long as one three times as much. And if you don't use it for a few months, charge it up fully once a month at least, or it will fail and you'll be back where you started from. There is most likely nothing wrong with your bike or its' charging system, it's the fault of improperly preparing the new battery to start with.

[Easy Rider]

If you have a 12V batterey, why in the world would you charge it up with 6 V?

Chill.
Some people don't know volts from ants.

I'm SURE you don't know everything either !! :neener:

That post was a little rough. :cry:

[5th_bike]

Your 12v new AGM battery should get fully charged by a 12V, 2 amp charge, not 1 amp, overnight, when new.

That's not my experience, the battery I bought end of February said to charge it with a 1 ampere charger, and to stop charging once the charging current were below 0.3 amperes. I did. It took about 3 hours to charge and get below 0.3 amps (checked every 20 minutes or so with a multimeter)

You could also charge a battery with a lower amp charger like that battery tender, it will just take a little longer.

[Easy Rider]

That's not my experience,

Time is probably more important than charger capacity. The total charge is rated in amp-hours.
It is easier (and better) to get to the total with more HOURS than with more amps.

Either small charger will work just fine if left on long enough. If the charger is so simple that there is no meter or light to indicate a full charge......just leave it connected for 24 hours. That should cover just about any situation.

A tender will charge no faster or slower (usually) that a similarly rated "plain" charger. It may go a little longer before you get a "fully charged" indication but that is good.