Question about replacing tubes with new tires

[burkbuilds]

Sometime in the next few months I'll be installing new tires on my 09 Vulcan. Right now I've gone about 12,000 miles and it looks like I'll probably be replacing both front and rear tires about the same time probably within the next 3,000 miles or so. I bought tubes to go into the new tires, but since the ones now in service are less than a year old, do I really need to replace them when I put the new tires on or can I use the existing ones again. One reason I ask is that I put a product called Ride-On in the tubes when I first got them that's supposedly able to seal punctures in tubes up to 1/8" and also helps automatically balance the tires. It's almost $30 to buy enough product to do both tires, and if I don't have to replace the tubes right now, then I don't have to spend another $30 on the ride-on product. I have heard people say that you should replace the tubes when you replace the tires, but I'm also assuming most people don't go through tires once a year so maybe they are assuming tire replacement every 4-5 years on average and another 4-5 years before it happens again and it's not likely that tubes will last 8-10 years so you should replace them with the tires. Is that the general assumption, or do tubes have a mileage life like a tread and even if they are just a year old they should be replaced?

[dhgeyer]

I always replaced tubes with new tires, even when I had Rideon TPS in them (excellent product!). But, I don't honestly know if it was necessary or not. A year does seem like a short service life. On the other hand, ask whoever does the installation if having goop in the tubes will complicate getting them in straight and located properly without pinching them. That's the only downside I can think of. Mostly I've had bikes with tubeless tires, as they are more easily roadside repairable and less prone to blowouts.

[JWR]

I would not replace the tubes.

As far as pinching the tube, always have a little air in the tube during the install.

There are a lot of 5 to 10 year old tubes and tires on bikes that are ridden very seldom.

[blaine]

Does this product keep you from having a flat? I have never heard of this product before.I have looked for this for a long time.

[Water Warrior 2]

I doubt the tubes need to be replaced as often. They are protected from the environment by the tire and I would think they will go 4 or 5 years in your situation.

[bonehead]

BB, I look at and inspect the tubes for possible problems. I have found that the most prone area for problems is at the valve stem-tube junction. If there's no rust or hard spots on the tube, then I would'nt replace it. It all really boils down to a personal preference call, IMHO. Tires are the most expensive wear item on the bike, and I'm sure eveyone wants to save a few bucks when they can.

[dannylightning]

well i was always told to replace the tubes when you replace the tires, why not spend a few extra bucks on tubes and take care of it now. it could possibly save you time and hassle a ways down the road or the tubes might last till the next tire change. you never know what is going to happen so i feel its best to replace them.

[burkbuilds]

Thanks for the input! I think, after reading everyone's advice, I'll inspect the tubes and see if there is any corrosion or problems around the valve stems and if they look good, I'll probably put them back in the new tires and save the new tubes as spares or for the next set of new tires.

The Ride-On TPS (Tire Protection System) seems to work well. It claims to seal punctures up to 1/4" in tubeless tires and 1/8" in tubes, of course this isn't a permanent fix, it's just designed to keep you from being stranded on the roadside somewhere until you can get new tubes and have the tire fixed or replaced but I felt like it was good "insurance" for me since I travel between two big cities each week and I'm often in pretty remote areas where it would be difficult to find motorcycle tires and cell phones aren't always in range of a tower. Since I put the Ride-On in my tubes they almost never need any air added to them. I still check them regularly but I haven't had to add any air since back before Christmas. It also took a noticeable amount of vibration out of my ride, supposedly this stuff helps fine tune the balance on your tires, nothing like those "beads" they sell but the bike is noticeably smoother after I put this stuff in and rode a few miles. It's not cheap though, almost $30 for enough to do two motorcycle tires.

[blaine]

Thanks for the info.

[Easy Rider]

I'll probably put them back in the new tires and save the new tubes as spares or for the next set of new tires.

Does this mean that you will be changing the tires yourself ??
If not, be sure to tell the shop about the stuff you have in there and ask them what they think about IT and whether or not to change tubes.

The only problem I have with leaving the old ones in there (since they really aren't "old") is that your new ones are more prone to "age" when they are NOT in use.......because of the folds and exposure to air and maybe sunlight......than they would be IN the tire. I would be reluctant to use a tube that has been sitting on the shelf much more than a year......and you don't know how old it is NOW.

Just another perspective........... :)

[mrlmd1]

Don't ever put that stuff into a tubeless tire. It's hell to clean off a rim and regardless of the advertising, probably will not hold air in a 1/4" hole in a tire or and 1/8" hole in a tube. I'd rather spend that money on gas.

[burkbuilds]

Yes I do plan on changing the tires myself, I may enlist the help of my friend the former service manager for a local Suzuki dealer, just to watch me and make sure I'm not doing anything incorrectly. I'll ask him what he thinks about the ride-on TPS in the tubes. As for the tubes, they are in factory sealed plastic wrap, not being exposed to light, unless fluorescent counts, you are correct that they don't have a date stamp like tires do anywhere and yes they will be about a year older if I don't use them until the next tire change, but there's no dust on the packing material or anything to indicate that they've been sitting around for any lengthy period, and if I walked into a dealer and had them put "new" tubes on the tire, those tubes could easily be years older than these and I'd have no way of knowing that either. I did buy tubes from Bridgestone made specifically for the tires I'm using on the bike, which are the OEM spec Bridgestone tires. Good, valid points Easy Rider, thanks for your input!

[dhgeyer]

Don't ever put that stuff into a tubeless tire. It's hell to clean off a rim and regardless of the advertising, probably will not hold air in a 1/4" hole in a tire or and 1/8" hole in a tube. I'd rather spend that money on gas.

Have you personally tried it with Rideon TPS? I ask because I know from experience that what you say is true of a product called "Slime", but supposedly is not true of Rideon TPS, which is a very different and much more advanced product. I also plan to put Rideon TPS in the tubeless tires I will mount for my cross country ride. I don't put much stock in Internet hearsay, but if you personally have had a bad experience with this specific product, I'd like to know about it. Thanks!

[Easy Rider]

Don't ever put that stuff into a tubeless tire.

but supposedly is not true of Rideon TPS,

Never is a long time. Even with things like Slime.......if you are out in the middle of nowhere, and it's getting dark and you have no cellphone service and a car hasn't passed in about a half an hour AND the sky in the west is looking ominously DARK.......well, you get the idea.
I don't personally believe in using ANY of that stuff but don't figure I'll ever be very far from "civilization" either.

You many be in a rather unique position to do some "testing" if you do decide to change tubes this time. While you will never be able to get anywhere near full pressure in a bare tube without it blowing up........you could poke a hole in it and then put in some air to see what happens.
The hole part may happen automatically during removal so it is a good idea to have a spare set available even if you don't plan to use them.

I, for one, will be real interested in hearing the results......including whether or not you will be inclined to recommend that "rookies" try to change their own tires.

[mrlmd1]

You're right, I was assuming that Ride-on was like Slime and other similar products, but i looked it up on their website. What bothers me about that stuff is that it's water soluble, so what happens of you were to get a flat from a puncture in the rain? Or if it gets wet, does it dissolve and then the tire leaks? All those things will only work if the leak is in the tread area, not so much higher up on the sidewall, as the centrifugal force keeps it applied to the outer area of the spinning tire. Does that liquid you inject into the tire stay liquid, how easily can you wash it off if you want to try and patch a small hole later?
It's only meant as an emergency stopgap measure so you can ride somewhere to get the tire repaired/replaced in a short while, it's not really supposed to be the permanent fix for a punctured tire, right? It may get you to safety, that's the intent, then you still have to deal with the damaged tire later. So maybe $30-40 is worth it for your well being and insurance, instead of spending it on a tow or emergency service call for help. Also, if you got a puncture and it worked, you may never know about it, so that could be even more dangerous than finding a flat. You have to check your tires once in a while instead of assuming everything's OK.

[Easy Rider]

Also, if you got a puncture and it worked, you may never know about it, so that could be even more dangerous than finding a flat.

I was thinking that too.

[burkbuilds]

Easy, as to whether Rookies should try to change their own tires, well, I guess it depends on a lot of things like the rookies general mechanical abilities for one thing. I've changed plenty of tube bicycle tires, even as an elementary school kid, and I watched several video's of people showing how to change a tube motorcycle tire, and it doesn't exactly look like rocket science. I bought some rim protectors and a couple of tire irons for less than the dealer wanted to change my front tire, and in my case, I've got experienced help a phone call away if I get into difficulty, so I decided to try it. I'd never done a valve adjustment before I tried it either. How else is a rookie supposed to learn anything if they never give it a shot? You can read and watch video's all day, but until you actually do something, you don't really know if you can do it. If I had never tried to do any of the things people said, "you can't do that, you don't know how to do it because you've never done it before", then I would never have done much of anything. If I fail, I fail, but I won't fail simply because I was not willing to try for fear of failure. I'll let you know how it went in a few months when it's time to change them, I'll even tell you if I goof up, okay.

mrlmd1, I can't answer several of your questions about the Ride-On, but your reasoning about it possibly saving me from getting stranded was the main reason I chose to put it in my tubes. If I didn't travel anywhere but around town, I probably wouldn't use it either, but I'm on the road twice a week, and despite all we hear about population overcrowding, there seems to be a lot of long stretches of nothing out there between the big cities. I think you are also correct about the danger of not finding damage to a tire, I try to keep a pretty close eye on my tires, and hopefully I will notice if something is wrong.

Oh, yeah, Easy, the Ride-On stuff works when the tire is spinning, so I'm not sure how I could test that with the tube like you were saying. Sorry.

[dhgeyer]

On my very first multi-day ride in 30 odd years, in 2002, I got a flat from a roofing nail. I had been in some pretty remote areas of the Adirondacks, hundreds of miles from home on my Vulcan 1500 Classic FI. I got the flat, or at least became aware of it, pulling into a gas station in Marlboro, NH, 45 miles from home. I was lucky. I only lost a few hundred dollars for a tow, and emergency service at a Kawasaki dealership, which was only about 10 miles away. And I only lost about 5 hours. Very lucky.

After that, I got very interested in how to keep from getting stranded by a flat tire in my wanderings. There are all kinds of solutions if you have tubeless tires. But, if you have tubes in your tires, it's some kind of goop and some means of reinflating, or you're stuck. Oh, some people carry spare tubes and the means to dismount either wheel, change out the tube by the side of the road, and remount and inflate the tire and wheel. That's more gear than I'm going to carry, so it's back to some kind of goop in an emergency.

I did a bunch of research on various types of goop, and Rideon TPS got far and away the best reviews of any of them, including a very positive write up in Motorcycle Consumer News, which I trust more than the other mags because they have an excellent technical staff, and don't accept advertising. No one who has actually used the stuff has ever said anything bad about it that I'm aware of.

I've only used Rideon TPS in tubed tires in the past, and I also carried a CO2 inflator. I've never picked up another nail, or had another flat, so I can't say I've tested it. But it gives a measure of peace of mind.

I did have the displeasure of buying a bike in which a previous owner had used Slime. Short version is, I had to throw away the wheel. I don't think Rideon TPS would do that kind of damage. That's one of its main advantages, apart from the fact that it is full of microfibers that actually form a repair to the puncture while you ride. As for it being ineffective in the rain because it's water soluble, that defies every concept of physics that applies. As you ride, centrifugal force, not to mention air pressure, push the goop into the puncture. Water doesn't get sucked in. The instructions say very plainly that you must ride the bike, adding air as needed, to form the repair.

The point that, with Rideon TPS in your tires, you have to check for intruding objects regularly is a valid point. It's a price I'm willing to pay. I do that anyway.

I'm going on a coast to coast ride sometime later this Spring or early Summer. I will inevitably be in areas with no cell phone coverage, well away from any BMW dealerships, or even motorcycle dealerships. I plan to put Rideon TPS in the new tires I have already bought and intend to mount shortly before I leave. They're very high mileage tires, and should easily make the whole trip. I also have purchased and will carry a Dyna Plug kit, which is the "latest and greatest" plugging kit available, and a Cycle Pump, the best small lightweight 12 volt air pump available.

My thinking is, the Beemer is new, and unlikely to break down. The only thing that could be likely to ruin my day would be a flat tire. So I'm going to be as prepared as possible to deal with that. I hate getting stranded, and in the desert it can be downright dangerous, especially for an Easterner who is not familiar with that environment.

So I think everyone has valid points. No goop, or plug for that matter, is a permanent fix. There's no guarantee that any preventative measure or repair will work in every situation. And, if they do work, they are only intended to get you safely to someplace where you can get a proper repair or replacement as appropriate. To me, given the kind of riding I do, that's worth everything. And, from everything I have been able to find out, Rideon TPS is the best goop there is right now, and basically the best emergency measure to get you home if you ride on tubed tires. With tubeless tires, it may be all that's needed to get home. And, unlike other goops, it will not interfere with a plug patch if you have to resort to that in addition.

[mrlmd1]

"As for it being ineffective in the rain because it's water soluble, that defies every concept of physics that applies. As you ride, centrifugal force, not to mention air pressure, push the goop into the puncture. Water doesn't get sucked in. The instructions say very plainly that you must ride the bike, adding air as needed, to form the repair."

I am well aware how the stuff is supposed to work and that the spinning wheel keeps it in position. What I was asking was, that if it's water soluble, won't water that WETS the hole or gets pushed into the hole or on the hole, from riding in the rain, tend to dissolve that repair? If it's able to be washed or rinsed off the inside of a tire or the wheel, wouldn't it get washed away slowly from the 1/4" hole in the tire? The stuff doesn't solidify on exposure to air, otherwise it would be solid in the tire. It's relying on its' stickiness to bind the fibers together to plug an air leak, with the tire pressure pressing it all together.

[dhgeyer]

"As for it being ineffective in the rain because it's water soluble, that defies every concept of physics that applies. As you ride, centrifugal force, not to mention air pressure, push the goop into the puncture. Water doesn't get sucked in. The instructions say very plainly that you must ride the bike, adding air as needed, to form the repair."

I am well aware how the stuff is supposed to work and that the spinning wheel keeps it in position. What I was asking was, that if it's water soluble, won't water that WETS the hole or gets pushed into the hole or on the hole, from riding in the rain, tend to dissolve that repair? If it's able to be washed or rinsed off the inside of a tire or the wheel, wouldn't it get washed away slowly from the 1/4" hole in the tire? The stuff doesn't solidify on exposure to air, otherwise it would be solid in the tire. It's relying on its' stickiness to bind the fibers together to plug an air leak, with the tire pressure pressing it all together.

I suppose it's possible, although I've never heard of it happening. But remember, neither Rideon TPS nor any of the roadside fixes are intended as a permanent repair. It's supposed to get you home, or to a repair shop. It does that 55 to 60 percent of the time with tube tires, 85 percent of the time or better with tubeless. I'm not claiming the stuff's perfect. I'm just saying it's the best game in town for tubed tires, unless there's something better that I don't know about. For tubeless tires, even though it's more effective, there are other alternatives, and there is some question in my mind as to whether I might be better off to rely on plugging and reinflating as a temporary fix. I'm leaning strongly towards putting the stuff in, since it doesn't interfere with plugging, and it could save me from a rapid deflation of, say, my front tire at highway speeds.

[dannylightning]

all i have to say is i would not want to try and change a tire by my self unless i owned a machine that does it. it is more than likley going ot be a ginat pain the the butt. and probably quite frustrating. make sure you have some air in the tubes when you install the tires, i remember rouning a few tubes on my bmx bike before i learned that trick. that is if you have tubes, i dont remember and dont feel like reading every thing again lol.

[Easy Rider]

Easy, as to whether Rookies should try to change their own tires, well, I guess it depends on a lot of things like the rookies general mechanical abilities for one thing.

Oh, yeah, Easy, the Ride-On stuff works when the tire is spinning, so I'm not sure how I could test that with the tube like you were saying. Sorry.

I absolutely agree with the first part; one needs to honestly assess your own general mechanical abilities first. A person who can't figure out how to change a watch battery, for instance, probably has no business taking a carb apart......and a person who had to practice for WEEKS before they could operate the clutch, throttle and brake at the same time probably shouldn't be changing tires....as it takes a little bit of physical coordination and finese.

People have a hard time seperating themselves from a tunnel-vision personal perspective.
A broader view of the world serves you much better.
The problem I HAVE is someone telling another person in a forum that the don't even know: Hell yes, you can do it. Go for it. If I can do it anybody can. That it pure BS.

As for the tube test.........I guess that means that there are circumstances where you would not expect it to work.....like if you got a nail and parked it soon after with the puncture stopped at the top ???

[burkbuilds]

I totally agree, not everyone is cut out to do everything. I spent over 25 years in the construction industry and even there a lot of the shows on TV try to convince everyone that they can tackle any and every remodeling project, and that just isn't the case. Even among professional construction workers there is a large range of capabilities, most people do their best work when they specialize in one particular area, not to say they can't do okay work in another area but as my dad used to say, "a jack of all trades is a master of none". I once commented to a job superintendent that "Ron is a great form carpenter, he really knows a lot about building forms that I never knew," his response, "Yeah, Ron is a great form carpenter, and as trim carpenters go, Ron is a great form carpenter". :lol:

The Ride on Stuff might seal a leak around a puncture object, I'm not sure, but the design idea of the stuff is that if you get a puncture, in the tread not the sidewall, and your tire goes flat, you can pull the nail, screw, whatever, out of the tire, re-inflate it and ride off and it will seal up the hole. You will probably need to stop in a few minutes and add a little more air since you probably lost a little while it was sealing. Of course, this does mean that you must have a transportable device to add air with, a bike pump, or a 12Volt plug in electric pump or a compressed air/co2 cartridge or something, with you when you get the flat.

Here's what it says on the bottle of Ride-On TPS: "SEALS PUNCTURES STOPS SLOW LEAKS: Ride-On for Motorcycles seals tread punctures from objects up to 1/4" (1/8" for tubes) in diameter, prevents flats and helps tires last longer. Ride-On TPS for Motorcycles contains corrosion inhibitors that protect aluminum and steel wheels against rust. Ride-On also helps reduce dry rot and eliminate the tiny, invisible porosity leaks that cause tires to deflate over time. Ride-On for Motorcycles SAVES YOU MONEY by increasing tire life, reducing down time, and lowering road service calls. CAUTION: Regularly inspect your tires for damage and remove penetrating objects. For Ride-On to seal a puncture, the motorcycle must be driven once an object has been removed. Ride-On TPS will seal most tread punctures from objects up to 1/4" (1/8" for tubes) in diameter, however, for safety, have tire inspected and repaired if necessary by a professional as soon as possible after a puncture occurs. In case of a cut, impact break, bruise, bulge, snag, or sidewall damage, take tire out of service and have the tire inspected by a professional tire care specialist. If a tire containing Ride-On TPS continues to lose air, take it out of service immediately."

So, yes, it's not a cure all, and it doesn't work in every situation, but it's the only product I could find that at least gives me a shot of being able to drive the bike to get help in the event of a puncture in the tread instead of walking and paying out the nose for road service. I decided that $30 was worth it to me in my situation. I've also been pleased that my tires pretty much stay inflated without having to add air to them regularly anymore and the added "perk" of a little less vibration was nice as well.

[Easy Rider]

I've also been pleased that my tires pretty much stay inflated without having to add air to them regularly anymore

While it can be a slightly different situation with tubeless and an imperfect bead......I have NEVER had a tube tire that I had to put air in.......any more often than wide temperature changes dictated it anyway. Or more precisely, if I DID need air, it was because there was a problem than needed to be FIXED; not just air added.

But I have seen a lot of guys say the same thing after adding "stuff" to their tubes. Either there are a lot of slow leaks out there.......or the placebo effect is coming into play again. :hide:

[burkbuilds]

Before I added this to my tubes I had to put one to two pounds in every month, same with the tires on my GZ250 which also had tubes. Since I put this in, the only time I added air was, like you mentioned, when the weather got cold, and last week, I actually let out about two lbs of air, I guess the 70 degree temps factored in there, (either that or some elves are sneaking around adding air to my tires). :retard:

[dannylightning]

either that or some elves are sneaking around adding air to my tires). :retard:

they do that some times. nasty little buggers.

my tires seem to hold air quite well, its not often that i need to put any air in them, kind of surprising, i had to add air to my gz quite often.

[Water Warrior 2]

Before I added this to my tubes I had to put one to two pounds in every month, same with the tires on my GZ250 which also had tubes. Since I put this in, the only time I added air was, like you mentioned, when the weather got cold, and last week, I actually let out about two lbs of air, I guess the 70 degree temps factored in there, (either that or some elves are sneaking around adding air to my tires). :retard:

I wouldn't bother letting out a couple lbs pressure. Slightly above PSI will generally extend the overall life of the tire.