Replacing chain with new sprockets question

[burkbuilds]

Just to clarify, this is not on a GZ but on my Vulcan 500. I am planning to change my sprocket ratio on the bike and although I've always heard that you should change the chain when you change the sprockets, it seems logical that this advice is given based on needing to change the sprocket because of wear, not necessarily just because you decided to change ratios. Although I have over 11,000 miles on my chain (520-110link o-ring) I've only needed to adjust it once and only about 1/4 turn to keep it in specs, so it hasn't stretched much and is in really good condition, and I keep it lubed up at least every 500 miles, sometimes more often. A new o-ring chain chain for my bike is expensive, and I'll either have to pay someone to install the master link and flare it or buy a kit which isn't horrible, but it adds up. I'm wondering if I compare the new sprockets to the existing ones, if there's not discernible visible difference in the shape of the teeth and they aren't visibly worn can I re-use this same chain, or am I just asking for trouble? I'd appreciate your input, especially if you actually tried something like this and what your results were good or bad. Thanks.

I just found this little article on the web, this may answer my question, what are your opinions?
http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/gener ... n-rplc.php (http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/generic/chain-rplc.php)

[Water Warrior 2]

I would keep the chain. If it hasn't worn enough to need a lot of adjustment then it stands to reason that the sprockets should also in good shape. Sprockets normally wear badly when the chain pins wear and the chain gets longer and no longer matches the teeth. That is why some sprockets actually develop bent over teeth in extreme cases. As long as there are no binding links, no extreme noise and the sprockets look good after a thorough inspection you should be good to go. What change are you thinking of making ? I'm thinking it is a larger front sprocket cause it's cheapest.

[burkbuilds]

The OEM sprockets on my bike are 42 rear 16 front which is a 2.625:1 ratio. When I bought the bike the dealer suggested a 17 tooth front sprocket (2.47:1) to drop my highway rpms, and I had that done at 500 miles. That's been a better ratio for me than the OEM since I mostly run a lot of highway miles at 75 mph. When I was looking at possibly converting over to a scootworks belt drive conversion I noticed that they were using a ratio of about 2.23:1 and claiming that it significantly improved highway mileage over OEM. I also found some information that shows my motor peaks in both Horsepower and torque at around 5500 rpms which is almost exactly the rpms I'm turning now when I'm going 75 mph, so I figured that dropping my rpms 250-300 wouldn't bog me down and should make 2-3 mpg improvement in my gas mileage at the same time, plus putting a little less wear and tear on the engine. I was able to order a JTR rear sprocket 40 tooth for less than $25 and that should give me a final gear ratio of 2.35:1 So that's what I'm attempting to do, but I just didn't want to spend over $100 on a new chain and the tools to install it right now if there's no reason to do that. Thanks for your advice WW!

By the way, I also ordered a manually operated chain oiling device from a company in Great Britain called loobman. It has a double sided tube to get the oil to both sides of an o-ring chain and it seems pretty simple to install and operate, no electrical connections, just a squeeze bottle you give a little squeeze to when you stop at a traffic light or something every couple hundred miles. It was less than $30 delivered USD and got good reviews compared to several much more expensive units that I read about on another forum. I'm just getting lazy I guess, tired of pulling the bike into the garage almost every Saturday to do chain lubrication, other than that, I really have no complaints with a chain, they are pretty durable, comparatively inexpensive (to belt and shaft) and efficient at transfering power, they just require a lot of personal attention to maintain them.

[Water Warrior 2]

The Loobman comes highly recommended by a lot of riders. It will easily double chain life with proper use. Keep in mind not to give the bottle a squeeze prior to parking. It is gravity fed and will lube your parking area too. Also you can experiment with different weights of cheap oil for best results. Generally a heavier oil works best from what I have read. It flows a bit slower and will not fling as readily as a light oil. In the long run the Loobman will save $$ and be less hassle. Take some pics during the install so we can all see what it looks like.

[Easy Rider]

so I figured that dropping my rpms 250-300 wouldn't bog me down and should make 2-3 mpg improvement in my gas mileage at the same time, plus putting a little less wear and tear on the engine.

By the way, I also ordered a manually operated chain oiling device from a company in Great Britain called loobman.

Just my biased opinion, mind you, but I think you are getting carried away in both cases.

The tiny little change you make with the rear sprocket will probably not be significant and maybe not even really noticeable. While removing the back wheel is not rocket science it is a LOT more difficult that just replacing the front sprocket. Then there is the chain............????

As for chain oiling, I do mine about once a week when riding a lot......in the driveway with a plastic squeeze bottle. Takes about a minute. :cool:

[Water Warrior 2]

Easy, you missed the part where he already went up one tooth in the front. Dropping 2 teeth off the rear may be the icing on the cake.

I highly doubt any more would be gained by going any further.

[burkbuilds]

This change puts me at the "outside limits" of Kawasaki's standards for this bike. I'm sure it would be possible to find somebody making an even lower ratio for this bike but it's not "standard", if that makes any sense. It may not make much difference but every little bit of wear and tear adds up, for instance, dropping just 250 rpms on a two hour ride is 30,000 less rotations than before. Twice a week that's 60,000 rotations and if I do that 40 weeks per year that's almost 2 1/2 million less up and down rotations wearing away at rings and pistons and cylinder walls etc. each year and, well it adds up. So, for $25 and a little time I have little to risk and potentialy much to gain. This is a 5% drop in ratio from my current ratio. I agree that I probably won't notice much performance difference in acceleration, especially since I'm not into Jack Rabbit starts and all, but 2-3 more mpg on the highway won't hurt my feelings if it pans out. As Water Warrior pointed out, I'm just kinda "tweaking" things here at this point, I'm certainly not unhappy about my current performance, but I guess the nature of the beast with a lot of us is, "can I get just a little improvement to what I've already got"? If I was going to have to replace the chain and everything at this point, I'd just wait until the chain was worn out to do this, but at this stage it seems like fairly minor to just pull the back wheel, replace the sprocket, put it all back together and adjust the chain and go.
As for chain oiling, maybe I get a little overboard with my current care, I pull it in, put it up on something where I can spin the rear wheel and wipe down and clean the chain with a heavy rag and then oil it with heavy weight 80-130 rear end lube pretty much every Saturday and if it's raining, more often. Then every so often I get the kerosene and a brush out and try to get everything "spotless" and then re-lube. That may be major overboard, but it's been my routine since I got the Vulcan. So far, the chain seems to like it! With the system I'm ordering I'll still clean it really good, probably every 3,000 miles, but I'm planning on just adding those drops of oil from the system about every hundred miles, and I'll probably stick with the heavy weight oil, it may be thick but it seems to give the best protection under these types of stresses.

[mrlmd1]

Like every other mod one here and elsewhere - it's your bike, you got whatever advice you want to listen to, you've obviously thought it through pretty thoroughly, and, if you don't mind or if you even enjoy the extra work, I'd say go for it. Just be sure to come back and tell us how it worked out, performance-wise, gas mileage-wise, etc, and if it was worth it in the long run. And we need pics!
Have you compared your oily chain lube with the Dupont Teflon spray as far as ease or longevity or cleanliness of the chain?

[Easy Rider]

but 2-3 more mpg on the highway won't hurt my feelings if it pans out.

[re: chain] That may be major overboard, but it's been my routine since I got the Vulcan.

The bottom line is: Whatever trips your trigger. As long as the chain won't end up being too long to adjust, I agree it's worth the time.....as an experiment. You probably won't lose any top end because I doubt you have really tested the top end but you might actually lose a bit of gas mileage. No way to know for sure without trying......unless you find someone else who has already.

As for the chain, yes **I** think it is obsessive. I do mine about once a week with a "dribble-push-dribble" approach and lightly clean it with WD or mineral spirits and a rag when it gets looking REAL grungy; no more than twice a year. I NEVER clean it shiny clean.

And finally, nice theory on engine wear but it's not quite that simple. Your reduction in wear will never be more than your total change in ratio. If your total ratio change is 12%, then that's the most you can expect in the way of reduced wear or increased life. Since you do a lot of highway riding, you would get more benefit than most but a difference in useful life between, say, 60,000 miles and 69,000 miles might not be that noticeable when (and IF) you get to that point. Most folks like the newfound torque in the lower gears so much that they STAY in the lower gears LONGER, resulting in ......less overall rev's or more.....????

Not trying to talk you out of anything, just conversing.
I'd still like to ride a little Vulcan sometime. :)

[Easy Rider]

Easy, you missed the part where he already went up one tooth in the front. Dropping 2 teeth off the rear may be the icing on the cake.


Mmmmm.....not really. I saw that. I think it might be pushing it TOO far from the factory original......as it will be going a bit farther in the same direction. Just a thought. :roll:

[burkbuilds]

I'll let you know how it goes when I get the swap done, probably over my spring break in a couple of weeks. Easy may be right, it might be to much, but I think at worst I wont' really notice any change and at best, I'll probably just see the rpms down a bit at highway speed and maybe 2-3mpg increase.

Hey Easy, how's the weather in Illinois today? It is very nice here, I just came back from a little ride and it's about 60 degrees and very sunny, lots of bikes on the road around here today. It's supposed to be mid 60's here tomorrow as well. Hope you are having some nice weekend riding weather up there.

[burkbuilds]

mrlmnd 1,
I've heard good reviews on the dupont teflon spray, but I haven't tried it. I used chain wax on my GZ because that's what my dealer recommended to me but I can't say that I thought it was a great product. My GZ had a pretty rusty chain when I bought it though and it may have had more problems than any type of lube can correct. I cleaned it with kerosene every 500 miles and lubed it a lot with the chain wax , but I was having to adjust the slack out of it almost constantly and it was ready for replacement when I traded it in at around 12,000 miles. I'm not completely decided about my opinion on chain lubes yet. I don't think anything beats heavy weight oil for reducing friction wear in "meshing" type situations, like gears and chain/sprocket, however, in an exposed environment (bike chains) heavy lubes pick up more abrasive materials which are the worst thing you can put in a meshing situation. The opposite is true of lighter weight lubes, they don't offer as much protection themselves, but they also don't attract as many contaminants. I guess my general opinion is that if you clean your chain and lube it with something it will probably last a lot longer than not cleaning it and not lubing it, as to which product is the best in this situation, I'd say they all have good and bad characteristics and riding conditions could also play the main role into what you should use. For instance, are you always on dry, clean pavement, then maybe heavy lube would be best, are you on gravels and dirt a lot maybe something that wasn't tacky would work better. Then there's riding in the rain/wet conditions, what works best there, does anything stay on lube wize in a downpour? I wish someone would devise a test that legitimately demonstrated what works best under various conditions, but almost everything I've seen so far is just anecdotal. Do you use the Teflon? How has it held up for you over a lot of miles? I guess I got a little "gunshy" with all the Teflon products they came out with in the 90's trying to put it in all types of engine lubes and basically it all turned out to be a bunch of "snake oil" for that application, so I really only use teflon on my skillet that I cook eggs in each morning. But that doesn't mean that it couldn't perform a legitimate duty as a chain lube, just keep it out of my engine please.

[Easy Rider]

Hey Easy, how's the weather in Illinois today? It is very nice here,

Oh, yea, just rub it in. :neener:
It wasn't "nice" there last week when I came through 4" of snow. :roll:

Actually it isn't bad today; some of the snow is melting and I am praying for 40 degrees to try out my new snow suit. Might be another week or two.

[mrlmd1]

I've been using the Dupont Teflon spray for the past 2 years, on my GZ, on a Ninja 250, on 3 bicycles (what the hell?) and on a moped, and I like it very much. It's clean, quick, easy, doesn't spritz all over the place when the sprockets and chains rotate, doesn't get sticky with dirt attached, and seems to do the job as well as anything else. And I don't do it every hundred or two hundred miles or on any particular schedule, just when I happen to think about it, but It probably really should be done at least once a month.

[Water Warrior 2]

I've been using DuPont for a while now. Not available in the GWN so it is a great reason to ride south of the border. Great way to spend a day.

[k1w1t1m]

If you really want to look after the chain lube it the oldfashioned way. Pouring oil over the outside of the chain does next to nothing except stop rust and briefly reduces wear on the sprokets.

Take the chain off and clean any junk off with something like diesel or kerosene.

Buy a tin of grease or find a suitable pan and fill with grease. Heat tin or pan of grease until melted, suspend the chain on a piece of wire and lower the chain into the now liquid grease. Hook the wire onto the side of the tin or pan (this is so you can pull the chain out without getting your hands in the grease. Turn off heat. Leave chain in the grease until the grease cools. Pull the chain out and wipe of the surplus grease.

[patrick_777]

Seriously, k1w1t1m, that's pretty retarded for this application.

This is an o-ring linked chain and doesn't need near that amount of treatment. Indeed, a heated grease lube will deteriorate the rubber o-rings in the links much faster than a spray lube every thousand miles. That "oldfashioned way" is for solid link, steel chains (like dirt bike chains) that do not have a pretty sensitive rubber piece jammed right in the middle of each link. In fact, there are many, many bikes I personally know, that lube exactly the way mrl, ww and many others (myself included) do it - using DuPont Teflon spray and spinning the wheel. Many of us have never, and likely will never, see a chain problem crop up. I will sometimes just use a slow-flow chain oil right after cleaning, just to get a good oil-basecoat on it before I continue with the Teflon spray though.

It is, however, not retarded to say that the chain should be taken off and cleaned with kerosene every other time you oil it.

[Easy Rider]

Seriously, k1w1t1m, that's pretty retarded for this application.


Maybe he doesn't know it's an O-ring chain.......or doesn't know how that kind of chain works.
Either way, I think "retarded" is a little harsh, don't you ?? :tdown:
Certainly not very friendly to a new member of the fold.

[patrick_777]

Sorry. I meant to say waterheaded.

[burkbuilds]

I swapped out the rear sprocket this weekend and put the new 40 tooth one on. While I had everything out I cleaned the chain and around the front sprocket really good and gave it a test run today. I didn't really notice anything other than that my rpms were down about 250-300 at 75mph, which was one of my goals with this change. The old sprocket and the new sprockets teeth were almost identical in shape and everything looked pretty good overall. Here's some pics if you are interested. :)
http://s1.postimage.org/BEzxJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxBEzxJ)

http://s4.postimage.org/a1wpr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVa1wpr)

http://s1.postimage.org/BEQ_J.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxBEQ_J)

http://s3.postimage.org/lDDwS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqlDDwS)

http://s2.postimage.org/AIuzS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsAIuzS)

http://s1.postimage.org/BF4YA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxBF4YA)

http://s1.postimage.org/BF7sJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxBF7sJ)

http://s3.postimage.org/lDP_A.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqlDP_A)

http://s3.postimage.org/lDUZS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqlDUZS)

I also installed the lubeman chain oiler while I was at it. I'm hoping that will drastically cut down on the amount of weekly time I spend doing chain maintenance and for $29 delivered I thought it was worth a shot.

[Water Warrior 2]

Good pics BB. Your bike is really too clean to be ridden as much as you actually do.

[burkbuilds]

Thanks WW, I'm definitely an amateur photog with a cheap camera, but I appreciate the compliment. The bike only looks somewhat clean because I wiped it off a little before I started snapping and the final pics I had spent some time polishing a little although not to any extreme. This bike is a workhorse for me, I do enjoy riding it, it's a really good bike, but I work it hard, it doesn't get a break if it's cold or rainy and it certainly has it's share of nicks and scratches and it's not even a year old yet.

By the way, I just got off of another forum where a guy bought a used 500 with 12,000 miles on it and he had to have the chain and both sprockets replaced due to excessive wear before he took it home from the dealers. A little oil and cleaning seems to make a lot of difference in that department huh?

[blaine]

My chain has 17000kms on it.Its only been adjusted twice.Clean and lube every 1000kms with kerosene and P.J. Chain wax.

[Water Warrior 2]

Thanks WW, I'm definitely an amateur photog with a cheap camera, but I appreciate the compliment. The bike only looks somewhat clean because I wiped it off a little before I started snapping and the final pics I had spent some time polishing a little although not to any extreme. This bike is a workhorse for me, I do enjoy riding it, it's a really good bike, but I work it hard, it doesn't get a break if it's cold or rainy and it certainly has it's share of nicks and scratches and it's not even a year old yet.

By the way, I just got off of another forum where a guy bought a used 500 with 12,000 miles on it and he had to have the chain and both sprockets replaced due to excessive wear before he took it home from the dealers. A little oil and cleaning seems to make a lot of difference in that department huh?
A little TLC goes a long way. Dealers and the aftermarket folks just love riders who forget to go that extra little bit.

[mrlmd1]

Nice job, a fair amount of work, but you may accomplish what you set out to do, so all is good.
In your first pic, see all that crud that accumulates on the guard in front of the sprocket? All that stuff gets flung off by the spinning chain, picked up from the road with an oil-based chain lube, and that stuff gets onto the chain and is causing wear between the chain and sprockets due to it's friction and abrasiveness. I never see anything like that with the Teflon spray lube - nothing sticks to the chain, it's always clean on the surface and makes cleaning and lubing that much easier and IMO should make the whole system last longer.

[alantf]

This bike is a workhorse for me ............ it doesn't get a break if it's cold or rainy

:plus1: :tup:

[Water Warrior 2]

Nice job, a fair amount of work, but you may accomplish what you set out to do, so all is good.
In your first pic, see all that crud that accumulates on the guard in front of the sprocket? All that stuff gets flung off by the spinning chain, picked up from the road with an oil-based chain lube, and that stuff gets onto the chain and is causing wear between the chain and sprockets due to it's friction and abrasiveness. I never see anything like that with the Teflon spray lube - nothing sticks to the chain, it's always clean on the surface and makes cleaning and lubing that much easier and IMO should make the whole system last longer.
I still found a little build up of Teflon but not near as much as a regular chain lube. The first time pulling the front sprocket cover(using chain lube then)was almost a life altering experience. What a dirty sticky mess. I had to clean the sprocket cover in kerosene to be able to even handle it when re-installing it. I like BB's idea of the Loobman chain luber. The life of chain and sprockets are greatly increased and more than make up for the price of the Loobman chain luber. Another thing on the wishlist for the Vstrom.

[burkbuilds]

Hey WW, so far I really think the loobman chain luber is going to work out great. I just squeeze the bottle a couple of times right before I take off and the lube hits the chain a few minutes later and slowly disperses onto the sprocket (both sides) where it gets down onto both sides of the chain right where the o-rings live and all the friction takes place. This seems to use the lube much more efficiently than the way I was doing it before and I don't seem to get much noticeable "sling off" on the wheel.

By the way, switching the rear sprocket over to the 40 tooth seems to have made an incredible increase in my highway mpg's. Before, with the 17 front and 42 rear I was averaging around 51 mpg's at 70 mph highway. After switching the rear sprocket out to the 40 tooth, although the ratio only dropped by 5%, it seems to have dropped me into a more fuel efficient rpm range for this engine. I got over 61 mpg's on my trip down to Atlanta Monday. (Pure highway miles, I filled up next to the interstate and then filled up again once I got to Atlanta just to see how it did). I'll be interested to see if that holds up long term or if it was some sort of fluke, but I've been riding that stretch twice a week for over six months now and I've never done better than 55 mpg's before at that speed. I've only gotten 60 once before and that was riding between 60-65 mph. I'll let you know how it does on the return trip later this week, although that will include my around town mileage during the week so it won't be an exact comparison to the pure highway mileage. I've found a Chevron just South of Dalton Ga that sells gas without the ethanol and I've found that if I top off once I get here, I can make it back to that station on my way home, which keeps my ethanol content less than 5% at most. I talked with the owner a few weeks back and he told me that he's in the closest county north of Atlanta that is not in the EPA's failed air standard, which requires those stations to use the ethanol in their fuel. There are several stations near my home in Rossville, that carry non-ethanol and I always buy that for my bike, cars, trucks, and lawn equipment and my mom's jet ski's. The smaller engines especially seem to be hard to start and don't run smoothly on gas with ethanol. We kept taking the jet ski's in to get them "fixed" unti we figured that out and switched to pure gas, no problems now. I almost pulled my arm out of socket trying to start lawnmowers, weedeaters, and blowers on that darn stuff, curses on the legislatures and the EPA!

[Water Warrior 2]

BB, sounds like you might have found a sweet spot in the torque curve to attain greater mileage. Do you have any thoughts on around town riding yet ? Probably a little less shifting I would imagine.

[burkbuilds]

Well, so far I haven't really noticed a big difference, I guess a 5% drop in rpms just is not very significant in and out of traffic. I certainly haven't noticed anything different about taking off from a stop, and I really haven't noticed that I'm shifting any more or less, except maybe at around 45-50 mph now I don't feel the need to shift from 5th to 6th, so I guess that is a little different. Before I found myself going into 6th gear at about that speed probably just from "feel" or sound more than anything, it just seemed like it was ready to shift up and now I don't hit 6th until I'm up to highway speeds around 55mph or so. I've always felt like this bike could take another gear once you got up to about 70 mph and that was one reason I did not hesitate to try the 40 tooth rear sprocket. As you pointed out, I probably just found a better torque curve for mpg when I dropped to the 40 tooth. I talked with another rider who has a 500 out in the flatlands out west and he tells me he gets mid 60's using the 17/42 set up, but no hills to climb out there. It is very hilly here in Northwest Georgia and I'd be pushing it to drop any more in my gear ratio than I have now. I also noticed that with the smaller diameter rear sprocket, I had to adjust the rear wheel back pretty far to take up the slack, so if I went any more I'd probably have to have a link removed from the chain or I wouldn't be able to set the slack properly.

[burkbuilds]

I've had a chance to check my fuel mileage more since I changed over the rear sprocket, seems to be doing about 55 mpg in mixed driving now, which is about 4 mpg more than I was getting in mixed driving, so that's pretty much what I was shooting for maybe even a little more than I expected. Overall, I'm very pleased with the new gear ratio, and I'm loving that loobman chain oiler! Easy to use, convienient, seems to work really well at getting the oil onto the chain and probably about 1/10th of the sling off I used to get after I'd oil the chain! Not a bad way to spend $29, delivered.

[Water Warrior 2]

Sounds good BB. Sounds like a win win mod.

[burkbuilds]

Update on the Loobman Chain Oiler.

I just noticed that it has been about a year from my last post about this product, so it seems like a long enough time to give a good assessment.

I gotta say, I am very pleased with this product. It works well, it is easy to use, it is durable and inexpensive. I now have over 32,000 miles on the OEM Chain and it is still in good condition, the sprockets are not visibly worn and the chain seldom needs any adjustments. I was not expecting my chain to last anywhere near this long and I certainly did not think it would be in good shape with this many miles on it. I've got to credit the loobman for the longevity of the chain. I've seldom heard of anyone getting this many miles out of a chain and have it still be in good shape. I ride year round in all types of weather so the chain gets exposed to the elements and since I installed the loobman I have only done about three cleanings. Before I installed it, I was cleaning it and oiling the chain manually pretty much every weekend or at least every other weekend. I get very little sling off of the oil with the loobman, which is nice. I just use pretty much whatever is handy for oil, either motor oil or differential 80w-90w oil. The thick stuff really takes a while to work down through the tubing to the chain, so I usually mix it with 10w-40 to get it to flow better.

[Water Warrior 2]

Wow, that is a lot of mles on a OEM chain. Seems like the oiler is a definite plus for saving money and down time with repairs. I have read a number of reports on various chain oiling systems and the Loobman seems to be the least expensive and easy to use without getting too involved with electronics, timers and complexity.