GZ 250 or TU 250?

[Gidget]

Hi! I'm buying my first bike in the spring, and can't make up my mind what to buy- can you help? I'll be using the bike for commuting to my second job about three times a week, which is 100 miles round trip. I can take the highway or back roads. I am trying to decide between a 2003 GZ250 with about 2500 miles on it (good condition, $1400), or a 2009 TU250 for about $3000. I learned how to ride on a GZ, but am tempted by the TU for the fuel injection and the fact that it's a newer bike. I am NOT mechanically inclined, and wonder if the fuel injection vs. choke would be a good thing for me. Can both bikes handle the highway? I'm on the small side (5'3" and 115) and want to make sure I can handle what I get.

Thanks for your input!!

[alanmcorcoran]

Gidget,

Not that familiar with the TU, but a 100 mile r/t commute is a lot. I have a GZ and a fuel injection bike and I prefer the fuel injection 100%. However I am not sure if the TU handles as well as the GZ.

1) Do you need to be above 65 regularly?
2) Are there hills?
3) Is the road well paved?

If you have hills or you got to be at 65+ most of the time, I would get a bigger bike. (You'll get a lot of different opinions on this, you'll just have to weigh them out.) The GZ is excellent for around town and the occasional long run, but for 300 miles a week it's pushing it. The seat isn't the greatest, although for someone as light as you it might be fine.

The GZ will bounce you around considerably if you are hauling ass on rough pavement. Some of our freeways out here are a patchwork of concrete, asphalt, and are scalloped, ridged and in many places, potholed. It can be pretty fatiguing going 50 miles on one on the GZ. On the other hand, they are a breeze on my big bike.

If you already know how to ride I'd recommend something at least 500cc's for that much riding. Let us know how you make out.

[Gidget]

Thanks Alan. I wouldn't have to be above 65 regularly if I took the back roads, that would just be ~55mph. But I would be riding at night, and the back roads would have more deer... No real hills (I'm in Michigan), and the road is well maintained, for the most part. I am tempted to buy a larger bike, but for my size and skill level (newly licensed, no real "road time") I am leery of getting something too big. I hear that the TU is very similar to the GZ as far as size and maneuverability, but is a smoother ride. Just wondering if I would be paying twice the cost for something that doesn't make that much difference. I would love to just buy a 500-600CC bike off the get-go, but as a newbie, I don't want to get too much power under me and not know how to handle it.

[alanmcorcoran]

Well, I guess it's good to be prudent and only you know how quickly you learn new things. I was pretty terrified of big bikes but I went from a GZ to a 1850cc bike. I did have two minor mishaps in the first few months - one where I went down in slow motion in a parking lot and got some scratches on the bike and one where I lost my balance when forced to panic stop at a freeway entrance. Neither one was any big deal and had more to do with the weight of the bike than the power.

If you are new, you might want to go with the cheaper bike and plan to upgrade when you get more confidence. I rode my GZ for 3000 miles before I got the bigger bike and I think that is a good minimum. You could probably sell it for at least 1000 after you ride it for 3000 miles.

[mrlmd1]

WE and you need to know a little bit more about the 2003 GZ. Do you know anything about what maintenance has been done on this bike since new - any oil changes, valve adjustment checks, brake pad replacements? First off, regardless of the mileage and tread depth left on the tires, the tires have to be replaced as they are 6-7 years old and the rubber gets hard and brittle and the tires lose their grip with tires this old.. This is a safety factor and if those are original tires, they must be replaced.
2 new tires, with also the inner tubes, mounted, and balanced (if you want), will run $200-300 depending on who does it and their labor charges. That has to be figured into the cost of the bike or used as a bargaining tool to get the previous owner to drop his price. Depending on how it was driven, it may need new front brake pads (new owners usually do a lot of stop and go driving rather than long trips) and this may cost $50-75. It will be due for a valve check/adjustment in another 3500 miles, so figure that as an expense. Does it start and run well, is the battery OK with the bike not being ridden much? Have someone knowledgeable check out the bike or pay a mechanic or a dealer to check it out for you, but at least you need new tires.
Is the TU a new 2009 leftover, or is it used? I never heard of a new TU for $3000, they're more like $4000, plus all the taxes and other dealer fees. If it's used, how many miles on it, etc., etc.?
I slightly disagree with AC and think either one of these will easily do 300 miles a week at a steady 55-65 mph without any problem as long as they are maintained properly, like with periodic oil changes. I previously had a '99 GZ I bought with 2900 miles on it, and that bike ran amazingly well, just turn the key and go, never had any problem after getting a new battery, Ran like a top, very reliable and smooth. These bikes have been known to last 100,000 miles if cared for.
Something else to consider is, do you have to carry anything with you, like need luggage for your trips? That may influence a little what you get. You may want to buy a windshield if you are making 50 miles trips each way, for comfort and protection against flying debris.
In addition to looking at possibly a bigger bike, you may want to look at a Kawasaki Ninja 250 (just got one of those too). They are light and small (easy for you to handle), and economical, but will easily keep up at 65 mph highway speed, and will go 30+ mph faster than that. A little different riding position, but very comfortable. Just something else to look at, something else to confuse you with.

[Gidget]

OK, let me see. The 2003 GZ is from my motorcycle "school" so it has only been used by students. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. But it has definitely been well maintained and has gotten a clean "bill of health." The 2009 TU is new in that it doesn't have any miles, but is leftover from last year, thus the low price. I wouldn't be taking much with me, maybe just a small bag of clothes to change into. I am not a big fan of the Ninja's look/riding position, but I have never tried one, maybe I should check it out. As you said, one more thing to confuse me! :)

[alanmcorcoran]

To clarify, I didn't mean to imply that the GZ wouldn't be able to do 300 miles a week, I meant to say I wouldn't want to commute 300 miles a week on one. Others have ridden them successfully for as much or more, but if given the option of something beefier, I'd go beefier. I agree with all the rest of mrl's cautions re condition, etc.

Also, I don't know about your school, but at my school, the mirrors were off, the gas tanks were all dented and at least four of the twelve bikes used in my section were dropped, a few several times, during the ONE two-day riding portion. I wouldn't purchase a bike from that school for ten bucks.

[frempath]

I think just to add another voice, you should also look at the 500cc bikes. They are still quite light, but would allow a bit more of the highway speeds you will probably need for the longer commutes.

[Gidget]

Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it! What 500CC bikes would anyone recommend? I wish I could try one out before buying...I don't know what to expect since I've only ridden a GZ. At this point I almost want to give someone my money and have them pick me out a bike!!

[mrlmd1]

The school's 2003 GZ may be OK, but it no doubt 100% will need new tires if they are original (you can check the date stamp on the sidewall to see month and year of manufacture) and will probably need front brake pads replaced because of the type of stop and go driving done there. So you are in for at least $250 of extra expense besides the cost of the bike at $1400. Have you seen this bike and see what kind of condition it's in, dents. scrapes, bent brake/clutch levers and foot controls from being dropped or laid down? $1650 is still not a bad price if it's not banged up but you may be able to negotiate them down because of the added money you have to put in to make it safe, and the school would want you to have a safe bike, right? On the other hand, if you can get the TU for $3000 +tax, without all kinds of other added-on dealer fees (like prep, transportation, etc,etc) I'd go for that one. It should still come with a year warranty, which will ease your mind and maybe your pocketbook. With either bike, I would get a full windshield for those rides you have to make, also to protect you a little from the cold up there in Michigan. If you buy the TU from a dealer, ask for the windshield installed at their cost to seal the deal (another $100-150).
Take a look at the ninja 250 though and sit on one and take it for a ride. The disadvantage is that it's very hard too fit a larger windshield and saddlebags to it, and if you drop it you may break a lot of plastic. It's a fun bike, faster, just as reliable, different look.
For 500cc bikes, look for the Kawasaki Vulcan 500 if you can still find one, but add another $1500 to the cost over the TU. Do a search on here for burkbuilds bike and see all the threads on it and his reviews.

[Gidget]

Thanks so much, "mrlmd1"! You're putting to words some of what I've been thinking. I guess I just wish I could have a "beater" bike for a month to get more comfortable on it, then get to the TU or something a bit bigger. I felt raring to go after my class last summer, but after a few months of not riding, I have some trepidations about getting right on a new bike and possibly downing it in a typical newbie mistake. Wanna come up to MI and pick a bike for me? :)

I think I will check out the bike shops in March and see what's been turned in and go from there. Maybe I can take a test drive on a bigger bike somehow. Choices, choices.....

[mrlmd1]

If that school's bike is in good running condition it is not a bad deal and the GZ is a really good starter bike, and a keeper bike, especially if you are worried about dumping it - going down- as a new rider, and don't want to spend a lot of money on a new bike. I'm not trying to scare you off that bike, just to let you know you will need new tires and brakes, and even at $1600 or so, it's a good price. Check on nadaguides.com and kelley blue book (kbb.com) and see what these things go for in your area. You can also look on craigslist, but you have to be aware of what you are getting and take someone with you who knows about bikes, or have the seller meet you at a shop or mechanic so you can have it inspected before you buy it. If it's any good, he'll agree to that, if not, run from it.

If you keep the GZ for a year or two I don't think you will lose any money on it, much less than on a new TU250, altho you're buying the TU at $1000 below list price so you won't really lose much on that one either if you decide to trade up to something bigger.

Also, don't forget to add in, you need to buy an armored jacket, (maybe a leather one for cold weather and a textile mesh one for summer), a full face helmet. riding boots, gloves, and maybe if you have any money left, armored riding pants. And ? rain gear if you get caught.
Prices of bikes, new and used will go up as the weather gets warmer and the demand increases. Dealers aren't selling anything now in the middle of winter and you may get a better deal now if you really want a bike. Go for it. Put it in your living room and sit on it every day 'till it warms up outside.

As an aside, you also may be able to go back to that school for a one day refresher course before you go out on the bike on your own, and I bet they would give you that day for free if you bought their bike. You'd be riding your own bike around their course under supervision so it wouldn't be any big deal for them. Ask, you might be surprised. It would really be a good idea if you did that, rebuild some skills and confidence.
Then you could take a ride straight south to Florida where it's much warmer.

[alantf]

With all this talk about bikes "going down" ......... whatever bike you get, PLEASE get an engine guard (or as we English call them, "crash bars") fitted. It's not only newbies who have accidents. I've been riding for over 45 years, but last year a 4x4 sideswiped me as I was overtaking. The bike went down, & the bars got bent, but it certainly saved my leg, which would have been trapped under the bike otherwise. Also, if you lay the bike down at low speed, the bars will save a lot of cosmetic damage to the tank etc. :ride: :chop:

[mrlmd1]

A engine guard for the GZ costs about $140-160, depending on where you buy it, takes 5 min to put on and is another worthwhile investment. Look for pics here under accessories/farkles.

[dhgeyer]

I have personally owned and maintained a GZ250, Kawasaki Ninja 250, Vulcan 500, Honda Rebel 250, and others.

1. I would not buy a bike from any training facility. I worked, briefly, for one of them, and have taken/seen a number of classes. Those bikes take an awful beating, even if they are well maintained, which they are not always. The clutches, in particular, get run so much in "the friction zone" that they are often on their last legs. Also, they get dropped so much that they are usually a mess, sometimes even to the point of forks not being quite true. 2500 miles on a training course is an awful lot of wear and tear. You can do better if you look around a bit. The Honda Rebel is quite a bit like the GZ250, and between those 2 models you should be able to easily find a decent one at a fair price on Craigslist that hasn't had anything like the beating a trainer takes.

2. The Ninja 250 has a riding position similar to the TU250 (which I've been examining carefully at 2 local dealers), is similar in price, weight, and handling, and will go at least 20 mph faster, making it highway capable. It is more complex to maintain, being a twin with dual carbs and plastic body work, but you will not outgrow it nearly as quickly as the GZ or the TU or the Rebel.

3. The Vulcan 500 is a great bike if you can handle something a little heavier. It has the cruiser riding position like the GZ250, and the weight is low, so it's not as hard to handle as you might imagine. You will not outgrow a Vulcan 500 anytime soon, or maybe ever.

The more upright position and higher seat of the TU250 or the Ninja 250 makes quite a difference in your ability to manage if you are short. Most people find that the upright position distributes their weight more evenly for better endurance on longer rides. You trade this off against the lower seat and weight distribution of the cruiser style (GZ250, Vulcan 500, Rebel) being more manageable, especially for new riders, or people with short legs.

My daughter took the course on a rebel, but her first bike was a Ninja 250, and she loved it. She's about 5'6'', and had no trouble with it. She didn't ride much, and was away at school for a while, so I traded it in. Now she rides our GZ250, and loves that too! She almost never goes very far at one time.

One hundred miles in a day isn't all that much if that's all you're doing. Add a full day's work on top of it, and you've got a long day, especially if you're commuting on a very small bike. You would be well advised to do some shorter rides for a while before doing the 100 mile a day commute.

Not sure if I've helped, or just added confusion! Good luck with whatever you choose.

Dave Geyer

[burkbuilds]

Hi Gidget,
You have gotten some really good advice here already, so I don't have much to add. I will second dhgeyer about not buying a bike from a training course, it has had a hard life already. The TU250 for 3 grand sounds like a deal, and I think you would benefit from the fuel injection being less temperamental than the carb/choke,(and if the GZ has a temperamental part it would be the carb, but usually only if it sits for a while) plus the bike will be under warranty for at least a year and you might be able to purchase an extended warranty if you wanted to. I don't normally think an extended warranty is worth the money, but part of that would be because I do a lot of my own work on my bikes and I wouldn't benefit as much as someone who would be taking it to a dealer to have work done most of the time. I sold my GZ250 last year and bought a Vulcan 500 only because I was going to need something to ride two hours on the interstate twice a week for several years. The GZ did a great job of getting me around at 55-60 mph and I weigh about 100lbs more than you do, so I don't think you will have a problem unless you want to go 65-75 for more than just a burst of speed once in a while. The Vulcan 500 is only about 100 lbs heavier than the GZ and the seat height is almost exactly the same so you would probably find it comfortable if you fit on a GZ. The handle similarly. You are the perfect height and weight for the GZ. Water Warriors wife rode hers all the way across Canada a few years back and she was comfortable with the stock seat, we "larger" guys find it a big uncomfortable after about 20-30 minutes. So, I guess what I'm saying is, the GZ is a great bike, but don't buy one that's been ridden hard at a safety course, the TU's basically a similar engine with the improvement of fuel injection that probably makes it less temperamental than a carbureted GZ, and if you can find a 2006-08Vulcan 500 for the same price you will probably be very happy with it. Good luck!

[Easy Rider]

Just wondering if I would be paying twice the cost for something that doesn't make that much difference.

Maybe. Less of a gamble with the cheaper bike.
Since you learned on a GZ, I'd lean that way.

IF.....you think the 250 size and weight might be good for you long term......then I'd lean the TU way.....as a "standard" almost always handles better than a cruiser because of the foot peg position. But then you could always "upgrade" to a TU later.

[alanmcorcoran]

G,

To echo some of what mrlmd said: make sure that that "3K" price for the TU is real. Dealers out here routinely add on at least three fees: shipping, assembly and (the ultimate in BS) "safety check". Plus then there's tax, DMV and so on. Shipping on a GZ can be $450 alone. If it is a leftover, it's possible they won't attempt to collect these (my Strat was a leftover and I got it for 12K "out the door" even though the list price was nearly 17K.) Make sure you compare "out the door" prices before you make a decision. Out the door means EVERYTHING including taxes, license and destination.

[Gidget]

Man, you guys are great, thank you!! OK, so now I'm thinking maybe not the school's bike, but will check out a Vulcan. I already have a mesh armored jacket (neon yellow, you'll see me coming!), gloves, boots and a full face helmet. I don't have any pants, but will look at those too. I figure the better prepared I am to go down, the lesser the chance, right? :) I think I'll take my gremlin (read: daughter) to the store again today to get some more details about the TU. I would be paying cash, so maybe if I wave a wad of bills around I can get what I want for the flat $3K without a lot of add-ons. Maybe the cute kid would help lower the price.

Oh- and I am signed up for a Experienced Rider Course, Skills Practice class the beginning of April, so that should make me a bit more confident. My mom and dad still don't know I'm getting a bike, that's almost harder than choosing a bike! ("You'll shoot your eye out!")

Thanks for all the advice, I'll keep you updated!

[mrlmd1]

Ask about adding a full windshield at their cost - one that covers the grips to keep your hands a little protected from the cold when you ride 50 miles at a shot, esp at night, If you go there with csh ready to but, you could probably talk them into that.

[bonehead]

My 2 cents. I ride mine 250-300 mi each week to work, and have had no problems.(Thats total miles for the week)

[alantf]

Ask about adding a full windshield

Dunno about that. Some people love 'em - some people hate 'em. I hate 'em, but that's just a personal thing. Unless it's set up right, it can cause the bike to be relatively unstable (especially with crosswinds), so would a newbie be able to keep adjusting it until it was "right"? Again, let me stress that this is purely a personal view, but I've never felt comfortable, even with a factory fitted screen. :)

[alanmcorcoran]

Nothing short of a 20 foot mainsail would cause my Strat to be unstable. But setting it up right can be a life long process (on the GZ.) The one that comes from the factory on the Strat is, huge, removable, lockable and works great.

Windshields sometimes come down to what kind of driving you are mainly going to be doing. If it's a lot of highspeed freeway stuff, I think you'll be less fatigued, especially in colder climates. It will also provide one more layer of protection from Shit That Comes Flying Out Of Nowhere Before You Can Duck. I am less happy with the windshield on my GZ, but I still feel safer with it out there. It definitely cuts down on your max speed if you ride in a tuck position, and, at least for the one I have, it is difficult to get them mounted properly. If I had to do it again, I'd go a bit bigger and insist on fork mount only. My first one was like that but it arrived missing parts and misdrilled on the grommet holes and I ended up with the one I have.

[dhgeyer]

Windshields are a science unto themselves. A lot of people hate them, mostly because they get one that's the wrong height. I've had lots of them, and definitely prefer to have one. But, if it's the wrong height it can do more harm than good. The issue is that they all create some turbulence coming from the top, and you don't want that hitting your helmet. If it does, it can be anywhere from mildly annoying to knocking your head around so bad that you'll see double and get a headache. If a windshield is large, putting "lowers" can help eliminate some of the turbulence, as can venting the shield with holes or slits down fairly low. But there will be some turbulence no matter what you do.

There are two approaches that work with windshields:

1. Just tall enough to take the wind pressure off your chest, but but not tall enough to put the turbulence on your head. If you get the height just right, the turbulence will be about at shoulder or neck height, where it really isn't bothersome. It doesn't take much of a shield to do this. The area of protection goes way over the top of the shield itself. Getting that wind blast off your chest is especially important on a cruiser style bike (Vulcan, GZ250, Rebel) because you're kind of laid back anyway, and your legs don't give you any leverage to work against the wind. The result is that all the work to stay on the bike is being done with your arms and hands, which is fatiguing. It's less of an issue with a TU250 or a Ninja (which comes with a sport windshield), as you're leaned a little forward against the wind to start with. Still, for a 50 mile commute, it's better to have something up there than not. A short shield doesn't take any wind off your helmet, so at 50 mph or more there is a lot of noise, but it's clean noise. You should get in the habit of wearing earplugs with a short shield, or with no shield. A short shield is also best for providing proper ventilation for a full face helmet in very hot, damp, or cold weather. FF helmets are designed to be in the wind.

2. The other approach is a fairly tall windshield with lowers on the bike, and you might need to cut some slits or holes in it to keep the buffeting down. You want to be just looking over the top of the shield maybe an inch or so when you look down the road. Some people prefer to have a tall enough shield that they're actually looking through it. This gives the most protection and the quietest ride, but it can interfere with vision, especially when the shield gets old, discolored, scratched up, dirty, or covered with bugs, and in bad weather. If the shield is designed well, the turbulence, or most of it at least, goes right over your head and doesn't bother you. The tall shield approach has the advantage that you don't have to keep cleaning the bugs off your face shield. You have to clean them off the windshield instead, but you can do that anytime, as they don't hinder vision if they're on the windshield as long as you're not looking through it. A tall shield gives a bit more protection in cold weather, and makes you more miserable in very hot weather.

All of the above is a statement of my opinion, based on, what, 16 bikes now, and half again that number of windshields, and a lot of experimentation with building them up and cutting them down.

I think a great windshield to start with is the Spitfire by Slipstreamer. They can be had almost anywhere, they're cheap, relatively small, and can be mounted to any bike with tubular handlebars. They're very easy to mount. You just have to make sure to get mounts for the right diameter of handlebars. I've used them on quite a number of bikes with great success. The mounting system allows for a lot of latitude as far as height. You won't get one high enough for option 2 above, as they're just not big enough, but you will be able to get the height perfect for option 1.

You'll have a lot less fatigue on long rides if you get that wind pressure off your chest at speeds of 50 mph or above.

Good luck.

Dave Geyer

[mrlmd1]

I had a Slipstreamer SS28 and it worked great from the day I put in on, never had to adjust it, covered my grips, and I was quite happy with it. No buffeting on the head or from underneath, probably due to the shape and not being flat like other designs. No sailing in the wind either, It's 15" tall which would be perfect for Gidget.
Not like the shield on my S50, an 18 or 19" tall Memphis Shades Malibu, which I had to adjust the rake on more than once, then got lowers and adjusted them 3 times and still get a blast from underneath up into my neck. I would highly recommend that SS28 windshield to anyone. I bought it through my local Suzuki dealer for somewhere around $150 and avoided shipping charges that way. If that would fit on the TU, and I can't see why not, that's what I would get. It's also a 4-point mount so it's very steady on the bike.
http://s3.postimage.org/gLc10.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqgLc10)

http://s4.postimage.org/1hjj0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1hjj0)

http://s4.postimage.org/1hoii.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1hoii)

[Water Warrior 2]

I had a Slipstreamer SS28 and it worked great from the day I put in on, never had to adjust it, covered my grips, and I was quite happy with it. No buffeting on the head or from underneath, probably due to the shape and not being flat like other designs. No sailing in the wind either, It's 15" tall which would be perfect for Gidget.
Not like the shield on my S50, an 18 or 19" tall Memphis Shades Malibu, which I had to adjust the rake on more than once, then got lowers and adjusted them 3 times and still get a blast from underneath up into my neck. I would highly recommend that SS28 windshield to anyone. I bought it through my local Suzuki dealer for somewhere around $150 and avoided shipping charges that way. If that would fit on the TU, and I can't see why not, that's what I would get. It's also a 4-point mount so it's very steady on the bike.
http://s3.postimage.org/gLc10.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqgLc10)

http://s4.postimage.org/1hjj0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1hjj0)

http://s4.postimage.org/1hoii.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1hoii)

I like that shield. Does it provide a lot of hand protection in rain and cooler temps ? Also looks a lot better than I thought it would when I originally considered one for Lynda's bike way back when.

[mrlmd1]

I thought it did, it covers the grips, I thinks it's 29" wide, that's why I got it. It worked very well for me, much better than the slightly taller Malibu on my S50. If I had known, I would have kept that one and transferred it to my other bike. It's a little bit weird looking when you first see it because of the shape, but I think it grows on you to become better looking, but it's very functional compared to the fatter slightly rounded shape that most shields have. I'm sure it offers much less wind resistance too.