Got a ticket on bike, what to do? ... updated 12/14/09

[GZ250]

I do not know if this is the right place to ask but I have no one around to suggest something so I thought of this forum.

Last month I got a ticket just outside my community. It says going 42 on 25. no school zone. I have NO previous ticket or any violation. Clean driving history. I am sure I was not 42. Something like 35 or 38 could be ok as I do go sometimes over the limit.

The question is do I really need a lawyer or can I just go and ask for an excuse and will the judge excuse me because I have no history or there is something what they say "prayer for judgement". should I ask for that?

Can I argue that I was not going at 42 and ask for any evidence like if I was clocked and can they clock a bike easily?

[bonehead]

If there was another vehicle(car,truck, etc.) I would argue that the radar picked up the larger vehicle.

Other than that, I would ask for deferred adjucation(sp). Or simply fight it, it is your right. The officer has to prove you were going 42mph.

Good luck with it! :2tup:

[Easy Rider]

Last month I got a ticket just outside my community. It says going 42 on 25. no school zone. I have NO previous ticket or any violation. Clean driving history. I am sure I was not 42. Something like 35 or 38 could be ok as I do go sometimes over the limit.


I don't like the hassle of "alternatives" so I just pay the damn things. I might have a different attitude if I got more than one every 5 years or so. :roll:

My advice is to visit the Court Clerk's office a week or so BEFORE your court date and ask them what "usually" happens on first time tickets and what the alternatives are in your state. If there is a big jump in fines at the 15 over mark, you might plead it down to 39. Most states have some kind of alternative, to keep points off your license and the ticket off your record.....like attending "traffic school". In my state, it costs you MORE to do that and I think you can choose that option for a first time ticket without even seeing a judge.

Weigh the options that the clerk gives you. There is no guarantee that the Judge will agree to what you ask for but being respectful usually gets you a LOT. Being arguementative usually gets you a BIG kick in the ass......like maximum fine plus whatever else the Judge can pile on.

Unless you are in a state that piles on "civil penalties" too, making the fine something outrageous, a lawyer would probably cost you more than the fine. Having said that, however, I don't think I would actually make a court appearance without one.

[DrJimmy]

Plead Guilty with an explanation.... When you go in front of the judge admit you were probably going too fast and were not paying attention to the speed because your eyes were on the road. You feel you were going faster than you should have been but not that fast. He may reduce the fine. But the key thing is not to get the point son the lic... if makes you pay the full fine but no points....take the deal

[burkbuilds]

In Georgia, the mechanical automatic ticket stuff doesn't go on your record like it does if a cop pulls you over, so unless the fine is excessive most people here just pay it and move on. I think the main reason is that the authorities can't easily prove who was driving the automobile when it was ticketed so they just let you pay and it's over with. If you contest that you weren't the person driving your vehicle, then you are required to fill out a sworn affidavit and submit it saying who you let operate your vehicle at that time and then you have to agree to go to court and testify against that person as well. You might want to call the clerk's office and ask if that is also true in your state because if it is then it would almost always be less expensive to just pay the fine than paying for a lawyer to help you fight it. My daughter gets those things for running traffic signals just as the light changes and they never go on her record or to the insurance company or anything like that, they just want her money.

[Easy Rider]

In Georgia, the mechanical automatic ticket stuff doesn't go on your record like it does if a cop pulls you over,

I don't think he specified which kind it was.
I assumed "ticket by cop" since he didn't say otherwise.

[burkbuilds]

Yeah, I wasn't clear on that point either. Once years ago, about 20 I think, I got a ticket for going 88 in a 55 by a cop who pulled up behind me and rode my bumper for a while then pulled me over, no radar. Since it was more than 20 over the limit I had to go to court and I did take a lawyer. He talked to the judge about my previously spotless driving record and basically asked for mercy (I was guilty in this case) from the judge, and I was given mercy. I paid court costs and the lawyer and nothing went on my record. Amazingly, that's my only speeding ticket ever to date, knock on wood.

Just for clarity, GZ250, which was it, a cop that ticketed you or an automatic thing that just snapped a shot of your license plate? If it was the cop, did he use radar or just match your speed by following you?

[alantf]

Over here (and in England too) all they're interested in is getting your money. A couple of months ago I was fined €100 ($150?) for going 6mph over the limit. Both here & England they use hidden cars with radar & then send the ticket in the mail. In England, around 10 years ago, I was fined £60 & points on my licence for doing 45 in a 30 area. Thing is, the cop was hidden behind a tree with a radar gun. The safety experts have always argued that if the police were REALLY interested in road safety, rather than making as much money as they can, they would be out in the open, not hidden, so that people would see them & slow down. At one time, if you were not going DANGEROUSLY fast, the police would pull you over & give you a lecture, then let you go on your way - but not any more. I've also heard that over here the traffic cops get a bonus for every ticket they hand out, so it's in their interest to give out as many tickets as they can for minor infringements, & make more money for the state.

[dhgeyer]

The big issue for me is points on the license, as it will cost me more in insurance in the long run than the fine. The last moving violation I had was a speeding ticket on a motorcycle. That was in the Spring of 1968! My last at-fault accident was in 1963. I have a foolproof system for avoiding tickets: I drive/ride cautiously. Works every time. I won't say that I never go over the limit, but if I do it's not by much, and only because it would be dangerous not to when everyone else is going so much faster. But you'll never get a ticket for that, at least I've never heard of it.

My daughter got a ticket on the NY Thruway for 79 in a 65 zone. I had her plead not guilty by reason of mental incompetence. She's bipolar. Her condition is well documented, so providing evidence was easy. It worked, kind of. They plead down to a parking ticket. Probably not even legal, but the judge can do whatever he/she wants. Still cost me a hundred bucks, but saved points on her license and a whole lot on insurance.

Around these parts the discretion seems to be practiced mostly by the cops. Once you've gotten the ticket, it's going to cost you something.

If it was me and I was guilty, I'd just pay the money. If my insurance was going to be severely affected, I'd take a point reduction class. And then learn to slow down and smell the roses. Depending on your insurance company, a first offense may not hurt you too much, or maybe not at all. I would look into that with your agent.

[Water Warrior 2]

Just a little trivia here. Back in 1968 I paid an expensive lawyer to help save my license. He plead me down to 85 MPH in a 55 zone. Was I guilty? You bet. The LEO had his 440 Dodge cruiser topped out at 144 to catch me. Also got arrested and bailed myself out.

[Easy Rider]

Just a little trivia here. Back in 1968 I paid an expensive lawyer to help save my license.

Ahhhh.....the 60's. What I remember of it was good. :roll:

Well, except for the part about getting married......... :shocked:

[alanmcorcoran]

I think Mr. Geyer has the wisest approach (except for the part about pleading mental incompetence - not sure I want that in the public record when looking for a job, applying for health insurance or running for office!)

I wish I was better at the slowing down and smelling the roses part. I have got about one ticket almost exactly every eighteen months of my driving career, for a total in the neighborhood of 18-20. About half of these were speeding tickets where I was clearly over the limit (more than 10 mph.) The rest were either BS or selective enforcement (like my last one, 75 mph on Interstate 15.) For thirty years I managed to time it so that I got a ticket just after the 18 month window for going to traffic school and, yes, I've been to traffic school about 18 times (three times on line!) I never went to court, even on the ones I thought were given in error, unfairly, or maliciously. My understanding is, if the cop shows up and says you are guilty, you are guilty. People out here do get tickets dismissed because the officer does not make it to court, but, even on the ones I thought I was "100% not guilty" I didn't want to risk losing anyway so I went with traffic school.

My luck ran out last February on the I-15 when I missed the cutoff by about two months, so I got the point (but at least I didn't have to do traffic school.) I did get an e-mail reminder about 60 days later from gototrafficschool.com that I was once again eligible. I switched my insurance from AllState to AAA. Allstate basically told me (well my wife, actually) to go eff myself after collecting nearly thirty years of premiums without a single accident claim. I guess customer loyalty only goes in one direction anymore.

Since getting the point I have resigned myself to no more than 5-9 miles over the posted limit even though it often means everyone else is swerving around me in frustration.

[burkbuilds]

According to John Tesh, yeah sometimes I listen to John Tesh, the best chance you've got to beat a speeding ticket is to call the clerks office and get your hearing date rescheduled. The reasoning is this, the cop who wrote your ticket schedules all his tickets for the same general time so he won't have to make multiple trips to court each week. If you can get the date changed for your ticket to another day, chances are fairly good that the cop won't make a special trip to the courthouse just for one traffic violation and without a witness (the cop) to say you are guilty, you get off! Might be worth a try.

[alanmcorcoran]

I've heard similar advice. Between jury duty, the State Board of Equalization, the IRS, the DMV, and (in-person) traffic school, I have developed a strong aversion to any contact with any government officials. I guess if my points go up any more I will change my tune and explore the options.

[alantf]

I have resigned myself to no more than 5-9 miles over the posted limit

See my post, above! The equivalent of $150 for 11 km/hr (6-7 mph) over the limit. The thing is, I didn't do it deliberately. The speed just crept up while I was concentrating on the GOOD, STRAIGHT, TRAFFIC FREE, GOOD CONDITION, road that I was on. The only good thing is that as I was driving in Spain on an English licence, I didn't get points.

[GZ250]

Thanks for suggestions - I got the ticket from a real cop. We do have those mechanical tickets on intersections but those are simply to stop people from running the red/yellow light. That is $50 and simply pay and forget. In this case I just came out my community where we also have a STOP sign and it is single lane road. Less than a mile from that STOP sign I saw a cop behind me with flashing lights. He told me I did not stop at the STOP sign and I as 42 on 25. I told him I did make a stop for a short while and I have clean history so let me go with warning or reduce but he did not. He just gave a warning for STOP sign.

I am thinking of going to the Court house before my date and asking for alternatives. I am damn sure it was not 42, 35 or 38 would be reasonable. I do care for speed there because of neighborhood, school and cops (at this place they hide and sneak).

I have received letters from local lawyers that they can help. I will talk to some and if they take just $100 for fixing this its good otherwise I will try on my own or pray for justice as it is my first violation.

[dhgeyer]

I think Mr. Geyer has the wisest approach (except for the part about pleading mental incompetence - not sure I want that in the public record when looking for a job, applying for health insurance or running for office!)

I'm not sure mental illness is any drawback to holding public office. In fact, I think it might be an asset. Have you looked at the way our "public servants" are behaving lately, and what they're doing to us? And I'm not especially directing that comment at either party or political orientation in particular. Mark Twain once described Congress as "That grand old benevolent asylum for the helpless". The more things change, the more they stay the same. :retard:

As to looking for a job or getting health insurance, it would be unethical at least and possibly illegal not to disclose any pre-existing conditions. Bipolar syndrome is fairly manageable these days in most cases, and now that our daughter is being treated it's not a serious issue. It will become less so as time goes on, her treatment is refined, and she learns to manage it. This all happened to us over the past Summer, and, of course, we have done much to learn all we can about this illness. Untreated it can and does destroy lives. Treated, the prognosis is very good. You would be amazed if you knew about some of the household names, leaders, celebrities, artists, scientists, authors, and so on who are bipolar.

[dhgeyer]

Between jury duty, the State Board of Equalization, the IRS, the DMV, and (in-person) traffic school, I have developed a strong aversion to any contact with any government officials.


:plus1:

[Easy Rider]

I am damn sure it was not 42, 35 or 38 would be reasonable.

No offense intended here but......if you don't really know EXACTLY what your speed WAS, you can't be sure it wasn't 42. "Reasonable" has nothing to do with it. :)

[Water Warrior 2]

ER has a point. IF you aren't absolutely positive then you probably were going that fast. A lot of us will ride at a speed that feels right but is actually over the limit. Also, the posted limit is the maximum allowed under ideal conditions.

[alanmcorcoran]

Re the lawyers: I don't have specific experience with North Carolina (although I did get a speeding in Georgia [guy had a cash register in his cruiser, another strange story for another time]) but be careful about lawyer promises. There is no doubt that a lawyer can help you avoid making mistakes - they have a ton of experience and you have practically none. That being said, it doesn't mean that they can guarantee they will get you off. I strongly recommend good legal representation when you have serious trouble, like a DUI or an accident with injuries or significant property damage.

I'm not sure you really want to go that route for what seems like a routine speeding ticket.

Also, sometimes lawyering up can backfire. I had some minor work permit trouble with Canadian Customs a few years back and tried to get it resolved with a high powered attorney at the firm I was going to do the work at, and, I guess the guy was a little heavy handed, pissed off the Customs people, and I was nearly deported and banned from Canada for life. (I ate some shit, and paid a $200 "fee" and they "made an exception" for me.) I don't know how often this happens in traffic court, but small town judges can range from Andy Griffith to Deliverance (you never know what you're gonna get.) If you have the traffic school option, I'd just pay it, go to school and move on.

The one time I did lawyer up for a (somewhat serious) traffic problem, I had a nice judge and an excellent lawyer (former DA) who got all of the charges dropped in court BUT THE DMV STILL suspended my license, fined me and put the incident and points on my driving record. (This was in the seventies in New York where the Department of Motor Vehicles and the local county court system are/were apparently two separate systems and my lawyer told me he could not help me with the DMV.) I don't think this situation would ever apply to a simple traffic citation, but if you have a DUI or driving with no insurance or vehicular manslaughter or something like that, there may be criminal, civil and DMV actions that have to each be deal with separately.

BTW, one of my California tickets was for not stopping for a stop sign I *had* stopped for. I had stopped before the guy was looking. It was two blocks from my driveway and adjacent to a high school and had bad visibility because of parked cars. I ALWAYS stopped at it because of the kids and the visibility. What he saw was my tentative rollout/takeoff AFTER I had stopped. But the LEO was adamant, wouldn't admit he might have made a mistake, and it seemed clear he was going to write as many tickets as he could on his shift. I didn't think he'd be any less sure of himself when he was in court.

I'm no angel when it comes to speeding on 4 lane roads out in the middle of nowhere (which I've gotten plenty of tickets for), but a good portion of my citations have been arbitrary, erroneous or just flat out fund raisers. Many jurisdictions in California do not see the inherent conflict of interest in evaluating officers based on the number of citations written and the resultant preying upon undermines any respect the public might have had. I am very much in favor of keeping reckless and drunk drivers off the road and you will never catch me speeding in a residential area. I don't see the value to society in parking an expensive cruiser with an expensive officer in it in the middle of the night out in the middle of the desert behind an overpass to nowhere where they can pull over virtually everyone for doing 85 in a 70. Oh wait, I do see the value: it's about $300 bucks.

[GZ250]

Easy, you are right we cannot be sure of speed if we are not watching that needle and 25mph is a very slow speed for todays machines but there is always a cut off where you as a driver can feel that now its fast. I admit I go over 25 on that road around 30-35. There is school and it was around 3:30 pm that is why I said no way 42.

anyway, I will go alone and I am not planning to hire a lawyer. Will inform what happend after 14 Dec. Thanks

[Easy Rider]

anyway, I will go alone and I am not planning to hire a lawyer. Will inform what happend after 14 Dec. Thanks

SIGH!

You haven't been listening carefully, have you ?? :cry:

If by "going alone", you mean going before a judge.....by yourself....that could turn out to be a mistake. Nothing earth shattering probably but a mistake none-the-less.

In some jurisdictions, just "wasting" the courts time will take some of the otherwise available (and more attractive) options OFF THE TABLE.

Since you have no previous experience with a speeding ticket.....much less being the defendant in a court proceeding.........please, PLEASE visit the court clerk for some advice. In most places, they are really nice people who really want to help you keep from making a bad choice.

The Judge may not be so nice. If the officer is there to testify, it is possible that the STOP sign will come up in the conversation. The Judge has the power to turn THAT into a real ticket too.

Bottom line: You will be taking a BIG gamble. I hope it turns out OK.

[Sarris]

Are you shittin' me??? Quit moaning and pay the ticket.

It's the cost of doing biz in the motorcycle world. Move on.

:skull:

[GZ250]

with all due respect to everyone and all the suggestions, First I will go to the Court clerk first thing next monday and will see what happens and how things turn out. I will update on Moday and than I will go alone on the court date.

No moaning and yes moving on. Its not the motorcycle world, In any world you get tickets but to be well informed and use all the available tools is not moaning.

Thanks

[Easy Rider]

I will update on Moday and than I will go alone on the court date.


OK, so THERE is the problem.

Maybe it's just a misunderstanding but in all your posts, it seems that you are dead set on making an in-person appearance before the Judge.
You DO know that is not necessary, don't you ??

And if you elect one of the options that does not require a court appearance you MUST do that BEFORE the court date.

You should NOT be making that decision before you talk to the Clerk's office.

Only a TINY fraction of people getting traffic tickets actually appear in court. There is a good reason for that; it is usually a waste of time.

[GZ250]

yes i know that if i want to plead guilty i can sign that paper and send the money with that to the court but i do not want to PLAINLY plead guilty and pay the money and in turn they put points on my license. Going alone is one option, lawyer another and as said it is not the guarantee. and as I do not have a bad record so I can take my chances and go alone and if not argue (even politely) ask for forgiveness (hands clapsed) that I am sorry and I have no previous record and keep praying inside my heart.

The question is if I ask for forgiveness (pray for justice), means I am pleading guilty or not and can at the same time suggest that may be the police office was not accurate in judgement?

[bonehead]

Heck, go to court and if the officer isn't there, plead not guilty.

[Easy Rider]

The question is if I ask for forgiveness (pray for justice), means I am pleading guilty or not and can at the same time suggest that may be the police office was not accurate in judgement?

There is something to be said for the educational value of a new "adventure". It appears that you are about to embark on an adventure of sorts.

Several of us have advised you that actually appearing in court is probably NOT the best option but it is absolutely your choice whether or not to take that advice. In a TINY percentage of cases it turns out better; in most, you turn out even or worse off. Apparently you need to find that out for yourself. If the officer doesn't show up, that's just luck.

Good luck and please do keep us posted.

[dannylightning]

if you go to court the ticket will usually be cheaper, tell the judge how fast you think you were going, ask when the last time the radar gun got calibrated and how do they know it was accurate, and say sorry if i was going a little fast but its kind of hard to keep my eye on the speedo all the time, i got to keep my eye out for road hazzards and bad drivers but last time i glanced down i was going right about the speed limit, and that was right before i got pulled over so i am pretty sure i was not speeding ,

that is my advice.

if the police officer is not there to back up his case the case usually gets thrown out.

i should also mention, i always go to cournt when i can, tickets have always costed less for me, i callled in and the ticket would have cost me about 200 some bucks, i went to court, cus there was a tree growing over the speed limit sign where i got pulled over and you can not see it till you got right up on it so stated my story and the judge hit his hammer and goes 30 dolor fine plus court fees. and the ticket cost me around 80 bucks instead of the 200 the told me when i called to pay it.

he said since i thought the speed limit was 35 and i was going 40 in a 25 i still get a ticket but i i would have been going 35 he would have thrown it out. and i was going 40mph.

[GZ250]

last week i went to the court looking for the DA to talk about the ticket, no luck, i went at 1:00pm and they told me for cases on future dates the DA will be available to talk at 3:00pm. i came back. today on court date, after standing in line when i finally approached the DA he told me that he can drop the speed to 34 on 25 and i do not need to go to the judge and we can solve here, i asked him will it solve my problem - no points on licence. he told me he cannot give legal advice. i told him i want to see the judge and he pointed to the court room. there were already 10-12 people in the room but just after 5 minutes they called my name. Another DA, " i can drop it to 34, i had the same question - will i get the points" no answer. i told him i want to see the judge and she was anyway in the room behind him. he gave my papers to the judge and she called my name and i entered the premises from the small door.

The police officer was not there anyway. i told her i don't think i was that fast, normally i remain under limit and the area where i got the ticket is my neighborhood and is a school there as well. anyway i will ask for prayer for judgement as this is my first ticket.

she asked me if i have any ticket in the past 3 years. i said No. she told me you do not need prayer for judgement and she will fine only $5 and no points will go on my licence. I thanked her and paid the court fee and fine and that its.

A happy ending. She was nice in talking and dealing with me.

As other people also mentioned in their replies. if someone is not a habitual offender and you appear nicely and talk nicely the judges treat you well.

THANKS and relieved I am.

[Water Warrior 2]

Man, I can't believe that. But congrats on the minimum fine and no points. I guess it does reward you for your perserverance.

[GZ250]

one thing that surprises me is that why there were two DAs and why they kept insisting that i can settle with them for 34 on 25? if i settle with them i plead guilty. the policeman was not there so they could not prove that i was at mistake so they had to drop the case anyway. were they trying to manipulate? i mean if a person does not know much about court proceedings they can make him plead guilty and make more money for govt and more troubles for him (points on licence).

Thanks again and i wish you all HAPPY HOLIDAYS, CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR.

[Water Warrior 2]

one thing that surprises me is that why there were two DAs and why they kept insisting that i can settle with them for 34 on 25? if i settle with them i plead guilty. the policeman was not there so they could not prove that i was at mistake so they had to drop the case anyway. were they trying to manipulate? i mean if a person does not know much about court proceedings they can make him plead guilty and make more money for govt and more troubles for him (points on licence).

Thanks again and i wish you all HAPPY HOLIDAYS, CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR.


It's their job. Settling for 34 would be a lower fine for you than pleading/conviction to a greater number and would look good on their record as a conviction/guilty plea.

[burkbuilds]

Congratulations! Merry Christmas Early!

[Easy Rider]

The police officer was not there anyway.

As I said before, you got lucky.

Had the officer been present, the outcome might have been somewhat different.
The DA's and Judge knew they were at a disadvantage with the officer absent.

If it happens again, you might not be so lucky next time.

Interesting adventure......but you should NOT read too much into it.
The next adventure will likely be different.

[GZ250]

you are right, if you run out of luck anything can happen, i was praying for a good outcome (for me) and on Monday morning there was lot of fog (some news of accidents also) so i was kind of sure if that officer is on duty he must be on the road because of weather and if he is off duty he won't go to court on such a crapy day.

[dannylightning]

that is lluck, i got a ticket a few months ago. i was driving 50mph in a 55mph zone and the cop said it was a 45mph zone. if i would have been a quarter mile down the road it would have been a 45. unfortunately the court date was not for 2 months and i had to move to a different state in 2 weeks so i paid the damn ticket, only 25 bucks and for some reason i have no points on my liscense, have not had a ticket in over 10 years till this one.

when my insurance ran my driving record so i could get oho insurance, 3 weeks ago, yes i was slacking on getting it changed over but my record came up clean and i hope it stays that way.