some tips to keep you from dumping the bike.

[dannylightning]

1 never try to skid your back tire and jam on the front break instead of the rear breaks haha :tongue:

2 be really careful when backing up, that seems to be one of the easiest way to loose your balance, always stay flat footed when backing

3 ( EDIT) once you stop be very careful when you start out from a dead stop with your bars turned at full lock (till you get the hang of it), i almost dumped a bike a few times doing that my fist month or two of motorcycling

4 don't think you can put your feet down to stop like your on a bicycle, its too heavy for that (i had a tendency to try and put my feet down to stop when barley moving like i always did on my bicycle) don't put your feet down and plant them on the ground firmly till the bike has stopped moving completely (after all those years on a bicycle it was hard for me to break this habit) it would be quite easy to loose your balance doing this.

5 don't do wheelies :neener:

6 when you need to slow down fast down shift hard and break hard but not too hard or your gonna skid out. i use my clutch to slow down way more than i use the breaks, unless i have to stop fast than ts down shift a few times fast as possible while breaking. (please see explanation posted below)

7 when stopping with your bars turned at full lock you can easily loose your balance, especially if you hit the front break hard (that almost got me a few times my first few months of riding)

8. put your bike in gear and chock the wheels when you are doing any ting to it. if the bike rolls forward a little the kick stand can move and the bike will fall.

[patrick_777]

1 never try to skid your back tire and jam on the front break instead of the rear breaks haha :tongue:

2 be really careful when backing up, that seems to be one of the easiest way to loose your balance, always stay flat footed when backing

3 once you stop never start driving with your bars turned all the way, i almost dumped a bike a few times like that. wait till you get going a little to turn the bars. and dont cut the bars all and than stop with the bars turned all the way.

4 dont think you can put your feet down to stop like your on a bicycle, its too heavy for that (i had a tendency to try and put my feet down to stop when barley moving like i always did on my bicycle) don't put your feet down on the ground till the bike has stopped moving

5 don't do wheelies :neener:

6 when you need to slow down fast down shift hard and break hard but not too hard or your gonna skid out. i use my clutch to slow down way more than i use the breaks, unless i have to stop fast than ts down shift a few times fast as possible and kind of hard on the breaks but not too hard.

Sounds like someone needs a BRC class. #3 is taught in there and is a basic skill. Not only is it entirely possible, it's actually safer than otherwise because you control your starting line. You should be able to take off from full-lock at any given moment. #6 is actually dangerous if you think you can stop faster with the transmission than with the brakes. Unless you have a slipper clutch, you're actually pretty likely to engine brake the back tire into a skid than slow down gradually. The brakes are meant for stopping the bike, and if you're locking the back, you're putting too much pressure on it. Get to a parking lot and do some emergency braking exercises quick, or you're going to regret not knowing how to stop properly when you actually need to.

Seriously, take the class...and read this site: http://www.msgroup.org/articles.aspx

[dannylightning]

ok well i guess number 3 sucks but here is the . explination of #6

the breaks are only going to stop you so fast, if you hit the breaks too hard they are going to lock up witch probably happens a lot when people are in need of a quick stop. if you break and down shift at the same time (the right way) you can stop much much faster than with just the breaks alone. and i feel that is a major safety tip, that is if you know how to down shift properly,

note. i have been driving stick shift cars for 15 years. and have always downshifted to help slow down, if done right its not going to hurt any thing, its going to be a big help and it saves on your break pads plus it keeps you in the correct gear for when you want to accelerate again and that is important.

only down shift one gear at a time never down shift hard from 5th to 3rd or from 5th to 2nd or you can run in to problems, if you are not good at down shifting please learn and get good at it. it just might come in handy some day.

when i slow down gradually i almost never hit the breaks till i actually come to a dead stop. if there is some one behind me ill hit the breaks a little just so the break light comes on, that way the guy behind me knows I'm stopping, I'm not one of those people that race up to the stop sign and slow down at the last second. when i know i halve to stop i start slowing down gradually right than and there. the clutch works great for gradual slowing and works great to assist you when you need to stop fast, if done the right way it can save your ass

and i stand by that.

[alantf]

i have been driving stick shift cars for 15 years. and have always downshifted to help slow down,

In England, automatic cars are rare. The majority are manual change. In fact, in England you have to take the driving test in a manual car, or you only get a licence to drive automatics. I've been driving for over 45 years,& while changing down as you stopped was necessary, many years ago, before disc brakes were fitted, this no longer applies. Disc brakes have shortened the stopping distance out of all recognition to what it was when cars had drum brakes all round. Another factor to take into consideration is that nowadays, all cars have power assisted brakes (which we never had, years ago). It is generally accepted that slowing down with brakes causes less strain on the engine.

The only exception to this is that when I took the driving test for buses, I had to bring the bus to a stop from 30mph, using gears only - to prove that I could stop the bus in the event of brake failure. Even this is no longer included in the test. Apart from that, I was taught that when stopping (using the brakes) I should NOT change down until I had slowed to the appropriate speed for the lower gear. We were also taught to "double declutch" when changing to a lower gear, to stop any jekiness. That means - on clutch/off accelerator, into neutral. Off clutch, rev up until revs match engine speed. on clutch/into lower gear. accelerate away. This was ALWAYS necessary before buses were fitted with synchromesh gearboxes, but it carried on, later, as a good way to change gear smoothly.

(note :- I was an electrician, but used to drive buses when there was no work around - just to feed my family!) :)

[dannylightning]

no one likes my post :cry: that is how i was tought to drive a vehicle with a clutch, and on my bike downshifting did save my ass once.

i was doing about 55 or so and looking over at something. when i looked back there was a car stopped right in front of me i jamed on the breaks and realized i was not going to stop in time, there was oncoming traffic and a big ditch on the other side of the road, decided i cant go off to the side so i started downshifting too, the bike started slowing down right quick. i truly believe that is the only reason i was able to stop in time.

if you are good at down shifting in a emergency situation it could come in handy. i am not saying you should down shift to slow the bike down all the time but im saying people should really learn how just in case you ever need to.

[alantf]

i am not saying you should down shift to slow the bike down all the time but im saying people should really learn how just in case you ever need to.

Brake failure? :jo:

[Sarris]

I use a combination of downshifting and braking in all situations. I use about 60% front brake & 40% rear. This makes for stops as fast and short as required for the situation.

With a rear disc brake, HD glides have a nasty tendancy to lock up the rear wheel, so balanced brake usage is a must.

Also, backing up with the bars at lock is a good way to dump the bike.

:biggrin:

[Easy Rider]

no one likes my post :cry:

i truly believe that is the only reason i was able to stop in time.


I like your post just fine.
It gets people thinking and talking about safety and proper riding (stopping) technique.

I gotta disagree with your idea about downshifting in an emergency situation. There may be some mental advantage.....like stopping a "target fixation" brain freeze.....but all engine braking does is increase the stopping rate on the back wheel. Whatever you gained with downshifting could also have been accomplished with the back brake.

It is my opinion that if you are in a situation where a maximum straight line stop is ALL you can do and you have to nail it perfectly or you will crash into an object.......you don't have time to divert part of your brain activity over to the shifter; it should all be directed to nailing the brakes just short of a lockup.

NOW......if we're talking an "almost" emergency, where you have a second to analyze the situation and may have an out by swerving.....then downshifting is a good thing to do.

I don't think I have sufficient experience or skill to make that determination in a split second so I tend to hammer the brakes in almost every "OH CRAP....." situation. Someday I may find myself in a situation where that is the wrong thing to do but so far, so good.

[dannylightning]

no one likes my post :cry:

i truly believe that is the only reason i was able to stop in time.


I like your post just fine.
It gets people thinking and talking about safety and proper riding (stopping) technique.

I gotta disagree with your idea about downshifting in an emergency situation. There may be some mental advantage.....like stopping a "target fixation" brain freeze.....but all engine braking does is increase the stopping rate on the back wheel. Whatever you gained with downshifting could also have been accomplished with the back brake.

It is my opinion that if you are in a situation where a maximum straight line stop is ALL you can do and you have to nail it perfectly or you will crash into an object.......you don't have time to divert part of your brain activity over to the shifter; it should all be directed to nailing the brakes just short of a lockup.

NOW......if we're talking an "almost" emergency, where you have a second to analyze the situation and may have an out by swerving.....then downshifting is a good thing to do.

I don't think I have sufficient experience or skill to make that determination in a split second so I tend to hammer the brakes in almost every "OH CRAP....." situation. Someday I may find myself in a situation where that is the wrong thing to do but so far, so good.

it's all about not panicking and keeping cool. i drive a big box truck for a living, i cant even tell you how many accidents i have avoided. i no longer freak out or get shaken when something like that is about to happen. i just react to the situation, i guess its just kind of instinct any more. when your driving around town for 8-12 hours a day you tend to run in to a lot of dummies out on the road. and i have a lot of exp with a clutch

kind of like a martial arts guy, some one goes to punch you in the face out of the blue well your probably gonna get hit in the face. but the martial arts guy who has lot of practice will probably just block the punch with out even thinking about it. some things just become second nature i guess.

[mrlmd1]

I also very much have to disagree with downshifting in a sudden panic stop. First off, most of the weight is shifted forward during deceleration to the front wheel, and this probably provides 80% of the braking force - the friction of the front wheel rubber on the road.
The fastest way to stop is to disengage the clutch (and power to the driving rear wheel) and apply the brakes, just max of locking up the wheels and skidding. Skidding, thereby rubbing the tires on the road, is not as effective as proper braking before the tires break loose from road contact, just like laying down the bike is not an effective way to stop because metal and skin have less friction on the road surface than does good rubber.
Downshifting first off wastes time, diverts focus from the main task of stopping quickly, has a much higher chance of locking up the rear wheel, and is not recommended anywhere in MSF or any other training class or in any book about motorcycling and handling and safety.
I would strongly suggest you take a proper course and try to unlearn what you are doing and learn it right, and read as much as you can to educate yourself some more and stay out of trouble.
The brakes on a bike and the weight of a bike compared to a car are not at all comparable, and what you learned driving a car doesn't apply to a 2 wheeled motorcycle.
Brakes are also a lot cheaper to replace than a transmission or clutch if you screw it up.

[alantf]

apply the brakes, just max of locking up the wheels and skidding.

Some bikes, now, are fitted with ABS, just like cars, to stop you locking up the wheels. Never ridden one myself, so don't know how efficient the system is (on bikes). Anybody out there ridden one? Does it work o.k.?

[Easy Rider]

The fastest way to stop is to disengage the clutch (and power to the driving rear wheel) and apply the brakes,

+1 on a good post. I wonder about the clutch, however.

I've heard stories, and resulting recommendations, that if you lock the rear, to leave it locked.....because if it suddenly becomes free and gains traction again, it might fish-tail and result in a high side.

I've never tested that theory...exactly, but have come close a few times when I locked the back, with the clutch still engaged (and possibly the engine stalled), then released the back a bit to stop the slide and re-applied it again not quite as hard. In none of those cases did I feel that I was ever in danger of the dreaded fish-tail and high-side and I wonder if it was because there was still some "drag" on the back wheel from the engine ??

Don't know; just a thought.

[Water Warrior 2]

apply the brakes, just max of locking up the wheels and skidding.

Some bikes, now, are fitted with ABS, just like cars, to stop you locking up the wheels. Never ridden one myself, so don't know how efficient the system is (on bikes). Anybody out there ridden one? Does it work o.k.?
Never ridden an ABS bike but from what I have read and heard they are truly amazing in an emergency stop. Lots of comments like "never going back to non ABS bikes".

[New GZ250]

Make sure the kickstand is down before you get off your bike. (Seems like a simple idea but...)
:roll:

[mrlmd1]

If the clutch is still engaged and you're trying to do a sudden panic stop, the brakes are also fighting the engine power driving the bike ahead, in addition to trying to stop the weight/momentum of the bike. The rear brake is also fighting the engine. You'll stop in a shorter distance without any power to the rear wheel, in a shorter distance than with power still applied like trying also for engine braking.

If the rear tire regains traction and has power to it, with the wheels out of alignment, that's a setup for a high side crash. The back is going in a different direction than the front. The front brake is applied and the bike pivots around this point. If you get into a situation where the rear locks up, do not release the rear brake.

It's amazing, if you were trying to make a panic stop, that you could play with the clutch and rear wheel traction rather than just with the brakes, altho it was probably not a panic stop but just the start of a slower speed slide with the rear end mildly breaking loose. If the engine was stalled and the clutch was engaged, then the rear tire would lock up and slide. If you were going straight ahead, then it wouldn't necessarily fishtail. That only happens with the wheels out of alignment, as in a curve or turn, for example, altho it can slide sideways when going straight ahead too if the front brake is engaged and the rear tire slides, as in a semi trailer truck fishtailing. It depends for one thing on how fast you are going and if you realize this and can slow down enough and recover.

[Water Warrior 2]

Just a word about braking. The GZ has a better rear brake than Danny's new ride. Having ridden Lynda's M which has the same rear brake is quite an experience. But they will slow nicely with gearing down and rear pedal. As for an emergency stop we were taught to forget the tranny and just get on the brakes hard without locking up the wheels.

And Danny, please get some professional training. I know you feel confident on your bike and have grown and matured since you first logged on with your GZ. But I can tell you have developed some habits that may one day bite you when least expected. I finally had my training after many decades of riding and was amazed at some bad habits that were just waiting for me. You will be quite surprised how much more your skills will improve and expand.

[mrlmd1]

:plus1: :plus1:
That's what I said too, but it's hard to teach and old dog a new trick, unless he is willing to learn.

[Water Warrior 2]

:plus1: :plus1:
That's what I said too, but it's hard to teach and old dog a new trick, unless he is willing to learn.

I went into the training thinking If they can teach me one new thing it is worth the money and time. I lost track of the new things and had to unlearn a lot of potentially dangerous habits.

[mrlmd1]

Good for you!
That's the point of those courses, to get it right the first time, or correct bad habits. It's all about doing it right, and being safe. The fact that you can get away with it and survive for a while doesn't mean you're doing whatever it is correctly. Learning about doing it right and making you understand what is going on makes it that much a safer activity, whether it's riding a motorcycle, learning to sail, or as was in my case, doing heart surgery. It's actually more macho to admit you need to learn something and get properly trained than to go out and try and learn it yourself.

[Easy Rider]

If the clutch is still engaged and you're trying to do a sudden panic stop, the brakes are also fighting the engine power driving the bike ahead, in addition to trying to stop the weight/momentum of the bike. The rear brake is also fighting the engine.

If the rear tire regains traction and has power to it, with the wheels out of alignment, that's a setup for a high side crash.

It's amazing, if you were trying to make a panic stop, that you could play with the clutch and rear wheel traction rather than just with the brakes,

If the engine was stalled and the clutch was engaged, then the rear tire would lock up and slide.

First a qualification: I've never ridden a bike bigger than 600 cc's so if we are talking 1800 cc's and 800 pounds, the situation might be different.......maybe a lot different.

I never said I was playing with the clutch; I don't touch it, in fact, until I almost come to a stop or the danger is past.

I have locked up the rear on probably a dozen different small to medium bikes over 40+ years and NEVER had a problem with the engine "fighting" the rear brake. The first reaction is reaching to get a firm grip on the front lever;that closes the throttle. At that point, I quite assure you that (on most bikes) stalling the engine is no problem at all. You can't in fact lock the rear if it is in gear without stalling the engine.

So, then the rear is locked and the engine is stalled. Unless you are in first (or maybe second) gear and you release the rear brake a bit so that the back wheel starts turning, the engine offers very little resistance......and might even start up again; a push start, in effect.

I've never actually HIT anything during a panic stop (probably shouldn't actually SAY that...) so they all have ended one of two ways: Come to a complete stop, still in gear with engine dead OR get it down below 10 mph and realize that either the danger is past or an easy way out has opened up, at which point I pull in the clutch and the engine is still running....or running again.

How many times have you made a panic stop and locked the rear ??
What was the result ??

Maybe my technique is all wrong.......but I don't think so.
The PRIME objective it to avoid the hazzard, either by stopping or swerving. My swerving leaves a lot to be desired so that pretty much leaves me with only one option. Anything that detracts even the tiniest little bit from applying my FULL attention to maximum braking without falling over is undesirable. In my opinion that includes the shifter and the clutch.

[mrlmd1]

I misunderstood you - I thought you meant that when you released the back a bit and then reapplied it again a little easier, I thought you meant the clutch. You meant the brake.
But that doesn't change my main point. Everything I've been taught or have read, says in order to make a quick stop, you grab the front brake and pull in the clutch simultaneously, removing power from the rear wheel and judiciously squeeze on the brakes just avoiding a lockup of either wheel. Takes practice. I didn't say to downshift, I said to disengage the clutch - big difference.
Why would you want to fight the engine (powering the bike forward) with the rear brake if you're making a panic stop?
Why would you want to overpower the engine with the rear brake and stall it, locking up the rear wheel and forcing it to skid?
Neither of those make any sense. The stopping distance is a lot shorter if no skidding. The stopping distance is a lot shorter with the clutch disengaged. It takes the same reaction time to pull in both levers.

If there is power to the rear wheel and you lock it up so it skids momentarily in a slide out to the side and the engine has power engaged, if the wheel regains traction, you risk a high side crash. Also makes no sense. This can't happen with the clutch disengaged. When you get out of the skid or slide and you get straightened out, then you can release the clutch again and drive straight ahead.
The only reason you didn't have a high side is because maybe you kept the bike going straight ahead and/or the engine stalled so the rear wheel never regained traction.
I'm done with this thread - anybody else want to chime in?

Everyone says that if you lock the rear and skid that tire, stay on the brake 'till you stop. .Do not release it or a high side may result. Or 'till you at least get the bike back in a perfectly straight line if that's possible, and going slower, before releasing the brake.

We are also talking semantics here - locking up the wheel so that it can't rotate, is one thing. Locking up the wheel so it loses traction and skids is another thing. Either way, what we are talking about, what I am talking about, is the rear tire losing traction and skidding. If you are skidding, stay on the rear brake, keep the clutch pulled in. Do not allow the rear wheel to regain traction with power applied. Very simple.

Maybe you ride differently than everybody else by not pulling in the clutch in a panic stop, but lets talk the same language.

[Easy Rider]

Why would you want to fight the engine (powering the bike forward) with the rear brake if you're making a panic stop?
Why would you want to overpower the engine with the rear brake and stall it, locking up the rear wheel and forcing it to skid?


OK, this has a familiar ring to it so I think it's time to COOL IT.

What I am trying to tell you is that, as a practical matter, based on maybe two dozen real life experiences......NEITHER of those two things happens....at least not to ME.......ever.

I find it is better FOR ME to clamp on both brakes as fast and hard as I can and then when the weight shifts forward and the back skids, make an adjustment.

I'm not necessarily recommending that to anybody......except the part about screwing with anything except the brakes. If you can practice enough so that pulling the clutch is automatic, then fine......but if you have to give one electron's THOUGHT to doing it then I don't think it is good.

Maybe some of the difference has to do with my very early riding on what amounted to a dirt bike. In that environment, the back slides around a LOT and you almost never pull in the clutch for anything except to shift.

"Everyone" tells new riders to stay clamped on a rear slide and I have no problem with that. I do not think, however, that much of anybody advocates that to an advanced, skilled rider (and that does NOT mean that I think I qualify as either).

How many panic stops did you say you have made ??

[mrlmd1]

I edited my previous post but it didn't come through.
What I added was a last sentence that said I'm done with this thread. Anyone else want to chime in?

[dannylightning]

so this has turned in to a big disagreement. well im gonna keep doing what im doing, it works for me. when the breaks are on some what hard the bike is rapidly slowing down. so down shifting while rapidly slowing down is not gonna harm your engine or lock up your rear wheel unless you click down a few gears at once instead of one at a time. after both breaks are applied its not hard to (down shift) let the clutch in and out a few times and click your foot down a few times. what else do you got to do while your setting there flying towards a stationary object with both breaks applied. doing something keeps your mind of o crap im gonna crash lol and like i already said your slowing down fast so when you down shift just as fast as your slowing down you get no over reving engine or locking back wheel.

as stated by some one else the rear break is not as good as the gz on my bike. it either slows you down a little bit or goes to full lock witch happened to me the first day i had the bike. and i skidded out for a good 2 or 3 seconds. i almost missed my street and jamed on the breaks hard and what i got was sssskkkkkkiiiiiiidddddddddddd. that rear break is almost worthless.

i think i'm done with this post too. if downshifting is really such a bad idea and it ends up killing me, what ever no big deal. but i aint ever heard of any one dying from downshifting. hell when i was a kid they said eating the skin off a potato gives you cancer now they say its full of vitamins and such crap. i don't know what that has to do with any thing but i put it out there, enjoy!!

[patrick_777]

Are you not even using your front brake?

Go take a BRC class...you seriously sound like you need it.

[BusyWeb]

1 never try to skid your back tire and jam on the front break instead of the rear breaks haha :tongue:


Ha ha ha, strange.
I made some rear tire lock today.....
I was little hurry to ge my lunch; it's city street in LA; and saw the trafic light Green (actually Left Turn Arrow) wanted pass it.
What the **** situaltion, right just after my throttle up >> Green Light Goes out >>> ha ha ha
I had to stop as quickly as possible.
Usually, I don't use Rear Break to slow down, but today I put down my right foot hard along with Front Brake.
A short skidding, but released rear break right after the skid sound.
Then, I made hard Front Brake(emergency stopping)...

It's very strange, when I met some situation I always show bad habbits on braking or clutching of bike. ^^;

I do use Front Brake 95% for the slowing down from high speed, rarely use rear brake at high speed.
And use Rear Brake only for the Slow Riding situations; like crowded city street at the front of signal, when lane spliting, at the parking lot, or else similar slow running situations.
Don't know if my practice on braking is good or not, but it works for me.....

[alantf]

the rear break is not as good as the gz on my bike. it either slows you down a little bit or goes to full lock

Is this a design fault from the factory? (in which case, why hasn't anybody sued the hell out of them, following an accident?) or is it something that can (and should) be rectifiable? :??:

[dannylightning]

Are you not even using your front brake?

Go take a BRC class...you seriously sound like you need it.

damn right i use my front breaks.

[dannylightning]

the rear break is not as good as the gz on my bike. it either slows you down a little bit or goes to full lock
rectifiable? :??:

what do you mean by that. ??

[alantf]

It means "can it be rectified?" i.e. "can it be put right?"

Is it a factory fault, or can it be repaired, to make it work Properly? :)

[New GZ250]

Stupid is as stupid does. :crash:
New bike and pushing it to over 100MPH TOO!
MSF class would be a terrific idea!
Good luck.

[dannylightning]

It means "can it be rectified?" i.e. "can it be put right?"

Is it a factory fault, or can it be repaired, to make it work Properly? :)

i only jammed on that break hard once and got the skid. tomorrow im gonna go out and give it a real test to see how well the rear break actually preforms. but as of right now i think it has much to be desired, i adjusted my front break a little bit and it breaks strong when you need it to it just had some gunk on the plunger and the break lever is adjustable how far away from the hand grip you want it or how close to the grip you want it. it put it further away from the hand grip and it seems to have more stopping power now. maybe i just need to mess with the rear break a little bit too. might just need adjusted. ill see what happens tomorrow.

thanks for calling me stupid newgz250, i appreciate that,
all im gonna say the ride and stability of my volusia is far superior compared to the gz, on bikes like this yo can comfortably go over 100mph.

live a little people, a helicopter could come down chop your head off while your standing at your mail box tomorrow. that actually happened ,no joke. a chopper crashed on this guy and killed him while he was standing at his mail box listening to his i pod. i found this information in a post of head phone related accidents and why you should not wear headphones out in publick. people don't hear things and get hurt or killed because of it. i would much rather die going 100mph on my motorcycle than die from wearing head phones. every thing is dangerous, your every day activities are dangerous. shit happens, you just got to hope it don't happen to you.

live you live have fun and be a dare devil today cus you never know what tomorrow may bring. and when your time comes it would be nice to at least say you had some fun and did not set around and worry about every thing.

im not going to take the class. my buddy is gonna copy these riding with the pro's videos and give them to me. its every thing they teach in the class and more

[alantf]

i would much rather die going 100mph on my motorcycle than die from wearing head phones.

Lemme get this straight!...... So I'm doing 100mph wearing headphones? I'm twice as likely to die?

I'm standing at my mailbox, wearing just one earphone! I'm half as likely to die? :whistle: :crackup

The mailbox gets my vote! :lol:

[dannylightning]

i would much rather die going 100mph on my motorcycle than die from wearing head phones.

Lemme get this straight!...... So I'm doing 100mph wearing headphones? I'm twice as likely to die?

I'm standing at my mailbox, wearing just one earphone! I'm half as likely to die? :whistle: :crackup

The mailbox gets my vote! :lol:

ha that not correct at all. some one says stupid is as stupid does about me going 100mph, that was in a different thread. so im saying any thing can happen. have some fun now even if its a bit dangerous cus something you would never expect could hit you just like that and you would not even know it. i never said any thing about wearing head phones while riding a bike.

[alantf]

i never said any thing about wearing head phones while riding a bike.

Danny .......... I was making a joke (or rather - TRYING to) I suppose English & American humour must be 180º apart! :bang:

[greenhorn]

Kudos to w.w. & e.r. for speaking their piece, laying low & bowing out. Class acts. I enjoy & learn from your posts.

Thanks! :wow:

Mary

[dannylightning]

i never said any thing about wearing head phones while riding a bike.

Danny .......... I was making a joke (or rather - TRYING to) I suppose English & American humour must be 180º apart! :bang:

sorry, not in a good mood at all, decided im quititng my job after the shit the put me threw yesterday. I moved back to ohio with my job, finally got all my training taken care of so i could get all dot certified and start driving a truck again on the street. the rout they put me on yesterday covered 3 whole counties and i was the only driver out there. basically its was like this. get on the road and head to my first 2 stops, they were in a town called median, i started off in cleveland. i had 1.5 hours to get the 2 stops. so i drive all the way there, get to my first stop. got it, get my second stop, i now have 30 min to get to the next town and to the next stop before stop closes for the day, well it's about a 45 min drive just to get to the next stop. so i get there late, thankfully they were still there. filled up 80% of my truck with boxes from that place. than i get a call saying look threw your truck some one left 2 envelopes in that truck that need to be deliverd. find them and deliver them. so i do, at this point im way behind. i know where none of these other towns are even at. i have 2 big map books that cover the 3 counties. any stop could have been on any town covered in those 2 books., sure i can turn to a page and find where the street is but after i find the street on the map all i got is that page with no direction on how to get there, the map don't tell you that, you cant fold out the pages and see im here now this is how i get there so i got to figure out how the hell to get to the other places.

i was lost and behind all day kept getting turned around and messed up. no way to get all these stops off with all the driving it takes to get from one town to another. i was blind out there with no idea where the hell i was. never even heard of some of these towns.

i was so pissed off by the end of the day when i went to get gas and the credit card machine on the gas pump was broken i threw the heavy duty metal gas cap on the ground and smashed the whole side of it in and started screaming curs words in the parking lot. i got back to the station and there was one guy there. im in there screaming f this and f that than i call up my manager and pretty much do the same thing to him.

im not going to deal with this kind of stress and abuse. last time i worked here all the routs were small and you still had to run your ass off big time. it was hard physically and mentally. now they way they have this place set up its pretty much inpossible to get these routs done. especially for me, the guy they are sending out thee with no training and im pretty much out there blind. here are your stops, look up the zip code for each one, find it on the map and go deliver/pick it up. they got rid of a lot of them and combined those routs on to other routs. now most all of the routs cover 3-5 zip codes instead of just 1. on Saturday they only have one drive out doing pickups when they used to have 10 guys out there, it was still a big area on saturday but not the whole freking state of ohio.

i have only been driving the truck again for 3 days and the first thing i do when i get up in the morning is start stressing out about this job. even today on my day off. im still so upset, pissed and stressed out over yesterday and the tought of going in there and doing this crap again.

every one said this job has turned in to a big pile of crap and i finally under stand why. they werent lying. than the senior manager there is the most horrible person ever. people do every thing possible to avoid the guy. some set out in thir cars and wait till its punch in time to come in the building. even the other managers are scared of this guy.

[JWR]

GPS????

[mrlmd1]

GPS???? :plus1:
I'm sorry but you're not going to get a whole lot of sympathy here when you get frustrated and go bust up some of the company's equipment and quit. At least you have a job.
If you have a problem you should try and fix it, like with a GPS or a book of local maps or getting directions or laying out your route before you leave, instead of having a temper tantrum like a little kid. It's much easier to throw a raging fit and quit.
And if you break their equipment, not only will you have to pay for it, but what kind of recommendation do you think you'll get from them for your next job?
Analyze your problem and try a do something constructive to help yourself instead of behaving poorly and posting that kind of stuff on here.

[music man]

Not only that, how much does this job pay, if you don't mind me asking. If it is more than 3-4 bucks an hour over minimum wage, then you should clutch it with both hands, and thank god every morning that you get to go do it. Most people have jobs that suck way worse than that, and make just enough money to keep you from starving to death so you can wake up to your miserable existence one more day to do it again.

[alantf]

(note :- I was an electrician, but used to drive buses when there was no work around - just to feed my family!) :)

There were millions out of work, so nobody could afford to have electrical work done. I was lucky that I had a bus licence. :itsokay:

Heard on the news that the figures NOW, in England, are the worst for 14 years. Hope it's better in America, & you've got another job lined up :2tup:

[patrick_777]

Heard on the news that the figures NOW, in England, are the worst for 14 years. Hope it's better in America,

It's not...yet.

[dannylightning]

Not only that, how much does this job pay, if you don't mind me asking. If it is more than 3-4 bucks an hour over minimum wage, then you should clutch it with both hands, and thank god every morning that you get to go do it. Most people have jobs that suck way worse than that, and make just enough money to keep you from starving to death so you can wake up to your miserable existence one more day to do it again.

ok now that im all calmed down ill explain this. i make 16.32 a hour. when i was younger i got anxiety attacks, they went away. well they have came back. when i start to get a little stressed out and i'm fighting one off all day long and some times i cant fight it off and bam. im out there driving a big truck flipping out. anxiety attacks can really put a major hurt on a person.

i called my manager tonight and explained to the guy what is going on and why i called him freaking out Saturday. i told him i dont really want to quit my job but if im out there having these attacks because of the job i may need some other type of position with the company. in all honesty no one should be out there driving around when there all off balance, getting tunnel vision, pissed off and feeling like there gonna fall over and die while driving the truck. those are just a few things that happen when you get anxiety attacks. basically a anxiety attack is when your body pumps out way to much adrenaline and it pretty much over loads your body with it.

so there is really more to the story than me getting pissed off and stressed out. and about the GPS comment. we are not allowed to have them. they say it is a major distraction using something like that while we are driving. so no gps systems allowed they dont want to risk some one being in a hurry and flying down the road trying to mess with the gps.

[mrlmd1]

You can use the GPS before you get out on the road, just to outline your route. Get a smaller handheld one if you need to hide it. Put in the beginning and ending destinations then write out the directions. Are you allowed to use a map? Get some.

And get some medical help or meds for your panic/anxiety attacks, you don't want to hurt someone else or yourself when you're out driving the truck or on your bike if you get pissed off. There's no excuse not to get help for a problem, especially if you recognize it.

[dannylightning]

You can use the GPS before you get out on the road, just to outline your route. Get a smaller handheld one if you need to hide it. Put in the beginning and ending destinations then write out the directions. Are you allowed to use a map? Get some.

And get some medical help or meds for your panic/anxiety attacks, you don't want to hurt someone else or yourself when you're out driving the truck or on your bike if you get pissed off. There's no excuse not to get help for a problem, especially if you recognize it.

they say no gps allowed, but than again i guess if you get one that talks to you you would not have to look at it or any thing while you were driving so i guess there would be no harm in that. i halve to get really stressed out before i actually get a full blown panic attack now a days. I'm a really laid back guy, it takes a lot to really push my buttons but for some reason this job has done it pretty much since the day i started. they expect us drivers to do the impossible and im not the only one that feels its completely rediculous what they are asking out of us these days, every one is fired up out there every day, i found some forums for fedex drivers, it was nothing but pissed off people bitching about how shitty their job is.

i went out on the road with a manager the other day and i rode passenger, he was screaming, cussing and flipping out trying to get the job done. i had to take a d.o.t. class before i could get out there and drive the truck again, so they put me out there with other drivers for a week. every one at our station flips out except for one guy. no one can figure out how this guy keeps his cool all day long every day. most of the people i have rode with were flipping out and speeding. the one lady was going 50mph in a 25mph zone pretty much all day long.

im not the only one that gets all worked up, no attacks like that out on the bike only really get them at work any more. meds dont work for me. back when my attacks were really really bad i tried to take some stuff for it (about 5 different things) and they just made things about 10 times worse.
i was looking for no sympathy. i was just venting i guess. i called the thing my manager told me to and they want to send me to a councilor so i guess im gonna go and see what happens. the thing is i have no problems in my life, never really have. breaking up with girl friends is about as bad as its ever got in my life. i got about every thing i want and need. i got great friends and plenty of them and over all i have had it pretty easy. i get a little drpressed some times but hey i think every one dies from time to time. when i go i'm sure there gonna ask if this ever happened or if that ever happened and just about every thing they ask me is gonna be a no.

[dannylightning]

sorry about all that but any ways, i tested out that rear break on my bike to see what its really got

it's really not that bad, you do got to jam on it pretty hard but it slowed down quite nicely, just got to watch you don't jam on just a little to much and skid. doesn't seem take much to go from working great to a skid.

[bonehead]

Hakuna Matata!

[dannylightning]

Hakuna Matata!

i wish there weren't. haha.

[Water Warrior 2]

im not going to take the class. my buddy is gonna copy these riding with the pro's videos and give them to me. its every thing they teach in the class and more[/quote]

I agree that riding videos may be of great help to improve riding skills. BUT everything they teach in class and more !!!! No No No, and here is why. You do not have a skilled trained professional instructor watching you ride and critiquing your abilities and skills. You do feel confident I am sure. I did feel confident until a skilled professional instructor pointed out my lack of certain skills and good habits (since corrected)that have since made riding far more enjoyable and safe. A video can not watch you ride. A video can not point out something that may bite you 6 months down the road.
You say you have taken training and safety courses for your job as a truck driver. Did you have a professional instructor there at the time ? Sure you did. A bike is no different, it is another form of travel that needs to be taught to get the most out of it. And yes we can talk about Hogue and his Proficient Motorcycling. Even he was not totally self taught but expanded immensely on other's tips, training and experiences. He did spend a great amount of time experimenting and getting it just right for the rest of us. There are good reasons why skilled riders go to refresher courses and track days or experienced rider courses with their own bikes. There is always more to learn. Just don't learn it the hard way.

[dannylightning]

im not going to take the class. my buddy is gonna copy these riding with the pro's videos and give them to me. its every thing they teach in the class and more

I agree that riding videos may be of great help to improve riding skills. BUT everything they teach in class and more !!!! No No No, and here is why. You do not have a skilled trained professional instructor watching you ride and critiquing your abilities and skills. You do feel confident I am sure. I did feel confident until a skilled professional instructor pointed out my lack of certain skills and good habits (since corrected)that have since made riding far more enjoyable and safe. A video can not watch you ride. A video can not point out something that may bite you 6 months down the road.
You say you have taken training and safety courses for your job as a truck driver. Did you have a professional instructor there at the time ? Sure you did. A bike is no different, it is another form of travel that needs to be taught to get the most out of it. And yes we can talk about Hogue and his Proficient Motorcycling. Even he was not totally self taught but expanded immensely on other's tips, training and experiences. He did spend a great amount of time experimenting and getting it just right for the rest of us. There are good reasons why skilled riders go to refresher courses and track days or experienced rider courses with their own bikes. There is always more to learn. Just don't learn it the hard way.[/quote]


i did have a professional instructor with my work defensive driving class . he rode in the truck with me for about a hour and when we were done he said good good, you need to check your rear view mirrors a little more often. you should look at them every 5-8 seconds. and than he said make sure to pay attention to every street sighns that you pass, that way if halve to go to that street some time you might remember where it was. honestly that instructor did me no good live, except when he was explaining all the stuff they have on paper, most of it i knew any ways. but it did refresh some of my memory about the smith driving system. but as a fedex driver it's just run run run run run all day long. most people probably don't do any of it, a lot of the time they just need to run back to the truck hop in and go, no time to waist at that job.

but i do see your point,

[dannylightning]

here are a few more tips, always keep your eyes moving, constantly look ahead 15 seconds while riding so you can be completely aware of what is going on up ahead, dont just stare at the car in front of you the whole time.

the 5 keys to the smith system are

aim high in steering- avoid collision by seeing, evaluating and acting upon all information available.

get the big picture- fewer mistakes are made when you have the complete traffic picture

keep your eyes moving- propper road scanning techniques seperate safe drivers from the ones that make costly errors daily

leave your self a out- all that separates drivers from collision is space, use that to your advantage,

make sure they see you- seek eye contact and use flashers at appropriate times.


look for parked cars with break lights on, look for people inside of the car, look for ehaust smoke, that parked car might be ready to pull out. and those are all indications that the car may be ready to pull out.

when you see something that may be a hazard up ahead you will plenty of time to react, so looking 15 seconds ahead of you is a great idea

when you approach a car pulling out of a side street or parking lot. let off the throttle and cover the breaks encase they pull out and you need to stop, covering your breaks can speed up your reaction time. any time you are coming up on a light even if it is green you should cover your breaks just encase that thing turns red like that. again speeded up reactont time. when coming up to a light and it turns yellow, determine if you have enought time to stop. if not you are at the point of no return, at the point of no return, step on the gas and go, do not decide to try and stop you may slide in to the intersection or something along the lines of that

look around on the sidewalk and in yards, if you see kids playing in with a ball up ahead you will know they are there and to be cautious, kids are unpredictable. you never know when one might run out in to the street after their ball. also be aware of people walking on the side walk and bicycles, you never know what there gonna do either.

if you see that there is a red light up ahead you can start slowing down early, saves on your breaks and its a good habit to get in to.

always stop at least 1 car leingth behind the guy in front of you. if you see your gonna get rear ended or any thing like that you have a space cousin to work with, if the guy in front of you breaks down at the stop. you have left your self room for a out you can just drive around him.

check out rear view mirrors every 5-8 seconds so you know what is going on behind you.

when following behind a car you should always give your self a 4 second following distance on the freeway, when a car gets to a mark, say s street sign cout 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, and see how longs it takes you to get to that street sign you should counted to at least 4 one thousand. when you got up to that street sign.

[alantf]

you have a space cousin to work with,

??????????????????????????

You mean, like, your father's brother's son is Buzz Aldrin, & he's gonna get a job at your factory? :lol: (joke!)

Seriously, for a moment, Danny - What the hell do you mean? :??:

[dannylightning]

you have a space cousin to work with,

??????????????????????????

You mean, like, your father's brother's son is Buzz Aldrin, & he's gonna get a job at your factory? :lol: (joke!)

Seriously, for a moment, Danny - What the hell do you mean? :??:

lmao. a space cushion