If the bike isn't charging correctly, how many miles?

[thepaintbox]

If the bike isn't charging correctly, how many miles would I get before all was lost?

I'm inclined to think it's an issue with this new battery (6 weeks old, started farting a week ago) because the bike seems to start better if it's been running for a while. I imagine a bike that isn't charging well would have the opposite issue. If she sits overnight I'm inclined to say a brief prayer before hitting the little button.

No noticeable change in performance once she's going.

Sorry if I'm poking a dead horse.

[alanmcorcoran]

There are so many variables here that I think it's pretty unrealistic to get an accurate "miles" assessment. Here are a couple of observations/notes you might find useful:

1) All GZ's "start better" when they have been running a while. Probably has more to do with the engine being warm, fuel not evaporated, Oil hot, etc. than the charge on the battery.
2) I recommend you learn how to push start the bike. If your battery is iffy, it's a skill that you will need.
3) Others are going to ask you how you charged up the new battery. You can get a decent battery charger relatively cheaply. Charge the thing overnight on the low setting.
4) Overnight should not be a problem unless you live in some arctic climate. Even a week shouldn't really be a problem. I've let mine go a month, and it was definitely harder to start, but I still got it going without a push start.

How far are you going once you ride it? Have you added any "accessories" that use juice? Did you replace the headlight bulbs with brighter ones?

[thepaintbox]

Nothing on the bike has been modified in terms of electronics.

The battery was charged a few days ago. I've taken two 10mile trips and two 3mile trips since then.

Would a bad charge from the bike cause the bike to not run after a distance?

[mrlmd1]

Can you clarify what you are talking about? I'm having a hard time following you. What do you mean by "a new 6 week old battery started farting a week ago"? Why do you think it's a battery problem?

If you're having trouble starting it after it sits overnight - like how do you mean? It turns over but won't catch? It turns over very slowly?

First off, most GZ's need a little choke to start them off if they've been sitting even overnight. Once they're run and warmed up, they'll start right up without the choke even hours later. Are you using the choke in the morning, even a little?
Answer that, then we'll get to a possible battery issue.

By the way, if you had a bad battery you probably wouldn't be able to start the bike more than a few times, then it would be dead enough to not turn over the starter motor, even if you went our for "a while".

[thepaintbox]

I bought the battery 6 weeks ago and it worked perfectly up to a week ago.

The bike does turn over, but very slowly. It takes a bit for it to catch.

Yes, i do use the choke to cold start. I've been riding the bike almost every day and she always starts pretty much right on the button (that is, until now).

I've gotten it to start every time I tried, about 5 or 6 times since the issues started.

[Easy Rider]

The bike does turn over, but very slowly. It takes a bit for it to catch.


Well, as you suspected, something is clearly amiss.
Check the connections at BOTH ends of both the main cables first; one may just not be very tight.
THEN.....do you have a charger ??
Did you install the battery yourself?
Was it charged before installation?

Sounds like you need to charge it good once and then if the problem continues, you need to get both battery and charging tested.

[thepaintbox]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I don't have a charger, but I can get to one easily. I got the battery and it worked for a month. Then one day i was starting it to drive to the mechanic's and it was weak. he recharged it for me and it started to have the issue again about 36 hours.

I'm going to extend the thought that if the bike wasn't charging well I'd have not been able to start the bike by now. That is, I'd have worn it down already. I think it's charging but not holding onto the charge well.

And wouldn't a bad alternator/charge cause the bike to well...not really run after about 50 miles?

[mrlmd1]

Bring the battery back to the mechanic or to a battery store - they will check it for free. Charge up the battery on a 2 amp charger for 6-8 hours, let it sit for 1/2 hr, then put it on a load tester. It will tell you if it's bad or not right there.

To simply check the bike's charging system, run it at mid throttle and measure the voltage at the battery terminals which is the easiest access point. If you're getting somewhere around 14 V, the charging system's fine.

I would bet you have a bad battery, and this is probably the 10th time on here I say this -- A new sealed AGM battery, which is all you can get now for a bike, MUST BE FULLY CHARGED BEFORE INITIAL USE, or it will fail prematurely, usually very quickly, and not be able to absorb a full charge to it;s designed capacity. Do not let the dealer fill up a new battery with acid, tell you to let it sit for 2 hours, then use it - it will fail, guaranteed, unless you fully charge it up first before use.
Loose battery connections can cause this, as well as poor charging, but usually lead to total electrical failure which may be an intermittent problem, rather than what you are describing. Check out the battery.

Get yourself an inexpensive trickle charger just to have for emergencies or for winter storage. They all come with wires that can be left permanently attached to the battery and hidden away. with a quick disconnect plug on them to attach to the charger without having to open up the battery box,

[Easy Rider]

And wouldn't a bad alternator/charge cause the bike to well...not really run after about 50 miles?

No, not necessarily. It may not have failed completely; might still be charging but just not enough. Same for loose cables; same for battery. :cool:

[Easy Rider]

To simply check the bike's charging system, run it at mid throttle and measure the voltage at the battery terminals which is the easiest access point. If you're getting somewhere around 14 V, the charging system's fine.

A new sealed AGM battery, which is all you can get now for a bike,

Mmmmmm......really?? I find it rather hard to believe that the ONLY type of motorcycle battery you can get for ANY bike, GZ included, is AGM. Are you sure?? :)

As for the charging system test, what you said is true......but the inverse may not be.

Have you put a meter on yours lately? I have found that modern voltage regulators are MUCH more sensitive than old ones and can better detect when charging is not needed. Both my GZ and the current Honda actually show a slightly higher voltage at idle than at mid-range engine speed.......when the battery is fully charged.

So, the point IS that if you do NOT get above 13V at mid-range engine speed, it doesn't necessarily mean that the charging system is not right. You almost have to run the battery down a bit to get a good test.......at least in my recent experience.

[mrlmd1]

The batteries are sealed I believe for safety, to avoid an acid spill if tipped over or in an accident. Only one of the reasons, the other is new technology.

What you said about the charging system is probably true, What I meant, was to hook a voltage meter to the battery terminals, measure the voltage, (it should be at least 12.8V), start the bike, you will see a voltage drop to maybe 10-11V on the meter as the starter turns over, then if you run the bike right then and there, there should be a 14V output to recharge up what was just used up, If you were out riding for a 1/2 hour, it would probably be reading less, like a trickle charge, just replacing that which is needed to keep the bike running.

[thepaintbox]

Yeah...I'm going to get the bike on a voltmeter. The leads are good and everything. I'm not too worried as of right now, but annoyed.

I mean, the bike is still running.

[Easy Rider]

The batteries are sealed I believe for safety,

(it should be at least 12.8V),

OK, maybe all the bike batteries are "sealed" now but that doesn't mean that they are AGM.
All AGM batteries are sealed but the reverse is NOT true.

And a "standard" 12V. wet cell battery (lead acid) is 12.6V nominal; 2.1V X 6 cells.

If you start adding in things like calcium, I think the float voltage is even a bit less.......but those exotic formulations probably aren't common in bike batteries. :cool:

[mrlmd1]

I just looked at Yuasa's battery site - ALL their motorcycle batteries, from the little Suzuki 250cc's up to the big bikes are sealed AGM batteries. Practically all of Exide's motorcycle batteries are AGM. I haven't checked on any other manufacturers, but I would bet they're all the same.
2.1V is the minimum for a wet cell charged 12V battery, some measure higher. I checked.
It's not worth arguing over 0.2V.

[Easy Rider]

but I would bet they're all the same.

It's not worth arguing over 0.2V.

Don't sell WallyWorld short. My guess is they still have a cheap Chinese rip-off for half the price.
Been too quiet here lately; might as well argue about .2V as anything else!!! :roll: :crackup

[Water Warrior 2]

thepaintbox, this will apply to the initial start of the day. Always start the bike in neutral. If it is in gear there will be some drag in the clutch plates which will add extra load to the starter. The engine will not turn over quite as fast and make starting a little hit and miss. Less load on the starter means better power for the ignition system to fire. If you are already starting in neutral just disregard my ramblings.

[mrlmd1]

ER said - "Been too quiet here lately; might as well argue about .2V as anything else!!! ":roll: :crackup
Before, I had said - "It's not worth arguing over 0.2V."
But .3V, that's a different story. :poke2: :neener:

[thepaintbox]

yeah...i'm starting in neutral. i'm one of those kids that was MSFed into all the good habits.

well, this morning she didn't start. i'm going to charge the battery as soon as i can find someone that has a charger (kid two doors down has two 1200evo harleys and a gsxr, so i'm thinking him) and call my mechanic to see what he says.

while she didn't start, she put up a good effort. i tried to bump start her, but it didn't take. i've never been able to get that going.

Run position, 2nd gear, stand up
down hill a bit of speed
drop the clutch and...

i'm rolling downhill with the clutch out.

on another note, is the neutral light meant to go out when she is starting?

[alantf]

is the neutral light meant to go out when she is starting?

Nope! It might dim, ever so slightly, but it shouldn't go out. This is just another pointer to "bad battery"

[alanmcorcoran]

You can start it with jumper cables and your car battery if you need to take it somewhere to get it charged up. Jump it just like a car. Be careful not to stick your face into the business parts when you are connecting the jumper cables - it's possible for Bad Things to happen if you have a defective battery.

Make sure you have the kill switch set to "on" and the key in the right position when you are push starting it. If second doesn't work, try third (and first! I had the best luck in first, although others swear by second.) I even started my Strat up once with the clutch when I stalled it just before heading downhill.

[mrlmd1]

Again, as I've said on here before, if you jump the bike from a car battery, DO NOT HAVE THE CAR ENGINE RUNNING, like you would if you're jumping another car. The battery will be enough to easily turn over and start the bike. Disconnect the cables as soon as the bike starts. If you have the car engine running, you can easily fry everything on the bike from the high alternator output, if you have a short or electrical problem anywhere, and possibly burn out the starter motor. Just hook the cables battery to battery, (+) to(+), (-) to (-) terminals, connect and disconnect (-) first.

[thepaintbox]

Today i got her bump started (in first?) and put about five miles on her. After, I decided to try and start it to see if the battery was better for the ride. She started up like nothing was wrong.

In a few hours, I'll try again, and i'm sure she'll not start well at all.

[thepaintbox]

okay, couple hours later and she had to be bump started again. also, she was cutting out every time i slowed for a stop sign.

[Easy Rider]

okay, couple hours later and she had to be bump started again. also, she was cutting out every time i slowed for a stop sign.

Not much point in continuing this. When a battery looses power while it is just sitting for a short period like that, the odds are about a million to one that the battery itself is bad.

Take one new battery and call us in the morning. :shocked:

[bonehead]

okay, couple hours later and she had to be bump started again. also, she was cutting out every time i slowed for a stop sign.

Not much point in continuing this. When a battery looses power while it is just sitting for a short period like that, the odds are about a million to one that the battery itself is bad.

Take one new battery and call us in the morning. :shocked:
And drink plenty of fluids!!

[mrlmd1]

And don't forget to take the 2 aspirins.

[thepaintbox]

yeah...you got it. i took the battery to be tested and she said it was faulty and that they'd replace it.

i kinda cheered for joy, knowing it wasn't a list or worse problems.

[Water Warrior 2]

Upside of this. You get a new free replacement battery. You got some experience pushing the bike and you now know how to jump start with another battery. Win win win. :rawk:

[mrlmd1]

Don't forget to charge it up first like I said, or you'll be back there again real soon.
Do not listen to her if she said it's ready to go - trust me and charge it up fully first!