MPG trouble and B-12 chemtool info + MPG Tips?

[kaput]

Hi,
I have been noticing that my bike has been getting really low miles per gallon (45mpg) and I want to do something about it.

I have already regapped the spark plug and (this may make certain people cringe) took part of the restriction off of the air filter.
I am guessing that my filter is dirtier than it looks and not letting enough air in. I have a new one coming in tomorrow hopefully. I suspect this will make a sizable difference, or hope at least.

I actually got the little GZ up to 80 miles per hour on the freeway yesterday wich was a big improvement over my 73-74 record before. I have also am up to 52 mpg which is better but nowhere near the 70-80 mpg everyone here reports.

I am 205 pounds and I also push the bike pretty hard so I suspect that has some bearing on my low MPG but figure I should at least be getting 60mpg pushing it as hard as I do at my size.

So today I filled the tank using the 3.7oz of B-12 chemtool. How many tanks should make it clean?

Also do you 70-80 mpg small people ride super conservatively? Can some folks my weight report their MPG?

I could see adding 10mpg by riding alot slower but what fun would that be ;)

Any MPG tips?

[patrick_777]

Conservative riding is by far the best way to get higher mpg.

[bonehead]

Bought mine new 15 months ago. I check my milage every time i fill up. the best I ever got was 62mpg, and it is usually around 55 to 58 mpg. I weigh 250, and drive mine at 60mph on my rte to work. Depending on how many miles you have on your bike, I would think 2-3 treatments or B-12 should do the trick. BTW, I got my best milage(62) on the tank with B-12.

[Easy Rider]

I actually got the little GZ up to 80 miles per hour on the freeway yesterday wich was a big improvement over my 73-74 record before. I have also am up to 52 mpg which is better but nowhere near the 70-80 mpg everyone here reports.


Not everybody reports 70-80 mpg; very few, in fact.
Average is mid-60's with mixed riding. Most GZ riders tend to be conservative.

A large load coupled with a heavy hand can have a HUGE impact on mileage.
I don't think there is anything wrong with your bike if it will go 80 on the freeway (whoosh, there goes your mileage). :shocked:

One tank with B12 is probably enough unless you have a serious problem......like won't idle or runs rough, which it sounds like you do NOT have.

Check your tire pressure !!!

[burkbuilds]

I weigh 210 and I averaged 70 mpg for over 10,000 miles on my GZ but the one time I rode it WOT to Atlanta (about 125 miles from my house) I only got upper 50's so that may be all anyone could get driving that fast. When I was averaging 70mpg I rarely went over 55mph and no jack rabbit starts either. By the way, if you want to drive wide open most of the time you might not like the results it may have on the GZ. At least two people on here who rode that way blew the engine in less than 6,000 miles. I don't know of very many motors of any size that will hold up to WOT for a lot of miles. Those guys at the drag strip rebuild those things every week sometimes!

I loved my GZ, but the need to do a lot of driving at upper highway speeds was the main reason I ended up with a larger displacement motor that can do 75 and only be about 1/2 way to it's rev limit. The GZ is a great bike but it was not designed to cruise at 75 mph all day long! If that's what you want to do I'd recommend selling the GZ or trading it in and finding a bike that is designed to run 75+

[Easy Rider]

I ended up with a larger displacement motor that can do 75 and only be about 1/2 way to it's rev limit.

So that kind of implies that your Vulcan will do 150 !!! :roll:
If you haven't tried it yet, I'm betting that it won't get anywhere CLOSE.
It's gonna run out of useable HP before it red-lines........wind resistance and all that.
My guess is that 90 is about tops. :cool:

[kaput]

Thanks for the input.
I think I would be happy with 60 mpg, hopefully the new air filter and the b-12 do the trick.
I did go to the local Triumph dealer today, sat on a really cool and retro looking Bonneville!
$9300 out the door. :cry: Gotta stick with Suzi for a while till I can afford Bonnie
I think I will heed the advise here and ease up a little (I actually rarely go over 65 but do like to get to top speed quickly)
...but not too much :)

Glad to know my numbers are not completely out of wack. :rawk:

[Water Warrior 2]

Lynda got 80 MPG U.S. on our first trip of 4 days. No high speeds and conservative riding throughout the trip. No headwinds and she was lightly loaded. My Vstrom was really loafing along and got 60 MPG U.S. Just gotta love Japanese engineering.

[burkbuilds]

I ended up with a larger displacement motor that can do 75 and only be about 1/2 way to it's rev limit.

So that kind of implies that your Vulcan will do 150 !!! :roll:
If you haven't tried it yet, I'm betting that it won't get anywhere CLOSE.
It's gonna run out of useable HP before it red-lines........wind resistance and all that.
My guess is that 90 is about tops. :cool:

Don't know, don't have any desire to find out! I'm very happy that it's turning comparatively low rpms at 75 mph, a speed I could not even maintain on the hills with the GZ. I don't have a tach on her and I don't know what the factory "red line" would be even if I did, but she's no where near her top rpm at 75 and that was my goal. I did have the dealer swap out the front sprocket at the 500 mile service just to drop my rpms even more since I was confident that she had all the power I needed to run 75 all day without the slightly lower factory gear ratio. I've taken her up some pretty good hills on I-75 since then and had no trouble maintaining 75 mph with a lot of "head room" left.

[Easy Rider]

I've taken her up some pretty good hills on I-75 since then and had no trouble maintaining 75 mph with a lot of "head room" left.

I have mixed feelings about what I am about to say...........
Next time I'm in your neighborhood, I think we should swap bikes just for a short ride
HOWEVER.....
The last time I did that with a guy in Georgia, to demonstrate the 16T front on my GZ, he promptly disappeared, never to be heard from again. :shocked:

[burkbuilds]

Do you mean he stole your bike? Wow, that stinks! Anyway, I'd love to have you drop by anytime Easy, and I won't steal your bike and I'm confident you won't steal my bike either!
My son in law has a Shadow 750 and I've ridden it, really nice bike but a very different feel from my little Vulcan 500 so I'd love a chance to ride your 650 and compare them all. By the way, your Shadow is one really great looking bike!

[Easy Rider]

Do you mean he stole your bike?

By the way, your Shadow is one really great looking bike!

:oops: :roll:

No, my bad, poor wording!! No theft involved.

I "met" him here; we met in person and had a nice little ride, including a short exchange of machines. He posted again once after that I believe, indicating he was really impressed with the different feel of the 16T front sprocket.......and then never posted again.

Thanks. I never did care much for RED bikes......but now I do. Funny how that works.

I have mixed feelings about all the shiny chrome though; it kind of forces me to actually CLEAN it once in a while!! :cry: :biggrin:

[alantf]

a very different feel from my little Vulcan 500

What's it like, riding a bike with a 6 speed gearbox? Does it seem like a LOT more gear changing than the gz? I've never ridden anything with a 6 speed gearbox - in fact the gz is the first bike I've ridden with 5 gears. All my other bikes have had 4 gears.

Just thinking - the vulcan 500 seems to be the bike I'd have to go for if I could afford to swap. I need something VERY manouverable to get me through the traffic jams, yet able to cruise at 75 mph on the autopista when I need to (occasionally). Would you say it's what I need?

I've got a notice blu tacked over my desk - "When I win the lottery ......"

[burkbuilds]

Driving it around town you pretty much use 1-5 and only hit 6th gear when you go on the highway. It's got so much more power than the GZ that you really don't have to change as much, that is to say I could stay in 1st gear to 30 mph if I wanted to wind it up but I think the manual says about 10 mph is the recommended upshift. The manual also says to shift from 5-6 at 34 mph but I rarely shift before about 45 mph and you can ride on the highway in 5th gear no problem I was doing that without meaning to last week, just lost count and thought I was in 6th already. My biggest problem is remembering what gear I am in sometimes. Ratio for 4th gear is 1.125, 5th gear is 0.961 and 6th gear is 0.851 Overall drive ratio in top gear is 5.930 I do like one feature of the transmission a lot, if you are stopped and in 1st gear the only gear it will go into while sitting still from there is neutral, no searching for it, just pull up and it's there!

It's a pretty quiet bike (I think there is a sticker under the seat that says something about max. db of 80 at 75mph and so many feet away) and I can't really hear it well enough (I'm mostly deaf in my right ear and I don't hear well out of my left one) to determine if I need to drop down a gear sometimes until I feel it start to lug a bit. It's very maneuverable, not a big difference between how it handles and how the GZ handles though it does have a bigger turning radius in my driveway!

It does weight a bit more 472lb (214 kg) than the GZ but it's well balanced and as long as I don't drop it and have to pick it up that shouldn't matter a lot. As for cruising on the highway, I couldn't be more pleased! It does handle 75 mph with ease (120 km/h) without any strain and I haven't had any problems maintaining speed without downshifting even on some pretty steep stretches of I-75 around here.

Another consideration for me was insurance cost and for reasons best known to insurance companies there is a rate hike with anything 500cc's and up and I stayed under by 2 cc's with this bike (498 cc). My fuel mileage is pretty good about 60 mpg (25.5 Km/L) mixed driving. I will be interested in seeing what I get when I'm doing mostly highway driving at around 75 mph, might drop a bit I suspect but hopefully only a few mpg's. If you ever decide to change bikes I think you should at least include the Vulcan 500 in your short list, Easy's Shadow 650 is another one I'd recommend you test driving in that size bike.

[burkbuilds]

Thanks. I never did care much for RED bikes......but now I do. Funny how that works.

I have mixed feelings about all the shiny chrome though; it kind of forces me to actually CLEAN it once in a while!! :cry: :biggrin:

I know what you mean, I had a black GZ and I wanted a black Vulcan but apparently Kawasaki color codes each model by year and the Vulcan 500 came in my choice of red or red this year. :roll: So I got a red bike, but now I really like it better than if it was black, strange how the mind works huh? Same thing with my kids, when the first one was born I was really hoping for a son until they put that little pink bundle in my arms and then I knew that was exactly what I wanted! :)

Just blew a physics test, only finished 9 of the ten problems before time ran out, crap! Even if I got all 9 right, which remains to be seen, that's gonna drop my average in there. :cry:

[Easy Rider]

Easy's Shadow 650 is another one I'd recommend you test driving in that size bike.

It's a 600.....with a 4 speed. Kind of a different animal. Last year was '07. Smallest Shadow now is a 750.

[burkbuilds]

When I bought my Vulcan 500 they told me it was the last year (2009) they were making it. Next year, according to the dealer, the smallest Cruiser for the Kawasaki line (except for their 125cc mocel) will be a 900cc machine! Why won't they make smaller bikes? I don't really want a 900 cc machine, ever! Don't see a need for it in my life. Don't really understand why anybody really wants anything that big but that's their choice to make, I just wish I had more options of smaller bikes.

[Easy Rider]

...... I just wish I had more options of smaller bikes.

It's the herd mentality......and "marketing".
More profit in the bigger bikes.

Bigger is NOT always better.
The best things really DO come in smaller packages. :2tup:

Just noticed today that my dealer has TWO '09 Vulcan 500's for ~$4,499. That's about $1,000 off MSRP. Looks like a hell of a deal to me.

I was almost tempted to ask for a test ride.........just to see what they would say, mind you! :whistle:

On a sadder note, the showroom was PACKED with monster bikes; anybody smaller than Shak would look out of place on one. :cry:

Surely at least ONE of the majors will wake up and realize they are making the same dumb mistake that the car makers did......are still are doing.....with their wretched-excess mobiles. :skull:

[soapbox off]

[burkbuilds]

...... I just wish I had more options of smaller bikes.

It's the herd mentality......and "marketing".
More profit in the bigger bikes.

Bigger is NOT always better.
The best things really DO come in smaller packages. :2tup:

On a sadder note, the showroom was PACKED with monster bikes; anybody smaller than Shak would look out of place on one. :cry:

Surely at least ONE of the majors will wake up and realize they are making the same dumb mistake that the car makers did......are still are doing.....with their wretched-excess mobiles. :skull:

[soapbox off]


I was thinking the same thing! Gas is gonna go back up and these guys are building motorcycles that don't get much better gas mileage than a small car, not to mention

the obvious benefits to our country by lowering our dependence on foreign supplied oil. One of the young guys in my drafting class rides a Harley and he told me he only

gets 28 mpg's! I couldn't afford to ride if I only got 28 mpg, at least not very often or far! :cry:

[5th_bike]

I need something VERY manouverable to get me through the traffic jams, yet able to cruise at 75 mph on the autopista when I need to (occasionally). Would you say it's what I need?

I've got a notice blu tacked over my desk - "When I win the lottery ......"
You need a Moto Guzzi V7 Classic.

[alantf]

You need a Moto Guzzi V7 Classic.

No I don't. :)
HATE the styling! (a purely personal thing - each to his own)
Don't like horizontally opposed cylinders. If the bike goes over, it's the most expensive repair bill you'll ever have!
Just read the road test - ".....two up with luggage, the engine will struggle, especially in hilly terrain ....) I live in the mountains :whistle:
and all this from a 744cc engine, which will make it WAY more expensive to insure than the 498cc Vulcan.
I can't see any advantages (again, a personal view) over the Vulcan, which seems to have better overall performance with a smaller engine.
The upside is that for anyone who does want one, the price is not that much more than the Vulcan. :popcorn:

[diffluere]

Buell also quit making the Blast this year. Now the smallest bike they make is a 998cc. Why?! What are all of us beginners/small people (I'm only 5'2) going to ride if they keep getting rid of all the smaller bikes?

[Water Warrior 2]

There are still a number of cruisers out there with a low enough seat but the price of entry is more than a GZ.

[Sarris]

HD Sportster 883. You can get them pretty low and they're fast as hell for a cruiser.

Also, Kamakazi makes the 500 LTD and Yamaha makes the V-Star 650. Both are very nice small bikes.


:2tup:

[alantf]

Kamakazi makes the 500 LTD

Not really ...... 2009 is the last year of manufacture in America, & 2008 was the last year in Europe. (I was trying to get hold of one)

[dhgeyer]

Back to the original topic for a minute. Speed makes a huge difference in gas mileage. The GZ is happiest (mileage wise) at or near the slowest speed at which the engine will operate efficiently in top gear (5th). Doing a lot of riding on back roads doing 40 to 50 is where you will see the highest gas mileage. Around town is good, but not as good. Good 2 lane highways at 50 to 55 mph will give very good, but not top, gas mileage. Out on the freeway the mileage will drop dramatically. For what I use the bike to do, I'm in the 75 to 85 mpg range, and that's one big reason I bought it. I'm not a tree hugger, but I do think that energy independence is a huge and very important goal for America. We own and drive nothing but Priuses (Prii?), and have 3 of them. It bothered me that my motorcycles didn't get as good gas mileage as our cars, so I got one that does, and I feel much better about riding it, where practical, than the bigger bikes.

Couple of anecdotal data points. A couple of years ago we owned two Ninjas, a 250 and a 500. The Ninja 250 redlines upwards of 13,000 rpm's, has dual carbs, both larger than the GZ, and is, of course a twin. So, even though the displacement is the same, it's a much faster and quicker bike. I had it up to an indicated 95 once, and it wasn't done. The Ninja 500 is very close to the same bike with a bigger engine. I've owned them both, and I still have to look twice to tell them apart. Anyway, I found that the 500 actually got better mileage on the freeway going 65 or more than the 250 did. The 250 was really working, while the 500 was not at those speeds. On the other hand, riding the 250 around town, or at 40 to 50 mph it got gas mileage close to what the GZ gets used in the same way. I say close, but not equal.

Bottom line is, wind resistance increases exponentially with speed. Each bike has a speed range at which it is most efficient, and will run best and longest. Small bikes are a blast, and I will not willingly part with mine. However, certain applications will be better served with something a bit bigger.

I personally think that a 500, or maybe a 650, is about as big as anyone really needs. In the last 7 years I've had bikes from 250 cc's up to 1500 (Vulcan). If I'm really honest, there isn't that much you can do on the real big machines that you couldn't do on a 500 Vulcan or Ninja. The 500 Vulcan and Ninja have the same engine by the way, with minor tweaks to the cams to give the Vulcan a little more mid range and the Ninja a stronger high end. The 500 Vulcan has about the most comfortable factory saddle I've ever tried. Lots of people do long distance touring on them. I've done 400 mile days on the Ninja 500, although I must admit my backside was pretty sore at the end. The Suzuki DL650 (V-Strom) is used extensively for touring and for adventure touring. It gives up very little to its 1000cc brother, the DL1000. Back in ""The Day", people rode all over the U.S.A. on bikes anywhere from 250's up. Honda's first "Touring" motorcycle was the 305 Dream, which came out in, (what?) the mid 60's I think.

The bigger bikes, particularly the sport touring rigs (1000 cc's and up), are definitely more comfortable for doing lots of freeway miles. But unless you're doing a lot of that all the time, big bikes are really just typical American conspicuous consumption, which is pretty strongly built into our culture, unfortunately. My opinions, of course. Others may disagree.

Good post, dhgeyer, and I suspect you won't find too many folks who disagree with your basic premise since this is a forum for people who own/owned a small bike, after all. It seems to me, albeit as a relatively new rider, that the biggest appeal of the really larger displacement bikes is the comfort they could offer on long distance touring, but as you suggest, how many folks really do that kind of thing? Not many, I suspect.

I recently moved up to a V Star 650 Custom, and I'm happy with it overall. Got it so that I could go on the highway if I needed to and didn't feel comfortable on the highway with the GZ, but I'm having a hard time seeing how I'd need a larger displacement bike. My ass hurts after 100 miles on the stock seat, but it's time for a break then anyway, right? I guess my question is, do the folks on the big displacement cruisers/tourers ride for 300 miles, etc. without a break (I don't even do that in my car)? If not, then the need for the huge displacement bike becomes even less comprehensible to me.

Keith

[music man]

I guess my question is, do the folks on the big displacement cruisers/tourers ride for 300 miles, etc. without a break (I don't even do that in my car)?
Keith

I highly doubt that there are more than a handful of people that can say that they have ever rode 300 miles straight on a motorcycle without stopping, because first of all that is over 4 hours if you are hammerin' 70mph the whole way, plus (and here is the big reason) how many motorcycles can go 300 miles or more without running out of gas.

[dhgeyer]

I guess my question is, do the folks on the big displacement cruisers/tourers ride for 300 miles, etc. without a break (I don't even do that in my car)? If not, then the need for the huge displacement bike becomes even less comprehensible to me.
Keith

I try to take a break every hour or maybe hour and a half no matter what I'm riding or driving. Being 63, I'm not 20 anymore ;-). But, it's a good habit for anyone going long distances. Offhand I can't think of a motorcycle that will go 300 miles on a tank of gas. The Concours 1000 that I have has about as long a range as any bike I personally know of. It has a 7 1/2 gallon tank and gets gas mileage in the mid 40's, so theoretically I could just squeak out 300 miles, but I'm not about to try it.

For touring, the practical appeal of some of the larger bikes is carrying capacity, and volume of lockable storage. All the touring/sport touring bikes have lockable saddlebags that detach and become luggage, with good carrying handles like suitcases, and that open like suitcases. Apart from that, there's lots of storage in various secure compartments around the bike, notably in the fairing, plus under, and behind the seat. Add to this enough wind protection to put the rider in, essentially a protective bubble, and you have a quieter, less stressful, dryer (if it's raining) ride. People use some of the space in the fairing to add music, two way communication, drink holders, etc. Also, the sheer weight of these machines makes them less hard on the rider going over rough roads/highways. Am I the only one who has noticed that the highway system is deteriorating a little more every year? And, of course, another big advantage to the big machines is the ease and comfort with which they will carry two people. It isn't just singles who tour - a lot of couples do this also, and not all women want to ride their own. So, there are good reasons for some people to own the big machines. I've known and run into any number of people who ride 50,000 miles and more every year, and some much more than that, riding all over the USA, and the Americas.

But, all this comes at a price. The bigger bikes generally handle well enough at speed, but they are cumbersome in parking lots. If one does fall over, very few people could pick one up alone. It takes two to three men (depending on the men) to pick my Concours up, I happen to know. Wouldn't want to make a mistake out in the middle of nowhere! And, bigger bikes are more expensive to buy, run, and maintain. If you do your own wrenching, bigger, especially with a fairing, takes much longer to do routine maintenance. I can do a valve lash adjustment on the GZ in about an hour. On the Concours it takes all day to do a tune up, and more if there are any issues.

Personally, I'm about to sell the Concours. I've got a BMW R850R that has a lot of the advantages of the "Connie" without some of the disadvantages. It gets better mileage, and is a lot easier to work on. I'll use that for my longer touring, but do most of my riding on the GZ250, which is just as much fun to ride locally or on the back roads, and is a lot easier and cheaper all the way around.