Big bike handling vs. GZ handling

[Blackbird]

I have now completed most of the work in getting my Yamaha XS650 up and running. A totally different bike for sure.

As a lot of us go to a bigger bike we need to rethink on how we drive these machines. They go faster and sometimes don't stop as quick. I think some of the bigger bikes tend to drift in curves and one needs to practice on the curves if you are new to a bigger bike. My 650 does drift and I just slow down. I do look for areas where traffic is light and practice the curves. Lots of them where I live. Drifting in curves is one of the biggest reasons why bikers crash and burn (die).

Of course I still ride Raven (my GZ) all the time. It's just not happy with two-up cruising.

I must say this ... I'm impressed with the handling of the GZ and enjoy it for what it is. I will always recommend it to anyone who doesn't mind a smaller bike.

[primal]

If your bike is drifting in turns and you aren't pushing the bike to its limits, YOU NEED NEW TIRES! My KZ550 NEVER drifted in a turn, and I rode it pretty aggressively in the twisties (my chicken strips were down to 1/4" before the engine went kaput; no doubt they'd be gone now).

[Water Warrior 2]

As mentioned you may need new rubber hoops. There is probably a difference in front end geometry compared to the GZ that you also have to adapt to for cornering. Just a suggestion and I may be wrong but enter curves a little slower, give it some throttle and lean into it. This may help to settle the suspension. Also check the rear preload on the shocks. Turn it up to raise the rear a touch. You could also raise the forks in the triple tree 1/4 or 1/2 an inch for better turn in. Try one thing at a time though, multiple changes can be of no use b/c you don't know which one did the trick.

[bonehead]

Could just be the bike, too. I went on a long ride with a buddy and he let me ride his HD softail. I had a heck of a time in turns until I got used to its geometry. (Just a thought)

[Water Warrior 2]

Could just be the bike, too. I went on a long ride with a buddy and he let me ride his HD softail. I had a heck of a time in turns until I got used to its geometry. (Just a thought)

OMG, that is quite a transition in size.

And on that note I am outta here. Sunshine, warm temps and my mountains are calling me. Life is good to an old retired guy.

[Easy Rider]

If your bike is drifting in turns and you aren't pushing the bike to its limits, YOU NEED NEW TIRES!

A definite possibility but it may not be that simple.

I always thought the GZ had "oversteer". That probably is not true, technically, but it does take VERY little in the way of steering inputs to get a BIG change in direction. It is easy to handle.

Now we have a bigger bike that is NOT that easy to aim. It takes some conscious effort (not much maybe but a distinct action) to make it turn. With my Shadow, I find it is MUCH more stable as tiny changes in lean or bar pressure don't send it veering off in a different direction.

Now for the hard part, also very important: If you are drifting wide in turns, then you aren't giving it enough steering input and aren't leaning far enough (or leaning your body the wrong way). And the really REALLY hard part is to convince yourself that when that happens, the absolute WRONG thing to do is to slow down.....because that will allow you to lean even LESS and tend to make your line even straighter. You need to lean MORE and in order to do that, you need to apply a little MORE throttle or you will low-side (if you lean too much while going too slow, you fall over).

Drifting in curves is NOT what causes bad accidents; it is entering the curve too fast, at the edge of the performance limit of your tires such that you can not lean any more and thus can't turn any tighter without sliding out.

Summary: Drifting is caused by not leaning enough and/or not counter steering enough.
Accidents are caused by starting to drift and doing the wrong thing to correct it.
BAD accidents are caused by riding above the limits of your skill and equipment and getting into situations where there is no good out.

You don't have to take my word for this; it is widely documented by all the "experts" and they probably explain it better.

You just need a LOT more practice with your new bike as the handling is way different.
Others on here have noted that making the transition is often more difficult when you go back and forth between the two. While you are getting used to the bigger bike, I suggest that you not ride the GZ at all for a while.

[Sarris]

Yeah, I know what you mean.

The Harley is like........EEDOO!! EEDOO Capt. to helmsman. Right full rudder.

You have to plan your moves sooner and execute them with deliberate higher force actions.

It's strange swapping between the HD and the GZ and definately takes a few minutes to acclimate.

The worst thing to get used to is the turnsignal switch(es) ere mounted on each grip instead of all in one like the GZ.

They are however, self cancelling. Cool, huh?

:)

[primal]

Easy, do we have the same definition of drifting?

[youtube:xu0axy5u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7fn1XndE3o[/youtube:xu0axy5u]

[Easy Rider]

Easy, do we have the same definition of drifting?


No, apparently not.
In this context, it is running wide in a curve.
I think everybody ELSE understands that.
Next you will be telling us that you ride like the guy in the video.

:facepalm:

Blackbird: What did YOU mean when you said "drifting" in the curves?

[primal]

Next you will be telling us that you ride like the guy in the video.

Hah! I wish I could ride like that (on a closed course, of course).

I've never heard the term drifting refer to running wide in a turn... oh well.

[bonehead]

Yeah, I know what you mean.

The Harley is like........EEDOO!! EEDOO Capt. to helmsman. Right full rudder.

You have to plan your moves sooner and execute them with deliberate higher force actions.

It's strange swapping between the HD and the GZ and definately takes a few minutes to acclimate.

The worst thing to get used to is the turnsignal switch(es) ere mounted on each grip instead of all in one like the GZ.

They are however, self cancelling. Cool, huh?

:)

[Blackbird]

Easy, do we have the same definition of drifting?


No, apparently not.
In this context, it is running wide in a curve.
I think everybody ELSE understands that.
Next you will be telling us that you ride like the guy in the video.

:facepalm:

Blackbird: What did YOU mean when you said "drifting" in the curves?
Yes. I meant drifting in curves. New tires are coming ... along with more practice (riding time).

[burkbuilds]

A lot of things can change the dynamics of how a bike handles. Center of gravity is another variable in that equation. When I changed over to my Vulcan 500 I couldn't tell much difference in how it handled compared to my GZ; however, I hadn't considered that I had "customized" the seat on the GZ so that it was 2" higher than stock so it didn't actually handle the same as a stock GZ because that raised my center of gravity. Then when I bought the Vulcan, although it is a little heavier bike, the factory seat height was about 28" (same as a stock GZ) and I didn't really notice any difference in how it handled until I customized the seat on it and raised it up by 3" in height. Then I noticed that I had to lean harder into the curves. It took me about 150 miles of riding to feel like I was back in full "balance" and able to handle the curves again as well as before. So just adding 3" to the height I was sitting changed the dynamics of how the bike handled noticeably for me. That might also account for some of the difference you feel when you go from the GZ to a bigger bike if that bike has a higher seat height than the GZ. Now that I've gotten used to it, I actually feel like it handles the curves better than the GZ but it did change the way I lean in a turn from the way I was leaning on the GZ. The first time I went into an S-Curve after raising the seat height I was glad nobody was coming the other way because I was on top of the double yellow lines before I knew it and if somebody had been riding the line coming the other way I'd probably be history.
Your point is good that whenever we change bikes we probably need to ride a little more conservatively until we get the feel for the new bike because they do handle differently because of a variety of reasons.

[Easy Rider]

That might also account for some of the difference you feel when you go from the GZ to a bigger bike if that bike has a higher seat height than the GZ.

Good post!
I think the difference is primarily the higher center of mass that you mentioned......whether it be from a higher rider position or just generally more mass to deal with and relatively higher.

The more mass you have in motion, the more energy it takes to deflect it from straight ahead.

[Water Warrior 2]

The higher center of gravity and mass can sometimes be a bonus in the twisties. With proper lean and counter steering you can control the bike weight and mass quite easily. With that control you have a lot of fun without the fear of running wild and white knuckled into a mountain. A good/very good rider on a Vstrom(not me)can give a sport bike rider a lesson or two. Not saying the Vstroms are sport bike killers but they are quite well known for doing a lot of things well.

[burkbuilds]

I'm starting to notice that too Water Warrior. The GZ was easy to handle but I never felt comfortable with as much lean as I do with this new, slightly heavier, slightly bigger tired bike. Once I got over being nervous about leaning a little more aggressively I found that it handles curves really well. I think part of my confidence comes from knowing I've got a little more power available to straighten me back up if I lean into her a little more than I meant to. I don't know if I'm putting this into the proper terms and somebody will probably jump on what I'm saying but whatever.
Yesterday I hit some really sharp S-curves and basically went from a pretty aggressive right lean back up and over the top and straight into a pretty aggressive left lean and then straightened her up as I came out of the curve. The bike handled it with ease and I felt totally in control through the entire maneuver but I would have taken that a lot slower on the GZ and no where near the amount of lean that I put into the Vulcan. (I ride this stretch pretty often so I am very familiar with it and it's in a flat section of roadway too.) Maybe there really isn't any difference except in my head but it sure felt different to me. Maybe the slightly heavier weight of the bike makes it feel like it has better contact with the roadway, it just doesn't feel like it's gonna "come out from under you" when you lean aggressively and I never felt that way on the GZ, although I never had any problems with the GZ sliding out on me at all, so again, maybe it's just my perception in my head.

[Water Warrior 2]

You are correct. Power to come out of curves is best. You need to plant the bike with some power which allows you to lean and go for it. Or you can just cruise along and enjoy riding at a smooth pace without stretching any limits. I enjoy both depending on traffic conditions and how I feel. Not many riders will ever find the extreme limits of their bike which means my Vstrom 650 has more than enough pizzaz for me.