Why only 1 cylinder?

[Scooter]

I have to ask why does the GZ250 only use 1 cylinder? Wouldn't a twin be more effective? ( I had to ask)

[patrick_777]

Simplicity. It's also a lot cheaper to build and design around one cylinder.

[music man]

I have to ask why does the GZ250 only use 1 cylinder? Wouldn't a twin be more effective? ( I had to ask)


Not Necessarily, the Rebel and the Virago both are twin cylinders, the Virago is a V-twin, and as far as I know neither one of those bikes are gonna run off and leave the GZ in the dust in the performance department.

[Easy Rider]

I have to ask why does the GZ250 only use 1 cylinder? Wouldn't a twin be more effective? ( I had to ask)

Why NOT ??
A LOT of small engines have only one.
Simpler, easier, lighter and cheaper.

[dannylightning]

Call and ask suzuki why they did this. i dont think any of us know why a company designs something a cretin way. only the people that design it are really gonna be able to answer that question. it is a simple engine and it runs fine with only one cylinder. i don't think the Honda rebel with 2 cylinders is really any faster from what i remember when i took one for a test ride. the rebel sounded better but i wouldn't say it ran any better. i think they have a slightly higher top speed but i wouldent want to do much highway driving on one of those either. i think the single cylinder is quite adequate for a little 250cc.

[burkbuilds]

Suzuki even uses a single cylinder in the S40 which has about 650cc's if I remember correctly. I like the fact that I have less mechanical parts to maintain, wear out and so forth. It was one of the deciding factors in my purchase of the GZ over the Rebel or the Yamaha. I don't know Suzuki's reason for it, but I like it! Two cylinders would be two more sets of valves to adjust, more spark plugs to maintain, more gaskets to potentially fail and need replacing. It seems to work great and I don't think there's any significant horsepower difference in the 250cc's from the GZ vs the 250cc's in the other company's bikes that use twin cylinders. As somebody pointed out there may be a little top end speed difference but not much if any.

[primal]

Sorry, but that's like saying why they don't make a 2 cylinder engine with 4 cylinders. Everyone knows a 500cc inline-4 would be more efficient (power wise) than a 500cc twin, but that doesn't mean it's the best design for a given bike.

[Scooter]

Sorry, but that's like saying why they don't make a 2 cylinder engine with 4 cylinders. Everyone knows a 500cc inline-4 would be more efficient (power wise) than a 500cc twin, but that doesn't mean it's the best design for a given bike.


I was understanding the posts in this thread pretty much until this one. Making a 2 cylinder engine with 4 cylinders makes no sense to me. Being new to motorcycles I don't quite understand all the enngineering factors that go into building a bike. I guess you're more than one up on me there.

[Moedad]

I was understanding the posts in this thread pretty much until this one. Making a 2 cylinder engine with 4 cylinders makes no sense to me. Being new to motorcycles I don't quite understand all the enngineering factors that go into building a bike. I guess you're more than one up on me there.

He's just saying there's more than one way to skin a cat. The GZ is what it is. The single cylinder design has proven to be an efficient, economical means to an end, which is to produce a 250cc bike that will appeal to a certain, hopefully large, segment of the market. For folks wanting something more or different, there are other fine choices in a bike.

[Scooter]

I wasn't trying to be a smart a$$ in my comment, the post just went over my head. I know that this bike and others like it in the same CC range are timeless in their design. I think that having less parts makes the bike more economical to run. I think I did read that only having the one cylinder did affect top end. But if your looking for a top end bike why would you be looking at this engine size? I was just curious why the design team settled on one cylinder instead of the normal 2.

I guess I won't ask why it only comes in black.

[primal]

I don't think there's anything "normal" about a two cylinder engine design. Sure, it might be the most visible thanks to Harley, but there really are no norms when it comes to number of cylinders.

As far as my comment, all it takes is a good look at the way sport bike engines are designed. A 600cc inline-4 engine such as the one in the Suzuki GSXR600 will totally blow a 1200cc cruiser out of the water; there's simply no contest between the two where speed an acceleration is concerned. The engine design of the sport bike allows the engine to produce twice as much HP as a 1200cc cruiser. This effectively means that, on a per cc basis, the 600cc inline-4 will produce 4 times as much HP.

[Moedad]

I guess I won't ask why it only comes in black.

Black is faster? :whistle:

They change the paint year by year. Black seems to be the most popular however. I really like my blue one.

[Easy Rider]

A 600cc inline-4 engine such as the one in the Suzuki GSXR600 will totally blow a 1200cc cruiser out of the water; there's simply no contest between the two where speed an acceleration is concerned.

Sorry, just can't let this pass. While your example might be generally true, it is NOT inherently true. That is, there is nothing that makes more cylinders absolutely better. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish and the total design. Weight has a lot to do with it.

The I4 motorcycle engine was first developed for high speed RACING. Since there isn't, or shouldn't be, a lot of high speed racing taking place on public roadways, the I4 in a street bike is overkill......regardless of the size......except for an inherent lack of vibration.

So, given that, a twin cylinder design is probably the best compromise for a street bike. You use the additional torque at low rpm's by providing different gearing. You COULD make it a lot smoother too (less vibration) and if the riding public weren't so stupid there would be more smooth twins on the market.

Just like a 12 cyl. Cogsworth engine wouldn't do very well in a semi truck, a diesel wouldn't do much in a race car either. There is no real NEED for a lot of cylinders in a street bike.......and the advantages are largely un-tapped in "normal" daily riding.

For puttering around town at speeds below 60 mph, JUST ONE cylinder does quite nicely.
It even works pretty good for an occasional road trip.
Waste not, want not !!!

[Easy Rider]

I was just curious why the design team settled on one cylinder instead of the normal 2.


What makes you think that 2 is "normal"?

In the beginning there was a bicycle with NO cylinders.
Then there was ONE added.
It stayed that way for a LONG time.
Even after twins started to appear, most still had only one.
The tide started to turn sometime around 1970.

Historically, ONE has been the norm.
Only quite recently has more than one become dominant.

[Easy Rider]

I guess I won't ask why it only comes in black.

Black is faster? :whistle:


You know, I used to think that too......but lately I'm becoming somewhat partial to RED. :roll:

[primal]

Easy Rider, I can't help but think you intentionally ignored what I said so you could rant. I said where speed and acceleration is concerned, there's no contest. I made no mention of real world practicality, which is what you're talking about (and I completely agree with you).

And if you want to prove me wrong, show me a 1200cc+ cruiser that could even come close to keeping up with a 600cc sport bike. The only one I can think of is MAYBE a Vrod, but that's still a 1200cc motor struggling to keep up with a 600cc inline-4. Start comparing the Vrod to a comparable inline-4 bike like the Hayabusa and again, no competition. The simple fact is that inline-4 engines are more efficient in generating power (HP to displacement ratio) than most twin engine designs. I guess, though, that I'm partially wrong, since Ducati wins races using v-twins.

There's also the fact that there are PLENTY of twin cylinder bikes (i.e. 99% of Harleys) that are also overkill for what is really needed on the road.

I have to disagree with your opinion on all inline-4 bikes being overkill, though. My KZ550 has the perfect balance of power and economy, and is even suitable for beginner riders. I think any vintage bike up to 1000ccs shouldn't be considered overkill (unless its a KZ1000 that'll outrun a Hayabusa!).

[Water Warrior 2]

The GZ is as mentioned, very economical and easy to maintain. Think of third world countries where bikes are very common and 250 CCs are all you really need. Whole families travel on bikes like a GZ and they do the job reliably with little or no upkeep and no motorcycle shop nearby. Secondly, multi cylinder bikes all have a purpose whether it is 2, 3, 4 or 6 cylinders. A V-twin can be made to be very smooth and vibration free. My Vstrom with a 90 degree V is exceptionally smooth and has more than enough power to break any speed limit. At one time I had a 3 cylinder 2 stroke Suzuki that was very smooth and powerful. Would love to have one again as it was a really neat sounding bike.

[Easy Rider]

Easy Rider, I can't help but think you intentionally ignored what I said so you could rant.

It wasn't a "rant" and I don't need to prove anything.

Good night, Irene!

[primal]

It wasn't a "rant" and I don't need to prove anything.

Good night, Irene!

Perhaps, but I still don't think you actually read what I typed.

[patrick_777]

Just to be contrary here, the 2007 SV1000 (a V-Twin Literbike) generates more HP and runs a faster ET than the 07 GXR600 or CBR600RR. Only the ZX6R pulls past it in the quarter by less than a few tenths.

Not all V-twins are Cruisers, and not all Cruisers are V-Twins.

[primal]

We can't discount the skill of the rider. The numbers I've seen for the SV1000 quarter mile was just under 11s. A GSXR1000 is a whole second faster. :tongue:

Yea, I know you said GSXR600, but in the case when the v-twin is faster, I think its more fair to compare it to a bike that it doesn't have 400cc on. ;)

[patrick_777]

That wasn't your original comparison. Quit changing your own rules.

[primal]

That wasn't your original comparison. Quit changing your own rules.

No, but it still shows that cc for cc, the inline-4s are more powerful. :neener:

[Water Warrior 2]

Shesh......... :popcorn:

[David Bo]

Ya gotta love the PISSING CONTESTS that always end up happening on this forum! :) I am just happy not to be a part of this one :2tup: . (Rotella oil is the best - Fram filters suck - Not wise to screw with your carb settings - etc...) I love it!

[primal]

Hey now, it's all good fun. We all like each other here! =D

[adrianinflorida]

Yeah what David Bo said....... and Easy, its Cosworth, and they're known for their 8 cylinder engines. ;)

[Water Warrior 2]

No, not all good fun. We come here to be punished. Get with the program. :whistle:

[Water Warrior 2]

Yeah what David Bo said....... and Easy, its Cosworth, and they're known for their 8 cylinder engines. ;)

They also did up some note worthy 4 cylinder engines for the British market.

[patrick_777]

Ya gotta love the PISSING CONTESTS that always end up happening on this forum! :) I am just happy not to be a part of this one :2tup: . (Rotella oil is the best - Fram filters suck - Not wise to screw with your carb settings - etc...) I love it!


You haven't been around here very long, or you haven't paid attention. This is mild compared to most msg boards (ask Easy "Born to be Mild" Rider). :twisted:

[Dupo]

LOL ... yea Easy took a beating over there didnt he?

[Moedad]

My KZ550 has the perfect balance of power and economy, and is even suitable for beginner riders.

No, my CB750 is all that. :poke2:

[Water Warrior 2]

My KZ550 has the perfect balance of power and economy, and is even suitable for beginner riders.

No, my CB750 is all that. :poke2:

Gotta disagree with that opinion. The CB 750 weighs in a tad over 500 lbs with no fuel. Could be a real handful for a newbie. Just another opinion of course.

[Easy Rider]

Yeah what David Bo said....... and Easy, its Cosworth, and they're known for their 8 cylinder engines. ;)

Yea, I figured that somebody would catch that. Was it the Nuvi or Novi or Nova engines that are (were) 12's ?? :)
At least you knew what I was talking about.

[Easy Rider]

LOL ... yea Easy took a beating over there didnt he?

Still standing though.......and did you notice who got in the last punch ??? :tongue:

[adrianinflorida]

Yeah what David Bo said....... and Easy, its Cosworth, and they're known for their 8 cylinder engines. ;)

Yea, I figured that somebody would catch that. Was it the Nuvi or Novi or Nova engines that are (were) 12's ?? :)
At least you knew what I was talking about.I just went looking, and thought that they had done at least some V-12's for the more recent F1 engines, but they've only done 4's, V6s, V8's and V10's. The '76 Cosworth Chevy Vega had an aluminum DOHC 4 Cyl.

Novi engines at Indy were supercharged V8's

[Moedad]

My KZ550 has the perfect balance of power and economy, and is even suitable for beginner riders.

No, my CB750 is all that. :poke2:

Gotta disagree with that opinion. The CB 750 weighs in a tad over 500 lbs with no fuel. Could be a real handful for a newbie. Just another opinion of course.

Yeah, that's why the poke smiley. Primal probably gets better mileage too. And a shaft drive would be cool. But I had to chime in for the Nighthawk. :whistle:

[patrick_777]

LOL ... yea Easy took a beating over there didnt he?

Still standing though.......and did you notice who got in the last punch ??? :tongue:

Yeah, you seem like a productive member of the board.

[Easy Rider]

Novi engines at Indy were supercharged V8's

Well that pretty much shows how much I follow Indy car racing........except for Danica, that is!
:shocked: :tongue: [drool]

[Easy Rider]

Yeah, you seem like a productive member of the board.

Now THAT is pretty funny.
I haven't seen much of anything "productive" going on there. :roll:

[Water Warrior 2]

Moedad, the NightHawks were and still are a great looking bike. I may be mistaken but I seem to remember they had hydraulic valve lifters that were nearly 100% trouble free. As for a beginner bike, well, maybe a more mature full size adult would be okay. As for a really big beginner bike we a older fellow in riding class with us 2 years ago. Big man with a fair bit of strength so they gave him a honda 450 twin and he settled in very nicely. His own beginner bike that was delivered was a really big Victory.

[Moedad]

Moedad, the NightHawks were and still are a great looking bike. I may be mistaken but I seem to remember they had hydraulic valve lifters that were nearly 100% trouble free. As for a beginner bike, well, maybe a more mature full size adult would be okay. As for a really big beginner bike we a older fellow in riding class with us 2 years ago. Big man with a fair bit of strength so they gave him a honda 450 twin and he settled in very nicely. His own beginner bike that was delivered was a really big Victory.

I'd still like to have a flat black Wee-Strom someday.

[Water Warrior 2]

Moedad, the NightHawks were and still are a great looking bike. I may be mistaken but I seem to remember they had hydraulic valve lifters that were nearly 100% trouble free. As for a beginner bike, well, maybe a more mature full size adult would be okay. As for a really big beginner bike we a older fellow in riding class with us 2 years ago. Big man with a fair bit of strength so they gave him a honda 450 twin and he settled in very nicely. His own beginner bike that was delivered was a really big Victory.

I'd still like to have a flat black Wee-Strom someday.

They are a sweet ride. Smooth and lots room for toys to be attached. The aftermarket has a great supply of "Strom Only" items to really personalize for comfort and utility. Almost 4 years now and I am still messing with add-ons and what-ifs. Great hobby and keeps me out of trouble. I won't mention all the $ spent of frilly stuff.