Oil Change - the Good part and the Bad part

[RichInFla]

The GOOD: Not being mechanically inclined (it ain't a computer !!), I was feeling pretty good about the fact that I was actually able to change the oil, filter, and spark plug (proper gap and everything) this weekend. Ended up using only 4 paper towels and only got a couple of small oil drops on the driveway. Actually had my HD riding neighbor over for moral (and technical) support. As soon as I finished and fired her up, I saw him look across the street and he give me the thumbs up :2tup:

The BAD: I don't know how this happened (actually, yes I do, I have a 4-year old and I'm in Walmart, can anyone relate ?), but I could have sworn I picked up Castrol Syntec 10W-40 full synthentic. I went to put the bottles in the recycle bin, and for some reason (don't know why), I looked at the grade. SHI :curse: if it wasn't 10W-30 !!

I read the previous posts about avoiding 10-30W, and I knew I wanted 10W-40, so much for my great accomplishment :cry:

So, do I have to change it again or can I ride with it for a while (I think I know the answer, but who knows, I'm a newbie) ???

[music man]

I personally would drain it back out and put 10-40 in it, but it won't be too bad, you already changed the filter and it doesn't take too much oil to do it. You are talking about a machine that depends on just a little over a quart of oil (and nothing else) to keep it alive, the way I look at it, that qaurt of stuff needs to be good and it needs to be right.

[Easy Rider]

I went to put the bottles in the recycle bin, and for some reason (don't know why), I looked at the grade. SHI :curse: if it wasn't 10W-30 !!


First, I don't think anybody ever said to avoid 10W30.

Get one of those empty bottles and look it over closely.

If it does NOT say "energy conserving" anywhere on the label, then there is no reason to panic.
I'd leave it in there until the high temps. get above 90 consistently and then change it to something with a 40 or 50 on the end. Mobil 1 has a good synthetic bike oil that is labeled for V-twins (air cooled). Get that and there won't be any question. Should be available at Auto Zone but anyplace that sells Mobil 1 should be able to get it.

[RichInFla]

If it does NOT say "energy conserving" anywhere on the label, then there is no reason to panic.

Took another look. Sure enough, it says "Energy Conserving" on the back. Well, I guess it was a good practice session. Got an Auto Zone around the corner, so I guess that I'll be heading that way and doin' it again !! Can I still use the same filter or do I have to take that out and get all the other oil out ?

And...why is "motorcycle" oil $3 more than regular motor oil ? I looked for the Rotella brand as well, but it didn't say "motorcycle oil". Does it matter ? Can't I use regular motor oil ??

Thanks again...

[music man]

And...why is "motorcycle" oil $3 more than regular motor oil ? I looked for the Rotella brand as well, but it didn't say "motorcycle oil". Does it matter ? Can't I use regular motor oil ??

Thanks again...


Rotella is actually primarily used for Deisel engines, mainly 18 wheelers, but it is safe to use regular motor oil in your motorcycle as long as it doesn't say ENERGY CONSERVING on it. And as for why motorcycle oil is more than regular oil, because they can I guess. And actually if you did not have a motorcycle that had a wet clutch (the transmission uses the motor oil for lubrication) you could use any kind of motor oil you wanted, energy conserving or not.

[David Bo]

You can use any kind of motor oil as long as it is 10W-40. I personally do not buy special "motorcycle oil" but I do use FULL SYNTHETIC. If it were my bike I would drain that 10W-30 stuff out and save it for the lawn mower... Then I would grap a couple for quarts of either Castrol or Royal Purple 10W-40 and perform a "re-do".

[RichInFla]

Thanks all. Looks like it's off to Auto Zone for 10W-40 full synthetic. Have to admit though, for the brief time it was in there, sure shifted a whole lot smoother with full synthetic. :biggrin:

[David Bo]

I found this litte gem on the internet... I was written about oils for Honda Shadows but everything should apply to Gee Zee's.

Suitable Non Motorcycle Specific Oils

I receive questions about using a non motorcycle specific oil in their Honda Shadow. The idea is if Honda only recommends an oil that meets the API certification of SF or SG then it should work. This is a very good point but there are some things that must be considered. The fact that automotive oils, although they meet the correct API code, have some things that make them more automotive than motorcycle specific. The difference is that many of the automotive oils are an 'Energy Conserving' type of oil and most people feel that the additive packages used in those oils are not good for engines that share the transmissions and the clutches. These engines have what is called a 'Wet Clutch' system and the energy conserving oils may have an adverse affect on the clutches.

So I decided to put together a list of non motorcycle specific oils that are not the energy conserving type and should work well with the wet clutch systems that are used in the Honda Shadow's.

Another point I'd like to bring up about the automotive oils is that these oils use lower cost viscosity improvers (VI polymers) as compared to the VII polymers used in the motorcycle specific oils or the heavy duty truck oils. This means the automotive oils are not as shear stable as the oils that use the VII polymers. You'll noticed at the beginning of the list of oils, I refer to the oils as a 'Low mileage' ' Middle mileage' and 'High mileage' oils. There are other differences between the automotive oils and the truck oils or the motorcycle specific oils but that's a little deeper research than I felt this page needed to go. You may find other oils that would work in your motorcycle just be sure you look at the API service seal. If the bottom half of the seal reads 'Energy Conserving' I recommend you pass it up.


I feel that automotive oils can be used in our motorcycles but it would be good to adjust the oil change intervals when using them. Here is a general rule that I use;


Crude base automotive oils = 2000 to 2500 miles max.

Heavy duty truck oils or motorcycle specific oils = 3500 to 4000 miles max

Full synthetic oils = 4500 to 5000 miles



For this list I used Advance Auto Parts and Wal-Mart. The list is not a complete list but it shows a lot of oils that should work fine in our Shadys

I'm starting the list with the crude based Automotive oils. These oils are not in any order of preferences. The list is grouped into three different groups.

Crude based auto oil. (Low Mileage)
Heavy duty crude based Truck oils. (Middle mileage)
And full synthetic or synthetic blended oil. (High mileage oil)

All oils listed are 'Non Energy Conserving' oils that should work well with wet clutches.

Wal-Mart-Low mileage automotive oils.
Mobile Clean 5000 10W-40 $1.68 a quart.
Pennzoil 10W-40.................$1.77 a quart.
Pennzoil 20W-50.................$1.77 a quart.
Castrol GTX 10W-40............$1.97 a quart.
Valvoline 10W-40................$1.88 a quart.
Quaker State 10W-40..........$1.74 a quart.
Havoline 10W-40.................$1.42 a quart.
Super Tech 10W-40.............$.97 (cents) a quart.
Super Tech 20W-50.............$.97 (cents) a quart.

Wal-Mart-Heavy Duty Truck oils (Crude based)
Shell Rotella-T 15W-40........$1.92 a quart $6.50 a gallon.
Mobile Delvac 15W-40.........$6.32 a gallon.
Super Tech 15W-40............$1.26 a quart.

Wal-Mart-High mileage synthetic or synthetic blended oils.
Mobil 1 5W-40 Truck & SUV.......................$4.88 a quart. (Syn)
Castrol Syntec 20W-50..............................$4.72 a quart. (Syn)
Shell Rotella-T 5W-40 Truck Oil!..............$13.48 a gallon. (Syn)

Now For Advance. They had a better selection than Wal-Mart.


Advance Auto Parts (Crude based auto oils)!
Havoline 10W-40..................$1.58 a quart.
Havoline 20W-50..................$1.58 a quart.
Advance Brand 10W-40........$1.18 a quart.
Advance Brand 20W-50........$1.18 a quart.
Formula Shell 10W-40..........$1.48 a quart.
Motorcraft 10W-40...............$1.78 a quart.
Mobil Clean 5000 10W-40.....$1.98 a quart.
Pennzoil 10W-40..................$2.18 a quart.
Valvoline VR1 racing 20W-50.$2.68 a quart.
Valvoline 10W-40.................$2.18 a quart.
Valvoline 20W-50.................$2.18 a quart.
Castrol GTX 10W-40.............$2.18 a quart.
Castrol GTX 20W-50.............$2.18 a quart.

Advance Auto Parts Heavy Duty Truck oils (Crude based).
Shell Rotella-T 15W-40........................$7.77 a gallon.
Valvoline Premium Blue 15W-40...........$7.97 a gallon.
Mobil Delvac 15W-40...........................$7.77 a gallon.
Castro RX 15W-40..............................$2.12 a quart.
Castrol Tection Extra 15W-40...............$7.97 a gallon.

Advance Auto parts synthetic or synthetic blended oils(High Mileage oils)
Valvoline Dura Blend 10W-40...............$3.18 a quart. (Blended)
Valvoline Dura Blend 20W-50...............$3.18 a quart. (Blended)
Castrol Syntec Blend 20W-50...............$3.18 a quart. (Blended)
Castrol Syntec 10W-40........................$5.18 a quart. (Syn)
Castrol Syntec 5W-50..........................$5.18 a quart. (Syn)
Valvoline Syn Power 20W-50................$4.68 a quart. (Syn)


I on purpose left the below oils out of the list and the reason for each.

Wal-Mart
Mobil 1 15W-50 Extended Performance.......$5.36 a quart. (Syn)?

Advance Auto Parts.
Mobil 1 15W-50 Extended Performance......$5.98 a quart. (Syn)?


At first I left the above two oils out of the main list because of the uncertainty of its Moly contents and how this new oil would work with wet clutches. Since that time, I've been seeing reports of people using it with no problems.



I found two Mobile Clean 7500 oils at both locations but these oils are 'energy conserving' so I didn't put them on the list.

I found a Quaker State 4X4 & SUV oil that was a 10W-40 but it was a 'energy conserving' oil. This is the only one with a viscosity above 10W-30 that was energy conserving. So watch the API service seals on the oil bottles because some of them are 'Energy Conserving'.

MarkC

[Easy Rider]

You can use any kind of motor oil as long as it is 10W-40.

That's a pretty broad statement and MAY not be true.
[Edit] As some parts of your subsequent post would seem to indicate.

Does anybody make an energy conserving 10W40; I don't know but they might.
Does Slick 40 market a 10W40 oil with PTFE (Teflon) in it? Maybe so.
Maybe some other exotic brand makes a super slippery 10W40 that is not good for bikes.
I certainly wouldn't use the $.85 a quart stuff found at many convenience stores.

It IS true, however, that any major brand 10W40 that is not marked "energy conserving" should be OK.......key word: should.

Rich should get the super-slick stuff out ASAP. I think the filter should be changed too to get as much out as possible.

[burkbuilds]

I'm voting with Easy Rider on that. Change the oil and the filter, it's not worth the risk for that little bit of money!

[Water Warrior 2]

A lot of folks will think about the wet clutch and forget about the shearing effect of the gears on the oil itself. This is where a designated moto oil will be of benefit to a rider. Rotella has a good shear characteristic and works well in a bike tranny. Amsoil 10-40- or 20-50 moto oil has a shear factor of a 90 weight gear oil and our bikes love it. But we will be switching to Rotella Synthetic now that I have a source in town. 4 liters of Rotella Syn is $34 + tax, 4 liters of Amsoil is now $80 + tax. Canadian $$$ working for the benefit of oil companies.
Shell has never bothered to get the Rotella certified for bike use but it meets all criteria needed.

[patrick_777]

Rich should get the super-slick stuff out ASAP. I think the filter should be changed too to get as much out as possible.

:plus1: x 100

[David Bo]

Do you guys think that Rotella would be "better" or "equal to" Royal Purple 10W-40? I am curious because I just paid about 16 bucks for two quarts of the purple stuff... :shocked:

[primal]

I've not heard good things about Royal Purple, to be honest. Of course, like everything, opinions are like a-holes... everyone's got one, and they all stink.

Honestly, as well as Shell Rotella-T works, I see absolutely no reason to pay extra for Royal Purple or any number of M/C oils. I'm even very satisfied with my Rotella-T conventional oil.

[music man]

I used to exclusively use Royal Purple in everything i owned, I also used to use Lucas oil in my bike, and neither one of those compares to the way the Rotella holds up IMHO.

[burkbuilds]

After reading that engineers report somebody posted on here about motorcycle oil, I think the Synthetic Shell rotella is all I'm gonna ever use again, in both my cars/trucks and motorcycles. I was already using it in the trucks and cars for the last 5 years or so, very happy with it. The only oil I ever used in my diesels that didn't look black after the first couple hours running. It still had a gold color even after several thousand miles in my diesel trucks, I've never seen that with anything else!

[adrianinflorida]

Rich, they have Castrol Acti-Evo semi synth at Cycle Gear on US192 for (10w40 or 20w50) $3.99/qt. I've used it for two changes now, and it's held up nicely.

[RichInFla]

Rich, they have Castrol Acti-Evo semi synth at Cycle Gear on US192 for (10w40 or 20w50) $3.99/qt. I've used it for two changes now, and it's held up nicely.

I knew somebody was going to suggest changing the filter as well, I actually thought about that too !! dang...

Is it better to go with FULL synthetic rather than SEMI syn ? Also, it gets hot here in FLA, probably into the upper 90's during the summer. Would it be better to go with 20W-50 or stick with 10W-40 ?

[Easy Rider]

Is it better to go with FULL synthetic rather than SEMI syn ? Also, it gets hot here in FLA, probably into the upper 90's during the summer. Would it be better to go with 20W-50 or stick with 10W-40 ?

Probably....maybe.....virtually nobody knows for SURE.

A couple of years back, I say a study that found that "semi" synthetic products were only a tiny bit better than good Dino oil and were not worth the extra price. Wish I could remember where I saw that. Might be in the "Oil bible" that has a link on here somewhere.

So, what to do? If you can afford it, go to Auto Zone and get Mobil 1, Vtwin 20W50 full synthetic.....about $8 a quart the last time I looked. If you use that and don't abuse your bike, it will probably outlive you.

If cost IS a factor, then get a name brand 10W40, be sure it isn't marked "energy conserving" and don't worry about it. If changed on schedule and you don't abuse your bike, it will probably STILL last longer than YOU do.

All modern oils are GOOD. Minor differences in viscosity just isn't that important. The added protection of synthetic is not needed in most circumstances. Use what you can afford and feel GOOD about it. Spend your time riding and not worrying about OIL. :rawk:

[Water Warrior 2]

Rish, if Florida does get that hot for a long time I would suggest a 20-50 oil as well. Synthetics will also withstand the temps better, especially with an air cooled bike that is at the mercy of the elements.

[adrianinflorida]

Rich, they have Castrol Acti-Evo semi synth at Cycle Gear on US192 for (10w40 or 20w50) $3.99/qt. I've used it for two changes now, and it's held up nicely.

I knew somebody was going to suggest changing the filter as well, I actually thought about that too !! dang...

Is it better to go with FULL synthetic rather than SEMI syn ? Also, it gets hot here in FLA, probably into the upper 90's during the summer. Would it be better to go with 20W-50 or stick with 10W-40 ?
I use 20W50, mainly because the previous owner was. That and, as you mentioned, the heat down here. Mine's pretty much a daily driver, only about 20 miles or so a day, from Beachside over to FIT and back, plus running out for lunch, all in what passes for traffic in Melbourne.

As for Semi vs Full Syn? I dunno, full synthetic is probably better, especially if you go past the recommended intervals for oil changes, I do mine at 1500 miles, and, as the manual calls for, change the filter every other oil change.

The Castrol Actevo really looked better at 1500 miles than the Castrol (Not sure which blend) the previous owner used when I changed it right after buying the bike. It was still pretty golden colored, the stuff she used (about 2000 miles, according to her) was pretty dark. Really, though the semi syn gives me a nicer shifting feel, and seems robust enough to handle the wear and tear.

[burkbuilds]

Here's the web address for that article on oil from Calsci.com if you want to read it: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html very informative from a guy with no money stakes in the oil industry as far as I can tell. He's certainly not going to make a ton of money just by getting bikers to change their oil choices even if he only recommended one oil, which he doesn't and we all changed to it, which we won't, so I thought it was pretty unbiased in that aspect.

By the way, a few years ago I did some work for a company that tested motor oils and lubricants, mostly for cars not bikes, and it was very interesting to see how much better most of the name brands did than stuff that you got off the shelf at the 7-11 in a generic container. It was also interesting to see how much better all the synthetics I saw tested outperformed every conventional oil and not all synthetics tested the same, although all of the synthetics that I saw still outperformed conventional in things like film strength and thermal breakdown. I also observed that additives added to almost any motor oil changed the performance characteristics for that oil (not always for the better) and outside of the difference in base oils (syn vs conventional) that made the most difference in performance. Some of the no name brands were really poor in film strength and thermal breakdown and I mean REALLY poor, so please don't put those in anything you care about lasting. Now having said that, this was over 15 years ago and motor oils have changed immensely in that period of time but the main thing I took away from the experience was that not all motor oils perform the same and the synthetics always outperformed conventional under stress and duress.

[primal]

For anyone interested, I went and bought a gallon of Rotella-T synthetic today for my Kat. Last time I went to Walmart, a gallon of the stuff was $23 (IIRC). Today it was $19. I was happy. :)