idle speed thread.

[dannylightning]

after a discussion about idle speed in one of my post a few weeks ago that was originally started about something else but idle speed got brought up i leaned one important thing. if you have your one cylinder bike set to idle low idle it will put a lot of extra strain on the motor witch is no good at all. that is some important info for any one who does not know that.. i did not!! the manual calls for right around 1200 rpm idle sped but with no tachometer its a bit hard to judge

i do have one more question about the idle speed on this bike, if the idle speed is set higher will it increase performance and how soon your bike runs out of torque between each gear. here is a video of how my idle speed is set now, at this speed it seems to preform much, much better

[youtube:1d6rylul]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gmcHctVFiY[/youtube:1d6rylul].

this sounds a little fast to me but i notice much better acceleration with the idle around this speed so i think it will keep it right where it is, when i had the idle set at a lower speed (not all that much lower) it would seem to run out of juice/torque in each gear a lot sooner and when it seemed to want to run out of juice/torque (not want to go any faster in that gear) if i gave it a little more throttle it would hit he power band for a split second and than i would halve to shift. (that was driving at normal speed). now at normal speed it seems to have more acceleration and torque, i do not halve to shift as soon. first gear would run out of torque right around 10 miles per hour. second would run out right around 20 miles per hours. basically every 10 miles per hour i would have to shift but not any more

when trying to speed up as fast as possible i noticed now my shift points are much further apart. it seemed to gain a additional 7-10 mph in each gear before i would halve to shift for example i pushed 2nd gear up to just over 30 mph compared to the lower idle speed i would halve to shift into 3rd right at 20 miles per hour. i pushed 3rd gear to over 40mph when before i had to shift out of 3rd right about 30 mph..


i never thought idle speed would make much difference in performance but it did on my bike. i am wondering if i am just crazy or if any one else had had a similar experience. i was kind of disappointed with the bike cus i thought it was a bit slow (besides that i love the bike), now it feels quite fast after only adjusting the idle.

[JWR]

Best shift points
1st....20
2nd...30
4th....40
5th....50


MAX SPEED
1st....25
2nd...45
3rd....60
4th....70+
5th....??????

YMMV

Jerry

[Water Warrior 2]

Sounds like a decent idle speed. The idle speed has no real bearing on the shift points. Increasing the idle is the same as opening the throttle a bit and leaving it there. Maybe you are just learning to wind it up a bit more before shifting and reaping the rewards.

[alantf]

Sounds fine to me too. Mine is, if anything, slightly faster. I find that the "slightly faster" stops that annoying jerk when I shut the throttle quickly.

Note :- Comments regarding "annoying jerks" should be posted under "humour" (LOL)

[dannylightning]

Sounds like a decent idle speed. The idle speed has no real bearing on the shift points. Increasing the idle is the same as opening the throttle a bit and leaving it there. Maybe you are just learning to wind it up a bit more before shifting and reaping the rewards.


I have known how to shift for a long time.. let me word this a bit different. i could feel it running out of torque every 10 miles per hour, what i ment by that is the bike would stop accelerating but he rpm's kept going up than if i gave it a little more throttle it would start accelerating again. right after i adjusted the idle it accelerates all the way through to the higher rpms with out running out of torque..

i did replace my old air filter witch looked pretty bad. half of it was covered in fluid and it smelled like gas it was nice and dirty too. i ordered a new one and put it in the other day.. been raining so i hadent really rode the bike. i had to readjust my idle after i stuck the new filter in there but i did not bother with that till today, so i was thinking i just adjusted my idle and its hauling ass not really thinking about the air filter i just changed out a few days ago witch could have caused this improvement. but......

i know nothing about a carborater or how they work besides it opens the flap and dumps gas in the hole. common sence tells me that it shouldn't have had any thing to do with it running better. but since i know nothing about them and i adjusted it and it did run better so i had to find out for sure, and now when i think about the worn out air filter being replaced and the bike preforming much makes way more sense.

it is important NOT to have a low idle on a single cylinder or you can damage your engine since it puts extra strain on it. that is why i titled this engine idle thread. the best and max shift points were stated witch is good to know also. so even if the part about the bike preforming better on a higher idle speed is not correct at least there is some good info in the thread..

[GZ250]

the idle speed seems just the same as i have and i thick if you use tachometer you will find that it is still lower than recommended because when i first bought the bike the guy who handed over the bike to me and did a trial run adjusted the idle way up and told me to keep it to that position and bike made a lot of noise, i brought it backk to lower after sometime. Now again when i went for valve adjustment (the other dealership) they increased the idle speed. i dont understand why they do that - as you said better for GZs engine health or better for increased performance. but if idle is very low you will definitely have issues with accleration and pick up from a stop. so ideal idle is a critical point and may be different for each bike.

[GZ250]

Best shift points
1st....20
2nd...30
4th....40
5th....50


MAX SPEED
1st....25
2nd...45
3rd....60
4th....70+
5th....??????

YMMV

Jerry


if you shift 4th at 70mph aren't you going to put TOO much load on GZs engine that could blow up or make a leak in the head gaskit or some other gaskit. maximum i go in the 4th is 50 and shift to 5th. and hardly touch 70mph. maximum for me is 65mph. i better change the bike if i need speed. actually i follow the best shifts points you mentioned. also depends how heavy is the load sitting on the bike, i am already heavy and big for the GZ.

[JWR]

if you shift 4th at 70mph aren't you going to put TOO much load on GZs engine that could blow up or make a leak in the head gaskit or some other gaskit.


If and when it blows up I'll let you know.
When climbing a hill I will downshift to 4th and run WOT to keep my speed up.

[Water Warrior 2]

Sounds like a decent idle speed. The idle speed has no real bearing on the shift points. Increasing the idle is the same as opening the throttle a bit and leaving it there. Maybe you are just learning to wind it up a bit more before shifting and reaping the rewards.


i had to readjust my idle after i stuck the new filter in there but i did not bother with that till today, so i was thinking i just adjusted my idle and its hauling ass not really thinking about the air filter i just changed out a few days ago witch could have caused this improvement.

A new air filter could make all the difference in the performance increase.

[dannylightning]

if you shift 4th at 70mph aren't you going to put TOO much load on GZs engine that could blow up or make a leak in the head gaskit or some other gaskit.


If and when it blows up I'll let you know.
When climbing a hill I will downshift to 4th and run WOT to keep my speed up.

well i had my gz going 50 in 3rd gear..

[Easy Rider]

i do have one more question about the idle speed on this bike, if the idle speed is set higher will it increase performance and how soon your bike runs out of torque between each gear.

i never thought idle speed would make much difference in performance but it did on my bike. i am wondering if i am just crazy

Maybe "crazy" isn't the right word........ :roll:
You are under an illusion though.

Your idle speed is fine and if anything is still a tad bit low; leave it there.

Proper manipulation of the throttle will do the same thing as upping the idle speed.
The higher the idle speed, the LESS the RPMs will fall when you shift, thereby giving you a little head start on acceleration. Once the clutch is fully engaged and you apply the throttle, that tiny advantage rapidly disappears and it gains you absolutely nothing at the top end.
It's the "placebo effect". :)

[EDIT]
And after reading the rest of the posts.........if you have occasions when the engine REALLY accelerates and your speed DOESN'T then your clutch is slipping......which is a WHOLE different matter. Have you checked the slack in your clutch cable recently ??

[dannylightning]

yeah i have my clutch cable adjusted to the correct specs i can move the lever about 15mm as far as play. the bike only has about 3k miles on it so i don't think the clutch is slipping. it grabs great when upshifting and i mainly use the clutch and down shift and slow down and it seems to work great.

the rpm's might not really go up more they might stay about the same but feels feels like it runs out of torque. it seems to do that right about where the owners manual says you should up shift. 12, 19, 25, 37 mph.. it only seemed to do that when i was putting around.

does that sound normal or not

it does not feel like the engine is trying to accelerate it just feel like the engine runs out of power in that gear and wants me to shift. and only when i am accelerating kind of slow. when i accelerate somewhat fast or fast it never did that..

[primal]

What kind of oil are you running?

You really shouldn't be complaining about running out of torque, since the GZ doesn't have much anyway. ;)

[dannylightning]

What kind of oil are you running?

You really shouldn't be complaining about running out of torque, since the GZ doesn't have much anyway. ;)

full synthetic 4T racing oil from mobile1

[primal]

full synthetic 4T racing oil from mobile1

Hmm... well, that rules out a slipping clutch due to the wrong type of oil.

[dannylightning]

full synthetic 4T racing oil from mobile1

Hmm... well, that rules out a slipping clutch due to the wrong type of oil.

i just read about 10 different pages on how to test a clutch for slipping. after reviewing all of the information on how to test your clutch for slipping (they said to do the same couple of things on all the sites) all of witch i have done a time or two since i have had the bike, i remember how the bike reacted to the situations

i don't think the clutch is slipping.

[Easy Rider]

it does not feel like the engine is trying to accelerate it just feel like the engine runs out of power in that gear and wants me to shift. and only when i am accelerating kind of slow. when i accelerate somewhat fast or fast it never did that..

:??: :??: :??:

I think you are imagining things !! :roll:

Seriously, the engine has a different feel when it is under power than when it isn't.
Get used to it.

[dannylightning]

it does not feel like the engine is trying to accelerate it just feel like the engine runs out of power in that gear and wants me to shift. and only when i am accelerating kind of slow. when i accelerate somewhat fast or fast it never did that..

the engine has a different feel when it is under power than when it isn't.

i realize that but some one said after reading all my post that my clutch (IS) slipping. i beg to differ.

i still think the bike preforms a bit better with a higher idle adjustment and that was the point of the thread here. the throttle is definitely more responsive when you first start going or change gears.

[Easy Rider]

i still think the bike preforms a bit better with a higher idle adjustment and that was the point of the thread here. the throttle is definitely more responsive when you first start going or change gears.

Yes, had that been ALL you said, there never would have been any disagreement for that is definitely true.........but you then went off into never-never land and started talking about better performance at mid throttle and above........and that's just foolish. :roll: :)

[dannylightning]

the clutch is slipping. it has started to get a little worse over the last few days. the engine used to make a louder noise when i let the clutch out when the bike was in neutral. it has stopped doing that today.

are all the plates the same size.. i have looked up replacement and watched a few video's on youtube on how to do this, nothing to it. where is a good place to get a new clutch set with the springs and all. or should i just go order one from the dealer.

[Easy Rider]

the clutch is slipping. it has started to get a little worse over the last few days.

the engine used to make a louder noise when i let the clutch out when the bike was in neutral. it has stopped doing that today.



I suggest that you get a professional mechanic to diagnose the problem first.

Just a few days ago you assured us that it was NOT slipping and seemed rather indignant that it was even suggested.

The two statements above likely are NOT related, as the plates themselves make NO noise. The noise comes from the bearings and changing those is not quite so easy a task.

I believe you are about to get in over your head.

You do have slack in the clutch cable, right? I think you said YES to that once before.

[dannylightning]

the clutch is slipping. it has started to get a little worse over the last few days.

the engine used to make a louder noise when i let the clutch out when the bike was in neutral. it has stopped doing that today.



I suggest that you get a professional mechanic to diagnose the problem first.

Just a few days ago you assured us that it was NOT slipping and seemed rather indignant that it was even suggested.

The two statements above likely are NOT related, as the plates themselves make NO noise. The noise comes from the bearings and changing those is not quite so easy a task.

I believe you are about to get in over your head.

You do have slack in the clutch cable, right? I think you said YES to that once before.

well i didn't think it was slip at first, it did not really feel like one and now it does. , plus according to the sites on how to test your clutch, it was fine. however i dont think any of those test were for when it was slipping at the higher rpm's they were pretty much to test from off the line. it up shifts great and downshifts great it is only the higher rpm's where it starts to slip and has got worse.

today when it started to feel like it lost torque and i give it gas it reved up for a good second or two and than takes off again. when before it would take off as soon as i gave it some more gas.

yes i have between 10 and 15mm of slack in the cable.. think it was on the higher side. if all i need to change out is the plates no biggie. if i need to do any thing else, i will be in over my head..

[Easy Rider]

..... plus according to the sites on how to test your clutch, it was fine. however i dont think any of those test were for when it was slipping at the higher rpm's they were pretty much to test from off the line. it up shifts great and downshifts great it is only the higher rpm's where it starts to slip and has got worse.


What those sites are trying to tell you, my fine young friend, IS that clutches usually do NOT slip ONLY at high speeds; high loads maybe but not necessarily high speed. I'm trying to tell you that too.

I think you might just be experiencing the "normal" flat spot in the power band of the GZ engine.

You definitely should NOT tear your clutch apart until you are sure that is the problem. And I don't think that you alone will be able to make that determination accurately; not at this stage in your riding career anyway.

Some people just aren't "tuned to the right frequency" to be able to tell a slipping clutch from a dirty carb. Correction, make that a LOT of people. :)

[adrianinflorida]

Get someone who has ridden motorcycles for a while to ride your bike. He/she may not know all the little nuances of your GZ, but they will probably be able to tell if it's truly slipping.

[Water Warrior 2]

Get someone who has ridden motorcycles for a while to ride your bike. He/she may not know all the little nuances of your GZ, but they will probably be able to tell if it's truly slipping.

Excellant idea :2tup: :2tup:

[dannylightning]

..... plus according to the sites on how to test your clutch, it was fine. however i dont think any of those test were for when it was slipping at the higher rpm's they were pretty much to test from off the line. it up shifts great and downshifts great it is only the higher rpm's where it starts to slip and has got worse.


What those sites are trying to tell you, my fine young friend, IS that clutches usually do NOT slip ONLY at high speeds; high loads maybe but not necessarily high speed. I'm trying to tell you that too.

I think you might just be experiencing the "normal" flat spot in the power band of the GZ engine.

You definitely should NOT tear your clutch apart until you are sure that is the problem. And I don't think that you alone will be able to make that determination accurately; not at this stage in your riding career anyway.

Some people just aren't "tuned to the right frequency" to be able to tell a slipping clutch from a dirty carb. Correction, make that a LOT of people. :)

a flat spot in the power band was exactly what it felt like. it just felt like the rpm's flattend out. but now it feels as if it flattens out and revs with no response. im about to go for a little ride in a few min here. i might take my camera and video what its's doing

as far as haivng a motorcycle guy ride the bike for a opinion, i don't know any one here in Tennessee that rides motorcycles. i moved here about 8 months ago and i never leave the house. i haven't bothered to go out and try to make friend.. latley i been quit content hanging out at home by my self..

[dannylightning]

after being told in a post that my clutch is slipping and reading some info that stated, when the clutch starts to slip it usually starts at a higher rpm and than starts slipping off the line later i got a little concerned and started playing around with it. lately i been really stressed out and have high anxiety levels.. i start worrying about things. if it starts to slip off the line than im gonna worry about it untill than im gonna drive it and not worry about it and assume it's just the flat spot in the power band. when i give it a lot of throttle i feel no flat spot or slipping feeling only when driving slow, i'm sure if it were slipping it would slip when i give it a lot of throttle too.

[adrianinflorida]

If it's only slipping at the top of the powerband, you'll notice it. It'll be almost like riding along at 50, or so, and all of a sudden pulling in the clutch, the engine will rev real high since it's no longer under load from the chain/rear wheel. More throttle usually makes a clutch that's starting to slip show itself, necause the increased engine output can no longer be transferred through the wrorn clutch to the drivetrain. It's sort of like brakes that are wearing out, they don't grip the disc/drum like they should and you get a faded feel to the brake pedal. A clutch relies on friction in a similar way.

[Easy Rider]

when i give it a lot of throttle i feel no flat spot or slipping feeling only when driving slow, i'm sure if it were slipping it would slip when i give it a lot of throttle too.

Yea! We finally got it. I love it when a plan comes together !! :cool:

[Water Warrior 2]

Thank Goodness it is almost resolved completely. Now, Danny, get out and meet some people. You will turn into a hermit and continue to agonize over non-issues. The path to insanity is not that long.

[dannylightning]

Thank Goodness it is almost resolved completely. Now, Danny, get out and meet some people. You will turn into a hermit and continue to agonize over non-issues. The path to insanity is not that long.

i have been a hermit for about 2 years now. and it sux. i might be putting my bike up for sale, might i halve to quit my job and move back to ohio and live with mom and dad.

i had a few heat stroke type things last summer. it finally got hot out here at night and i got over heated and felt like i was gonna die again, i thought i was over it i been spending a lot of time out side since up in the 80's a lot. when that humidity kicks in at night time (when i work) it feels like it's about 20 degrease hotter. i took the job here at night cus i thought i would be working in nice cool tempatures at night. guess not

i just spent about 3 hours at the doctor getting test done again hopefully they will figure something out..

[Water Warrior 2]

High temps and high humidity will suck the life out of you. Many years of been there done that. Hopefully the Doc's can find some relief for you.

[dannylightning]

High temps and high humidity will suck the life out of you. Many years of been there done that. Hopefully the Doc's can find some relief for you.


did you have a problem with being out in the heat, if so what did they tell you.. i looked up heat sensitivity on line and found a bunch of stuff that can cause it. i couldn't even walk out side with out feeling really weird yesterday. never had this problem till last summer till i had what seemed like a heat stroke but they say you usuall get over that in a week or rare cases could take a month or two.. but 9 months later.

annoying. i hope it was just my sinus infection making me feel like crap, probably wishful thinking tho, just started taking my medicine for that last night.. want to be out riding my bike or setting at the lake on a boat or something.. damn..

[Water Warrior 2]

High temps and high humidity will suck the life out of you. Many years of been there done that. Hopefully the Doc's can find some relief for you.


did you have a problem with being out in the heat, if so what did they tell you.. i looked up heat sensitivity on line and found a bunch of stuff that can cause it. i couldn't even walk out side with out feeling really weird yesterday. never had this problem till last summer till i had what seemed like a heat stroke but they say you usuall get over that in a week or rare cases could take a month or two.. but 9 months later.

annoying. i hope it was just my sinus infection making me feel like crap, probably wishful thinking tho, just started taking my medicine for that last night.. want to be out riding my bike or setting at the lake on a boat or something.. damn..


Always wear a baseball cap outside to keep the sun off your head. Get one that is light colored but search for one with a dark underside on the visor. A light underside on the visor/beak will reflect light into your eyes. If you are active outside take a break often and get into the shade and have some water. You must wear protective clothing(UV sucks) but something that will allow ventilation to cool you.

[alantf]

when that humidity kicks in at night time (when i work) it feels like it's about 20 degrease hotter.

Where I live, up in the mountains, the humidity runs at around 70% most of the time, & gets to 90%-95% in summer. It's so bad that we have to run small heaters in the wardrobe (closet?) all the time, to stop the clothes getting covered in mildew. Healthwise, though, any problems seem to be bronchial - I have a cough all the time, but apart from that we're so used to it that we don't seem to notice it anymore. That may happen to you. I hope so. :2tup:

[Easy Rider]

annoying. i hope it was just my sinus infection making me feel like crap, probably wishful thinking tho, just started taking my medicine for that last night..

And now for the REST of the story !!! :shocked:

Over the years, I've had a LOT of trouble with sinus infections and many times felt like I couldn't get up from a chair the first couple of days (kind of like the flu). It usually took me about 3 days to really feel much better.

[dannylightning]

[quote="Water Warrior":22smb6x1]High temps and high humidity will suck the life out of you. Many years of been there done that. Hopefully the Doc's can find some relief for you.


did you have a problem with being out in the heat, if so what did they tell you.. i looked up heat sensitivity on line and found a bunch of stuff that can cause it. i couldn't even walk out side with out feeling really weird yesterday. never had this problem till last summer till i had what seemed like a heat stroke but they say you usuall get over that in a week or rare cases could take a month or two.. but 9 months later.

annoying. i hope it was just my sinus infection making me feel like crap, probably wishful thinking tho, just started taking my medicine for that last night.. want to be out riding my bike or setting at the lake on a boat or something.. damn..


Always wear a baseball cap outside to keep the sun off your head. Get one that is light colored but search for one with a dark underside on the visor. A light underside on the visor/beak will reflect light into your eyes. If you are active outside take a break often and get into the shade and have some water. You must wear protective clothing(UV sucks) but something that will allow ventilation to cool you.[/quote:22smb6x1]

i drive a tractor around the air port hauling freight and i work midnights, im not in the sun. it just gets to feel really hot out there when the humidity kicks in. the tractor has vents that face you and blow the hot engine air right on you. how ever i did feel like my body temp was too hight when i got too hot at work. i went home burning up the rest of the night all day yesterday. i took my medicine yesterday evening and after a hour or two i was not burning up any more.. i am gonna have my fingers crossed that the sinus infection with a fever was taking a tole on me and that was my only problem..

[Water Warrior 2]

Hot air blowing on you means you should have a bottle of water with you at all times and keep drinking.
Otherwise you may get severe dehydration and not know it until it is too late.

[dannylightning]

Hot air blowing on you means you should have a bottle of water with you at all times and keep drinking.
Otherwise you may get severe dehydration and not know it until it is too late.

i have a big water bottle i keep with me at work at all times. than i usually have a 20oz soda bottle or two filled up with water for a back up if i cant make it to a place to fill my water bottle back up.