Be careful when getting fuel

[fa11enzer0]

Today I stopped by the suzuki dealership for some advice on my gz250 issue (see trouble shooting bike fell=stalling, if you want to give some advice...) and he gave me a good bit of info in reguards to gasolines and some stuff gas companies were trying to get away with, so I felt I should share this info just in case it could help anyone.
He mentioned to me that since gas now has ethanol in it all kinds of weird issues are coming up in bikes of all kinds. 10% ethanol isn't horrible on a bike, but he said to be careful since some states/gas stations don't display the content (even though they legally have to...) and some gas companies are sneaking more ethanol into their product. and more ethanol means bad news for bikes and small engines...so be careful out there when ya get gas these days.

[GZ250]

careful for what - this is one part of information that most of the drivers know that 10% ethonal is mixed but which companies are sneaking more is the real question so that we should be careful not to visist those gas pumps and i think no one can tell or be sure about that so be happy and keep your bikes tuned up. i use 87 and 93 in rotations to keep happy both left and right groups :).

[burkbuilds]

I found that my GZ doesn't run very well on even 10% ethanol, neither do my lawn mowers or weed eaters for that matter. Much harder to start and my gas mileage drops off by about 10% with the ethanol. I've found three stations in my immediate area that sell only NO ethanol gasoline, and I patronize them! I would advise everybody to do the same if they have a choice.

[music man]

I found that my GZ doesn't run very well on even 10% ethanol, neither do my lawn mowers or weed eaters for that matter. Much harder to start and my gas mileage drops off by about 10% with the ethanol. I've found three stations in my immediate area that sell only NO ethanol gasoline, and I patronize them! I would advise everybody to do the same if they have a choice.


There is basically NO gas stations in Hot Springs with no ethanol, I don't know of any right now, so i am stuck using that shit.

[dannylightning]

i dont know of any stations that have streight gasoline.. i do notice some places i fill up the bike will run better than others.

[alantf]

There is basically NO gas stations in Hot Springs with no ethanol,

Ethanol? Never heard about it being added to petrol. Is it just an American thing, or is it worldwide, & they just haven't got round to telling us about it?

You've probably heard about "the mushroom method" of informing people - keep you in the dark for six months, then shit on you!

[dannylightning]

There is basically NO gas stations in Hot Springs with no ethanol,

Ethanol? Never heard about it being added to petrol. Is it just an American thing, or is it worldwide, & they just haven't got round to telling us about it?

You've probably heard about "the mushroom method" of informing people - keep you in the dark for six months, then shit on you!

i believe they do this because it saves the oil company money to make the gasoline that way.. it is crap but they say it's safe.. i hear gas with the ethanol will reduce how many miles pergallon your vehicle gets. not sure if that statement is correct but some one once told me that.

[mrlmd1]

There is basically NO gas stations in Hot Springs with no ethanol,

Ethanol? Never heard about it being added to petrol. Is it just an American thing, or is it worldwide, & they just haven't got round to telling us about it?

You've probably heard about "the mushroom method" of informing people - keep you in the dark for six months, then shit on you!

It's supposed to lower the exhaust emissions - less nitric oxides, more clean air, stuff like that. The problem is that ethanol has less energy (BTU's) than gasoline, so your mileage and power suffer from the blend. It is also a big problem for boats in the marine world, it absorbs water and can seriously damage some fuel lines and fiberglass tanks in boats. But the gov't. makes the rules so, right or wrong, who you gonna complain to? It had been used mostly as a winter blend up in the northeast over here, now is pretty common all over. Is not very economical considering the lower mpg cost, but there are powerful lobbyists all over this country trying to promote more ethanol use.

[alanmcorcoran]

It's mostly political. Theoretically, ethanol is a "renewable" (and therefore "greener") choice, but I think it's really more about the fact that we grow corn in the good old USA and we import oil from the bad old Middle East. There are questionable economics - quite a few economists believe the push for more ethanol raised the prices for everyone on food. Worse yet, some of the less choice grains that might have fed the starving now go to produce ethanol. So more of the starving, well... starve. Plus there is the cost of fertilizers and water and runoff and a lot of other not-so-green stuff that must take place to grow the "crude" for the ethanol. I think most cars run on it okay, but there's warnings right in the Suzuki manual about staying away from it.

I don't think we have it in CA.

[dannylightning]

im gonna look for a gas station that does not contain ethonal.. there is this littel meat market by my house they have only 2 gas pumps out front and there gas is more expensive than everywhere else.. i think next time i got out for a ride i will stop in and ask them if they have that crapola in their gas or not.

if they don't i might run my car and my bike to empty (well amost empty) fill up there and see if i really notice a difference in how they drive.
maybe ill be lucky and find pure gasoline there. you know i got a little scared the first time i notice the gas i put in my car was a blue or green looking. i thought i had just filled up with diesel. but no it was just the ethanol and i had no idea they were putting that in the gasoline.

[dannylightning]

It's mostly political. Theoretically, ethanol is a "renewable" (and therefore "greener") choice, but I think it's really more about the fact that we grow corn in the good old USA and we import oil from the bad old Middle East. There are questionable economics - quite a few economists believe the push for more ethanol raised the prices for everyone on food. Worse yet, some of the less choice grains that might have fed the starving now go to produce ethanol. So more of the starving, well... starve. Plus there is the cost of fertilizers and water and runoff and a lot of other not-so-green stuff that must take place to grow the "crude" for the ethanol. I think most cars run on it okay, but there's warnings right in the Suzuki manual about staying away from it.

I don't think we have it in CA.

it will have a really small sticker some place on the gas pump if it does. saying how much of the crap it contains.. take a look next time you fill up. like i said i had no idea they were putting that stuff in the gas till i noticed the color was funny looking.

[Easy Rider]

I don't think we have it in CA.

I'd be VERY surprised if you don't.
One of the advantages is a reduction in some undesirable tailpipe emission (don't remember which one) and since MTBE has been banned AND since California is obsessed with reducing noxious emissions (with good reason)..........I can't see them passing up the opportunity.

[5th_bike]

They call it "oxygenated gasoline" because it has oxygen in with the carbon and hydrogen, same for MTBE and ethanol.

Two entirely correct terms for what they sell us nowadays are therefore "partially burnt gasoline" and "watered down gasoline".

[dannylightning]

there is this littel meat market by my house they have only 2 gas pumps out front and there gas is more expensive than everywhere else.. i think next time i got out for a ride i will stop in and ask them if they have that crapola in their gas or not.

i took a drive by there today and they had the sticker saying the gas contains 10% horse crap too.

[burkbuilds]

I've found a Chevron station, an Exxon Station and one Shell station in my area that have NO ethanol in their fuel but those were individual stations, I've seen other Shell, Chevron and Exxon stations that do have Ethanol, so it's not a brand thing. All I can tell you is it's worth looking for to me, and if you find one, tell the people who own it that you are glad it has no Ethanol and that is why you are buying from them instead of someone else. They add the ethanol at the "local" level, so maybe if you call the distributors in your area they could tell you if anyone was selling gas without ethanol in it.

[dannylightning]

I've found a Chevron station, an Exxon Station and one Shell station in my area that have NO ethanol in their fuel but those were individual stations, I've seen other Shell, Chevron and Exxon stations that do have Ethanol, so it's not a brand thing. All I can tell you is it's worth looking for to me, and if you find one, tell the people who own it that you are glad it has no Ethanol and that is why you are buying from them instead of someone else. They add the ethanol at the "local" level, so maybe if you call the distributors in your area they could tell you if anyone was selling gas without ethanol in it.

im suprized, i will halve to look around more. do you know how to find the distributors phone numbers..

[alantf]

do you know how to find the distributors phone numbers..

Yes. Phone them & ask 'em.

[dannylightning]

do you know how to find the distributors phone numbers..

Yes. Phone them & ask 'em.

well i understand that but when i google gasoline distributors memphis tennessee nothing comes up in the area but a few propane places and holingsworth oil witch is about 200 miles away.

[Easy Rider]

I've found a Chevron station, an Exxon Station and one Shell station in my area that have NO ethanol in their fuel but those were individual stations,

That might be misleading. A better source of information might be the state EPA.....to see what the requirements ARE for your area. Some stations might just be lazy about posting the stickers.

[Sarris]

I'm fairly sure 10% ethanol is a federal mandate that was put in effect when gas hit $3 last year to stretch reserves. I'm fairly sure it's here to stay.

:skull:

[burkbuilds]

Here's the EPA website that answers a bunch of these questions if you want to read them. http://www.epa.gov/OMS/renewablefuels/420f07062.htm#12 If I'm reading this correctly California has some type of waiver on the requirements because they complied with something called a 209(b) waiver. Also Alaska, Hawaii and all U.S. Territories are exempt from mandatory compliance, however refiners located in all those places are still required to use a certain percentage of Ethanol in their gas each year unless they are considered a "small refiner" where those regulations might impose an economic hardship. This requirement increases the amount they have to blend each year for several years, either through 2012 or 2025, I had trouble figuring out which year the most recent legislation indicated. By the way, this type of legislation gets changed a lot from what I read, so what was required by the Clean Air Act of 1990 was changed by an amendment in 2005, which was overtaken by the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 which was changed by the Renewable Fuel Standard for 2009 legislation . . . well you get the idea. Some of the stuff I read said that the States were the ones who got to choose if they wanted to mandate that stations had to sell this stuff, but the Feds are requiring refiners to put it in to a certain amount of fuel each year so that may be a mute point if it becomes unavailable without ethanol in it at some point. I also read that the EPA doesn't require stations to post the label telling you it has ethanol, that is left up to each state's legislators, so some states may require the label and others may not. EPA admitted that there was a 30% loss of energy in a gallon of pure ethanol vs pure gasoline, but they deny that a 10% blend would make a noticable difference, (I noticed it though).
There seems to be a lot of money behind all of this, I noticed that Bill Gates has a chunk invested in an Ethanol Refinery plant and it was obvious that corn growing states were getting a lot of government money to produce this stuff, just drive through the corn belt and you'll see lots of new looking silo's and such along the major highways with big signs on them about ethanol.
No doubt the stuff is corrosive to both metal and things like gaskets, seals, hoses, so newer cars (and I assume motorcycles) are manufactured with some changes to help them handle the corrosive aspects, older units will probably have some issues with it. That's one reason refineries are opposed to using it, it eats up their equipment and pipelines but the boys in Washington are mandating it anyway so it's only going to increase in use. By the way, one reason your local retailers use it is that they get $0.50 per gallon from the government for every gallon they sell so that makes it more profitable for them than selling pure gasoline! I'm not sure when that subsidy runs out, some legislation seemed to indicate that it was scheduled to end in December of 2008, but I didn't read all the legislation to see if that has been extended or renewed to some future date.
Hope this info is helpful.

As to finding a local distributor for gas to call and ask look in the Yellow pages under Oils-Fuel and you will probably find them, there are 7 listed in my local directory that way. If nothing else look for a "farm" of those huge fuel storage silos just outside of town(usually) and drive over and ask, that's usually a terminal for a pipeline and then the 18 wheelers take it from there to the local gas stations.

[alantf]

do you know how to find the distributors phone numbers..

Yes. Phone them & ask 'em.

well i understand that

No ......... I don't think you do!............ It was a joke!

[music man]

I'm fairly sure 10% ethanol is a federal mandate that was put in effect when gas hit $3 last year to stretch reserves. I'm fairly sure it's here to stay.

:skull:


My wife runs a convenience store, and she said that they switch back and forth between ethanol mixed gas and pure gas all the time, I guess it just depends on whats cheaper at that exact moment. and ethanol also will plug up the fuel filter on anything that was run for a long time before they put ethanol in gas (older cars in other words) because it cleans the shit out of everything it comes in contact with. When they first starting using ethanol at my wife's store they had to change out the filters on the tanks and hoses about 2-3 times a week because they would get stopped up with crap that had been stuck in those tanks for years. Also about 2 tankfuls in to using it, she had to change the fuel filter on her car.

It is what it is, I am like Sarris, unless it becomes unprofitable for the government, I doubt you will see it go away anytime soon. And my wife has also already heard through her "Gasoline Grapevine" that we are most likely gonna see 3 dollar a gallon gas this summer, YIPPY!!!!!!!!

[dannylightning]

Yes. Phone them & ask 'em.

well i understand that[/quote]

No ......... I don't think you do!............ It was a joke![/quote]

o thanks lol..

[alantf]

o thanks lol..

I would've put one of them little smiley face thingies in, but I don't know how to do that.

[burkbuilds]

I also noticed that my local Sam's club and the Murphy gas stations in front of the local Wal Mart sell gas with no ethanol. Don't know if that's company wide, but you might check it out in your area.

[dannylightning]

o thanks lol..

I would've put one of them little smiley face thingies in, but I don't know how to do that.

well there as a box for quick reply you type in.. if you wan the smiles right above that on the left there is a thing you can click that says post reply. and the smiley faces will show up.. :neener:

[dannylightning]

I also noticed that my local Sam's club and the Murphy gas stations in front of the local Wal Mart sell gas with no ethanol. Don't know if that's company wide, but you might check it out in your area.

i was reading some reviews of Murphy gas people are saying some of them have it some of them don't, depends on the walmart/sams club you go to. a lot of people said they buy Murphy gas and get les mpg and the car does not run as well so they would rather buy the more expensive gas that does have the ethanol rather than get cheep gas and less mpg.. my car does not run as good at the cheep stations, i notice more mpg at different gas stations. some of the major gas stations are supposed to put better cleaning additives in their gasoline and i have always heard the discount gas stations don't put much of that kind of thing in there at all. when i get gas at shell my car always seems to have a little more pep, a few times i have got up over 40mpg but only on the shell gas.. at other stations i get 30-32 mpg in my car.

first few times i filled up my bike it was at the mom and pop station, i like to to suport local busineess instead of the major chains but i filled up at a shell and the bike ran better right away. so now i only go to the mom and pop shop for soda, smokes and to get the sausage sandwiches they make when i get off work in the morning. but lately the sandwich suck, they were always fresh and hot now they are usually barley warm and dont taste so fresh.. think they went from making them new every morning to making a bunch at a time and heating them up. next time i get one and it sux i will complain and tell them ill start going to McDonald instead if they continue to suck..

[alantf]

if you wan the smiles there is a thing you can click

Thanks! Didn't realise it was that easy. Computers are still somewhat of a mystery to me. After over half a century of using the stub of a pencil on the back of a cigarette packet, there is now this magic box that actually writes things for me, & then sends them so that I don't have to go to the post box down the street.

[dannylightning]

I found that my lawn mowers or weed eaters Much harder to start and my gas mileage drops off by about 10% with the ethanol.

what kind of gas millage do you get on that weed eater :whistle: ha ha ha i saw the opportunity there and couldn't pass it up

[burkbuilds]

I get about 2 yards to the quart.

[Water Warrior 2]

I get about 2 yards to the quart. Better economy than an SUV. lol.

[dannylightning]

I get about 2 yards to the quart. Better economy than an SUV. lol.

yes you drive 2 yards in one of those and next thing you know you only have half a tank :lol:
i miss my 4x4 pickup but damn i couldn't afford to drive the damn thing..

[roncg41677]

dannylightning, where did that all come from? 3 words, TMI :neener: . Just kidding.

Funny you mentioned Shell, seems I just read somewhere else that Shell stations were ethanol free (save for burk-builds mention of a Shell station that wasn't). The few places I go (Murphy/WalMart, and the local Cumberland Farms) both "proudly" contain ethanol. Putting corn in my tank just seems too "Back-to-the-Future"-ish (part 2, that is).

[Easy Rider]

Funny you mentioned Shell, seems I just read somewhere else that Shell stations were ethanol free

Certainly NOT universally true. Some places it is required.
Unless maybe Shell doesn't serve those areas ???