Howdy from the plains.

[bigvariable]

Hey guys, new to this forum, but don't get me wrong, I'm not new to forums in general. I'm and 18 year-old freshman student at Auburn University studying architecture.

I'm looking to buy my first motorcycle. I've done some research and narrowed it down to three bikes: Suzuki GZ250, Honda Rebel 250, or a Yamaha 250 Virago. It just depends on how much I sell my car for. Any suggestions? Oh, and one more question.

Would it be smart to sell the car and rely on a bike completely?

[adrianinflorida]

You'll find we're a bit biased towards one of the bikes you've narrowed down to. :)
As for the motorcycle as your only transport, it should work if you live on campus and don't have any regular long distance trips to make in inclement weather.

[roncg41677]

If taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Beginning Rider Course isn't mandated by your state, I'd HIGHLY recommend it. The riding skills you'll learn are invaluable.

...and welcome :biggrin:

[bigvariable]

If taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Beginning Rider Course isn't mandated by your state, I'd HIGHLY recommend it. The riding skills you'll learn are invaluable.

...and welcome :biggrin:

Actually, in Alabama, it isn't mandatory. But, to be honest, I pride my self on learning things through experience. I think I can learn the basic skills by taking the first few months slow and being as careful as possible. Call me stupid, call me naive, call me what you want. I think i can handle a motorcycle, but I'll figure that out when I get one. And not to mention, with being in college, I don't really have the time or the money for it.

That's the main reason I decided to sell my car and get a motorcycle. My insurance on my Mitsubishi 3000GT right now is $1200 per year, and on a motorcycle it would be much cheaper, depending on what bike I get. But thanks for heads up though.

[roncg41677]

It's worth waiting until you can take it. There are things you'll learn that do not come naturally (i.e. counter-steering, looking ahead to where you want to go, emergency braking etc.) The time spent practicing in a lot with a trained teacher are well worth it.

Just my opinion.

[alanmcorcoran]

big,

everyone kicks me about this, but, if you take your time, do a little research on the Internet, and, if you can afford it, buy and read Proficient Motorcycling, you'll be fine. I am in a very small minority on here, but I found the MSF course to be mostly a waste of time. Many of the the things that are mentioned above that "don't come naturally" are also part of learning to ride a bicycle and I don't know many people that take a course for that. There are some very key things you want to practice and master - and they all can be found in Proficient and in other sources on-line.

Take it easy for the first 300 or so miles and wear all the stuff. Don't rush it! Also, you are young and probably will end up meeting up with other young male experienced riders. DO NOT TRY TO KEEP UP WITH THEM. It takes some time to get up to speed, and riding beyond your experience, while tempting, is a quick way to die.

If you have no money, try and find some used gear. You can hurt yourself pretty good, even on a GZ. Of the three bikes you are looking at, I would eliminate the Rebel. The Suzuki is more versatile, has a bigger gas tank, bigger tires and handles better (I think, the specs may have changed on the rebel). I'm not familiar with the other one.

The GZ is a very easy bike to ride and is generally pretty forgiving. But be careful - it goes pretty damn fast for a small bike and, in slippery conditions, (sand, water, etc.) it will go down just like the big ones. Stay off the highway until you have 300 or so miles, and then, stick with the 50 mph ones until you have 500-600 miles.

Two things to watch out for from the moment you set out on public roads: (1) cars making a left in front of you (and into your lane) Slow down when you see them sitting there - many of them will not "see" you. (2) take it easy on the turns. Don't worry about your speed on curves. It will develop naturally over time. Slow down BEFORE you turn, speed up a little on the way out. Avoid braking when you are leaned over.

These two things are the two biggest causes of MC fatalities. Left turn into you, and losing control in a turn.

(some of the other guys are gonna razz me 'cuz I dropped my big bike a couple times. I deserve it for that, but there is a world of difference between the GZ and my other bike. Other than scaring the shit out of myself a few times when learning to ride on the CA freeways, the GZ has been a pretty tame ride.)

Most importantly, have fun!

big,

I am in a very small minority on here, but I found the MSF course to be mostly a waste of time.

Just a different perspective on the MSF course:

As a person with little motorcycling experience, I found the course very helpful. The largest benefit, to me, was that the course sets the tone for how you view motorcycling. They stress safety, but without a preachy tone, from the first minute on through, be it the classroom sessions or the field training. Not coincidentally, that is how I now approach motorcylcing. A lot of the good advice you hear on this forum, I heard for the first time there. All of the instuctors I had were experienced riders giving back to the motorcyling community (I mean 30 - 40 years). You don't want access to that kind of wisdom/experience? BTW, had a guy in my class who had been riding over 30 years, but the state made him take the course b/c of a drunk driving offense: He said he learned things he didn't know (and I hear this happens a lot).

Moreover, you compact in a short amount of time a lot of things people say they will do, but never get around to actually doing (read, watch instructional video clips, practice safe techniques, etc.). If I do things the "right" way, and I think I do (ATTGATT, T-CLOCK checks, know my and the bike's limits, scan ahead as I ride, counter steer, etc.), the MSF course was an instrumental step in getting me there.

You're young and impatient, and like most of us at your age, you probably think you know more than you actually do. Not judging you. Been there, done that. I guess the most impressive thing I could tell you about this topic is that I have daughters almost your age and both have expressed interest in learning how to ride: I will insist both take the MSF course. I understand money is an issue, but owning a motocycle is almost like owning a boat: you will spend more money than you think. If there is any way for you to find the money for this, well, how much is your life worth? Think of it that way.

Keith

Whatever your decision, ride safe and have fun!

[Easy Rider]

But, to be honest, I pride my self on learning things through experience.

No real surprise there; pretty typical for most 18 year olds.

Those of us who have passed through SEVERAL 18 year increments know, however, that experience alone is not REALLY the best teacher, for it sometimes teaches you bad habits.
Some of those bad habits may put your life in jeopardy.

Did I mention that you are not invincible ??? :biggrin:

Anyhow, welcome to the forum. Most of us here think the GZ would be the best choice, partly because it looks and feels (to some degree) like a bigger bike. Since you probably won't be able to get any test drives (no license and all), sit on the 3 choices and favor the one that feels the best. You probably won't really go "wrong" with any of them.

How are your bicycle skills and experience? It is important that you can ride a bicycle before you move up to a motorcycle.....honestly.

As for the bike being your only transportation, only YOU can make that call.......but remember that riding at ~30 mph, if you are soaking wet, can feel VERY cold .....regardless of the real outside temperature.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[Easy Rider]

everyone kicks me about this, but, if you take your time, do a little research on the Internet, and, if you can afford it, buy and read Proficient Motorcycling, you'll be fine.

Well THAT was a really disappointing post. :skull:
Maybe there is a good reason that "everyone kicks me about this". :cry:

I guess maybe you are on the cusp of the "my experience is more important than the collective wisdom of others" generation. Younger folks just don't get it and tend to fight the "conventional wisdom" to the death but I thought you had more savy.

Let me just say: It is an undisputable fact that all people are NOT the same. Their skills and abilities differ widely. I know that you think you are providing good advice but, for a person that you really know nothing about, it just is NOT......really.

Mentioning your considered opinion is one thing; "preaching" that your experience somehow applies to everybody and "you'll be fine" is quite a different thing.

Ponder upon that for a bit, please ??

P.S. The REST of your post was excellent but you really need to get over this "if I did it, you can too" recommendation. Really.

[alanmcorcoran]

Easy,

Perhaps you didn't actually read my post. I DID take the MSF course. Try and realize the possibility that not everyone has the same opinion as you and the value of the forum is to hear from as many voices as possible. It's the American way.

I never said "my experience is more important..." but you essentially did.

[Easy Rider]

Perhaps you didn't actually read my post.

Perhaps you need to read your OWN post again.......and consider how it sounds......as opposed to what you may have intended.....although I suspect it reflects what you intended perfectly.

"if you take your time, do a little research on the Internet, and, if you can afford it, buy and read Proficient Motorcycling, you'll be fine. "

You might be "fine" but the overwhelming opinion (not just mine) and available statistics both indicate that the odds are "you" will be much more likely to be "fine" if you get some formal training.

[mrlmd1]

To add to this - to buy a motorcycle and think you can learn how to ride it and teach yourself over time is basically not wise. Just like you are studying architecture - do you think you can design a well functioning building or bridge just by trial and error over time? If so, what are you going to school for? To learn, right? There are things that would be taught to you in the MSF class that you would never even dream of, and that class is designed not only to teach you how to ride, but to ride safe, to keep you from getting injured or killed. If there wasn't some kind of need for them, the courses wouldn't be given and many states require them before you can get an endorsement on your driver's license in order to ride one. I've read both of the Proficient, and More Proficient Motorcycle Riding books, and while they are a quick read and enjoyable, no way do they replace the value of the classroom and hands-on instruction of the MSF class where there is someone demonstrating, watching you, and critiquing your riding techniques to give you some skills. Like I said on another post somewhere on here, it's cheap enough, it's easier to learn how to do it right the first time rather than to try and unlearn bad habits, it's an investment of a weekend's time, and it's cheaper and less time consuming than going to the ER or having an extended stay in the hospital.

[bigvariable]

How are your bicycle skills and experience? It is important that you can ride a bicycle before you move up to a motorcycle.....honestly.



I love bicycles. In junior high school, I rode a bicycle to school every day. I've ridden just about every type of bike, mountain, BMX, road bikes, and taught myself to ride no-hands style. Haha.

But thanks for all the advice, guys. I think I'm pretty much set on a GZ instead of a Rebel. It really all depends on how much I can sell my car for.

[mrlmd1]

You, like everyone else on here who comes looking for advice, will take away that advice that seems to be what he wants to hear, rather than what may be best. So, if you want to teach yourself, then read as much as you can, books, other websites, videos, etc, go slow, and practice, practice, practice, before you dash out into unexpected territory. I personally don't think riding a bike and a motorcycle are close except for initial balance, as the speeds on a motorcycle, the steering at both low and high speeds, and the weight, is drastically different, and the use of front and rear brakes either alone or in combination, is quite different for different maneuvers on a motorcycle. But I guess you will learn that, maybe, eventually by yourself, if you manage to stay upright. Welcome to our forum and be safe. And the GZ is the best bike all around, reliable, simple to work on, inexpensive to maintain, and help is always on here.

[Water Warrior 2]

bigvariable, welcome to the forum and it's dueling members. As you can see there are different camps when rider training comes up. Here's my take on the subject. Rider training is the best life insurance you can buy and you get to use it everyday. As for being self taught, ask me if I think I learned anything from lessons after street riding accident free for over 40 years. Learned a lot, and unlearning bad habits was the hardest. I had to retrain a lot of muscle memory stuff. Riding is much less tiring and more relaxing even in heavier traffic. Oh before I forget, you should(in my opinion)have armored riding gear in case of an oops. Ride Safe.

[Easy Rider]

I personally don't think riding a bike and a motorcycle are close except for initial balance, ..........

Balance IS a pretty important thing, don't you think? :poke2: :biggrin:

Some (all?) MSF courses won't accept students that cannot demonstrate the ability to ride a bicycle.

And, just for the record, I never took a course or read a how-to book ever in my ~42 year riding career. I did, however, spend the first 3 years or so on a REALLY small bike (Honda S90), mostly riding across dirt and gravel roads and farm pastures.....even in the winter in ice and snow and occasionally mud. When I started there were no classes and no special drivers license. (There were SOME paved roads..... :biggrin: )

I have survived riding for 40 years so it is possible.

I recommend that all new riders take the course for three main reasons:

I had some bad habits from being self-trained. One was an aversion to the front brake.....which I quickly unlearned. I somehow also got in the habit of leaning the wrong way in turns. I did that for SO long.....maybe 10 years or more, that it took me about 2 years to UN-learn it and I still catch myself doing it wrong occasionally.

ALL of the motorcycle guru's and "expert" riders and the major bike magazines and the Insurance Institute and the NTSB and ON AND ON.....ALL recommend taking the course. Nobody that I know of recommends NOT taking it.......except a few ill-advised individuals.

And lastly, many of the folks who are on the fence about taking the course are YOUNG first time riders. Most older first time riders who know about the course don't question it's desirability. The things you learn, right or wrong, when you are young are the things that stick with you the longest. So, if you learn it wrong when you are young and just starting out, it may be VERY difficult to re-learn it the right way.

[roncg41677]

The things you learn, right or wrong, when you are young are the things that stick with you the longest. So, if you learn it wrong when you are young and just starting out, it may be VERY difficult to re-learn it the right way.
:plus1:
Learn it right the first time. Better to find out what happens when you grab the front brake with the wheel turned at a slow speed in a controlled environment than in a parking lot or on the street.

[alanmcorcoran]

I've posted my review of MSF elsewhere and I stand by it. The short version: 13 hours of either sitting watching videos (which you can do at home [Thanks Patrick!]) or sitting on the bike combined with 2 hours of actual riding, 1 of which is duck walking around and basic stuff like shifting into first. Yes, there are some tips, but all of this is covered much more efficiently in Proficient Motorcycling. Perhaps the course is not the same everywhere. I did find it funny that Easy is taking me to task for having an opinion about a course I took, (and aced) when he has not taken it himself.

I also went to college and, except for the women, parties and other distractions, I thought that was even a bigger waste of time (for me, anyway.)

...and ronc, I don't know exactly what your point is, but, as I said, I took the course, passed it with flying colors and it didn't prevent me from dropping my bike. Perhaps if more time was spent on actual practice and instruction instead of effing around with cones, or the other six riders, or lining up the bikes in formation, or reading the instructor's manual or the testing, or the rest of the time wasting.

As Sarris is done with helmets, and Dupo is done with pipes, I'm done with the MSF.

[Easy Rider]

I also went to college and, except for the women, parties and other distractions, I thought that was even a bigger waste of time (for me, anyway.)

As Sarris is done with helmets, and Dupo is done with pipes, I'm done with the MSF.

Well THAT pretty much tells the whole story then, doesn't it! I agree, college is for dummies......so much so that I dropped out after 3 semesters.....oh, hell, I flunked out .....due to women, parties and other distractions !!! :roll:

Let me try this ONE more time, Alan. I don't mean for one second that you should not express your honest opinion or describe your life experineces and they way they affected YOU.

What I DO think is irresponsible behavior is to encourage OTHERS, whom you don't really know a thing about, to go against the conventional wisdom with the disclaimer "you will be fine".
There is a BIG difference. I know you are intelligent enough to know that......if you just pull in your claws for a second and think about it.

And yes, from what I have heard most MSF classes are MUCH different than what you described. I believe the one here includes 2 half days of on-the-bike instruction and practice, in addition to the classroom time.

Now I'm done chewing on Alan about the MSF.......so you can add me to the list with Sarris and Dupo.......oh, and anybody who believes any of THAT should contact me about some ocean front property in Nebraska that I have for sale. :whistle: :biggrin:

[roncg41677]

...and ronc, I don't know exactly what your point is, but, as I said, I took the course, passed it with flying colors and it didn't prevent me from dropping my bike. Perhaps if more time was spent on actual practice and instruction instead of effing around with cones, or the other six riders, or lining up the bikes in formation, or reading the instructor's manual or the testing, or the rest of the time wasting.

As Sarris is done with helmets, and Dupo is done with pipes, I'm done with the MSF.
Alan, sounds like the course you took was either over-crowded or your teacher just wasn't that good. Mine was nothing like that. Lots of good helpful insight from our facilitator. I could understand why that would be a waste of money. We had lots of time actually running through exercises with good instruction at the front and good observation and feedback during. By the time we were done almost all of us could handle the bike pretty well (especially considering how some of us were coming into it :))

Locking up your brakes while you're practicing an emergency stop with a trained rider watching and telling you exactly what you did wrong is much more desirable than locking them up in rush hour traffic when the car in front of you stops suddenly. At least that's my opinion. That was my point.

...and for the record, I'm done with hijacking welcome threads. :biggrin:

[Water Warrior 2]

Alan, sounds like you got short changed in the rider training. When Lynda and I went for training we had two 3 hour evening classes and four days on the bikes for actual riding. A total of 30 hours and it was well worth it. Please do not judge all rider training schools as a waste of time based on your experience. You are doing a disservice to a lot of dedicated instructors out there.

[alantf]

Can't say yes or no to the training classes. Like easy, I started riding before they were even thought about. In the 60s, when I started out, there just wasn't that much traffic about. The test (in England) just consisted of the examiner standing on the sidewalk while the rider went clockwise round the block, then anticlockwise. A few questions on "the highway code" (the government book on do's & dont's), then you got your licence.
The one thing I do know, though, is that I had not had my licence very long when I braked hard on a patch of gravel, flew over the handlebars, & suffered the only broken bone I've ever had in my life. I was 3 months in plaster with a broken wrist (the scaphoid bone, doc)
I do think, however, that nowadays there is much more to riding than there was in my youth. Given the much lower volume of traffic, we could concentrate on the riding. Now I find that I need to do the actual controlling of the bike automatically, while 90% of my brain is watching what's going on around me. Like I said, I don't know anything about the course, but it can't hurt, can it?