Yes, alantf, the air really is bad in Los Angeles...

[alanmcorcoran]

I wanted to at least pay a little respect to Patrick's etiquette, so I moved the air pollution discussion over here.

Fewer places on earth have as many restrictions on air quality related activities than the Los Angeles basin. Everyone knows we have extra stuff on our cars. You may not know that:

1) we have specially formulated gas.
2) We cannot burn anything outdoors.
3) We have little hoodies on the gas pumps to capture the evaporation.
4) ALL cars have to have their emissions checked every two years or you can't register, insure or drive them.
5) There are rules for fireplaces, lawn mowers, cow shit, asphalt paving, dry cleaning, and much much more.

It's pretty overbearing, but, for the most part, if the AQMD wants it, and they prove that it will reduce air pollution, they get it. And, guess what? Except for the polluters targeted, most people are quite happy with the AQMD. Why?

Because the air IS polluted! But it's a lot less polluted now than it used to be (in the seventies), even though there are a lot more people here now than there were then.

You mention that they monitor the air quality in Tenerife and it's "fine." Well, they monitor it here too. Somedays it is breathable, but many days it is definitely NOT FINE and it is recommended one stay indoors (and try not to breath too much.)

It's nice to have them monitoring it, but, the monitoring is only necessary if you want some scientific precision. When the air is bad, you can plainly SEE it. And FEEL it. The mountains disappear first. Then they are replaced by a reddish brown haze that is plainly visible with the naked eye. And, if you are looking at it with your naked eye, your naked eyes are likely burning. And so are your lungs if you are working outdoors.

I am not familiar with the geography of tenerife, but you said it's an island. More than likely, all the shitty air you are generating is blowing away from the island to somewhere else, where it becomes their problem. In the LA basin, we are surrounded by relatively high mountains on three sides and, in the summer in particular, there is no place for the crap to blow to, so it just sits right above our heads.

So please, do not dismiss the efforts of the "homo vegetarians" (actually, I'm guessing that the AQMD is mostly red meat eating, straight [possibly virgin] nerds, but that's another discussion) to keep Southern California air breathable. Air pollution is real, it sucks and there are effective things one can do to fix it, or at least reduce it.

When the rest of the world is choking on its own farts you will thank us (or the homos) for spending the time and money to develop and support cleaner ways of doing things.

I have a neighbor who used to travel to Beijing and Shanghai on a regular basis; he said when he returned to his hotel room at night after a day of being around town, he would take off his sportcoat and the part of his shirt that was exposed was a smudged grey, the part unexposed was its usual white. Now imagine all that sh** in your lungs; now imagine your lungs after 50 years of breathing in that sh**.

I saw a doctor on TV once (I think it was on "Oprah", but don't tell anyone that) who brought lungs and other internal organs from dead people to show people what "normal" and "abnormal" looked like. He showed a non-smoker's lung who lived in a rural area. Then he held up a non-smoker's lung who lived in a major American city and contrasted them. The guy who lived in the city looked like he smoked a pack of cigarettes a day - black and stained beyond belief. Not sure why they'd be homos, but I'm glad someone's trying to deal with it.

Keith

[alantf]

By the way, the name's Alan. The tf is the licence plate code for Tenerife. I use that as a computer name because every time I tried to use just alan the computer would tell me that it was taken. Same with my e-mail. My second name's maxfield, so I wanted to use madmax, but it wouldn't let me, so I use madmaxtf.

As for the "homo" thing, it's just that I was citing the things that the political animals are telling us we must accept, same as tree hugging, veggie, whale saving, black, lesbian. I'm not saying it's all bad, but I'm sick of having every nutter's crackpot ideas forced down my throat.

One of the craziest things in England is that you're not allowed to smoke in any public building, such as bars, restaurants, workplaces (even company cars, even if no one else ever gets in them) yet if you want to take drugs in the same premises the police will turn the other way.

As for the pollution problems you have, yes, I didn't realise they were so bad, but surely, if the emission controls that are in place are having such a small benificial effect, doesn't that show that they're wrong. If, after such drastic measures as you describe, there is still a problem, surely there must be someone who can come up with a solution. Moving slightly away for a moment, England had real problems in the 1950s with smog (SMoke/fOG) The problem was that most of the houses had coal fires, & the smoke was polluting the atmosphere so much that we called them "pea soup" because it was so thick you could nearly cut it. The solution was to force all the coal merchants to sell only smokeless fuel. The problem was solved at a stroke. I know (think!) that this is not the problem in your area, but if it's as bad as you make out, surely someone can come up with a better idea than, for example, cannisters on bikes that can make only the most minute difference.

[alanmcorcoran]

Dude, you gotta take some more care with your metaphors. Did you intend to suggest that homosexuality was "being forced down your throat"?! (Okay, I'm just fucking with you.)

I personally don't know if the canister thing works or not, and I don't know what the impact of it on the running of the engine is. The point I was trying to make is that not all tree-huggery is bullshit. I'm not gay, I eat meat (although no whale so far) but I don't have a problem with homos or vegetarians. I think you should be able to drug yourself, smoke yourself and, frankly kill yourself as long as you aren't bothering anyone else, so I think we mainly agree. I'm an ex-smoker and my wife still smokes. I'd probably still smoke weed too if it was legalized. (By the way, OUR tree huggers are in favor of legalizing weed, so... hmmmm.)

Yes there is still an issue in LA and there probably always will be, but a lot of progress has been made. Google it a bit and you'll see I'm not crazy.

[Moedad]

As a person who played outside in the Los Angeles Basin during the 60s and 70s, bicycled thousands and thousands of miles during the 80s and 90s, and who still goes outside once in a while, I can unequivocably say that the air quality in the LA Basin, while still unhealthy at times (especially depending on where you're at), has greatly improved.

[Easy Rider]

As for the pollution problems you have, yes, I didn't realise they were so bad, but surely, if the emission controls that are in place are having such a small benificial effect, doesn't that show that they're wrong.

Listen "friend", you almost stopped this discussion once and now I STRONGLY suggest that you do so before you piss off others besides just ME.

You just don't get it. The LA area is somewhat unique, as US-Alan tried to expain to you but apparently you weren't paying attention. The geographic features of the area TRAPS the airborne pollutants and they accumulate. Besides that, it strikes me as a pretty absurd view to, in effect, say that if you can't completely eliminate a problem then you shouldn't even try to make it better.

The plain truth of the matter is that I see most of the ideas you put forth on this subject as just plain stupid. This planet has, what, 6 billion people. If each one of them produces just a teeny, tiny bit of polution......when you mulitlply it by 6 billion, it ends up being a significant amount.

In most things, before you can walk, you must first crawl. The story you told about London is unique and can't be used as a pattern anywhere else.......although all the steel mills in the north eastern US all going out of business had about the same affect. In most places around the world, there is NOT a single solution and you MUST attack a multitude of causes, hopefully the worst ones first.

Your simplistic view of dealing with problems on a global scale would be refreshing........if it had any basis in fact. Unfortunately it doesn't.

[patrick_777]

I wanted to at least pay a little respect to Patrick's etiquette, so I moved the air pollution discussion over here.

Thank you!

:popcorn: :twisted:

[alantf]

Hey, easy,
To me you're just a "grumpy old man". You just seem to me that if anyone has a different opinion to you, you just can't stand it! Other people, especially newbies, have said that they won't come on this forum again because of your attitude. I can totally agree with their point of view. Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but you still think that you're the only one that knows anything. I've only been on this forum for a few months, but to me you're the rotten apple that spoils the barrelful. I won't say anything behind anyone's back that I won't say to their face, so I'm saying to you what EVERYONE is thinking, but won't say because of politeness, "get rid of the attitude & learn to be human", I've not heard you say ANYTHING nice to anyone. What's your problem man? You're not God, even if you think you are. Sorry, to everyone else, but this guy is getting to me big style. Everyone else can have a difference of opinion, & it still ends up amicably, but this guy is something else! What's happened in your life that you have to be so nasty? If you have a problem, spit it out, let us try to help you. That's what we're here for. Don't bottle it up. Nobody wants what you're spitting out all the time. Remember "he's my brother, he aint heavy"

[Easy Rider]

Hey, easy,
To me you're just a "grumpy old man".

You finally got something exactly right. Congratulations.

Just because you can't take honest criticism gracefully doesn't mean I will stop offering it.
You are the one who started the "discussion" and now that you are getting your ass kicked, you resort to whinning and crying. Grow up.

I quite assure you that not EVERYBODY here agrees with you.

[Moedad]

I quite assure you that not EVERYBODY here agrees with you.

Yeah. You're not THAT old.

[Easy Rider]

Yeah. You're not THAT old.

:redflip: :crackup

[alantf]

[quote="Easy Rider"]

Just because you can't take honest criticism gracefully doesn't mean I will stop offering it.
[/quote

PLEASE offer "honest criticism" and "gracefully". I would LOVE it! (so would everyone else) that's what we're all here for. You've finally got the message. That's the spirit of this forum! "welcome to the fold brother"

[music man]

I quite assure you that not EVERYBODY here agrees with you.

Yeah. You're not THAT old.

And not really all THAT grumpy :whistle: .

[alanmcorcoran]

Yeah. You're not THAT old.

Okay, I wasn't LOL'ing exactly, but I was SWR (smiling while reading.) Good one Moe!

[patrick_777]

To alantf: Why are you lumping EVERYBODY in with your opinions? You obviously haven't polled EVERYBODY here, so you're making broad generalizations and speaking for EVERYBODY without the slightest evidence to support your conclusions. If you want to speak for yourself, do it...it's even encouraged. If you are seriously trying to speak for EVERYBODY - you really aren't qualified or elected for that and should very seriously consider it first - then shut the fuck up.

[alantf]

o.k. patrick, I apologise if I've upset anyone, but I sure have read newbies saying that they won't come back because of him. Does anyone know him personally, & can think of any reason for him being so abrasive. It's not just joshing - his attitude is spoiling it for me, & I'm not so arrogant as to think that I'm the only one. If the guy's got a problem, I'd like to be the first to try & help him. I dunno, it just seems as though something bad has happened, & turned him this way. I love this site, but if he keeps going on the way he's doing now, I'm afraid that I'll be going the same way - out of here- o.k. I can see that your next comment might be "o.k. so go" but surely that's not what you/we want on this site. Like I said before, "he's my brother" YES I do care what's happened to him!

[alanmcorcoran]

Hey alan, At the risk of drawing MORE flak, I shall foolishly wade in here:

1) Easy is going to be Easy, because that suits him. He's by far the most prolific poster, most of what he has to say (re the GZ anyway) is factually accurate, and I, for one am willing to let the curmudgeonry slide.
2) You can basically ignore him and anyone else on here that rubs you the wrong way.
3) It's just text on a web page, any hurt feelings are likely to be self-induced.

I kind of like the "big tent", and I hope I haven't driven off anyone because of my own moronic drivel (which can also be freely ignored!) I think it's best to keep in mind that semi-anonymous postings can quickly escalate into full on flame wars just because of the nature of the media and the type of people that feel compelled to post. One of the reasons I use my full real name rather than a handle is to try to remind myself to be honest and somewhat civil (even if it doesn't always work out that way.) I agree with you that we should not be driving people away, but I think one's skin has to be a little thicker than normal to enjoy Internet forums. Just the nature of the beast.

Post on, I enjoy your perspective from the island, even if I don't always agree with it.

[music man]

I think one big problem is, that even though people find it easier to throw out hurtful and derogatory comments at anonymous people on the other end of their computers, when someone says something hurtful back, they realize that it hurts their feelings and/or pisses them off just like it does in real life, they just don't slow down to realize thats how the person on the other end feels too, in their eyes the only one that did anything wrong is the other person because of that fact.

[music man]

1) Easy is going to be Easy, because that suits him. He's by far the most prolific poster, most of what he has to say (re the GZ anyway) is factually accurate, and I, for one am willing to let the curmudgeonry slide.
2) You can basically ignore him and anyone else on here that rubs you the wrong way.


Ditto....

[Easy Rider]

Like I said before, "he's my brother" YES I do care what's happened to him!

What has happened is: "I don't suffer fools lightly".

HOWEVER........an apology of sorts IS in order.

I never intended to participate in the "Hot Topics....." forum at all......because I know where it will end up.
In the future I will try to pay a little closer attention and not do that again.

As for newbies, the first blatantly stupid post is a feebie. If they continue and/or try to defend their stupidity, then they get what they deserve.

We've had a lot of new riders on here lately. None have stormed in like a drunken sailor so I have been nice. Guess some folks hold a grudge and only remember what they want to.
Bye.

[patrick_777]

I never intended to participate in the "Hot Topics....." forum at all......

But I created this forum for this type of thing! As I've said before, as long as it doesn't bleed over, it's all Kool & the Gang.
:rawk:

o.k. patrick, I apologise if I've upset anyone

No apologies are necessary in this forum.

I love this site, but if he keeps going on the way he's doing now, I'm afraid that I'll be going the same way - out of here- o.k. I can see that your next comment might be "o.k. so go" but surely that's not what you/we want on this site. Like I said before, "he's my brother" YES I do care what's happened to him!

As an Admin here, it's going to be hard for me to post in this forum without having the "power of the office" following me, but if I'm posting in here, it's best to assume I'm not talking as an "admin", but more as a "normal user".

[Easy Rider]

But I created this forum for this type of thing! As I've said before, as long as it doesn't bleed over, it's all Kool & the Gang.


Yes, I know. But it WILL bleed over. Human nature says it has to.
Someone's expressed concern for my general well being is ample proof of that.

[adrianinflorida]

I'm gonna have to put my foot down, and take a stand, pick a side. I totally agree with Alan on the pollution issue, 100% unequivicaly.

:)

[Moedad]

...more as a "normal user".

We have those?? :??:

[alanmcorcoran]

I totally agree with Alan on the pollution issue, 100% unequivicaly.

Holy shit!.... or did you mean the Alan in Tenerife??

Oh... now I get it

[patrick_777]

Someone's expressed concern for my general well being is ample proof of that.

And that is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I will warm up the Ban Hammer.

[Easy Rider]

I totally agree with Alan on the pollution issue, 100% unequivicaly.

Holy shit!.... or did you mean the Alan in Tenerife??

Oh... now I get it

Whooooosh !!! :crackup

[alanmcorcoran]

It was before I had my coffee. Seriously. Also, not used to seeing my name in print.

[adrianinflorida]

I totally agree with Alan on the pollution issue, 100% unequivicaly.

Holy shit!.... or did you mean the Alan in Tenerife??

Oh... now I get it

Whooooosh !!! :crackup
:lol: