Stalling on Gear Down

[Canuck]

Hey Guys,

Back with another "Kerfuffle" on the GZ...

Ive been out riding around and have noticed when i gear down at a stop light, stop sign etc the Gz seems to lose its Idle and stalls while i clutch in .

I know my sweet spot and am just wondering if this could be a result of the Valve Clearance? It has been around 10,000 kms since it was last done.

A new plug has been installed however i don't remember applying Oil to the stem of the plug as the manual says to do.. O_o
whoops..

Though i don't think this is a problem im just curious if anyone has had this exact problem and I am wondering what you did to fix it.

I haven't had a real solid Idle for a long time now. but it seems to have gotten worse lately..
9 times out of 10 ill clutch in...gear down and POOF.. shuts down and i have to restart while holding up traffic behind. Gets pretty irritating

ALSO i made sure to check the idle jet adjustment at 2.5 turns to the left and its where it should be.
94 octane with a bit of Sea Foam

could it be the main adjustment for the clutch is to tight and maybe I am inadvertently going way past the sweet spot and causing it to "flood"
I'm not to sure if it is Flooding or what flooding entails but it sounds like a viable option for this problem...

Anyone?

[alanmcorcoran]

Hey Canuck, read my thread on "Stalling during first fifteen minutes." Your symptoms are nearly identical to mine, but I don't know if the cuase is the same. Possible culprits include:

1) Carb
2) Emissions (if you have them)
3) Valves
4) Air Filter

I over filled mine with oil shortly before my problems worsened. Not sure if this is related or not.

I think your basic problem is the engine is not running smoothly enough and when it drops to idle it quits. Does it get better after th engine is warmed up? You can cover the problem up by boosting the idle, but I don't think you will like the high idle (and it will kill your gas mileage.) It may also make the problem get worse over time. I fixed mine by taking it to a dealer (three) times and just insisting they fix it. I'm not sure what ultimately fixed it, but it did get fixed.

For the record, my plug was fine, and my air filter was in pretty good shape. I'm not confident enough to look at the carb or valves, and I don't even know where the emissions stuff is. I had only about 3000 miles on the bike when I took it in to get this problem looked at.

[Canuck]

funny Alan i ended up overfilling mine to..

opened the oil filter box once and let some out. put it back on ran the bike and opened it again and i was back to the top again

same issues..

[alanmcorcoran]

Maybe some of the other guys can speculate what the likely side effects of overfilling are. I think Easy or Patrick mentioned a few at one point, buti don't remember what they were specificallly. I can tell you there was no oil on my plug, in fact, te plug was pretty clean (and properly gapped) when I pulled it.

Othere theories included overfilling my gas tank (didn't even know this was possible, never mind bad) and crap in the gas tank. Because a lot of my difficulties settled down after the bike was warmed up, logic tells me the problem was in the carburetor. I figure if it was air filter, or valves, or gas tank, or even emissions, well, it would probably persist after the engine warmed up.

[Easy Rider]

Though i don't think this is a problem im just curious if anyone has had this exact problem and I am wondering what you did to fix it.

94 octane with a bit of Sea Foam

could it be the main adjustment for the clutch is to tight and maybe I am inadvertently going way past the sweet spot and causing it to "flood"

I'm not to sure if it is Flooding or what flooding entails but it sounds like a viable option for this problem...



Have you been reading the other threads on here lately? If not, why not?
There are at least 2 of them regarding stalling and rough idle. I just posted an update to one of them a few hours ago.

Is 94 octane = regular in Canada? If not, switch. Seafoam is NOT necessary in every tank and if you are not actually measuring, "a bit" might be too much.

Your terminology regarding the clutch makes no sense. The clutch has nothing to do with flooding. The clutch cable should have a little slack; if there is too much slack, it might be dragging. What is a "sweet spot" ?

You do know there is an adjustment for idle speed, right?

[Easy Rider]

funny Alan i ended up overfilling mine to..

opened the oil filter box once and let some out. put it back on ran the bike and opened it again and i was back to the top again


Back to the top of WHAT ??

Based on your (lack of) understanding about how an engine works, I think you need to take it to the shop........soon. :roll:

[Canuck]

The "Sweet Spot" was something my motorcycle instructors taught us.

"Pinching the dragon and putting it to sleep".

Pinching the dragon meant the sweet spot where you pull in the clutch and shift gears to allow smooth transmission..

Putting to sleep meant when you pull in the clutch handle and the bike is running but without throttle or engine control.

Sorry if my terms are off, tried my best to explain my problem as i saw it.

[Water Warrior 2]

funny Alan i ended up overfilling mine to..

opened the oil filter box once and let some out. put it back on ran the bike and opened it again and i was back to the top again

same issues..

Do you mean the plate that holds the oil filter in it's own little housing on the right side of the engine ?? There will always be oil in there if things are working properly. Pull the engine oil drain plug and drain a bunch out into a clean pan. Top up as needed to bring the level up to full mark with the bike in a verticle position(not leaned over on the stand). Start using regular 87 octane gas and see how it runs. And don't put any additives in the gas tank. Should be better if all else is okay. Now, about that valve adjustment, give it some serious thought.

[alantf]

And don't put any additives in the gas tank.

Sorry to disagree, but when I put fuel additive in the tank (at 10,000 km) I noticed a difference straight away - much smoother, particularly at low revs. The bottle says to use it every 4000 km,which I shall definitely do. The bottle holds 365 ml, & from the instructions, I worked out that I needed 75 ml to a tankful of petrol.

[Easy Rider]

Putting to sleep meant when you pull in the clutch handle and the bike is running but without throttle or engine control.


Interesting instructor you had there!

I think you misunderstood something.

When shifting, one doesn't look for a "sweet spot" with the clutch; you pull it in ALL THE WAY. After the shift is done, you let it out.......all the way; smoothly, not abrupt but not worrying about any "sweet spots" either.

The "sweet spot" occurs at a standing start. It is the spot where the clutch just starts to engage. You need to be able to sense that spot and control it for a smooth start.
Unless you are doing something really strange, it really has no impact on subsequent shifting.

[Easy Rider]

And don't put any additives in the gas tank.

Sorry to disagree, ....... The bottle says to use it every 4000 km,which I shall definitely do.

The initial change you saw is likely:
1) Because it cleaned the carb. and the effect will remain without the additive
or
2) A combination of the gas you are using and the additive.

Every 4000 km is a LONG way from "with each fillup". :biggrin:

The main objective of the maker of Seafoam is: Sell more Seafoam.

Do whatever makes you happy. It certainly won't hurt anything, as long as you stay at or below the recommended dose.

P.S. Do NOT put Seafoam (or any other additive) in your oil. It will ruin your clutch. That is not open to disagreement. :shocked:

[Canuck]

How can seafoam added to the crankcase be harmful ?

[Easy Rider]

How can seafoam added to the crankcase be harmful ?

It's the wet clutch. The clutch plates are designed to be run in regular old OIL. Things like Seaform have solvents in them that are not present in regular oil.......or "super slick" things like moly. The solvents can attack the clutch plates and cause them to swell or disentigrate. The friction additives can cause the plates to glaze and slip.

Do I "know" that Seafoam will harm your clutch.........no. Would I take that chance when there is no real indication that anything would be gained by doing it .......NO. The risk is just WAY too high.

On a bike with a wet clutch, you should NEVER put anything in the crankcase but OIL.......and not even oil that is rated "energy conserving" because it has that extra slippery stuff that makes the clutch slip.

[Joho]

Easy is correct. It's a *general rule among motorcyclists that you don't put any additives into the oil (especially on such a small engine as the GZ!)

Also, to Canuck, I'm worried that your "sweet spot" technique is putting premature wear on the clutch... Like Easy said, you REALLY have to pull it all the way in when shifting gears. If you're only going halfway or so, then you are essentially slipping the clutch all the time. However, I might have understood your explanation incorrectly. Regardless, make sure that you are pulling completely engaging the clutch whenever you switch gears.

Also, to the OP's O-problem (hehe), you may want to start with increasing your idle speed adjustment.

[Canuck]

My last thought is this... I've had problems before with my Starter Plunger Cable..
There is a small tear around the protective plastic membrane surrounding the cable, not sure if a tear would screw the whole mechanism up rather then just create some access for water to get in therefore making me have to lube the cable more often??

When i use the choke to start the bike (Full Choke)...it takes only 15-20 seconds for the GZ to start to sound fast and angry.. when that happens.. I lower the choke setting and it begins to settle then gets Angry in no time... when i have the enricher circuit shut off I still feel like its not closed enough because no matter how i have the idle setting adjusted it always seems to rev too high when i gear down and when i finally reach 1st gear on gear down it sounds like its choking and then ... it dies.... so i start up again and it levels out.. along with adjusting the idle to prevent this angry revving.

I'm sure that this starter plunger is screwing the mixture up... So what would cause this to happen?

is the spring inside toast? have i installed the plunger incorrectly...

As far as i see you screw the thing in and that's it.. but I think I'm missing something.. what it is i don't know.

I'm gonna go take a few pics of these problems mentioned to see if we can figure it out.

Pics coming soon**

[music man]

Easy is correct. It's a *general rule among motorcyclists that you don't put any additives into the oil (especially on such a small engine as the GZ!)



You can put additives in a small engine, its just you can't put additives in any engine with a wet clutch system in it.

[Easy Rider]

I'm sure that this starter plunger is screwing the mixture up... So what would cause this to happen?


Here we go with "I'm sure....." again !! :poke2:

Gotta head for work right now but the only thing **I** am sure of is that you seem to be in WAY over your head and you really need to take the bike to a shop and have them look at it.

It is impossible to diagnose a problem by remote control......especially when there seems to be a little something lost in the "translation".

I think you have a serious carb problem; it may or may not have anything to do with the enricher circuit.

[Water Warrior 2]

no matter how i have the idle setting adjusted it always seems to rev too high when i gear down and when i finally reach 1st gear on gear down it sounds like its choking and then ... it dies.... so i start up again and it levels out.. along with adjusting the idle to prevent this angry revving.



Pics coming soon**[/quote]

If I am reading this correctly the RPM picks up when you gear down. That would be normal and the RPM would go down as your speed reduces. Then you gear down again and the RPM goes up again until your speed reduces. Am I understanding your statement correctly ? As for the choking and shut off I have no idea yet.

[Canuck]

Im stumped myself.

Its going in for valve adjustments tomorrow and i hope thats the end of it..

Getting to the point of wanting to drive it off a cliff...(....Just kidding)

[Easy Rider]

Its going in for valve adjustments tomorrow and i hope thats the end of it..


Don't let this opportunity pass you by.

If you ONLY tell them that you want the valves adjusted, that's all you will get.
PLEASE tell them your problem and demonstrate it if necessary and then tell them you want it FIXED. Please. :cool:

[Canuck]

I remember reading about someone (maybe Patrick) replacing the rubber cush drive that is inside the hub of the rear tire and getting great results in how the bikes shifts etc..

When i had my rear tire replaced a couple weeks ago, i looked at it and it was definetely worn and had spots that had been slightly gouged which seemed to reshape the grooves..

So while im at the Shop today im going to get them to order one in. Can't hurt at all.

On top of all the other things, we'll see how it goes. Ill post after its all said and done.

As Easy said I think I'm in over my head..

The Bike has taken me so far since its last Valve Adjustment, its been running all winter long. Lots of -5 to -10 degree weather start ups...sometimes 3-4 a day depending on what I am doing that day. I dont know if this has any effect other then normal wear and tear. But since all of these startups were not sounding the way it should perhaps I've let the problem fester to far.
Thanks to everyone for their help, Easy Patrick Alan Water Warrior extra thanks*

Ill update my findings later today.

[Sarris]

I put a new one in mine at 9k (??) service and plan to do it every other rear tire change. It's cheap & easy.

The new found smoothness in gear & clutch engagement is amazing.

:)

[Easy Rider]

So while im at the Shop today im going to get them to order one in. Can't hurt at all.


Yes definitely recommended. It should take some of the jerk out of shifts and throttle changes. This is especially important if you have changed the front sprocket to one without the built-in rubber cushion ring.

[Canuck]

Well It's a great day.

The Valve Adjustments proved successful in curing almost all of my problems.. Im ordering in a new rubber cushion for the rear wheel and I think that's it for my concerns in terms of its low speed range problems and most of the others.

Thanks alot for all your guys' help

Just to clarify the mechanic said the Exhaust Valves were out for sure but the Intakes werent too bad.

So he says.

All I know is its smooth idling, no jerky stalls or gear shifts and also smoother shifting.

[alanmcorcoran]

I guess that is one more point for Valve Adjustments in the Valves vs. Carb debate. I'm going to call Mike at Mission.

UPDATE: I talked to the service guy that worked on my bike and the conversation was not conclusive. He confirmed that they did re-adjust my valves a little, and, although the carburetor looked clean, he thinks it had ingested something else and that was what was probably causing the problems. He also said valve problems mimic carb problems so it's not always easy to tell which is causing running problems, especially if you service both. So, I guess none of this really helps.

We discussed the emissions canister briefly, and he said it sometimes "chokes up" the bike, but it didn't sound like he thought that was the main problem in my case. Plus, you guys probably don't have one unless your bike came from here.

[adrianinflorida]

We discussed the emissions canister briefly, and he said it sometimes "chokes up" the bike, but it didn't sound like he thought that was the main problem in my case. Plus, you guys probably don't have one unless your bike came from here.I bet we could make a killing selling charcoal cannisters at a premium to bikers in non-california markets that are enviro-concious and want to ride 'Greener' ;)