White LEDs for Neutral and Turn Signal indicator lights

[5th_bike]

Getting fed up with both indicator lights having burnt out twice in less than 4,000 miles, I decided to use white LEDs for the turn signal and neutral indicator lights. Modern white LEDs have a good enough light output to replace the filamented light bulbs that are still used for the indicator lights. So far I have constructed the turn signal indicator light using the base of an old light bulb, and building two LEDs onto it, with some epoxy resin. The procedure is below.

Materials:
- Two white LEDs, I took them out of two Dollar store "reading lights"
- One old burnt out indicator light bulb
- One 1 k? (1,000 ohms) resistor, 1/4 watt, Radio Shack (1/2 W is too big)
- Plastic (epoxy resin)

Equipment
- Plyers
- Knife
- Soldering iron

Procedure:
- Put the light bulb in a paper towel and crack its top part with the plyers, do not crack the base.
- Cut the two wires just underneath the little glass ball
- Keep the base with the two wires sticking up, discard the rest.

- Determine each LED's negative side, indicated by the flat spot in the ring at its base.
- Cut the negative legs to approx. 10 mm.
- Put the LEDs side by side at their flat spots, and connect each negative leg to the other LED's positive leg at about 3-4 mm below the base of each LED. Do NOT have the negative legs touch another, move one to the side, and the other can go underneath.
- Cut the resistor's legs to about 8-10mm and 20mm, solder the short end to one of the LED's positive legs, right where the negative leg connects. Cut that positive leg right underneath where the resistor connects.
- Now there are two wires, one LED's positive leg, and the long end of the resistor. Position these such that they point down (away from where the LEDs shine to) at a distance about equal to the distance between the old light bulb's base wires.

- Scrape the base's two wires clean with a knife, and prime them with the soldering iron and some solder - they tend to not to want to take solder initially, and need some persuasion.

- Cut the assembly's two wires to length, and solder them to the base's wires. The size of the 'new' bulb should not exceed the size of the old light bulb, the assembly may need a little twisting/compression.

- Test with a 9V battery, depending on the polarity of the battery one LED at a time should be 'on'.

- Mix up some plastic (epoxy resin) and fill the space between the base and the LEDs. Hold it by the base, and twist and turn it to keep the plastic blob in the middle as it hardens (approx. 15 minutes).

- Harden overnight, and insert in motorcycle.

A turn signal indicator light needs two LEDs because depending on which turn signal is used, current goes through it in one direction or the other. The next light, the Neutral indicator, will only have one LED in series with the 1k? resistor, and if it doesn't work I will just put it in the other way.

Put the LED that is 'on' when the left turn signal is used, at the left side underneath the green lens, ditto for the one on the right, and you will have a 'directional' turn signal indicator light, like I do now :)

(edit:) The image below shows the principle of the two LEDs in opposing directions, with the current going in one direction:

http://www.postimage.org/gx28IyGS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx28IyGS)

[phoenix]

question. dont now much about led's but everything i have read in mags says that you need a um.. um... load balancer or somethinglike that. will you need one for something as small as that?
and thats some good info to know.

[5th_bike]

question. dont now much about led's but everything i have read in mags says that you need a um.. um... load balancer or somethinglike that. will you need one for something as small as that?
and thats some good info to know.
Yes, the resistor is the "load balancer" if you would subject the LEDs to 12V without a resistor, they would blow up. The resistor limits the current to about 10 mA, and LEDs typically can have 20-30 mA, thus.
Edit: Sorry, wrong answer, I had no idea what a "load balancer" is, see below for an explanation by Easy Rider. A load balancer is not needed for the indicator lights.

[phoenix]

cool thx, sounds like ya know yours stuff.

[patrick_777]

Awesome write-up. How 'bout some pics?

[phoenix]

could you do the same thing with other light on your bike but use some brighter led's and maybe colored ones? or is there a lot more to it on break and other ones?

[5th_bike]

Patrick, give me some time please, I'll edit some more and insert some pictures, couple weeks.

Phoenix, there are posts about people mounting LED rear lights and brake lights, search for "LED", this thread is for the two indicator lights.

[patrick_777]

This thread = Sticky.

Phoenix, the brake lights and turn signal LEDs have to have a modulator/resistor installed inline for them to work correctly, but they are not that hard to install. Like 5th said, there are threads here all about them. I'm too lazy right now to search them out though.

[alanmcorcoran]

I was thinking this was a lot of work to save a few bucks until I got to the part where you said you now have "Directional" turn signals. Did you actually put one of the blinker LEDs under the left (green circles[?]) or just on the left side of the right green circle? I have a quick, right, left, right to get on my street and I like being able to quickly tell what side the blinkers are blinking on.

[Easy Rider]

Yes, the resistor is the "load balancer" if you would subject the LEDs to 12V without a resistor, they would blow up.

Two different things. The resistor in series is a current limiting resistor.

What he is referring to applies when you replace your actual turn signals (front and/or back) with LEDs. The flasher unit is current dependent and won't flash right.....unless you get the current back up or get a different kind of flasher. The load balancers are LARGE wattage resistory in parallel with the new LED bulbs. Kind of makes the whole change pointless, IMHO.

Changing only the indicatory lights on the dash does not create that kind of problem.

[5th_bike]

Alan: the two LEDs are right next to each other underneath the right green lens. I put a little vertical wall of cardbord (will be plastic shortly) in between them, such that they light the left or right half of the turn signal indicator lens, depending on the active turn signal.

Easy: wow, I didn't know about those 'load balancers' that doesn't save any power indeed, I would replace that kind of turn signal relay/circuitry with a 555 circuit... thanks for clearing that up.

[patrick_777]

Easy: wow, I didn't know about those 'load balancers' that doesn't save any power indeed, I would replace that kind of turn signal relay/circuitry with a 555 circuit... thanks for clearing that up.

He's good for something around here at least... :redflip:

And that is an awesome idea on the turn signal indicator.

[alanmcorcoran]

One of the many side effects of switching between Suzi and the beast, besides the feeling I should be wearing a red rubber nose and big floppy shoes, is I have backslid on the damn turn signal. I rode about a quarter mile today before I noticed I left the damn thing on and one of these times it's going to cause me some trouble. The Strat has the auto-cancel. One of you clever types ought to figure out how to add THAT to the GZ.

[Sarris]

Yeah Alan, I do the same thing. Harley not only has self cancelling, but there is a turnsignal switch on each grip.

Also, the Kisan Signalminder will shut off the signals after a pre-set time. I'm not sure the GeeZer has ebough juice to push it, but I had one on my Intruder Chopper and It works fine in 90% of turn situations. Being timer based, sometimes it wouuld shut off too soon, but otherwise AOK.

Turn Signal Canceller (http://www.kisantech.com/index.php?cat_id=4)


:)

[Easy Rider]

One of you clever types ought to figure out how to add THAT to the GZ.

Failing that, the LED solution presently under discussion can be modified slightly for MUCH better operation. Just attach some longer wires and mount the LED's up on the bars or shield supports where you can actually SEE them.

I still have my "buzzers" but that really isn't a good soultion.

[Easy Rider]

Turn Signal Canceller (http://www.kisantech.com/index.php?cat_id=4)
:)

All I get there is a bunch of "Go Daddy" ads. Looks like it is down for the count. :cry:

[mrlmd1]

Turn Signal Canceller (http://www.kisantech.com/index.php?cat_id=4)
:)

All I get there is a bunch of "Go Daddy" ads. Looks like it is down for the count. :cry:

The link works fine for me. That sucker costs $109.95. Easier to remember to turn it off by yourself.

[adrianinflorida]

Turn Signal Canceller (http://www.kisantech.com/index.php?cat_id=4)
:)

All I get there is a bunch of "Go Daddy" ads. Looks like it is down for the count. :cry:

The link works fine for me. That sucker costs $109.95. Easier to remember to turn it off by yourself.Hell, I'll use hand signals before I pay that much to have something shut my turn signals off for me. :)

[alantf]

I also get Go Daddy ads. Must be a problem with that site.

[mrlmd1]

Now I get those ads too. :??: :??: :cry:

[5th_bike]

And here is the video:
[youtube:h4u4vid1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5DoYWL0tA[/youtube:h4u4vid1]
or click this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5DoYWL0tA

[mr. softie]

That is neat to know which side is blinking. For me though turning the signals off or not is a good measure of how attentive I am being with my riding. Leaving them on is like a slap upside the head... pay attention fool!

[alanmcorcoran]

I like your tach. Was it hard to install? I found I use mine (on the Strat) as a proxy for knowing what gear I'm in (so I don't try to shift to non-existent "sixth gear") Sometimes, with the earplugs and the wind, I can't always tell by the engine sound.

[Easy Rider]

And here is the video:


[Thread-jack time!]
My current obsession is idle speed.
I have a vague feeling that we have covered this before; please forgive my old brain if that is true.

Your tach seems to be indicating about 1600......but it sounds like your idle speed is WAY lower than that.....maybe around 800. Is your tach maybe reading 2X the actual speed.......or maybe I need to re-tune my ears ??

I guess I'm gonna have to visit my dealer for some readings.

[music man]

[quote="5th_bike":34u8xak6]And here is the video:


[Thread-jack time!]
My current obsession is idle speed.
I have a vague feeling that we have covered this before; please forgive my old brain if that is true.

Your tach seems to be indicating about 1600......but it sounds like your idle speed is WAY lower than that.....maybe around 800. Is your tach maybe reading 2X the actual speed.......or maybe I need to re-tune my ears ??

I guess I'm gonna have to visit my dealer for some readings.[/quote:34u8xak6]

No I think you are right Easy, I don't think there is any way his bike is idling at 1,600 rpms in that video, I have been wrong before, but I think you are correct on this one.

[5th_bike]

Alan, it is very easy mount that tach, at the bolt that holds the signal stem. No solder, plastic mixing, wire cutting etc. See at "How to... mount a tachometer" thread for supplier and instructions. BTW re: your earlier "hours of effort" remark, I wasn't looking forward to replacing that little light bulb every 1,500 miles, and I hope these LEDs never need replacing, so that's a lot of time saved ! Eventually.

Others: it idled at about 1,400 rpm (realize you're looking at an angle and the needle was actually below the 1,500 rpm line on the dial), and the tach works fine (i.e. it indicates about 5,100 rpm at 50 mph in 5th gear). The bike was nice and hot after a more than 40 miles ride when I shot the video.

[Easy Rider]

Others: it idled at about 1,400 rpm (realize you're looking at an angle and the needle was actually below the 1,500 rpm line on the dial), and the tach works fine (i.e. it indicates about 5,100 rpm at 50 mph in 5th gear). The bike was nice and hot after a more than 40 miles ride when I shot the video.

OK, just one more comment for clarification and then the matter will drop.

It sounds like you are not idling smoothly. I think I even hear a few stumbles and can distinguish every power stroke. If that is true, something is amiss.

If the tach is reading correctly and it is making that much noise when it runs at 1400 rpm, I would be concerned. Then again, not having a tach, I have no good frame of reference.

Maybe the audio is just bad. Hope so.

[5th_bike]

[It sounds like you are not idling smoothly. I think I even hear a few stumbles and can distinguish every power stroke. If that is true, something is amiss.

If the tach is reading correctly and it is making that much noise when it runs at 1400 rpm, I would be concerned. Then again, not having a tach, I have no good frame of reference.

Maybe the audio is just bad. Hope so.
Hm, now you have me worried. Maybe the two years of doing nothing before I got it, took their toll and there is something clogged. Yet, it seems to runs fine and not skip a beat when riding. I may post at the "troubleshooting" forum if the idle stumbles continue.

I checked at Youtube for more idling videos. Jexy's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIJwEhgVB3Y
his idles a tad bit slower - at 1,300 rpm I presume. A slight stumble in the beginning.

Warlock's runs a little irregular.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMx8r2JB ... re=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMx8r2JBxFY&feature=channel)

This one, "sepu29", also idles with stumbles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_wf9wru ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_wf9wruLhw&feature=related)

Maybe I shouldn't worry.

[Easy Rider]

Maybe I shouldn't worry.

Maybe not; probably not.
Maybe worry is the wrong word.

Maybe that is "normal" for 100% stock. Maybe that's why the previous owner took the cap off of the idle mixture screw on mine.

Maybe I should shut up about it until I get mine fixed and put a meter on it. :roll:

[5th_bike]

Ooh, I realize now that when it makes 1,400 rpm, it fires only 700 times per minute (two revolutions per ignition, it's a "4-stroke" after all...) therefore there are 11 to 12 'explosions' per second, that sounds about right. You only hear 700 beats yet it does run 1,400 rpm.

[Easy Rider]

Ooh, I realize now that when it makes 1,400 rpm, it fires only 700 times per minute (two revolutions per ignition, it's a "4-stroke" after all...) therefore there are 11 to 12 'explosions' per second, that sounds about right. You only hear 700 beats yet it does run 1,400 rpm.

That is true but consider this: I "think" I remember that this is a "double fire" arrangement, in that the spark plug actually fires every revolution (yes, at the top of the exhaust stroke too) because it is simpler to design that way and the extra spark is just wasted.

If that is true and the tach is set wrong, it would be counting each spark as a rev. and indicating TWICE the actual RPM.

I'm not necessarily saying that yours is doing that, since the rpm/gear/speed readings seem to come out right when going down the road; just something to keep in mind for future discussions !! :tup:

(And I won't mention how idling too slow is somewhat like lugging the engine.....until I'm able to get some readings on mine !!)

[5th_bike]

Wel if it sparks every revolution but only explodes every other revolution, and it counts a spark as one revolution, then it will indicate the right rpm. What I meant to say was "you only HEAR half the rpms".
This tach is constructed for Harleys, and I know that they spark every revolution. I think they actually spark only once every rev for both cylinders, such that the front cylinder gets its spark early (it does most of the work) and the rear cylinder gets its spark late (so it won't run hot).

[Easy Rider]

Wel if it sparks every revolution but only explodes every other revolution, and it counts a spark as one revolution, then it will indicate the right rpm.

That's true. I said "if the tach isn't set right". Some have switches to change from "spark only on power stroke" (single fire) to "spark every revolution" (double fire). If the tach is set for single fire on a double fire machine, it will read 2X the real RPM.