Found Oil on the Engine - Need Advice [Archive]

rexolio

03-10-2009, 11:30 AM

I'm not a mechanic, especially when it comes to motorcycles. My GZ is my first and I haven't had it a year yet. I can change the oil and do things if told how, but that's about it.

I noticed yesterday that on the left side of the engine, there's oil. Obviously this is no where near where you ad oil, so it has to be coming from someplace it should not. I'm hoping someone can tell me what it is or advise me as to what I need to check. I've attached 2 photos.

Thanks in advance, bros!

adrianinflorida

03-10-2009, 11:48 AM

It's seems to be either the "Manufacturing Oil" one of the guys mentioned started to leech out onto the cooling fins on his bike. If it's a legitimate leak, it looks like it might be coming from the exhaust header area, and blowing back along the fins (Front to back).

Easy Rider

03-10-2009, 12:03 PM

It's seems to be either the "Manufacturing Oil" one of the guys mentioned started to leech out onto the cooling fins on his bike.

That would probably be ME.....and a couple of other guys too. :cool:

Don't panic! First clean it off and see if it comes back.

If it is the assembly lube that is cooked on, it might be hard to remove. I finally took some oven cleaner on a Q-tip to get mine off.....and then rinsed thoroughly.

What year bike and how many miles ??

rexolio

03-10-2009, 12:06 PM

Thanks guys!

The bike is a 2006 with about 5200 miles on it (haven't paid attention lately - that's a ballpark).

I'll try some over cleaner to get it off and then see if / how soon it comes back.

Easy Rider

03-10-2009, 12:09 PM

I'll try some over cleaner to get it off and then see if / how soon it comes back.

It probably won't. That looks pretty much like mine did.......also an '06 with about the same mileage. I noticed it on a trip.......to Georgia !! :biggrin:

rexolio

03-10-2009, 12:10 PM

Uh oh! So it may not be anything to worry about?

Easy Rider

03-10-2009, 12:16 PM

Uh oh! So it may not be anything to worry about?

Guilty.......of assuming too much and not explaining properly. :cry:

Assembly lube is a protectant that they put on parts to keep them from corroding while they sit in a warehouse or on the bike before it is sold. They clean most of it off when the bike is put together but it is transparent and they often miss some.

It becomes brown and somewhat crusty when "cooked" by the heat of the engine over time.

So, yes, it probably is NOT anything to worry about. I had two shops look at it before I believed them but once cleaned off, it has not returned. :cool:

Sarris

03-10-2009, 12:40 PM

Got it off mine with a stiff brush and bumper sticker remover. Then a wash. It never came back.

:)

rexolio

03-10-2009, 01:00 PM

Great. Thanks guys... I'll do my best to get it cleaned off and then watch it!

Now I've got to get my battery charged or replace it. Tough times, so not thrilled about replacing it, but I roll started it yesterday, drove it around for 20 minutes, let it idle for another 5 and still had no power. For whatever reason, I keep forgetting to turn the stupid key off! See, I'm such a newbie!

Easy Rider

03-10-2009, 01:34 PM

For whatever reason, I keep forgetting to turn the stupid key off!

MOST people solve that "problem" by turning the BIKE off with the ignition switch !!! :roll:

Worth a try at recharge. Take it out, take to a battery shop for an overnight slow charge, couple of hours rest and then a load test.....OR ......get a charger and do it yourself. Know anybody who has one ?? The starter motor provides a good load test.

The bad news IS......if you have run it down more than once, it might be done for.
Good luck!

music man

03-10-2009, 01:44 PM

I just developed this same substance on my bike about a month or so ago, with the exception you have a little more of it on your engine fins, I would swear you took a picture of my engine, I haven't cleaned it completely off, but since I got most of it off, I haven't seen any new spots of it on there, so I am going to keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

rexolio

03-10-2009, 02:10 PM

Thanks, Music Man. Feeling better already!

Easy Rider... yeah, I deserve the eye roll bit! And I've done it 3 times, so you're probably right - it's most likely done for. Still going to charge it overnight and see.

And I'll start using the key to turn it off.

Easy Rider

03-10-2009, 03:10 PM

Easy Rider... yeah, I deserve the eye roll bit!

Gonna be in your neighborhood last 2 weeks of April......hopefully on the bike.
Maybe we can meet up somewhere nearby.
I have one other GZ contact from Kennesaw that I met last year ......but he stopped posting right after that. Hope that isn't an omen! :biggrin:

rexolio

03-10-2009, 03:27 PM

That would be awesome! Just let me know!

I think I know who you were talking about (in Kennesaw). He and I were going to meet up for lunch one day, but he stopped posting. Hope the guy's alright!

patrick_777

03-10-2009, 05:07 PM

Mine's exactly the same way.

http://www.postimage.org/aVBNIx9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVBNIx9)

mrlmd1

03-10-2009, 05:15 PM

I tried to post this way up top before but maybe it hit the wrong button and it didn't go through, so here it is again

If you use the oven spray, be real careful - don't leave it sit on too long, and make sure you wash it off well. It's basically hydrochloric acid and will eat up the aluminum. There's another post somewhere on here about this same topic, also with a video of HCL dissolving a piece of aluminum foil in quite dramatic fashion.

rexolio

03-10-2009, 10:21 PM

Thanks everybody... feeling better and better.

mrlmd1, thanks for the caution. I'll be very careful.

And yes, the battery is dead!!! Took it on a very nice, long ride (man, was a GREAT day for a ride... first time I've rode without freezing my butt off this year) and she's deader than a doorknob. New battery on the way!

alanmcorcoran

03-11-2009, 12:27 AM

You are probably right Roxolio, but, without any attempt to charge your battery (with a charger or tender), you can't rule out a problem in your charging system. A new battery is probably a good investment regardless, but be aware that a battery tender (or a charger) is also pretty cheap. There's a number of things in the charging food chain that apparently can (and have) gone poopy for others, but the battery remains the likely suspect. You may have covered this already, but the charging system on the GZ is not very robust - if you have any after market stuff (or even the wrong headlight bulb) riding the bike actually might DISCHARGE your battery. Again, not the most likely scenario, but a possibility.

(From someone that has drained the battery on both his GZ and Strat, re-charged them, and lived to tell about it [and still has both original batteries])

(Oh, and BTW, yesterday I confirmed you CAN push start the Strat [but it wasn't on a dead battery.])

Easy Rider

03-11-2009, 12:47 AM

Mine's exactly the same way.

Wow, that looks pretty nasty. Are you sure your plug isn't loose ??
I would definitely recommend a good cleaning to see if anything comes back.
Not sure that is just "assembly lube". :cry:

Easy Rider

03-11-2009, 12:52 AM

It's basically hydrochloric acid and will eat up the aluminum.

Three things you can do to minimize that, two I mentioned and one I missed.
Use a Q-tip or something similar to apply; prevents overspray.
As you mentioned, rinse good; a little soda in the water wouldn't hurt.
And the one I missed: Look for the newer, gentler oven cleaner. One that says "less fumes and safer to use" or something similar. It is formulated differently and has much less acid.......if any at all.

I used what I already had and was careful. I suspect it was the "old" stuff because it worked pretty fast.

Easy Rider

03-11-2009, 12:56 AM

You are probably right Roxolio, but, without any attempt to charge your battery (with a charger or tender), you can't rule out a problem in your charging system.

(Oh, and BTW, yesterday I confirmed you CAN push start the Strat [but it wasn't on a dead battery.])

I was going to mention that, about the charging system.....but you can't really test it until you get a good battery installed.

As for push starting the 'Liner......... :crazy: confirmed! :crackup

patrick_777

03-11-2009, 01:55 AM

Wow, that looks pretty nasty. Are you sure your plug isn't loose ??
I would definitely recommend a good cleaning to see if anything comes back.
Not sure that is just "assembly lube". :cry:

It hasn't gotten any worse in the 11 months I've owned it. From the looks of rex's, if he pulled the cylinder head covers off, it'd probably look about the same. When I get time and enough boredom, I'll try cleaning it. :tup:

That pic was previously posted in my "Change the Sparkplug" How-To thread.

adrianinflorida

04-07-2009, 02:37 PM

Not to beat a dead horse, but mine just started exhibiting EXACTLY the same appearance as Patrick's photo, right down to the heavy concentration of residue around the front left corner head bolt. The plug is and was tight, so it's not coming from there and I'm just past 12,000 miles, so I would think if it were merely assembly lube, it would have started before this. Strange thing is, it doesn't feel overly slick, like oil, it's pretty sticky, almost tacky. Gonna clean it up tonight and see if it reappears.

alantf

04-07-2009, 06:20 PM

battery, if you have run it down more than once, it might be done for.

O.k. .......... as an electrician for over 40 years (now retired) I remember being told, as an apprentice, that batteries should be run down (at least every 6 months) & then recharged, to give them their best shot. I know that I've never done much work with batteries (apart from electronic panel, back up batteries, which were never deliberately run down) & I've never let my car battery run down deliberately (but many years ago when cars had generators, not alternators they often ran down, & an overnight charge got them going again).... so why is there a problem with letting the bike batteries run down? Just as an aside, I've never had any problems letting my electric toothbrush battery, or my shaver battery, run down, & then recharging. Could it be something to do with the chemicals in the bike battery? I accept that this problem is happening - I'm just trying to get to grips with WHY!

alanmcorcoran

04-07-2009, 07:39 PM

There are lots of different kinds of batteries, each with their own chemical makeup/plate design and other issues. NiCad batteries (like your toothbrush) give the longest life when deep discharged. Not so for lead-acid batteries:

(from the Internet)

"All lead/acid batteries like to be exercised at intervals. To do this you should discharge them at a rate of 1/10th to 1/4th of their amp hour rating. For a standard 12 volt lead/acid battery you can usually find something at the NAPA Parts Store that is just right. I like truck tail light bulbs for small batteries and headlamps for larger ones. You can use just the backup filament, or the turn signal filament or both. With the headlight you can use normal or high beams.

Just wire up some clip leads from the battery to this "load". Monitor the voltage on the battery and when it tries to drop below 11 volts under load, stop. The battery is now ready to recharge. This evens out the distribution of the lead sulphate on the lead plates of the battery and the sulphuric acid strengths in the cells.

This in turn helps insure that the battery will have its full charge capacity. How much to discharge the batteries depends on the exact battery and its chemistry. Lead/acid batteries should not be over-discharged. A standard car or motorcycle "12 volt" battery should not be discharged below 10 volts.

Sarris

04-07-2009, 07:47 PM

Damn Alan. That's more battery poop than I need to know. Have you been spending a lot of time out on Google again????

:neener: :twisted: O_o :poke2:

alanmcorcoran

04-07-2009, 08:25 PM

Love me some Google.

Actually, I know a bit about batteries from many years of computer work (NiCad, NiMH and LiON) and some experience with lead acid batteries for night riding on bicycles. (Not sure what the technology is today, but, for 100 mile plus rides in the dark, in the mid to late nineties, lead acid was the only thing that would give you enough brightness and last for at least 3-4 hours.) I didn't trust myself to put my own words out there though so I looked for some science to get my back.

Plus, I have an electric toothbrush. I think they still use Nicads in those, cause they're cheap, and they like you to run them all the way down (deep discharge), cause they have a strong "memory" effect.

Easy Rider

04-08-2009, 12:33 AM

(from the Internet)

"All lead/acid batteries like to be exercised at intervals."

From where exactly did you find that?

It is not specific enough to know for sure if it is bad advice or not, but I suspect NOT because it is so open to mis-interpretation. Normal operation of the starter is likely all the discharge the battery really needs to keep it healthy.

The reason that a battery MAY fail when it is deep discharged is that it is nearing the end of it's useful life anyway and the added strain of the deep cycle sends it over the edge. This is even more likely to happen if you don't notice right away that the charge is down; sulphation occurs MUCH more rapidly when the charge is low and MUCH MUCH more rapidly in an OLD battery that is low. Most lead-acid batteries fail due to sulphation and sulphation is almost non-existent in a battery that is at it's peak charge.

alanmcorcoran

04-08-2009, 12:50 AM

http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/bat.html

Easy Rider

04-08-2009, 01:21 AM

http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/bat.html

Damn, Alan, the passage you quoted is WAY far down the article. You ARE a persistant SOB, aren't you !!! :biggrin:

How about this statement: "How much to discharge the batteries depends on the exact battery and its chemistry."

So I guess my point is: Not knowing the exact battery chemistry, most average users are probably better off not guessing at how it should be "exercised" and just let nature take it's course.

While lead-acid technology hasn't changed much in 80 or so years, it has changed some and the "exercising" this one author proposes may not be advisable anymore......if, indeed, it ever really was desirable.

mrlmd1

04-08-2009, 11:22 AM

This is another example of putting too much faith in something printed, on the internet. On the bottom of that article is a notation 08/99 so I guess that's how old that is. A lot has changed since then and I wonder where that information came from.
Deep cycle batteries can be deeply discharged and survive recharge - they are designed that way. The newer technology AGM and regular lead acid batteries don't like that at all.
If a lead acid battery is in reasonable shape they can be saved by recharging. I can tell you from personal experience with 3 brand new ones, and from researching the manufacturer's web sites for information, even an absolutely brand new AGM battery off the shelf, if put into service without completely charging first, will be shot after the first use and will never hold a full charge again. Those batteries and regular lead acid starting batteries do not tolerate deep discharge very well and do not need to be "excercised" to keep them healthy.
Ni Cads are a different chemistry, they develop a memory and should be fully charged, then totally discharged, then recharged again prior to use. If they are recharged frequently before running down, their capacity will be reduced (their memory). Not so with AGM's or regular lead acid or deep cycle batteries. They all like to be at full charge to function properly. Deep discharge of a regular lead acid or AGM will shorten it's useful life.

Easy Rider

04-08-2009, 11:38 AM

On the bottom of that article is a notation 08/99 so I guess that's how old that is. A lot has changed since then and I wonder where that information came from.

That's when the ARTICLE was created. Some of the "information" in it is MUCH older than that.......including some of the mis-information !! :roll:

Like a lot of things written by "average" people, it is built around some solid information that he actually knows and then strays off into things that he is just guessing at or specualting about or even making up to embelish the story.

Of course nobody who posts HERE would ever do that.......right ??? :shocked: :crackup

mrlmd1

04-08-2009, 11:43 AM

Right! You are SO correct. :) :2tup: :roll: :rawk: :whistle:

alanmcorcoran

04-08-2009, 03:30 PM

And some people don't read the articles carefully, and argue against things that aren't even in there, based solely on their own opinions, which are, of course, beyond reproach.

I don't really care that much about the battery debate, but to clarify, the articles' author specifically warns AGAINST deeply discharging a lead acid battery. The "exercising" mentioned/suggested is a very mild discharge (of 1 to 2 volts of 12) and the article explains the effect/benefit of it. I can't be certain to the true authorship of the article cited, but it looks to me like it was posted by a HAM radio club.

If I recall correctly (which maybe I don't) the original inquiry asked about why it is bad for motorcycle batteries to be fully discharged and not for toothbrushes to be fully discharged and that was the question I was trying to address. Somehow, this quickly (as is often the case) turns into an "I know more than you do" debate that has nothing to do with the original question (and, frankly, a point I'm more than willing to concede.)

Here is another link that talks about lead acid batteries and exercise (it's much shorter Easy!) that you can read and attack:
http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartbatt.html

Easy Rider

04-08-2009, 04:07 PM

Here is another link that talks about lead acid batteries and exercise (it's much shorter Easy!) that you can read and attack:

It's not an attack, Alan, it is called a DISCUSSION.
Having a bad day are we ???

Unless it is a quote from a recognized expert in the field under discussion, everything you find on the net should be taken with a grain of salt.

Indeed, even equally respected and recognized "experts" often disagree from time to time.......kind of like the respected and recognized experts that frequent here. :biggrin:

It is really easy to tell when I "attack"......and I don't think I've done it here yet.......at least not for a LONG time. :skull:

Easy Rider

04-08-2009, 04:17 PM

Here is another link that talks about lead acid batteries and exercise (it's much shorter Easy!) that you can read and attack:
http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartbatt.html

Good article, actually.
No need to nit-pick it because it does a good job of answering the ORIGINAL QUESTION.
Good search job, Big AL. !! :tup:

alanmcorcoran

04-08-2009, 05:13 PM

Some of the "information" in it is MUCH older than that.......including some of the mis-information !!

Like a lot of things written by "average" people, it is built around some solid information that he actually knows and then strays off into things that he is just guessing at or specualting about or even making up to embelish the story.

Whether you meant it to be funny or not, you have a tendency to dismiss everyone's point of view but your own, and often in very condescending ways. In my case, I don't make my living providing motorcyle advice and I post on the site mostly for my own entertainment, so when you go off on one of my posts, it's no big deal. My concern is that your tendency to belittle anyone that doesn't agree with you drives the more sensitive (thinner-skinned) voices off the site and, eventually, we'll be left with only your opinion. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your opinion, (in fact, I agree with some of your more irritating speechifying - like on the loud pipes for instance) but it's not constructive to call those that disagree with you names ("average") or attribute nefarious motives to them (embelishing) that you just made up.

And no, I'm not having a bad day. I just thought that you and mrmld's mutual denigration/dissection of my answer to alantf was misdirected and confusing. Neither of you cited any authority, other than your personal opinion, for refuting the author's claim of the benefits of mild exercise for lead acid batteries, and, that wasn't even the point I was trying to make. From there, you dismissed the entire article, and declared yourself to be a superior source of information, all without any facts whatsoever. Then mrlmd chimed in with refutations of things I never even said.

This is not an encouraging environment for any reasonable people that want to contribute to the site. I'm fine with differences of opinion, and I encourage you to correct me when I am wrong, but I don't see the value in endless pissing contest/dick measuring/nit picking of every post that you did not initiate.

I'm done on this one. I promise not to add any more fuel to this fire.

David Bo

04-08-2009, 06:12 PM

Well done, alanmccorcoran. Well done...

mrlmd1

04-08-2009, 06:37 PM

AC-- I never refuted anything you never even said (whatever the hell that means). Don't get paranoid. I was questioning the article you posted, not you. If anything, I reinforced what you said about NiCads. I could also agree with what you said about Easy, I've said it to him before, but we made up a while ago.
I didn't quote any articles, I referred to the knowledge I gleaned directly from the manufacturers of the batteries like Yasua and Exide. I would believe they would know more than whoever published either of the articles you posted. And again, I never said anything about you or your opinion. "Mild excersize" helps the battery live longer? Let's see some data from a manufacturer who recommends that rather than the personal opinion of whoever posted that article from the Ham Radio Club. Until that's seen, he's just posting his personal opinion also, and the fact that it's written on the internet doesn't make it true. Now relax a little, as long as your bike starts and your battery's good, nothing else here really matters.
And a battery discharge of 2 volts = dead, maybe 80% or more discharged, which at 10 volts is a DEEP discharge, whatever kind of battery it is.

Easy Rider

04-08-2009, 06:57 PM

mrlmd1

04-08-2009, 07:00 PM

Posted from another thread on here:

No problems with you speaking your mind Easy Rider, none at all. My dad use to say, "I may not like what you have to say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it!"

alantf

04-09-2009, 07:47 AM

Maybe you need to look up the definition of condescending.

Happy to help out :-

from Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary.

condescend'ing (sic), gracious to inferiors : offensively patronising.

also, see "patronise" .......... to give encouragement to ...........

Yes, I agree with Easy .... neither (a) nor (b) seem to fit.

trykemike

05-13-2009, 12:34 AM

Check the nuts on bolts that are located between the exhaust pipes at the front of the head and under the carb at the rear of the head they should have lock washers and be tight . I snugged them up on my bike after oil appeared on the right side after a 100 mile highway ride. No signs of oil since that. Do this when the engine is cold and loosen then tighten do not apply too much pressure
use a 10 mm wrench. The engine diagram will show them as part of the design.
Check the on-line manual for a picture.

.