changing tires yourself

Seems to me from regular reading of this forum that Badbob is the only one who changes his own tires on a regular basis (I could be wrong, of course). That makes me think it's something I should not do, but I'll ask anyway as I'm thinking of taking some long trips on the gz250 in some pretty isolated Michigan country.

Even if you could master the technique, what, for instance, is the biggest risk? Breaking some spokes? Bending the rim? Other risks?

Thanks,

Keith

[JWR]

Your best bet would be to do this at home a couple of times. Do you have someone to guide you thru this??

That way you will know the tools, and how the job.

I have put a new tube in the front tire. Not a big deal.
YMMV

[alanmcorcoran]

I'd imagine the front will be easier than the back. Not necessarily for the installation and de-installation of the tire/tube, but for the removal and re-installation of the wheel. I haven't done a motorcycle myself, but even on a bicycle, the back is worse than the front. With a bicycle, you can lay it down, even in the dirt, and all you'll risk is some grit on the chain. I suspect you don't want to lay a motorcycle on its side (do you?) given pesky things like oil and gas and such. Somewhere on here was a cheapo's guide to some two-piece wood blocks that assemble into a makeshift stand - maybe those would be of use to you. I'd also want to be clear on the technique for making sure the wheel is properly aligned and the chain is properly tensioned. And I'm guessing you have to deal with some sort of brake cable/caliper/housing disconnect/re-connect.

You will also need a pump, a spare tire and a tube if you truly want to be able to handle any situation.

I've given it some thought myself, as flats are VERY common on bicycles. I decided to add MC coverage on AAA as my solution. Not sure what I'll do if I'm outside cell phone converage or AAA coverage. My biggest worry is how I'll fare if the front tire blows out when I'm cruising down the 10 at 75.

[JWR]

You are over thinking this.

Just remember this: Someone built this machine.
Someone can service this machine.

Read the manual and look at the bike.
Take off a piece and put it back on.
Take off two pieces and put it back on.
Ditto for 3,4,5.




You are not building a rocket ship.

[alanmcorcoran]

True, but it was built in a factory on an assembly line, with all of the tools and parts one needs at one's fingers. I think km is talking about changing a tire by the side of the road, out in the boonies. A little forethought will greatly improve his odds of success. I think the practice run you suggest is not only a good way to learn what needs to be done, but may also lead to a decision whether it's really worth gearing up to do in the field.

[Easy Rider]

I'm thinking of taking some long trips on the gz250 in some pretty isolated Michigan country.

Even if you could master the technique, what, for instance, is the biggest risk? Breaking some spokes? Bending the rim? Other risks?


Bent spokes, yes, bent rim, yes, and a very real possibility of pinching a hole in the (new) tube as the tire goes back ON.

Even if you could master the technique, how would that impact a ride into isolated territory? Would you carry a set of spare tires, tubes and tire irons ?? And then what for air ??

[Easy Rider]

Just remember this: Someone built this machine.
Someone can service this machine.



True but that "someone" might NOT be the rider.

All things are not possible for everyone. :cool:

[JWR]

If I worried about the what IF'S.

No I won't go there.

Here is something to check into.
AAA motorcycle policy. Sat phone.

Here is something to check into.
AAA motorcycle policy. Sat phone.

I actually have the AAA and used it for the first time just a couple days ago, not b/c I broke down, but to have the bike towed to a shop to put new tires on and other routine maintenance. I know I'm changing the direction of the thread I started, but the mechanic calls me and tells me one of the spokes is broken from the way they towed it (not on a trailer, but rigged to the back with straps, one of which was through the wheel - yes, I questioned the driver if this was okay, but he said they tow bikes like that all the time - as a noob, I accepted that answer, even if reluctantly. Live and learn.).

Anyway, the mechanic says he's sure the way they had the strap between the spokes did it (we both saw the bike delivered to the shop, but did not watch the unloading process in its entirety and did not check the spokes before the tow truck driver left). Needless to say, the towing company refuses to admit they broke the spoke, saying it might have happened when the mechanic was changing the tire. The spoke was sheared off at the nipple (he sent me pics) and says this would not have been caused by me hitting a pothole or whatever (had the bike out 10 days or so ago and did NOT hit a pothole - wiped down tires and bike after the ride and did NOT see any damage to spokes).

Point Number One: Even if you have AAA, out in the sticks you very likely won't get a tow from a company with a proper trailer.

Point Number Two (Really a question): Yes I should have insisted on a proper trailer, even if they had to come back some other day - though AAA might refuse that demand and say I have to take what they can get. But what scenario would you say is most likely the cause of the broken spoke?

Sadly, I don't think I'll ever know and will have to pay for the repair all by my lonesome. I have a damage complaint lodged with AAA, but I"m not holding my breath.

Sorry so long,

Keith

[Sarris]

Brother;

For the cost of a $3 spoke and maybe $10 to install, I wouldn't piss off AAA or the dealer. You'll probably need them again.

If you would have been real nice, the dealer probably would have installed the new spoke for free while they had the tire off.

Make sure if you call AAA (and have RV coverage for motorcycles) ask for a flat bed. I've had them for 20 years and about 7 or 8 tow-ins, never any problem, and usually within the hour.

:)

For the cost of a $3 spoke and maybe $10 to install, I wouldn't piss off AAA or the dealer. You'll probably need them again.

:)

Interesting - the mechanic says the spokes have to be bought as a set ($42) and wants to charge me 2 hours labor, as he says the spokes are interlaced, so all the spokes need to be loosened and the ones near the broken one replaced. I'm getting hosed big-time, you would say, no?

Keith

[Sarris]

Check the parts for sale on site, someone probably has a spoke or two they'll sell you. Yes, Suzuki only sells sets, but why??? Also, YOU can replace a spoke while the wheel is on the bike. Just deflate the tire (tube), push back the sidewall and tube, lift the rim strip, rmove the old nipple, and work the new nipple through the hole. The spoke inserts thru the hub hole. It took me 20 minutes to replace one.

I'd try an independant shop before I'd spend that kind of money for ONE f'n spoke.

:cry:

[Water Warrior 2]

km, is it a front or rear wheel broken spoke ??

km, is it a front or rear wheel broken spoke ??

Rear wheel - I've been doing a little research and most of the info I'm finding is suggesting that replacing only one spoke is not a good, permanent fix as it can lead to an "unbalancing" of the rim. I'd suspect this is even more true with rear wheel? I've also been learning about how to "true" a rim, something I knew nothing about. Apparently, it takes special tools and is a bit of an art form. One web site I found suggested this is something you should do every time you change your tires, but that few riders actually do - or for that matter even maintain their spokes regularly. This may be an expensive lesson - and the mistake was so f **n avoidable - but I am learning something.

Keith

[mr. softie]

I used to build wheels for racing bicycles and yes there is a learning curve that is steeper than one might think. Replacing one spoke should not be a problem however. You can pull a rim out of round or make it wobbly if you don't know what you are doing, but if it is just one spoke that broke, and it didn't break because of hitting anything, simply replacing the spoke and tensioning it the same as the ones next to it should cause no problems. Make sure the new spoke is the same as the old one is all. Try these guys for individual spokes http://www.buchananspokes.net/categories/individual_spokes.asp

If the nipple is still in place it may be possible to replace the spoke without removing the tire. If this is the case leave the tire inflated as that will help hold the nipple. You will probably need a spoke wrench that fits the nipple as well. Just remove the rear wheel from the bike and have at it!

Here is a bit of info I lifted off the web:
"According to DuPape, riders should clean their wheels regularly. That's the best way to prevent big problems. While cleaning, grab groups of four spokes and squeeze them. If done enough times you will develop a feel for the spokes' tension and notice when they start to loosen. Also, broken spokes or small cracks in rims will be noticed before they lead to other problems. A broken spoke should not be replaced individually and forgotten. It could be a sign of a problem. Consider buying a new set (How about those fancy ones you've been eyeing?) and have the wheel completely trued.

Every time the tires are changed, the wheel should be checked for trueness on a truing stand with the tire removed. While properly trued wheels shouldn't suffer from spoke "settling" after the wheel has been laced, new wheels should be checked after their first 500 miles or so. If a loose spoke is found, tighten it up snugly but not so tight as to influence the shape of the rim.

Eventually, spoked wheels will need to be retrued. Spokes are subjected to constantly varying stresses, and they stretch over time, causing looseness. DuPape says that only through regular spoke observation and maintenance can riders stay on the true path of motorcycling."

[Easy Rider]

I actually have the AAA and used it for the first time just a couple days ago, not b/c I broke down, but to have the bike towed to a shop to put new tires on and other routine maintenance.

I have two suggestions:
My shop offers free pickup and delivery on service work in the "off" season. They have a proper bike trailer and know how to use it.
Failing that, I would be tempted to wait until I could RIDE it to the shop. :biggrin:

[Easy Rider]

Interesting - the mechanic says the spokes have to be bought as a set ($42) and wants to charge me 2 hours labor, as he says the spokes are interlaced, so all the spokes need to be loosened and the ones near the broken one replaced. I'm getting hosed big-time, you would say, no?


NO !! (well except for having to buy a whole set of spokes......but then you have spares).

It is RARE in this day and age to find a mechanic who really KNOWS spokes. He is NOT bilking you on the labor. You want it done right and it sounds like he will do that.

I think I'd be tempted to have him check the spokes on the OTHER rim while he has it.

[Water Warrior 2]

km, is it a front or rear wheel broken spoke ??

Rear wheel - I've been doing a little research and most of the info I'm finding is suggesting that replacing only one spoke is not a good, permanent fix as it can lead to an "unbalancing" of the rim. I'd suspect this is even more true with rear wheel? I've also been learning about how to "true" a rim, something I knew nothing about. Apparently, it takes special tools and is a bit of an art form. One web site I found suggested this is something you should do every time you change your tires, but that few riders actually do - or for that matter even maintain their spokes regularly. This may be an expensive lesson - and the mistake was so f **n avoidable - but I am learning something.

Keith

Keith, if you decide to do the repair yourself and have trouble locating individual spokes I will mail you a couple.

[5th_bike]

My rear tire met a roofing nail two weeks ago, flat next day, and today I finally got around to getting the wheel off. Found a smaller nail in it too. That must have been why it needed air every two three months.

I wanted to get a new inner tube to change it myself. I have bicycle tire lifters, but they were totally inadequate, and the tire just didn't want to budge. :bang: How do you guys get that enormous rubber donut off its rim ? :??: Tire lifters seem not enough. I could hardly compress the tire when standing on it...

I brought it to the local shop where they changed the inner tube in no time. Back on the road ! :rawk:

[mr. softie]

5th_bike, I put new tires/tubes on my GZ and used a pair of 12" tire irons I picked up down at the local motorcycle shop. I used a couple of bicycle tire lifters as "helping hands". To break the bead seal I used a couple of woodworking clamps and some short 2x4s. I then proceeded to spend the better part of an entire evening messing around trying to get the new tires on. Of course the tube got pinched and I had to purchase another tube. So in my view it is worth it to have someone else change the tires/tubes.

I am assuming they patched the inside of your tire as well as putting a new tube in? Recommended.

I also recommend using Armor all or the like as tire mounting lubricant if you do changee your tires/tubes yourself.

[5th_bike]

I am assuming they patched the inside of your tire as well as putting a new tube in? Recommended.
I don' know. Labor, half an hour... They have been there forever, I kind of trust them. When I asked if the rear tire was still good they said that it was still good for a couple thousand miles. I just passed the 4,000.

Nice 'harley' avatar.

[Water Warrior 2]

5th_bike, I put new tires/tubes on my GZ and used a pair of 12" tire irons I picked up down at the local motorcycle shop. I used a couple of bicycle tire lifters as "helping hands". To break the bead seal I used a couple of woodworking clamps and some short 2x4s. I then proceeded to spend the better part of an entire evening messing around trying to get the new tires on. Of course the tube got pinched and I had to purchase another tube. So in my view it is worth it to have someone else change the tires/tubes.

I am assuming they patched the inside of your tire as well as putting a new tube in? Recommended.

I also recommend using Armor all or the like as tire mounting lubricant if you do changee your tires/tubes yourself.

Gotta disagree with you softie. Armoral is too slippery and might allow the tire to rotate on the wheel after installation. Would probably rotate the tube and shear off the valve stem too. Just use soapy water or do it right and use tire lubricant.

[mr. softie]

I was researching something else when I came across this article at Randakk's Cycle Shack, A Goldwing Site, about the damage done to rims by various lubricants, and the possible slipping tire issues caused by others. He is referring to rims not made from chrome plated or stainless steel, but I know myGZ rims were rusty inside when I removed my tires, and I had to sand some of the pitted areas to make them smooth. Here is the quote:

"If you ever get a chance, look at the ingredients on a can of Drano or Sani-Flush. You'll find that products such as Drano contain sodium hydroxide, also known as lye. Sprinkle some Drano into an empty aluminum foil pie pan. Then sprinkle some water into the pan and watch the bottom of the aluminum pan literally evaporate, leaving a grayish white powder behind.

A similar, but less severe chemical reaction takes place when soapy water is used as a lubricant for tire mounting and dismounting.

One optional lubricant is Lemon Pledge furniture polish. Now the dismount and remount job is so easy that even a caveman can do it!

But now the problem with Lemon Pledge furniture polish is that the first time our caveman friend slams on the brakes, the rim will stop, but the motorcycle will act like the Energizer Bunny and keep rolling! Now the tire beads are so slippery that there isn't enough friction between the rim and tire bead to keep the tire from slipping around the rim!

During my 43 years as a motorcycle technician, I've tried everything from Vaseline, axle grease, rear end gear oil, motor oil, soapy water, Crisco, Mazola oil, olive oil, 3-in-1 oil, WD-40, Lionel electric train oil, cod liver oil, castor oil, and candle wax to Vicks Vapo-Rub. All of these products had major drawbacks when it came to tire mounting lubricant and sealant!

I finally found a product that will ease the mounting and dismounting of a motorcycle tire. This product also acts as a sealant. The product is known as a protectant. Two brand names of such protectants are STP Son-Of-A Gun and Armor-All Protectant. These products are used exclusively in my shop, and they can be purchased at most auto parts stores and discount store automotive departments.

If you choose to have your local Honda dealer or certified Honda technician change your tires, I highly recommend that you insist telling your service people, 'PLEASE DO NOT USE SOAPY WATER TO MOUNT MY NEW TIRES. USE A LUBRICANT THAT IS SAFE AND FREE OF ALKALIS, SUCH AS A PROTECTANT.' "

Howard Halasz, Wing World Technical Contributor - Houston, TX ' ' " (end of quote)

Of course the obvious question...did he try a tire mounting lube like Rim-Slip or Ru-Glide? The only problem I see with these is that a casual changer of tires would die of old age before they used a whole bottle. We want to use something we already have in our garage. Some recommend Silicone spray as being non injurious but effective. I have used both Armor all and silicone spray to mount handlebar grips and after it sits for a bit there is no slippage at all.

[Easy Rider]

Then sprinkle some water into the pan and watch the bottom of the aluminum pan literally evaporate, leaving a grayish white powder behind.

A similar, but less severe chemical reaction takes place when soapy water is used as a lubricant for tire mounting and dismounting.


SIGH! There are 2 things wrong with this conclusion:

1) While real soap is made with a process using lye (or something like it), about 80-90% of what we call "soap" today is really detergent and is NOT made with an alkalyde process like real soap.

2) Even if you did accidentally get some "real" soap, then you would also have to have alloy wheels to have a problem; the GZ doesn't.

When an article starts off like that, it is hard to put a lot of stock in what follows.

What I DO know is that Armor All and similar products that get on the TREAD presents a HAZZARD; not so with detergent or other products that don't "coat" the rubber.

Advising people to put Armor All on ANY PART of a tire or wheel is just not prudent advice, IMHO.

Oops, guess I should read the WHOLE post before replying!
You got lucky with your handgrips. Silicone is "super" slippery and never degrades.
It DOES find it's way into tiny cranks and crevases in the rubber and is almost impossible to completely remove.....EVER, by any means. It also has a tendency to "migrate" and tries to cover the WHOLE surface of anything it is applied to.
Silicone on or near tires is the absolute WORST thing you can do.

[mr. softie]

After pondering the wisdom of my posts on this subject, I would have to agree that I have been misled by information taken in good faith from the internet. So... I take it all back!

[primal]

I changed the tires on my KZ550 myself, but only because they're tubeless mag wheels. I don't think I'd be up to changing a tube-type tire without all the proper tools. For a tubeless tire, all it took me was 3 tire irons, a big C-clamp, and a liberal dose of Windex as lubricant for getting the new tire on the rim. Actually, the most difficult part aside from breaking the 26 year old glued on bead was getting the bead on the rear tire to seat (probably would have been easier if it wasn't 30 degrees outside that day!).

[adrianinflorida]

I changed the tires on my KZ550 myself, but only because they're tubeless mag wheels. I don't think I'd be up to changing a tube-type tire without all the proper tools. For a tubeless tire, all it took me was 3 tire irons, a big C-clamp, and a liberal dose of Windex as lubricant for getting the new tire on the rim. Actually, the most difficult part aside from breaking the 26 year old glued on bead was getting the bead on the rear tire to seat (probably would have been easier if it wasn't 30 degrees outside that day!).IMO, tube tires are actually easier to change, breaking the bead on a tube tire is much easier than on a tubeless tire, usually. Also, setting the bead is easier on a tube tire, because the tube pushes the bead onto the rim, you don't have to try to keep the air from escaping as you try to get the bead set.

Neither here nor there, though, it's a nasty, pain in the ass job, that I only do because I can and don't want to spend the money for something I can do myself. :)

[primal]

I changed the tires on my KZ550 myself, but only because they're tubeless mag wheels. I don't think I'd be up to changing a tube-type tire without all the proper tools. For a tubeless tire, all it took me was 3 tire irons, a big C-clamp, and a liberal dose of Windex as lubricant for getting the new tire on the rim. Actually, the most difficult part aside from breaking the 26 year old glued on bead was getting the bead on the rear tire to seat (probably would have been easier if it wasn't 30 degrees outside that day!).IMO, tube tires are actually easier to change, breaking the bead on a tube tire is much easier than on a tubeless tire, usually. Also, setting the bead is easier on a tube tire, because the tube pushes the bead onto the rim, you don't have to try to keep the air from escaping as you try to get the bead set.

Well, considering I have trouble changing the tube tire on my bike.... ;)

Neither here nor there, though, it's a nasty, pain in the ass job, that I only do because I can and don't want to spend the money for something I can do myself. :)

Absolutely agree with you 100% here. If I had the money to take my bike to the shop for every little thing, I'd have enough money to have a nicer bike. :)

[savrip]

I need some optimism here. Check out my video of my truing rack. All the spokes were replaced with new ones after finding 8 broken total. All spokes are just hand tight and the hub is able to be moved slightly in the center. My friend (I mentioned in another post) that has trued rims for 5 years, I hope can make sense of it. I'm hoping that I'll have a wonderful follow up video after we're done. If anyone knows where I can get the info for the distance of rim to hub it would be much appreciated.

Rear Wheel mounted for truing (http://qik.com/video/41147321)

[grego]

hi all

now here's a different thought. i am restoring a 35 year old 35 foot sailboat. rewired the whole boat. i needed something that i could put on the wires so they would slide thru holes with rubber chaffe guards on them, and when running multi cables thru the hole. tried numerous lubricants, but most were messy, some didn't work . i finally found a lubricant the is the slipperiest in the world and i have run lots of wires thru conduit.using the yellow 888 wire lub.. are you ready for this......ky gel. its a water base and its really really slippery, the cables fly thru the holes. and its water based and dries rather quickly and leaves no residue. its expensive but works.

safe biking

grego

[birdmove]

I replaced both tires on a 2005 Kawasaki KLR250 dual sport a ccouple years ago (traded the bike off later). It's not bad. Remember that off road riders need to be able to fix a flat on the trail. I use 3 tire irons. You don't need super long ones. They may actually contribute to bending a rim as they give you too much mechanical advantage. I used a c-clamp to break the bead. Off roaders sometimes use the side stand of another motorcycle to push on the tire and break the bead. Windex works fine for a lube on the bead. A little talcum powder is good to apply to the tube so it won't twist, but will be able to slide and position itself as you inflate it. After you break the bead all around, be sure you push the beaded area to the center of the rim, which will give you the most "slack" on the tire as you work it. I use 3 irons, as I said. Two with my hands, and I use the third to keep from losing ground with the bead as I work my way around levering off the tire. I just set my knee on the one tire iron and grab another bite with the third lever with my hand.

I would suggest anyone to watch a youtube or two before they do the job.

You have to be careful not to pinch the inner tube with a tire iron as you install the new tire. Don't push the irons in too deep. I have never pinched a tube, but even some pro mechanics do from time to time (I work at a dealership). Use a good amount of the Windex to lube the bead. It's WAY harder to do the job without the Windex/lube. You may have to overinflate the tire to set the bead. You'll hear a nice POP when the bead seats. I did the job working on my garage floor.I used the new tire and set the wheel on it as I worked so as not to set the wheel on the concrete floor. Set the wheel on the old tire as you work to install the new one. Your just using an available tire as a work stnd to set the wheel on.

If you do it yourself it'll give you a good feeling to accomplish this. I did it the last time at 57 year old. The hardest part-believe it or not-was feeding the valve stem on the tube through the hole for it in the wheel. It was tight quarters there.

[Water Warrior 2]

Excellant info Birdmove. Also a good reason for folks like me(WITH NO PATIENCE)to go to a tire man for flats and replacement.
Mag wheels and tubeless tires are my choice, one of the reasons for the Vstrom and the M-50.