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alanmcorcoran
02-06-2009, 09:55 PM
Started a new thread. I pulled my spark plug. I will probably go buy a new one just because I might as well, but i am posting a photo. Hopefully my photo is good enough for you mechanics to see if it is "fouled."

http://www.postimage.org/Pq1sSC60.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1sSC60)
http://www.postimage.org/Pq1sSJAr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1sSJAr)

patrick_777
02-06-2009, 10:56 PM
You did it ALL BY YOURSELF??!?

:jawdrop:

music man
02-06-2009, 11:00 PM
It doesn't look "Fouled" but it does look horrible, time to put a new one in that bad boy. And yes you might as well, they are only like a couple of bucks, and for someone like you thats like what, .0000000002 cents. :lol:

mr. softie
02-07-2009, 12:52 AM
gap looks too big. color not bad. too large a gap can cause driveability issues. sorry no caps too lazy:-)

alanmcorcoran
02-07-2009, 01:41 AM
I went to the Pep Boys (closest auto parts to me) and they didn't have an NGK (?) but they sold me a Champion "equivalent." It looked pretty similar, but I couldn't tell by eyeballing it if the thread was the same (I suppose it would be, but I really don't know my spark plugs.)

Once in hand I determined that the NGK had an 18mm nut on it and the champion "equivalent" had a 5/8" nut. This was enough to convince me to wait until I could get the right plug, or at least one that matched the manual or check with you guys first. I figured out enough to know that if you jam the wrong sparkplug into the sparkplug hole, you can ruin the head and possibly the engine. I cleaned the carbon off (the plug actually looks worse in the picture than it did in real life) checked the gap (looked too big to me, too, softie, but it was about .66mm which is about exactly right.)

Having eliminated the spark plug as a source of my woes, I moved on to the air filter and the air filter tube. Air filter looked okay, a little brown tinge on one small part it (probably oil) but clean overall. Blew some air through it like it shows in the manual just for practice. Checked the drain plug. It was there. Took it off, maybe a half teaspoon of oil came out. Seems like they should have checked this when they did the 3K service. (Neither the spark plug nor the drain plug showed any signs of having ever been removed, but, again, I'm no expert.) There was a little oil in the bottom of the air box. I wiped that out and put the filter and the plug back.

It's only my first time looking at these things, but I would venture to say that neither the spark plug or the air filter is the source of my problems. Is cleaning the carburetor something a newb can do without making matters worse?

Thanks to Patrick for the advice on things not to do when removing the plug, and softie for the vote of confidence on me being able to inspect the air filter & plug. So far, it seems like Easy had it right when he said it probably wasn't either of those things.

alanmcorcoran
02-07-2009, 01:53 AM
Hmmmm......uuuuuu.... I don't think so. :whistle:

GZ's (and modern bikes in general) tend to run LEAN, not rich.
A lean condition gives a POP, usually on deceleration. A real after-fire is a loud BANG, along with fire from the pipe; that is caused by a really rich mixture.

Valve clearance is measured in THOUSANDTHS of an inch and is seldom out of adjustment more than .001-.005 inch. You can sometimes HEAR a difference but the affect on performance is TINY, if any at all. Impossible, no, but highly unlikely.

I think I have heard the POP, on my Strat. Tends to backfire a bit if you make poor shifting decisions. The sound I got in the rain yesterday was more BANG like, firecracker bang like, and it did sound like it was coming from the tail pipe. I didn't notice any fire as I was focused on getting out of traffic, on account of being stalled and the light being green and everything. Only happened the once. I think I smelled some gas too. The cranking was characteristic of what we called "flooded" when we couldn't start a lawn mower.

mr. softie
02-07-2009, 02:18 AM
Sounds just like my GZ when I first got it. I cleaned the carb and it runs like new.

If you like a challenge and are feeling blessed you could probably clean the carb. Main things to remember are that the parts are very small, and cleanliness and orderliness are imperative. Also keep in mind that you should always protect your eyes when working with carb cleaner. I use spray "Gumout". It will destroy any rubber components (O-rings etc) so you must remove all rubber parts and set them safely aside. Muy importante! Have an exploded view of the carb handy, take notes and pics during the process to help you put it back together, and be careful of springs under tension when you take stuff apart, or they will go flying (the enrichment system has a spring under a cover, for one).

Its easy really, just a bit intimidating the first time. You want to be very methodical and thorough, and use the gumout spray to clean all the little passageways the gas has to flow through. Be careful of over spray, the gumout will mess non metallic things up on contact. :poke2:

One item to note: the idle mixture screw on your carb probably has a cover over it, which must be removed. Some people drill a small hole in the cover and thread a small screw into it, and pull the cover out that way. You have to be careful not to drill into the idle mixture screw of course. Then when you have access to the screw, gently turn it clockwise in and COUNT the turns till it touches bottom. Record the number of turns, it is usually 2-1/2 turns or so. Then remove the mixture screw completely, and look into the hole. There is a tiny O-ring down there that must be removed before you start spraying gumout. If you are having idle problems this is the area that needs cleaning. Usually the rest of the carb is fine (jets etc). When you put the O-ring and screw back in after cleaning screw it all the way in (GENTLY) and then back it out the number of turns you recorded.

Piece of cake really :lol: Or you can take the carb to a carb shop and have them clean it. Only takes 5 minutes to remove it from the bike. If you do it yourself you will know it was done right.

patrick_777
02-07-2009, 04:55 AM
I'm going to reiterate what Easy said. Take it back to the dealer. You are under warranty, and you don't want to take the carb off.

Nothing against you in particular, but I won't even take my carb off...

alantf
02-07-2009, 11:49 AM
I don't know about America, but in England Champion plugs are more prevalent than NGK. So long as the guy checks his comparison list (the same NGK, Champion, & whatever else is on the shelf plugs, will all have different numbers for the same thing) you should have no problems. I've been using Champion plugs since the early '60s. Oh, and "yes" all plugs have a standard thread.

Easy Rider
02-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Is cleaning the carburetor something a newb can do without making maters worse?


NO! Let's not get too carried away here and start thinking you actually have some mechanical ability !!! :poke2: :crackup

Good job on the plug, BTW! :tup:

alanmcorcoran
02-07-2009, 01:25 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I am actually blessed with a lot of "ability." It's experience I lack, and that usually is the difference between getting a result and just wasting time in the garage. As softie pointed out, lots can go wrong with cleaning a carb. I used to be bolder about diving into this stuff, but over the years, I have found more and more that things are often no longer built to be easily serviced, and can be very tricky to disassemble and even trickier to re-assemble. My frst experience tearing down a notebook computer put me off electronics for years, until I finally sucked it up and replaced (successfully!) the color wheel on a 55 inch DLP TV. I only did it because I had already bought a plasma to replace it, the "do it yourself" cost was $75, the dealer cost was $600 and I figured the thing probably wasn't worth a lot more than that.

I think there's a good chance they really didn't do anything other than change the oil. In any case, I will be taking it back in.

alanmcorcoran
02-07-2009, 01:27 PM
alantf - what's the champion model in your GZ? Because of the awkward angle I was concerned I might have trouble getting the boot back on if the thing wasn't the exact size and shape. Not to mention I bought a 5/8" plug wrench.

mr. softie
02-07-2009, 02:16 PM
Alan- I have to tear my notebook computer down 2 or 3 times a day just to keep it running!:-)

I agree if the GZ is under warranty let Suzuki fix it! Ask them to install a new carb or whatever it takes to get the bike running right.

patrick_777
02-07-2009, 03:18 PM
Not to mention I bought a 5/8" plug wrench.

You know that the tool kit comes with a plug wrench, right?

alanmcorcoran
02-07-2009, 03:48 PM
Unless I am mistaken, the tool kit wrench is 18mm. This is fine for the NGK plug but is too big for the Champion. I ended up not using it this time because I put the old plug back. Partly due to the size and partly due to not wanting to provide any "excuses" (Well, there's your problem sir, You can't put a mexican plug in a Japanese bike!) when I brought the bike back in.)

The wrench was like 5 bucks and it looked like it would go around corners. As you well know, you got to have small fingers to get at the plug as it is.

alanmcorcoran
02-07-2009, 04:00 PM
Alan- I have to tear my notebook computer down 2 or 3 times a day just to keep it running.

Have you gone in deep? I swear, some of that stuff is not designed to be taken apart! Little teeny tiny screws, ZIF cables, spring loaded shit that flys out in all directions, glued on bits of foam that never go back, impossible angles for screwing and unscrewing (sexual innuendo opportunity) and I-Strip-On-Contact philips screws made out of butter. I had a fan problem with my last one - something that's a piece of cake to fix on a desktop. I gave up after I had 7/8's of the guts removed and still couldn't get to it. It's like a bad video game figuring out how to remove the layers without effing everything up. Bought a new notebook. Sent the old one back to Sony. They replaced the fan, the power supply, the motherboard and the hard drive (wiped my data.) I suspect because they didn't know what was making the noise so they just did everything. Now I have a spare. Can't they make the fan as easy to remove as the memory? Is that asking so much? Is the ONLY moving part besides the keyboard and drives. Collects dirt, s/b lubricated, has bearings that wear out... gee, wonder if it might go before the rest of it. Notebooks are built like disposable lighters.

music man
02-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I am actually blessed with a lot of "ability." It's experience I lack, and that usually is the difference between getting a result and just wasting time in the garage. As softie pointed out, lots can go wrong with cleaning a carb. I used to be bolder about diving into this stuff, but over the years, I have found more and more that things are often no longer built to be easily serviced, and can be very tricky to disassemble and even trickier to re-assemble. My frst experience tearing down a notebook computer put me off electronics for years, until I finally sucked it up and replaced (successfully!) the color wheel on a 55 inch DLP TV. I only did it because I had already bought a plasma to replace it, the "do it yourself" cost was $75, the dealer cost was $600 and I figured the thing probably wasn't worth a lot more than that.

I think there's a good chance they really didn't do anything other than change the oil. In any case, I will be taking it back in.


If you can work on the tiny and fragile shit in a computer or T.V. then you could breeze right through the GZ carb, it is a lot simpler than some I have encountered. But...... I agree with everyone else, your bike is under warranty, take it back and make them fix that shit and be done with it.

Easy Rider
02-07-2009, 04:20 PM
But...... I agree with everyone else, your bike is under warranty, take it back and make them fix that shit and be done with it.

The vote so far:
Make Suzuki fix it: 1,342
Keep eeffing with it yourself: 0

This vote count was taken using "Chicago" rules !! :biggrin:

alantf
02-07-2009, 05:08 PM
Sorry Alan, But I Live in Tenerife now, so I don't know if they even sell Champions over here. My bike is coming up to 10,000 km - the point that the handbook says to replace the plug - so I'll see what the bike shop has in. If I remember rightly, the spare plug that I used to carry for my last bike over here (a 2 stroke, so I had to carry a spare because of the oiling up of the plug) was some Jap junk, but it seemed to work o.k. As for the size of the wrench - there are, as you say, 2 sizes, but I've found that if you need a certain plug, then whatever brand you get has the same wrench size. If the shop tells you that this or that plug is the equivalent, & then the wrench size is different, I would be inclined to be sceptical that they had given you the right plug. The whole idea of manufacturers making equivalent plugs is that they should all be EXACTLY the same. (or so I've found)

I've just checked the comparison chart, & this is what I've come up with :-

NGK (as fitted) DR8EA
AC Delco S102F
Autolite 2796
Champion Z9Y

But PLEASE double check these yourself if you can get another brand - or at least see if these correspond to what the salesman tells you!

Easy Rider
02-07-2009, 06:44 PM
But PLEASE double check these yourself if you can get another brand - or at least see if these correspond to what the salesman tells you!

I used to swear by Champion plugs........until my S90 failed to start years ago (a LOT of years) and I almost got a hernia kicking it over so long. The plug had shorted out internally; no spark across the electrodes but nice spark from body to frame if you left it a little loose for the "standard" test. Been using NGKs since then (about 35 years) and never a failure.

mr. softie
02-08-2009, 02:50 AM
Notebooks are built like disposable lighters.

My notebook is built like a Model A Ford. It is simple to work on, is an antique, is slow, is noisy, is under powered, and it breaks down a lot. It just keeps running year after year after year though... Some bailing wire, twine, and an old leather boot tongue are enough to get it back on the (information) highway.

Dell Inspiron 3800
600 Mhz PIII
512 megs ram
20 Gig Hard drive
fluky keyboard
flaky optical drive
5 minute battery

alanmcorcoran
02-20-2009, 12:13 AM
Okay, so I took the bike to the shop.

Brian: Well we got your diag back..
Me: Well, did you find something?
Brian: Oh yeah, the tech says there's "Lots of probelms with the carburetor."
Me: Really? We'll I suppose that would be covered under warranty, no? (Thanks Easy...)
Brian: Ummm (gulp)... Uh.... actually, no, a carb cleaning is not covered under warranty.
Me: A Carb cleaning? You already charged me for a carb cleaning.
Brian: Uh no, we only did a 3K service.
Me: Read the itemization, it clearly says Carb cleaning. So, did you do one or just write it down?
Brian: Well, I don't know, that tech isn't here anymore. (FYI, this was like three weeks ago.)
Me: Well, frankly, it didn't seem like they did anything to the bike for the 3K. They didn't clean out the air filter plug and the bike stalled on the way out of your parking lot. I called service the next day and the guy told me to try Seafoam and if that didn't work to bring it back. Well, it didn't work and I brought it back.
Brian: Um.... Let me see what I can do.

That was at about 3pm PST. I was in the office until 5. No word yet from Brian.

Do you see whay I hate service departments? By the way, I dropped this bike off last Wednesday and today was the first call. This is a huge modern dealership in a sparkly building. I do like their parts guy who refused to sell my wife a 3/4 helmet (for my anniversary) without my head being there. (He gave her a picture of it.) Brought my head down and picked it up after a test fit. (Still might have gone too small, hoping it compresses a little more.)

JWR
02-20-2009, 12:36 AM
I think I would ask Brian if there was something going on that they are not telling me about,or is it something they are not sure about.

You need to be nice,( I am sure you are) but you need to know the truth.

Shop problem??? Management problem???? Dollars???

alanmcorcoran
02-20-2009, 01:45 AM
I blame society.

1) Being a mechanic used to be a respectable job. Doesn't seem that way anymore. Plus, you don't even get a mechanic, you get a "tech." The sales guys make more money than the techs and the big money is in F&I and other high profit (read low value) activities.
2) I believe in the 80/20 rule. Meaning I probably am more able than 80% of so-called mechanics to fix my bike myself. I also suspect that, if you are a member of the 20% that know what they are doing, you are working at the BMW or Porsche store, not at a Kawa/Yamaha/Suz/Honda dealer. Bottom line, the odds are stacked against the service customer.
3) The "service writers" (a job that did not exist 40 years ago) get more respect than the guys that fix things. The repairmen are treated like serfs, plugged in and thrown away like a filter and used oil. The money goes to the service manager, store profits, etc. - not to the mechanics.
4) Regardless of what they claim, most dealers do not give a crap about customer satisfaction. They are only concerned with their immediate survival and they are leveraged up to the hilt. The leveraged economics mean you can't take the time to do things properly, you can't afford experienced people and you need to "clear tickets" as fast as possible. No one is rated or rewarded on their mechanical genius - they are rated on the dollar value of the service tickets they clear.
5) To get good service, you have to become a problem customer, one that threatens the dealers cutomer service rating with the manufacturers, or just becomes a big distraction from clearing tickets. Even then, most dealers simply don't have the ability to provide service even if when they want to.
6) Mistakes cannot be admitted to or re-visited. They must be flatly denied. Mistakes cost the dealership money. Fixing mistakes not only doesn't make new money, but consumes resources that could be making money.

I didn't get this way overnight. And not every experience I've had with dealers has been bad. But MC dealers set a new low.
I also used to work for a car dealer and, although management talked a good game, we stank at service. We had a prima donna in the paint and body shop who thought he knew better than the manufacturers, we had guys go directly from working the sprayers in the car wash into installing brake pads, we had no end of people bringing their cars back for the same issues over and over. In the 12 months I was there we went through 6 service managers. We had one German mechanic that knew what he was doing (Dieter) and he only worked on Mercedes. He took his time, did what needed to be done, and did not care when the service manager, or the owner, got on his back about his pace. He knew that he was the only guy at the dealership, maybe the only guy in Upstate New York, that really knew how to fix a Mercedes (and yes, folks, they need lots of fixing, just like a Ford or Chrysler [okay, maybe not like a Chrysler]) and the dealership would be in a world of hurt if he left. The guys that worked there wouldn' let anyone else in the shop touch their cars except Dieter.

I have to find me a Dieter that knows GZ's.

dan_
02-20-2009, 05:31 PM
His name'll prolly be Wong. haha that was wong..

Easy Rider
02-20-2009, 08:42 PM
This is a huge modern dealership in a sparkly building.

That may be the problem. Got so much overhead that they can't afford to pay good help.

You said all the right things. Stick to your guns !!!

alanmcorcoran
02-26-2009, 04:46 PM
...And the beat goes on...

So my wife comes back from Davis last night and, since we are Suburbaning to Breckenridge Friday, I asked her to drop me off at the dealer to collect the GZ today. When I arrived, the sole (barely sentient) service writer pulled up my "ticket" printed it out and presented it to me. To paraphrase: here's what it said:

BIKE RUNNING RUFF. Cleaned Emissions, BIKE STILL RUNS RUFF. Recommend: Carb Cleaning.

This after I was told it was "ready" and "all fixed." (And yes, they spell it "RUFF.")

I collected Mike, one of the "senior" writers, and I took him step by step through the entire sequence, starting with the 3K service (wherein they charged me for a carb clean), the continued stalls on warmup, my conversation with HIM about not riding the bike with the choke on (which he initially denied, then admitted to), the return of the bike, the first call I got where they recommended a carb clean (really? Another one?), etc. etc. and brought him up to today, where, again, they recommended a carb clean - which they either never did in the first place, isn't really the problem, or did a half ass job on. (Tech that did it either quit or was fired so no way to check with him on what exactly was done - I suspect nothing.)

Then I made him ROLL the bike out of the shop and start it up in the parking lot (COLD) following the sequence HE recommended (with Choke on then off.) As luck would have it, the bike continues to run like shit when cold and did so for Mike (alternating between racing with the choke full on, and stalling with the choke anything less than 3/4.) Mike admitted the bike was still running like shit. (I don't think Mike likes me very much at this point.)

So, ONCE AGAIN, the bike is in the shop for yet another "Diag" and maybe they will reclean the carb "if it needs it". I honestly don't think they can fix it, but I am going to leave it there and make them work on it until they either stumble across the problem, buy me a new one, or offer me cash to go away.

I'll be out of the state for the next 10-12 days. I'll report back on my next visit.

02-26-2009, 05:17 PM
So, ONCE AGAIN, the bike is in the shop for yet another "Diag" and maybe they will reclean the carb "if it needs it". I honestly don't think they can fix it, but I am going to leave it there and make them work on it until they either stumble across the problem, buy me a new one, or offer me cash to go away.


What a nightmare - and your bike is basically new! I wonder if you could go over their heads and contact Suzuki directly. They surely don't want dealers like this representing them; maybe they have a customer relations arm that can bring some pressure to bear on this moronic dealer? Anybody know?

Keith

Easy Rider
02-26-2009, 06:11 PM
...I'll be out of the state for the next 10-12 days. I'll report back on my next visit.

Gonna visit some of us "fly overs" again ?? :neener:

I'd be tempted to give Suzuki a "heads up", if you have time before you leave town.

Moedad
02-26-2009, 06:48 PM
Put Mike and the GZ out of your mind for a while and enjoy the skiing.

alanmcorcoran
02-26-2009, 07:26 PM
I think Breckenridge is not really considered "flyover." It's sort of the poor man's Aspen. Not that I ever been skiing in Aspen.

mr. softie
02-26-2009, 09:17 PM
I spent a winter (1970) skiing/'working" at Aspen on the slope maintainance crew back when Hunter S Thompson (RIP) was running for sheriff. It was a small cowboy town then, except on the weekends. Good times ski bumming when I should have been going to school. Back then you could buy a condo at the foot of Ajax for $60,000. Wish now I could have bought a bunch of them. I have been to Breckenridge as well and preferred it really. Not as snooby. Oh-Oh

http://www.postimage.org/PqjBD4J.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqjBD4J)

Easy Rider
03-09-2009, 02:46 PM
...So, ONCE AGAIN, the bike is in the shop for yet another "Diag" and maybe they will reclean the carb "if it needs it".

You back home yet?
What I want to know is: How did you manage to infect my bike from 2000 miles away? :biggrin:

I went out yesterday (65) and used my recommended technique for cold starting. Started fine but didn't seem to rev. up under the choke like I remembered. Let it warm up while I suited up and had the choke down to about half when I took off. Went for about 3 miles and went for a U-turn and it DIED; I guess that is a hint that it is time to turn the choke all the way off. I did that and it was OK for the rest of an hour's ride.........but the idle did still seem a little unstable.

Something is definitely amiss. It really acts like a "bad fuel" problem to me. I've had similar problems with other bikes when I got too much Stabil in the tank. Before I start draining fuel and pumping in some heavy duty carb. cleaner, I thought I'd wait until you find out something.

Egerly awaiting a report. :cool:

alanmcorcoran
03-09-2009, 03:06 PM
Good morning Easy.

Yes, back today. Bike is still at shop, but I got an encouraging voice mail from "Mike" down there the day I left. Something about cleaning out emissions system I think, but I will try and get all details when I pick it up. Probably won't be unil tomorrow or wednesday. I am not sure if CA bikes are different or they make one sucky bike for the whole US. In general, our cars have extra bullshit on them to help keep our LA Basin air breathable.

Easy Rider
03-09-2009, 04:02 PM
Good morning Easy.

Yes, back today. Bike is still at shop, .............

Welcome back!

****NEWS FLASH**** Problem solved......I think.
Remember now that the shop (which I generally trust) HAD my bike just before I noticed this problem......SIGH......

MY problem appears to be a plugged air filter; I guess you could call that part of the "emissions system" since it looks like it has picked up some oil from the crankcase vent loop. Anyhow, the center of the filter LOOKS oily and it SMELLS like oil/fuel....probably from running WAY rich due to the oil on the paper.

I won't know for sure for a couple of days since I had to order a new filter $24....(YIPE..that is with a 15% discount) but experience tells me that is going to fix it. Now, what caused it in the first place ?? Don't know and may never know......unless it does it again but having the oil level too high might contribute to the problem. Didn't you have your oil too high once upon a time ??
This might be more likely to occur if your riding style includes a lot of high RPMs and/or sustained high top speeds.

I also know that some shop mechanics are in the habit of rev'ing the crap out of things they are working on and that alone might have kicked some oil up into the filter. The bottom of the "box" was a little sticky but little or nothing in the drain hose.

So.......the point for you is: If they didn't check/replace the air filter, be sure you do that before you leave the shop. Only takes a couple of minutes and the problem was really obvious as I was pulling mine out.

And for others who may be having problems with erratic idle speed, stalling out or the choke acting differently than you remember............CHECK YOUR AIR FILTER. Once it gets oily, there is no way to fix it; need a new one.

Come to think of it, I remember getting a slight fuel smell during/after the last ride. Hmmm...... :shocked:

alanmcorcoran
03-09-2009, 04:30 PM
I "checked" mine and it looked okay (although there was oil in the drain tube.) But since this was the first time I have ever checked one, I was only going with the manual as my guide and perhaps I didn't check for the right stuff. And, yes, I over filled my oil. I will order a filter crom Bike bandit just to eliminate this as an issue.

Easy Rider
03-09-2009, 04:46 PM
I will order a filter crom Bike bandit just to eliminate this as an issue.

Just out of curiosity, what's their price? I'm too lazy to look; it's about time for my afternoon nap !! Pitty you poor suckers that still have to work for a living. :whistle:

P.S. The California model does have some extra emissions stuff; charcoal canister and tubing/valves.

alanmcorcoran
03-10-2009, 05:37 PM
Okay, Suzi's back. And she is running like new, maybe better.

Unfortunately, the service guy that I was working with, "Mike" was out sick today, so I didn't get the first person story on it. On the repair order it basically said, "re-cleaned carburator, inspected/adjusted valves, cleaned emission system."

I tested it as follows: 1 minute warm up at full choke (from "cold" start.): OK. 1 minute at half choke. Then drop choke off completely. All good, not racing, no drifting, idle low but not too low. Took it around the parking lot up to second and down to a complete stop several times. No stalling. Turned it off. After taking my paperwork (NO CHARGE!) I fired it up, took it up through fifth and then down to zero at a light (NO choke.) No stall.

Even better news on the freeway. I was able to stay with or ahead of the traffic all the way back to my office (two freeways, about 25 miles.) It was little windy today, but not too bad - I was able to easily get to 70 and, with a little tuck in behind the windshield, hit 75 on a few stretches. When I got off the freeway, came to a complete stop, NO STALL.

I suspect that they either did a half-ass job when i first brought it in, or no job at all, and the second guy just "inspected it" and recommended (but did not do) a carb cleaning - which was probably not done the first time. By the THIRD time, and after I had made a pain in the ass out of myself, they took the time to actually service the bike.

mrlmd1
03-10-2009, 05:57 PM
Now don't touch ANYTHING except the fuel tank filler cap and the hand/foot controls. No adjustments to ANYTHING. Ever. :biggrin: :cool: :) :tongue: :poke2: :rawk:

Easy Rider
03-11-2009, 01:23 AM
Now don't touch ANYTHING except the fuel tank filler cap and the hand/foot controls. No adjustments to ANYTHING. Ever. :biggrin: :cool: :) :tongue: :poke2: :rawk:

:plus1: :smoke:

Easy Rider
03-17-2009, 05:25 PM
Okay, Suzi's back. And she is running like new, maybe better.


Good for you; bad for me. :cry:

New air filter didn't fix mine. Off to drain the old gas out and run some cleaner through.....and check the idle mixture screw to be sure it hasn't fallen out.
:skull:

alanmcorcoran
03-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Assuming your carb is clean as a whistle, you still have the mysterious "emissions", and... the valves. If you get it fixed let us know what the magic was. I wasn't too hopeful on the air filter - mine wasn't pristine, but it was pretty clean.

Easy Rider
03-17-2009, 07:55 PM
Assuming your carb is clean as a whistle,

you still have the mysterious "emissions", and...

the valves.

I wasn't too hopeful on the air filter - mine wasn't pristine, but it was pretty clean.

It probably isn't really all that clean after sitting all winter.....

I don't have that "stuff"; only you guys on the left coast........

I'd like to say it can't be the valves but not ruling anything out at the moment.

Mine is a couple of years older than yours and the air filter looked light brown; it was due for a change.

It's GOTTA be the carb. or the gas.........right ?? :whistle: :popcorn:

alanmcorcoran
03-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Carb makes the most sense to me. Back in my cab driving days, most of my aggravation came from crappy carburetion - typically on "Chrysler" products. I also discovered that a Toyota Tercel and a Chevy Nova can be air starved at high altitudes (used to put a clothes pin in to hold the air flap open.)

Easy Rider
03-18-2009, 05:00 PM
Carb makes the most sense to me.

I think I'm pretty much back to where I was last year.
I drained the carb.
I reset the idle mixture screw....about 3 turns out.
I tightened the boots on BOTH sides of the carb. Both were loose.
I think that last one was the major culprit.

NOW......the remaining question IS: Does anybody have a GZ where the idle does NOT vary a lot from cold to hot?? When cold (after turning off the choke) mine has an idle speed that borders on being too LOW. After it heats up good, it borders on being too FAST.
It has been pretty much like that since I got it (2nd owner). It is somewhat annoying.

JWR
03-18-2009, 05:16 PM
In cold weather, I choke mine about half way, leave the driveway, then take the choke off while in 2nd or 3rd gear.
My first stop sign is 1/4 mile away, never had any problem.

Hot or cold is always the same rpm.

My bike has always been ridden hard and put up wet....

I got no complaints about it.

alanmcorcoran
03-18-2009, 05:42 PM
the remaining question IS: Does anybody have a GZ where the idle does NOT vary a lot from cold to hot?? When cold (after turning off the choke) mine has an idle speed that borders on being too LOW. After it heats up good, it borders on being too FAST.
It has been pretty much like that since I got it (2nd owner). It is somewhat annoying.

This was very pronounced in mine before Mission Motorsports finally fixed it. There is still some of this effect, but it is much reduced. If you want, I can give the number for mission motorsports and you couldtalk to "Mike" who personally supervised the work on mine after I made a stink about the first two (failed) attempts. Mine is more than noticeably improved. I only need half choke to start it, and after a two, three minutes, no choke at all. The idle is lower that I had it before and it hasn't stalled once since I got it back. I'm pretty damn happy with the way it's running.

I agree that the idle drift is very annoying. Especially when you know it is not necessary.

Easy Rider
03-18-2009, 07:47 PM
There is still some of this effect, but it is much reduced.

I agree that the idle drift is very annoying. Especially when you know it is not necessary.

How much is too much? I'm not convinced that it is not normal.

Some people notice things like that and some don't. JWR says he has no noticeable change; you still have some. Mine now starts fine and runs fine and, if I leave the idle adjustment in that one exact spot, it doesn't stall or race and the idle speed doesn't hunt around.......it just steadilly increases over a half hour or so of more or less steady riding until it is several hundred RPMs higher than it started out. It has always been that way.

Guess we need more votes. Please call 1-800-my gz sucks :shocked:

alanmcorcoran
03-18-2009, 08:02 PM
I don't have any tach measuring capability, so I'm going by "feel." My idle stays pretty low even after warming up, possibly lower than you might have even recommended. Because the engine is so tinny sounding, I wouldn't call it a Thump-Thump so much as a Tink-tink-tink-tink. But it ain't stalling and that's fine with me.

To be blunt, after riding a big displacement bike, it's difficult for me to view the GZ as a serious motorcycle. I know by many measures it is, but, the thing is so small and works so hard to go 55 that I've come to see it as a sort of an eccentric novelty. It gets me back and forth to work just fine, and with hardly any fuel, and it's light as a feather, (and cheap to insure!) but I think the idea of doing a multi-state trip with it requires a certain degree of dogged eccentricity.

alantf
03-18-2009, 08:32 PM
Does anybody have a GZ where the idle does NOT vary a lot from cold to hot??

Yes, but mine is a Spanish spec. I'm convinced that the problem is the politically correct, tree hugger, bullshit, that is currently affecting every facet of everyday life.
I'm 62. I've smoked, eaten fatty food, drunk my share of beer & whisky,Lived life to the full, & I'm still fine. I object to being told what to do by adolescent, homo, save the whale, vegetarian, assholes.
Over here the air is monitored in every city, & the results published, so that even the "bleeding hearts" can have a say, & the results show that the air is fine, without having to go to the extremes that seem to prevail in America (& to some extent in England) The Spanish way is "hey man, do your own thing)
What I've read on this site about the extra bits on American bikes makes me wonder why the "touchy, feely" brain dead morons weren't put down at birth. Thing have happened over the millenniums, & we're still here. The emission controls are just a way of ensuring that the government kowtow to the easily led, so that they get re-elected.

Phew ............ Glad to get that off my chest, but that's the way I feel!

alantf
03-18-2009, 08:33 PM
Does anybody have a GZ where the idle does NOT vary a lot from cold to hot??

Yes, but mine is a Spanish spec. I'm convinced that the problem is the politically correct, tree hugger, bullshit, that is currently affecting every facet of everyday life.
I'm 62. I've smoked, eaten fatty food, drunk my share of beer & whisky,Lived life to the full, & I'm still fine. I object to being told what to do by adolescent, homo, save the whale, vegetarian, assholes.
Over here the air is monitored in every city, & the results published, so that even the "bleeding hearts" can have a say, & the results show that the air is fine, without having to go to the extremes that seem to prevail in America (& to some extent in England) The Spanish way is "hey man, do your own thing)
What I've read on this site about the extra bits on American bikes makes me wonder why the "touchy, feely" brain dead morons weren't put down at birth. Thing have happened over the millenniums, & we're still here. The emission controls are just a way of ensuring that the government kowtow to the easily led, so that they get re-elected.

Phew ............ Glad to get that off my chest, but that's the way I feel!

alantf
03-18-2009, 08:41 PM
Hey, I don't know what happened there! I must have done something wrong since it's come up twice. Sorry about that - I'll see it doesn't happen again!

alanmcorcoran
03-18-2009, 09:00 PM
Sorry to disagree, but when I first moved to Southern California, the air was chewable. It still kills a lot of people before their time, but it's much better, thanks to the efforts of the homo vegetarians.

If you have traveled much in the Far East (such as Manila or the cola mining region of China) you can see what happens when the irresponsible get to "live life to the fullest." See also, Chernobyll.

We may be still here, but more than half of us have arrived in the last 40 years, and will be joined by another 3 billion by 2150. We will probably run out of drinkable water first. That'll be fun.

I don't like authority either, but I also don't like people playing loud music next door all night, having 13 dogs barking at all hours, parking pieces of shit cars on their front lawns and honking their horns to summon their girlfriends. Noise pollution annoys me just as much as air pollution and I'm against it.

mrlmd1
03-18-2009, 09:47 PM
My bike is a '99 and runs like a fine watch. If it's cold, I use the "choke" for starting, it starts within 1-2 seconds always, and of course it idles fast when the choke's on. As I sit on it, putting on my helmet and gloves, I turn it down real quickly to a "reasonable" slightly fast speed and within maybe one minute it's almost off. It is off by the time I reach the end of the block (less than a 1/4 mi) and my bike never stalls or misfires or runs funny.
It's hard to read some of these posts. 90% or more of the problems are had by 5% of the members on here. A little knowledge or expertise can be a dangerous thing. If you know what you are doing or how to analyze the problem and go stepwise to solve it, good. But I think many people on here are in over their heads, looking for advice or instructions on how to fix something they have no clue about. It's one thing to ask for advice in tackling a problem, it's another thing to be willing to take it to the shop to fix it when it needs to go, and you have too be smart enough to know the difference.

music man
03-18-2009, 10:00 PM
It's one thing to ask for advice in tackling a problem, it's another thing to be willing to take it to the shop to fix it when it needs to go, and you have too be smart enough to know the difference.


Amen Brother Mrlmd1.

Easy Rider
03-18-2009, 10:02 PM
but I think the idea of doing a multi-state trip with it requires a certain degree of dogged eccentricity.

Yes and your point IS ???

Just riding a bike takes "a certain degree of dogged eccentricity".

Or maybe we should talk about riding a bicycle in an urban environment ? :poke2:

That message ended up sounding very close to GZ bashing. :skull:

BTW, if you think your idle is too low, then it probably IS. Now that you have your basic problem solved you CAN turn it up a bit. :roll:

Easy Rider
03-18-2009, 10:07 PM
Phew ............ Glad to get that off my chest, but that's the way I feel!

Which just goes to prove that a person is largely shaped by his environment.

Spend a week or so in metro LA in the late summer and, even WITH the "waco environmental controls", you might change your mind.

It is possible to build things that work right AND don't polute....as much.

Easy Rider
03-18-2009, 10:10 PM
It's one thing to ask for advice in tackling a problem, it's another thing to be willing to take it to the shop to fix it when it needs to go, and you have too be smart enough to know the difference.


Amen Brother Mrlmd1.

And when you take it to the Zuki shop and it comes back WORSE than it went in........then what do you recommend ?? :popcorn:

mrlmd1
03-18-2009, 10:16 PM
Easy wrote: "BTW, if you think your idle is too low, then it probably IS. Now that you have your basic problem solved you CAN turn it up a bit. :roll:"

Why does he think it's too slow? Does he know what it's supposed to be? What it's supposed to sound like? It's not stalling anymore. Why screw with it? That's what got him into trouble in the first place. Don't you think the shop set it right? That's another time fixing something that ain't broke, and then it won't work right, and it starts all over. :??: :poke2:

Easy Rider
03-18-2009, 10:31 PM
That's what got him into trouble in the first place.

Oh Geeeezzz......give me a break. :skull:

Adjusting the idle speed is NOT what "got him in trouble" in the first place. :crazy:

As it turns out, he may not have done ANYTHING to contribute to the problem.
(Except maybe for filling the gas tank too full.)

So.........we have had this discussion before. If the idle is too low, so is the oil pressure......which IS a problem. It also makes starting out in first a little more tricky. It also makes shifting more jerky, down shifting in particular.

In summary: There are lots of reasons to NOT run the bike with a low idle speed and there is NO reason not to tweek it up a tad. That IS why they put a big white adjustment knob on there, after all.

:poke2:

mrlmd1
03-18-2009, 11:31 PM
ER - I have to differ with you on this, and yank your chain a little.
AC said his idle speed was lower now than what he remembered before, but it's running fine and doesn't stall. Without a tach or some way to measure the rpm, you are relying on HIS perception of what the idle speed should be, which may be quite inaccurate. It might be set to the correct rpm by the shop. All of what you said may be true but not applicable to AC now. He's not stalling, not complaining of difficulty starting out in 1st gear, no problem with shifting, but you are relying on his perception that the speed is too low (which may be untrue) and telling him to bump up the idle speed with the big white knob? And how much, or how many rpm, is a tad? And how is that measured?
I don't buy that, at least without knowing what the idle rpm is, if he's not having any problems. Maybe now he's used to hearing the Strat which I'm sure has a totally different idle sound than the GZ, but why screw with it if it's running perfectly fine? Is a little higher idle speed better? Then why aren't they recommended to be set that way, and wouldn't even a little more be better still? :??: O_o

And, to your previous question - if it comes back worse, you bring it back again, just like AC did, and again, until it gets fixed to your satisfaction. Or complain to the manufacturer, then you'll get it fixed.

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 12:06 AM
ER - I have to differ with you on this, and yank your chain a little.


Yank all you want but I must tell you that you are getting under my skin just a bit.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that Alan is TOTALLY incompetent. While it might be fun to accuse him of that, I think it is FAR from the truth.

He described his idle speed such that he can hear and DISTINGUISH each time the cylinder fires.
That is a good indication that the idle speed is too low.......or do you think his hearing is bad too ??

Regardless of what the recommended idle speed is, a modern gas engine should never idle so slow that you can HEAR each individual power stroke. At an absolute minimum, it should idle fast enough that the operation is smooth and the only clunking or ticking is coming from the valves or the muffler.

Now, you can believe that or not; at the moment I don't care.

Alan will do what he wants and thinks is right and you and I arguing about what he does or does not do is really an exercise in futility. :skull:

alanmcorcoran
03-19-2009, 02:22 AM
That message ended up sounding very close to GZ bashing.

Yeah, a little bit. Guilty as charged. Honest though.

Patrick? Sarris? Anybody else riding a GZ along with something a lot bigger? Am I crazy or do you feel just a teensy silly on the Suzi? I'm 5'11" which I thought was sort of average height until I got on here and heard all the pants complaints. Those experienced riders that are 6'2" must be very secure.

Don't mean I'm going to stop riding it. I look a lot sillier on the Trek bent over the bars sportin' my Spandex diaper pants.

alanmcorcoran
03-19-2009, 02:49 AM
1. You seem to be operating under the assumption that Alan is TOTALLY incompetent.
1. I have learned a few things on here and under the bike, but I remain pretty ignorant of all but the basics. If I was retired and had fewer distractions, I'd probably be more adventurous with the mechanics and learn me up a bit on the manual and such. There's still time. I have decided I will have to Re-Re-Re-Re-F*ck with my windshield, so I'm getting a black belt in that thing. Big deal.
2. While it might be fun to accuse him of that, I think it is FAR from the truth.
2. Thanks. I am actually known for my competence. Just not with motorcycles.
3. He described his idle speed such that he can hear and DISTINGUISH each time the cylinder fires.
That is a good indication that the idle speed is too low.......or do you think his hearing is bad too ??

Regardless of what the recommended idle speed is, a modern gas engine should never idle so slow that you can HEAR each individual power stroke. At an absolute minimum, it should idle fast enough that the operation is smooth and the only clunking or ticking is coming from the valves or the muffler.
3. I get your point, but I don't believe it is too low. It's smooth and I don't have the troubles described (it's actually running really fantastic right now. I love it.) My hearing is fading with age but I listen with lifelong amateur musician ears so I may be over reporting. The exact sound tends to vary a bit anyway, and effing with the windsheild and switching to a 3/4 helmet for commuting has effected the way it sounds a lot. I typically wear earplugs on the Strat (and yes, you are right, it idles a bit higher.)
4. Alan will do what he wants and thinks is right and you and I arguing about what he does or does not do is really an exercise in futility.
4. True that. But I do listen (and sometimes even follow) some of the advice. The pissing contests are kind of entertaining too.

I reall wish Mike the service guy had been there the day I picked up the bike the last time. I missed the opportunity of a lifetime to learn the secret of fine tuning the Suzi. Maybe when I get new brakes.

Water Warrior 2
03-19-2009, 04:17 AM
alantf, I hear you and agree for the most part. Sadly we grew up in a different world but we can't turn back time.

alantf
03-19-2009, 06:04 AM
or the cola mining region of China

Don't tell Pepsi that that's how they do it over there.

alantf
03-19-2009, 07:41 AM
when I first moved to Southern California, the air was chewable.

I hear what you're saying, but what I'm trying to say is :-
Over here, it's accepted that this little island is one of the most densely populated (traffic wise) places on earth. O.k., the newer cars run on unleaded, but that's because all the manufacturers make engines like that, nowadays. The climate's kind to the older cars over here, and there's an awful lot of them on the roads. They all use leaded petrol, which is freely available at all the pumps.
Like I said, they monitor the air in all the bigger cities, & the results are fine, without the need to make the mixture on my bike so week as to make it almost useless, & without strap on cannisters, & this mysterious "emission control" that your so called mechanics played about with.
I know that there have to be benefits in controlling emissions, but from personal experience you'll never convince me that 90% isn't just POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD.

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 10:30 AM
I get your point, but I don't believe it is too low.

Make up your ficking mind, OK?
First it was, now it isn't. :??:
:skull:

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 10:36 AM
I know that there have to be benefits in controlling emissions, but from personal experience you'll never convince me that 90% isn't just POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD.

Well, that's pretty sad.

Lead is POISON. The tailpipes where you live are spewing poison all the time.
You are letting emotion over-ride logic.......exactly what you are accusing the PC crowd of doing !!! :shocked:

Human beings are basically stupid. Even a dog knows not to crap where he sleeps.

mrlmd1
03-19-2009, 10:42 AM
I get your point, but I don't believe it is too low.

Make up your ficking mind, OK?
First it was, now it isn't. :??:
:skull:

I guess I yanked a little too hard, sorry, but who's getting under your skin now? And I am not saying he is totally IMCOMPETENT, maybe like a lot of us a little ignorant (means lack of knowledge, not stupid), sometimes in over his head. But this is where we come for information to make those decisions.
Let's call an end to this and have ? peace again. :)

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 10:57 AM
Let's call an end to this and have ? peace again. :)

Deep breath. Ooooommmmmmmm !!!! :tup:

alantf
03-19-2009, 11:28 AM
Lead is POISON. The tailpipes where you live are spewing poison all the time.


So how come the monitoring (& the results are freely available to anyone who wants them, as well as being published in a shortened version in the newspapers) shows up as acceptable? Also, there's no problem with breathing over here. There's certainly none of the "chewable" air that Alan mentioned. If I had the slightest suspicion that there was anything at all wrong with the quality of the air I would be up there on the bandwagon with the greens, like a shot, but, in all honesty, the air is fine.
I think that one of the main problems in America (& it seems to be spreading to other countries) is litigation. Everybody seems to want to cover every eventuality, so they can't be sued. "Hell. yes! Lets put a little cannister on the bikes. It might only remove one thousandth percent of the pollution, but, hey, we'll look like the good guys"
Cutting down on pollution is one thing. Going completely over the top is another issue completely.

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 11:52 AM
Lead is POISON. The tailpipes where you live are spewing poison all the time.


So how come the monitoring (& the results are freely available to anyone who wants them, as well as being published in a shortened version in the newspapers) shows up as acceptable?

So what are they monitoring and exactly what are they looking for?

Tailpipe emissions pollute not only the air but water,the earth, plants, animals, etc. The lead ends up in EVERYTHING and stays there for a LONG time. Has your country banned mercury thermometers (and other consumer devices) yet? How about DDT?

This discussion is going WAY too far for this forum but since we are being somewhat candid about our feelings, try this one on for size:
I think maybe all the lead spewed into the atmosphere over the last 90 years or so is having a cumulative affect on our brains.......and making us all collectively more stupid. Something sure is doing it. :shocked:

I quit.......before I get in (more) trouble. :biggrin:

alantf
03-19-2009, 01:11 PM
Hey easy,
O.k., no more arguments. I'm not knocking anyone who wants a better world.
Just do something for me, if you've got a few moments to spare, then you'll see how much the TinerfeƱos care about the Island. Go to www.secret-tenerife.com/ (http://www.secret-tenerife.com/) This is like a kind of news letter, & you'll see the campaigns going on, against the building of an industrial port in Granadilla (a little fishing village), ecological issues, and support for protected species, etc.

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 01:29 PM
This is like a kind of news letter, & you'll see the campaigns going on, against the building of an industrial port in Granadilla (a little fishing village), ecological issues, and support for protected species, etc.

So now I'm confused. Are you for or against those kinds of initiatives? If you agree with those things, how can you also complain about efforts to limit the pollution from cars....and other things industrial ?? and apparently think it is alright to still spew lead into the air ??

Something is wrong with this picture. :??:

AND to get back to the original subject.........it it becoming pretty obvioius that something on my bike is "broken" and my complaint is not the result of misplaced engineering in an attempt to reduce tailpipe emissions. Lots of others do not have the same complaint. I will get it fixed eventually.

alanmcorcoran
03-19-2009, 01:42 PM
I get your point, but I don't believe it is too low.

Make up your ficking mind, OK?
First it was, now it isn't. :??:
:skull:

I should have said it was too low by your standards, or for your circumstances. If it had been this low before, I wouldn't have been able to get past any stop signs or traffic lights without stalling.

alantf
03-19-2009, 01:59 PM
So now I'm confused. Are you for or against those kinds of initiatives?

What I'm trying to say is - disregarding my feelings - if there was a problem regarding air purity, or lead pollution,the TinerfeƱos would raise such a fuss that you'd hear them in Madrid.

Regarding the bike problems, I still think that the relatively week mixture (to meet American emmission laws (as has been pointed out before)) has something to do with the problems that seem to be restricted to American GZs. I'm not saying that this is the total problem, but I'm sure it contributes.

music man
03-19-2009, 03:02 PM
That message ended up sounding very close to GZ bashing.

Yeah, a little bit. Guilty as charged. Honest though.

Patrick? Sarris? Anybody else riding a GZ along with something a lot bigger? Am I crazy or do you feel just a teensy silly on the Suzi? I'm 5'11" which I thought was sort of average height until I got on here and heard all the pants complaints. Those experienced riders that are 6'2" must be very secure.



The Reason YOU feel that way is the same reason you didn't just get a bigger bike, you got one of the BIGGEST bikes out there, because you worry that OTHER PEOPLE are gonna think you are silly looking riding a little GZ. Its called keeping up with, or in your case, outdoing the Jone's. Now don't get me wrong I understand why people get bigger bikes than the GZ, I would probably be more comfortable room and power wise on a bigger bike, but that doesn't mean that I am going to let some silly macho tradition of "you have to have the biggest bike on the planet or you not a man" stop me from enjoying myself on the GZ. I personally think you have to be more of a man to ride a small motorcycle, not because what everyone thinks, but because it takes a hell of a lot more endurance and mental toughness to ride the GZ hundreds of miles than it does a freakin' Hummer on two wheels.

I don't feel silly and I don't give a rats f@#king ass if anyone else thinks I am silly looking on it, and I am 6'1" 200 pounds. You felt that way about the GZ long before you got the StratoTank. So if and when I do get a bigger bike (which I probably will) the one I get won't be dictated by how I think people perceive me on the GZ.


P.S. My apologies in advance to Dupo and Patrick if this starts a war, but you know, coming on the GZ site and kinda bashing the Idea of riding a GZ (and this is not the first time by the way) is probably not a Good thing (no matter how much of your money you donate to said site), and considering I OWN a GZ I really didn't like it. And just for the record, Dupo AND Patrick, and a lot of other people on this site own other bikes besides the GZ, and I have never once heard any of them put down the Idea of riding a GZ.

music man
03-19-2009, 03:48 PM
To be blunt, after riding a big displacement bike, it's difficult for me to view the GZ as a serious motorcycle. I know by many measures it is, but, the thing is so small and works so hard to go 55 that I've come to see it as a sort of an eccentric novelty.

alanmcorcoran
03-19-2009, 04:24 PM
Music, I posted a lengthy semi apology but it got lost when I submitted it. I can't recapture it, but it boiled down to:
1) I was sincere when I said the GZ feels funny when I get back on it.
2) I understand the practicality of the bike and its appeal to those that are riding mainly for practicality. I'm more of a "fun" rider.
3) I shouldn't have asked Patrick or Sarris to bail me out.

Sorry.

alantf
03-19-2009, 04:31 PM
and works so hard to go 55

What, even after you've got it back from the shop. You said it was fine now. Certainly doesn't seem like it to me.

music man
03-19-2009, 05:05 PM
Music, I posted a lengthy semi apology but it got lost when I submitted it. I can't recapture it, but it boiled down to:
1) I was sincere when I said the GZ feels funny when I get back on it.
2) I understand the practicality of the bike and its appeal to those that are riding mainly for practicality. I'm more of a "fun" rider.
3) I shouldn't have asked Patrick or Sarris to bail me out.

Sorry.

I am sure it does feel "funny" when you get back on it, after being on Bigfoot (I mean the Stratoliner) but that is not really what you said, and 2, are you trying to say that the GZ is not fun to ride, because I have had more "fun" on it than I have had in a long time (and if it wasn't fun, you would have rode it for a month and quit riding motorcycles all together. It just doesn't seem appropriate to say that kind of thing, it would be like getting on a homosexual community website (that you are a member of, and a sponsor of) and posting "don't you feel silly being gay".

But anyways, I am sorry I hijacked this thread, and I will get off my soapbox now.

alanmcorcoran
03-19-2009, 05:53 PM
What, even after you've got it back from the shop. You said it was fine now. Certainly doesn't seem like it to me.

I guess I deserve all of this. If anyone is still interested, here is an explanation:

The GZ IS running fine. As good or better than ever. And I am enjoying it much more than when it was stalling at every stoplight. But I am up through fifth gear by the time I hit forty and have to wind it up into the whiny end of the RPM's to get to 55. 65 is generally doable given a flat stretch and a speedo crouch, but 70-75 almosts merits a call to the trade press. I basically ride it WTFO near 100% of the time.

The Strat can hit 70 in third gear if you want. Normally, I'm in fifth, but the RPM's are a leisurely 2800 or so. It is way more stable on California roads, I feel a lot safer in the California wind, and it handles the California speeds (basically 85 until recent financially motivated crackdown) without any strain. I know, I know - this is a GZ site and the content should be mainly about the GZ. The only reason I mention it is that I think a lot of people on here ARE planning on going bigger once they get some experience on the GZ and I was lucky to be able to "test drive" the bike I bought before I bought it. Not sure how it is in the rest of the country, but it seemed like all I coud do untl I found the rental place was to read, look and sit. No riding!

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 06:03 PM
have to wind it up into the whiny end of the RPM's to get to 55.

In 5th gear ???

That's another problem.......a simple slip of the proverbial pencil takes the discussion off in an entirely wrong direction. Being a writer, maybe you need an editor to check your posts before you hit "Submit" !! :poke2: :crackup

So......once again life comes full circle. Didn't you pop in here a time or two BEFORE you got the GZ ?? It seems I remember telling you that it probably was NOT a good choice for your particular urban situation; now you agree.

I think I told you that the Strat was likely too BIG too.....but it looks like you might skate by on that one !! :biggrin:

alanmcorcoran
03-19-2009, 06:21 PM
I meant fifth gear and 55. What's the RPM's on a GZ in fifth at 55?

(I agree, I am a little sloppy with my typing and I should edit more.)

I may have read some of this site before I got the GZ, but I thought my first post was "My first nine miles", which, of course, would have to have come after I got the GZ. (My memory is pretty crappy, I don't trust it myself.) But, my intention with the GZ, from the get go, was to get something small to learn on so I didn't die right away, and, after 3000 miles, if I was A) still alive, and B) still enjoying it, get something bigger.

Music Man accused of me of being (insecurely) macho, and intimated that's why I went with the Strat. I can't deny that I have many moments of anxiety and, even fear, but the reason I went with the Strat is the same reason I went with a Suburban when I got an SUV and a Steinway piano when I could afford it. I know that when I get something less than what I consider ideal for me, I inevitably regret it, and it takes some of the fun out of it. I'm not crazy in this regard (I don't drive a Ferrari or anything) but I'm pretty consistent. I can't always afford what I want right away, but when I can, I go for it. I paid an obscene amount for my Trek 5200 bicycle, but, after I got over the first few hours of nausea, I never regretted it.

I went from having only 3K on the GZ directly to The Beast. The Beast is not perfect, but I swear, I am pretty sure if any of you prudent naysayers climbed on it and pointed it down the highway, you would agree that it is a blast to ride.

mrlmd1
03-19-2009, 06:36 PM
And just why do you hit 5th gear at 40 mph, especially if you're planning to get up to 65? I bet you don't drive a stick shift car that way. Fifth gear has very little torque and it will take forever to get to 65 going from 40 to 65 in 5th, and be harder on the engine, and much more fuel inefficient, than winding it up through the gear range into higher rpms all the way. That's more of a problem with riding style than with the bike, as it's not designed to do what you want it to do. Maybe you should be in 3rd at that speed, accelerating, not in 5th. Or if you are "cruising" at 40mph in 5th, then drop down at least into 4th so you can accelerate. Don't blame the bike for any shortcomings if you drive it like that. You seem to marvel how the Strat can hit 70 in 3rd so you are winding that up. Treat the GZ the same, use the engine as it was designed to be used.
We can understand the difference in riding the 2 bikes, but they are 2 different machines designed for 2 different purposes and really can't be compared when you are talking about the same thing. Each was designed for a different goal so keep that in mind when you diss one or the other. :retard: :shocked:

Your post above came on just before I submitted this, but you catch my drift anyway.

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 07:40 PM
I meant fifth gear and 55. What's the RPM's on a GZ in fifth at 55?


I don't know for sure but it is nowhere near redline......which occurs, I believe, about 80.....if you can get it there.
I thought you had gotten over that fear of rev'ing it too high; guess not. :roll:

Somebody with a tach. has posted a chart on here somewhere.

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 07:49 PM
The Beast is not perfect, but I swear, I am pretty sure if any of you prudent naysayers climbed on it and pointed it down the highway, you would agree that it is a blast to ride.

I'll agree if you make that read "most".

Some of us, for whatever reason(s), just won't ever be comfortable on a bike that size.
Hell, I wouldn't even be here had I not traded in a (no doubt "better") 450 pound bike with 4X the HP on the little 300 pound one that will barely do 70.

I got to the point where I wasn't having fun on the I-4 standard anymore because it made me "nervous" just to climb on it. It make me nervous just LOOKING at bikes in the "beast" category........although I would like a shot at the new V-Max just ONCE......and the new "race inspired" Sportsters look pretty sweet. The local shop has one in flat black; WAY cool.

alanmcorcoran
03-19-2009, 08:14 PM
Good point. I haven't had any accidents yet on either bike, aside from the parking lot kerfluffle with the Strat. I may be singing a different tune after I resurface part of the 91 with my thigh skin.

I can wholeheartedly agree that I have greater confidence on the GZ on the side roads. I think part of our differences can be attributed to the fact that it's much more likely out here that you are going to frequently find yourself on freeways whether you like it or not, even if it is just to get to the "cool" country road you want to ride on. You'll note that OC Hoosier, Moedad and Busyweb all went bigger in a fairly short time.

I am 100% better with the GZ on the freeway from whence I started, but I still only use (the freeway with the GZ) when I'm taking to the dealer.

Sarris
03-19-2009, 09:36 PM
Alan; I'm 6'-1", 280 lbs. and only one person has asked me (in jest) if I had another GZ for my other ass cheek. If you FEEL uncomfortable you'll LOOK uncomfortable.

Most seem interested and astonished that it's "only" a 250.

The GZ is what it is. Kinda like girlz, they come in different shapes and sizes, you want to ride them all, some do ride better than others, but all are fun to ride none the less.

I appreciated both.

:2tup:

Easy Rider
03-19-2009, 10:06 PM
Alan; I'm 6'-1", 280 lbs. and only one person has asked me (in jest) if I had another GZ for my other ass cheek.

:lol: :biggrin: :crackup :haha2:




Well........do you ??? :shocked: :roll: :poke2:

5th_bike
03-20-2009, 12:46 AM
Somebody with a tach. has posted a chart on here somewhere.
That was Jaime, here is his table:


http://www.postimage.org/aV24fx7r.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV24fx7r)

alanmcorcoran
03-20-2009, 01:49 AM
Thanks for the chart, 5th. I've think it's best to restrain myself (from here on out anyway) to the original topic on this thread so as not to create further unnecessary and unproductive riling.

Easy Rider
04-02-2009, 05:28 PM
Carb makes the most sense to me.

NOW......the remaining question IS: Does anybody have a GZ where the idle does NOT vary a lot from cold to hot??

The answer is YES....and now I have one too. :)

Berryman's B12 Chemtool does wonders......expecially if you run some into the bowl full strength while you are putting a fuel filter into the gas line !!! :shocked:

The result was immediate and dramatic; ran the bike a bit, let it sit for 10 minutes and then drained it out. Now I have B-12 in the gas and it is running MUCH better. Back to 2-1/2 turns on the idle mixture screw and it runs MUCH better when cold, choke or no (choke required for only a few minutes like I remembered from a year ago).

After I get through this tankful with cleaner, I'll try to adjust the mixture screw again but I'm sure that 95% of my problem is solved.

Moral of the story: Use a good carb cleaner at the recommended rate at least twice a year. :tup:

First sign that you aren't doing it often enough (or you got some bad gas) is that the idle speed will be slow and erratic......or you have to leave the choke on longer than normal.

alanmcorcoran
04-02-2009, 08:05 PM
FYI, not sure if it is related, but on a purely unscientific basis I believe my gas mileage has gone back up. In the early days, I could get to 170-180 before I had to switch to reserve. Then, it dropped down to 140 when I had my stalling issues. I'm not sure what i am back up to, but I was well past 150 when I filled up last (hadn't got to reserve yet...)

Easy Rider
04-02-2009, 09:23 PM
FYI, not sure if it is related, but on a purely unscientific basis I believe my gas mileage has gone back up.

Not surprising really. You were leaving the choke on LONGER, were you not ??

alanmcorcoran
04-03-2009, 02:23 AM
Yeah, on at least partially for about the first ten minutes. Which, on many days, was about how long it took me to get to work.