Reasons for poor gas mileage?

[Rick]

Ok, I searched to the best of my ability on this topic but can't find a whole lot of info, so here goes: When I got my GZ about 6 months ago, I was averaging about 65 mpg give or take a couple. Now I'm down to 56-58 regularly. I know that's not a huge difference, but with other people reporting 65-70 and more, I'm wondering what the problem might be. Thanks in advance for your input.

[Moedad]

Couple of thoughts.

Thought One: how's the air pressure in your tires?

Thought Two: now that you're used to the GZ, maybe you're riding it with more throttle? More highway riding perhaps?

[alanmcorcoran]

My mileage dropped a lot, too, after about 2500 miles. In the beginning I was running out at close to 180, now it's more like 140.

I think some of it was higher revving, but I think also there is something up with the carburetor. Mine does not run as evenly as it did when new and for reasons that remain unknown to me, the idling speed drifts all over the map during the first 15 minutes of riding. I have to keep it up higher than I like to avoid having it drift too low (and stall out.) Now it's too fast much of the time, but it doesn't stall at the lights anymore. Since it only takes me about 15 minutes to get to work, it just starts to settle down as I'm shutting it off.

[Easy Rider]

When I got my GZ about 6 months ago, I was averaging about 65 mpg give or take a couple. Now I'm down to 56-58 regularly

Are you in one of the areas where they use ethanol blend ONLY in the winter months ??
That might account for the small difference you are seeing.
Riding it just a little harder might account for some of the difference too.

I get about 65 in the summer, with ethanol, but I ride pretty much like an old fart........which I AM! :biggrin:

[JWR]

This is my normal ave.

http://www.postimage.org/aV18spsJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV18spsJ)

[Rick]

Thanks for the responses. I think more aggressive riding definitely has something to do with it. As far as I know we just have plain ol' gas year around, no ethanol, so I don't think that's a factor, but I could be wrong. I just checked the tires a few weeks ago, but it's gotten colder since then, maybe it's time to check 'em again. Although I just had a flat fixed up front so that one should be correctly inflated. Guess it's time to back off the throttle and ride like I drive my truck - like an old lady!

[jonathan180iq]

Alan,
Have you ever had your valves adjusted?

If your idle speed is set correctly when warm and you are getting a rough cold idle for that long a time period, I'd check into that.

[mrlmd1]

Let me be the first, again, to "WELCOME BACK JONATHAN". Where you been, away for so long? :)

[jonathan180iq]

Just dealing with other things.

I still float around here to see what's going on. The winter usually scares people away from the motorcycle forums anyway, so I wasn't exactly lighting a fire under my rear to check out the site too often.

My Saab has needed some work recently which let me spend some more quality time with the scooter which, in turn, gave me a craving for some more two-wheeled motoring conversation.

[mrlmd1]

You freezing your butt off in Ga. now on the scooter? Do you get any blockage of wind from the "fairing" on the front?

[alanmcorcoran]

Alan,
Have you ever had your valves adjusted?

If your idle speed is set correctly when warm and you are getting a rough cold idle for that long a time period, I'd check into that.

I don't think they did that at the 3K checkup (wasn't listed on my receipt.) I have to take the Strat in for the 600 mile service (it's a tad over that already) and then I'll look into the valve adjustment.

[jonathan180iq]

Yeah, it's flippin' cold down here.
When the car crapped out on me a few days ago, I wasn't left with any other option but the scoot. It's not that big of a deal. I went without a car for most of last year. But I bought the Saab because I was tired of getting wet and then riding in sub 40 temperatures.

I've since taken care of the problem and I managed to coax the Saab into work this morning. All she needed was some new fuses and a new battery.
(For those keeping up, I also finally got the Midget towed over to the house last weekend. She's maybe $500 dollars away from being on the road again.)

[mrlmd1]

You'll probably freeze your ass off in that too.

[jonathan180iq]

Yeah, it doesn't have a heater.
My wife hates it but I think it's awesome.

[mrlmd1]

Just don't have a collision with a motorcycle - you might get hurt in the Midget.
But they are pretty fun to drive around a nice twisty road, especially with the top down in the Summer.

[jonathan180iq]

Oh, you were talking about the Midget.
I thought we were talking about Saab. My wife loves the Midget and is keeping me motivated to finish restoring it.

[mrlmd1]

I can't believe the Saab has no heater - a car from Sweden? You josh. I was talking about the Midget and I thought you said it (the Midget) didn't have a heater and that your wife hated IT, not the Saab. Ambiguous, my mistake. Does the Midget have a heater or just the engine heat comes through the firewall?

[alanmcorcoran]

Alan,
Have you ever had your valves adjusted?

If your idle speed is set correctly when warm and you are getting a rough cold idle for that long a time period, I'd check into that.

Service manager called me back and claimed they DID do valve adjustments but "didn't charge me for it." (I'm skeptical, but that's just my nature.) He did say I should not be riding it with the choke on at all as that can lead to fouled plugs - and some of the symptoms I am having. You guys think a non-mechanic can check for a fouled plug without making matters a lot worse? I am going to try warming up the bike a little more and riding it with the choke off and leaving the "hot" idle down where it is smooth but too high and see if I can shake the stalling. The real problem is the inconsistency of the idle. It drifts down... down... dow.. pffft. Also, seems to not likegoing from high rev to stopped (at a stop sign f'rinstance.)

If that doesn't work, I'm taking it back in for a re-cleaning of the carb and a re-check of the fuel path from tank to piston.

[patrick_777]

You guys think a non-mechanic can check for a fouled plug without making matters a lot worse?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1715 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1715)

[mr. softie]

Nice how-to on plug removal Patrick!!

Do this with a cool engine. Clean around the spark plug with compressed air etc. Take out the plug and see if it looks "clean". It should be light brown if anything. Check the gap while you have it out. Or better yet put a new plug properly gapped in to rule out a bad plug. Running rich can foul the plug and it will look blackish or brown with deposits. Running rich can be caused by running with enrichment on or a dirty/clogged air intake. Check for obstructions (nest?) in air intake.

here is a site that has a good review of how to read plugs.

http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html

Spark plugs are available in different heat ranges for different situations. I'd recommend putting a new plug in and not riding with the enrichment on any more than you have to, and see what transpires.

Another reason for declining fuel economy can be dragging brakes, so check them out as well.

[Easy Rider]

1) Service manager called me back and claimed they DID do valve adjustments but "didn't charge me for it."
2) He did say I should not be riding it with the choke on at all as that can lead to fouled plugs - and some of the symptoms I am having.

So it won't RUN without the effing choke; what the hell are you supposed to do ??

1) B.S. The charge for that alone is usually around $100. I'm sure they routinely give away hundred dollar bills.

2) Total bullshit. When you foul the plug on a single cylinder bike.......it stops running. Is he also telling you that they did NOT check the plug when they had it.......or that it fouled again before you made it off their lot ???

Is there another Suzuki dealer within reasonable distance from you?
This one sounds totally incompetent.

[alanmcorcoran]

Easy,

This is why I don't like things that need to be serviced. You can imagine the thoughts that occur to me when they follow up this sort of advice with, "and if it's still not working right, bring it back in and we'll take another look at it..."

[mr. softie]

Alan, a spark plug that is beginning to foul will provide less than optimal performance, leading to hesitation, rough/low idle, decreased fuel economy etc. This is more immediately apparent on a single cylinder engine than on a multi perhaps. If you are adding enrichment through use of the "choke" in order to compensate for these symptoms you may be fouling the plug worse, and eventually the engine will stop running altogether. If the plug is not badly fouled it may clear up by riding at speed for a while. The plug is easy to check and would be the first thing I'd check given your bikes symptoms. Spark plugs can break down for not so obvious reasons like improper gap, a crack in the insulator, etc and that's why I suggested just throwing a new plug in it as a fist step.

Of course if the plug is looking good I would check to see you are getting a healthy spark, and that your intake connections are unrestricted and tight. Make sure the stopper plug is still in the end of the tube coming out the bottom of the airbox, and that clamps etc are tight, as any leak at all could be causing the bike to run lean (crappy idle etc.) and needing a richer mixture to compensate.

Keep us posted and let us know if you resolve the problem k?

[alanmcorcoran]

I appreciate all the info. Whether I act on any of it is a different story. My usual approach to problems that I don't feel qualified to solve is first to ignore them and hope they go away. (Sometimes this actually works!) When that doesn't work, I either suck it up and make a run at fixing it myself, make another effort at locating competent professional help, or buy a new one of whatever. For some things (notebook computers) I usually skip straight to step 3.

I'm going to give the Seafoam a chance to work (Since I got the Strat I'm putting a lot less miles on the GZ and I'm still only a half tank through seafoam tank #1) and continue to experiment with the choke, idle and warm-up. In all likelihood, I'll take it to a shop to have them check the sparkplug. I think the odds of me screwing it up further or not really competently fixing anything that's gone awry are pretty high. If they do find something wrong with it, I'll consider effing with it myself should the scenario repeat itself.

[patrick_777]

I think the odds of me screwing it up further or not really competently fixing anything that's gone awry are pretty high.

It's very unlikely.

[mr. softie]

Alan, I had typed all this before I saw your last post so I'm postiing it anyway. If you can change a light bulb you can change a spark plug!

A spark plug that is beginning to foul will provide less than optimal performance, leading to hesitation, rough/low idle, decreased fuel economy etc. This is more immediately apparent on a single cylinder engine than on a multi perhaps. If you are adding enrichment through use of the "choke" in order to compensate for these symptoms you may be fouling the plug worse, and eventually the engine will stop running altogether. If the plug is not badly fouled it may clear up by riding at speed for a while. The plug is easy to check and would be the first thing I'd check given your bikes symptoms. Spark plugs can break down for not so obvious reasons like improper gap, a crack in the insulator, etc and that's why I suggested just throwing a new plug in it as a fist step.

Of course if the plug is looking good I would check to see you are getting a healthy spark, and that your intake connections are unrestricted and tight. Make sure the stopper plug is still in the end of the tube coming out the bottom of the airbox, and that clamps etc are tight, as any leak at all could be causing the bike to run lean (crappy idle etc.) and needing a richer mixture to compensate.

Keep us posted and let us know if you resolve the problem k?

[Easy Rider]

Of course if the plug is looking good I would check to see you are getting a healthy spark, and that your intake connections are unrestricted and tight. Make sure the stopper plug is still in the end of the tube coming out the bottom of the airbox, and that clamps etc are tight, as any leak at all could be causing the bike to run lean (crappy idle etc.) and needing a richer mixture to compensate.



Spark doesn't usually get better as the engine warms up but..........
The rest of that is an excellent suggestion that I have been meaning to mention but the tired old brain somehow lost track of....... :cry:
Given the symptoms, any shop with even marginal competence should have checked all that while they had it, hence the suggestion to find another shop.
Master Mechanic Alan should be able to check the plug on the tube himself; the other stuff.......maybe not. :biggrin:

[alanmcorcoran]

Guys, I seriously appreciate all your insight. Some confounding things:

1) My problem is strictly pre "full warmup." The bike idles and runs quite nicely after about 15 minutes of 40 mph stop and go. Does the warmup affect the foul plug?
2) The bike only stalls when I'm not moving - Typically slowing to a stop and pulling in the clutch.
3) If the bike does stall - sometimes it is hard to re-start. But it's usually not hard to start absolutely cold with the choke full on.
4) The main thing that bugs me is the idle is all over the map, from racing (2K rpms or more) to stalling. ANd this can happen without touching anything. That's why i thought there might be a thermostat.

Anyway, for right now, I have dropped the idle back down to a reasonable level when it's hot. (Not quite Putt-putt, but a little higher and smoother.) This puts me back in jeopardy when it's not hot. I am going to try letting it warm up with the choke on for a few minutes and then take off with the choke completely off and take my chances. If I think its about to quit, I'll goose it a bit with the throttle. I'll keep this up until I've done two tanks of gas with the seafoam. Then maybe I'll look at the plug. Then I will probably take it into a dealer again, leave it overnight, and make the service manager ride it in the morning. The Strat is getting its 600 mile service (already have over 750 on that one) so maybe I'll take Suzy out for a longish ride and see if that doesn't kick something loose. I'm sure it is psychological, but the power feels down, and I feel like I have to blow something through the carb jet.

The bike runs pretty nice just before I get to work (or home.)

[mr. softie]

1) My problem is strictly pre "full warmup." The bike idles and runs quite nicely after about 15 minutes of 40 mph stop and go. Does the warmup affect the foul plug?
2) The bike only stalls when I'm not moving - Typically slowing to a stop and pulling in the clutch.
3) If the bike does stall - sometimes it is hard to re-start. But it's usually not hard to start absolutely cold with the choke full on.
4) The main thing that bugs me is the idle is all over the map, from racing (2K rpms or more) to stalling. ANd this can happen without touching anything. That's why i thought there might be a thermostat.

The bike runs pretty nice just before I get to work (or home.)

That is a conundrum Alan! Sounds like you have a plan. BTW hows your German? Here is a nice slide show of how a carb works for your amazement: (A picture is worth a thousand words, German or not) Weiter is German for next!
http://www.motorrad.de/v2.0/techniktipps/vergaser/vergaser.html

[alanmcorcoran]

Der photosliden machsensen von der stallenfarten und spitzensparkenhardenstarten.

As you can see, my German is crap. Thanks anyway.

[Easy Rider]

I am going to try letting it warm up with the choke on for a few minutes and then take off with the choke completely off and take my chances.

OK, so you are not going to take my advice and that's OK because you don't REALLY know me but...........

HEED THIS: Don't screw around with it long enough that the warranty expires. You could have a physical defect in the carb. that will require a new one to fix it. No reason for you (or the next owner) having to pay for something like that. Right ??

[alanmcorcoran]

Ok Easy, my plan (with riding with the choke off) didn't work too well. I'm back on leaving it at least halfway on until I'm about half way in to the office (7-10 minutes). As it happens, it was raining when it was time to go home today. Had a couple of problems: Power was pathetic for the first few miles. Also, stalled out on me about a mile in (I wasn't going to sit on it in the rain while it warmed up.) Gave me trouble when I tried to re-start it, coughing and then a loud backfire in the muffler. I got it started soon after and got the rest of the way home without incident. Power got better after it warmed up, but it quit on me once again and I sort of rode the throttle.

I'm going to take it back to the dealer when my Strat is ready to pick up. I'm going to ask the service manager to ride it cold after it sits all night. I'm going to read the manual to see if I can check on the air filter being clogged.

Oh, and Rick? Sorry for hijacking your thread, man. My bad.

[alantf]

A backfire? Now - I'm not a mechanic, but I was always taught that (in a car) a backfire was the sign of the timing being out. Could this happen with a single cylinder engine? Anybody out there able to say "nay" or "yea"?

[jonathan180iq]

We get lots of "backfire" stories on here simply becuase people are running with a rich mixture.

That being said, I still think this is a valve adjustment problem, which could be considered a timing problem, I guess.
If your valves are opening and closing at the wrong time, then your mixture, which is possibly good coming out of the carb, will be exploding and escaping at the wrong time, thowing it off.

Also, Al, checking your air filter takes all of 5 minutes and you only need a phillips head screw driver. You can't mess anything up. It's a simple slide in/slide out contraption.
1: Remove the seat
2: Remove the FAT phillipshead screw that holds the left (passenger side) side cover
3: Remove the 4 screws that hold the filter inside the housing
Installation is the reverse of removal.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1111&p=8098&hilit=uni#p8098 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1111&p=8098&hilit=uni#p8098)


http://www.postimage.org/Pq1pko3A.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1pko3A)

[Easy Rider]

Ok Easy, my plan (with riding with the choke off) didn't work too well.

I'm going to read the manual to see if I can check on the air filter being clogged.



Really? What a surprise !!! :poke2: Not! :roll:

While you are checking the air cleaner, LOOK for loose, cracked or missing stuff around the air box (thing the air cleaner fits INTO) or a loose air filter itself. Also look for the plug on the bottom of the drain hose.

Your symptoms all tend to indicate that some extra air is leaking in somewhere. Believe it or not, that little drain hose can make a significant difference if it is missing, cracked or un-plugged.

It is not very unusual for a bike to be a little erratic and rough when it is raining out; especially if it has been sitting in the rain for a while. Combined with your other problem, I'm surprised you made it all the way home.

The good news is that you are gaining valuable experience in nursing a sick bike and keeping it running. Maybe you could teach a class.......... :biggrin:

[Easy Rider]

We get lots of "backfire" stories on here simply becuase people are running with a rich mixture.

That being said, I still think this is a valve adjustment problem, which could be considered a timing problem, I guess.
If your valves are opening and closing at the wrong time, then your mixture, which is possibly good coming out of the carb, will be exploding and escaping at the wrong time, thowing it off.


Hmmmm......uuuuuu.... I don't think so. :whistle:

GZ's (and modern bikes in general) tend to run LEAN, not rich.
A lean condition gives a POP, usually on deceleration. A real after-fire is a loud BANG, along with fire from the pipe; that is caused by a really rich mixture.

Valve clearance is measured in THOUSANDTHS of an inch and is seldom out of adjustment more than .001-.005 inch. You can sometimes HEAR a difference but the affect on performance is TINY, if any at all. Impossible, no, but highly unlikely.

[alantf]

When I mentioned the timing being out, I was refering to the timing of the spark in relation to the piston position. Cars have an automatic advance/retard, but I remember on my Dad's old Norton 500cc single cylinder bike (in the late 1940s / early 1950s) he had an advance/retard lever on the handlebars which he had to adjust depending on what the engine was doing. I'm assuming that there's an automatic one on modern bikes. Could this be playing up, or am I on the wrong track altogether?
(there was also an exhaust valve lifter lever, to stop you breaking your leg whilst kick starting it. Thank the lord for electric starters!)

[Easy Rider]

I'm assuming that there's an automatic one on modern bikes. Could this be playing up, or am I on the wrong track altogether?


Yes, it could be, especially when wet from rain exposure but again, highly unlikely. If something like that is off, it would likely continue to be "off" regardless of the engine temperature.

[alanmcorcoran]

If this were "House" it would probably be lupus.

Before you write I'm not a fan - my daughter and her boyfriend used to watch it until I ruined it for them by checking my watch everytime they speculated what the disease of the week was and saying, "Nope, can't be that, too much time left!"

[dan_]

Or Wilsons. haha.

[mr. softie]

Wet weather can have adverse affects if there is a weak spot in the ignition, for example a crack in the insulation of your spark plug wire or "boot", or a myriad of other faults. I like to spray "wire dryer" on all the electrical stuff once in a while to forestall these "leakage" issues. Not that your bike is running poorly because of the wet weather Alan. However too large a spark plug gap(higher resistance) will more likely cause the juice to seek easier paths to ground than a properly gapped plug , and it's worse when components and/or connections are damp or dirty. (Saw the pics of your plug Alan, looked like a bit of erosion/wear on your plug had possibly enlarged the gap out of spec).

Back to the OP's question of why the poor gas mileage, I was doing service to my bike today and noticed the rear brake was not releasing fully, because of a sluggish cable. I had noticed my mileage dropping a bit as well. I disconnected the cable at the wheel, disengaged the clamps, raised the back end of the cable, and funneled some PB Blaster into it. Presto no more sluggish cable and my rear brake is releasing as it should now. So it could just be something simple causing the drop in mileage. Front calipers can also bind and cause a dragging front brake. so if possible raise each wheel off the ground and give it a spin to check.

[Rick]

Update: mystery solved (I think). I noticed a few days ago that my rear brake pedal was feeling kind of sticky, so I lubed the moving parts and cable, and *voila*, I'm back up to my usual MPG. I guess it wasn't returning to the full resting position and was dragging a little. :popcorn:

[Sarris]

Alan, I guess I don't understand why you think there is a problem. The bike is supposed to run like shit while it's warming up. I run my GeeZee about 5-6 miles under 1/2 - 3/4 choke most Florida mornings. And it basically DOES run like shit 'till it warms up. After that?....Nothing wrong, no problemo. Perhaps it's nothing more than a slightly low idle adjustment?

Rick, double check your brake adjustment to be sure it's ok! Hopefully, you didn't burn up the shoes.

:)

[Joho]

Alan, my idle speed used to race during warmup was well.

My idle speed was set muchtoo high, and there was too much slack in the feed/return throttle cables. I'd suggest you check those, and make sure there is sufficient tension.

[Easy Rider]

Perhaps it's nothing more than a slightly low idle adjustment?


Once again around the circle...... :shocked: :crackup

I think that probably was the original problem but now, having gone through it myself (and hoping that it is solved), I think that having it set a little too HIGH might be worse because it makes you think you can open the choke sooner than you really should.

I don't usually ride at 60 F. and now find that it takes a LONG time to warm up at that temperature........and a corresponding LONG time to come off the choke.....if the hot idle speed is set properly.

Like you said, one can't be afraid to keep the choke on at least a little, for as long as it takes, to keep the idle speed up until it is thoroughly hot.

I'm glad someone else finally pilled on. My foot was getting tired kicking Alan's butt all by myself. :whistle:

Should be interesting to see what the shop has to say......the second time.

[alanmcorcoran]

Alan, I guess I don't understand why you think there is a problem. The bike is supposed to run like shit while it's warming up.

Well, if that's the case, then, I guess I'm good. The problem is, with the idle set properly when the bike is hot, it will still stall when I come to a stop (in the first seven, eight minutes), even with the choke full on. Plus, if I leave the choke on for the length of the commute, the engine will race like hell at stops. If I drop it to half, where the idle is less crazy, it will probably stall when I come to a stop. Basically, there is no stability to the idle level, regardless of choke position, until the engine is hot.

The only solution for stalling right now, is to bump the idle up so the thing races like crazy at the high end of the wandering idle range. That way, when it drops down precipitously at stop signs and lights, it'll still be high enough that it won't stall. This sort of sucks. Because I mainly use the GZ to commute, and my commute is between 15 and 20 minutes, most of the time I am on the thing it is going to suck.

I have none of these problems with the Strat, nor do I think I had them when the GZ was new (which wasn't that long ago.)

[Sarris]

Just set the idle at 1200 ~ 1300 rpm HOT, and leave it alone. You are more than likely fighting multiple the variables at one time. Bad/old gas, bad/old plug, speck of crud through the carb, humidity, air temp..........who knows? That kind of stuff comes and goes and sometimes is just part of the motorcycle deal. Also, at five or seven minutes down the road, you should probably be at 1/4 choke or less. Maybe you are getting too much gas? Choke stuck partially open? Lube 'er up!

Glad you're enjoying the Strat, and I'm glad you didn't hurt yourself or the bike in your most current whoop-shit. Just so you know you're not the only dumbass in the world, the first week I got my Harley, I backed down my sloping driveway and cut the wheel hard right, then grabbed the front brake to stop it. Not moving fast, mind you. It went over past the point of me returning it upright, so, I took a rag out of the dash bag and placed it under the fairing to concrete contact patch, and set it down easy(??), so no paint damage. I did break off the end of the clutch lever ($55) and embarrassed the crap out of myself (priceless). The bike went over with the tires facing up the sloped driveway and it took three of us to get it upright. Whoop-shit.

:cry:

[Easy Rider]

If I drop it to half, where the idle is less crazy, it will probably stall when I come to a stop.

I am going to reserve further comment until it comes back from the shop .........except to ask if you don't see a problem with the statement above ??? :??:

[Easy Rider]

I am going to reserve further comment until it comes back from the shop

OK, I lied! :roll:

Got to thinking about this some more and:
What time of the year did you buy your bike?
I think I got mine about June, when the outside temps. were above 70, where it does fine.
I only noticed the problem when the temp. was below ~60.
So, like you, I could also say: It worked fine when it was new.

Sarris, on the other hand, has had his through several seasons and his pronouncement might be the best piece of advice in this whole discussion......including whatever the dealer ends up telling you. :rawk:

[Sarris]

One other note, fuel injected bikes are the mac. My HD, (like your Strat) is computer controlled fool (sic) injection, so no user input is required.

Turn on the key, wait for the light to go off, start up and drive away. The GeeZer is old school carb. It's really hard to make a comparison.

And equally hard to go back without seeing the old girl's warts more in focus.

:)

[patrick_777]

However, if you ever want to alter the mixture and performance, you have to rechip the ECU instead of simply turning a screw on the carb.

[alanmcorcoran]

Got to thinking about this some more and:
What time of the year did you buy your bike?
I think I got mine about June, when the outside temps. were above 70, where it does fine.
I only noticed the problem when the temp. was below ~60.
So, like you, I could also say: It worked fine when it was new.


I had that same thought. I bought mine in July I think. Howevah, we've had near 90 degree days in January. It hasbeen colder in February though. But the warmer it is, the less of a problem I have. Still haven't heard from the dealer.

[alanmcorcoran]

One other note, fuel injected bikes are the mac. My HD, (like your Strat) is computer controlled fool (sic) injection, so no user input is required.

It's really hard to make a comparison.

And equally hard to go back without seeing the old girl's warts more in focus.

Yeah, I just got done with a 300 miler, that was probably 180 miles of high speed 4 lane freeway. The Strat loves the freeway. I'd be pretty fried by now (and still out on the road!) had I taken the GZ.

Never got the Strat over 3000 RPM's

[patrick_777]

That's because the Stratoliner was designed for touring and freeway riding. The GZ wasn't. It's good, though, that you're using them for their intended purposes.