Bike starting rituals, help?

[deadman13]

Hey, I posted a while back about having trouble starting the bike, having to switch the key on and off and all.

Well, now I think I found a short-cut to starting this fu :skull: ing thing.

Before I try to start it, I have to turn the kill switch off and on, then itll usually fire right up. I dont normaly shut it off with anything but the key, and I know the first thing thatll be said will probably just to keep doing that, but Id rather have it start without a pre ride dance of sorts.


Any help?

also, where can i find info on how to adjust the valves. I think Im riding a Singer...

[5th_bike]

Didn't you have a rusty 99 GZ ?

In cases like that, for electric contacts that are getting unreliable with time: you disassemble them, if possible, and clean the crud and oxidation off the contact points, for instance with fine sandpaper.
The only alternative is to replace the switch.

Information on adjusting the valves can be found in the maintenance manual that can be downloaded from this forum. You will need a special tool to adjust the valves.
But you can check them with a regular feeler gauge.

[deadman13]

its not rusty, but it had sat for 6 years. fun times btw

ive only recently had this issue, maybe half the time ive owned the bike. and i just had to replace a fairly new battery a week ago.

in all, i dont see what the switch would have to do with it. ive had the handle controls apart to try to fix a throttle cable (only have one now) and it looked ok. im confoozed

[5th_bike]

Oh - with 'switch' I mean the kill switch you were talking about - when you say you have to switch it off and on for it to work, that indicates that the switch's contacts do not conduct electricity very well.

Ususally this is because of dirt or oxidation on the switch's contacts.

The 'kill' switch is just another switch in the ignition circuit. I has to be 'on' for the ignition to work.

[deadman13]

i get that. it hardly ever leaves the "on" position. until recently, when on a fluke i was in a hurry and pissed and flipped it off/on for no real apparent reason. did that, bike fired right up. been doing it ever since.


so heres the ritual in detail:

key in and turned on, check choke, flip kill switch kill/run, hit starter and crank right up

old ritual: key in and turned on, check choke, hit starter and turns over but not start. turn key off/on, try again till it fired. probably what killed the battery.

what i need to know is why the kill switch would need to go from run/off/run to crank? shouldnt it, in theory, just be the same as starting the bike with it in run from the get go?

[Water Warrior 2]

Here is what I would suggest. Buy a can of contact cleaner for electrical stuff. Spray the ignition switch inside, the kill switch on the handle bar, the switch built into the clutch lever and the kill switch under the side stand. Could be any one of those or a combo of more than one. The side stand switch can be easily seen from the right side. There is a plunger that you can work with your finger tip after spraying. If your bike sat for a long time the contacts will be corroded.

[Easy Rider]

Here is what I would suggest. Buy a can of contact cleaner for electrical stuff. Spray the ignition switch inside, ..............

Probably a good idea BUT.....none of those things is likely to be the culprit, except maybe the ignition switch because any of the safetys that are not working correctly will cause the bike to NOT turn over at all, I think.

We can rule out the kill switch 'cause I just went to the garage and tested it.
With the kill switch off, nothing happens when you push the start button; I suspect the same is true for ALL of the other safetys too: clutch, side stand and neutral.

So, then, what is left? The ignition switch itself, which I believe has multiple contacts AND which in the past caused it to start if you screwed with it long enough.....OR....a loose connection on or near the electronic ignition assembly (ignitor?) or the ignitor itself is intermittant. Another good possibility is a bad ground somewhere.

You might get just as good a result if you go back to the old ritual and simply wait 5 seconds instead of flipping the kill switch.......or turn the ignition switch on and off twice before you attempt an actual start.

Have you actually tried the "old" method since you got the new battery? The problem might be gone. You did fully charge the new battery before installing it, didn't you ??

P.S. Sounding like a sewing machine is pretty much normal. :biggrin:

[deadman13]

did the old method to see what was going on, still same old nothing. hit the kill switch both ways, fired right up.

the bikes never just stopped(bad ground) except for a few times when it just shut off at a light, then fired right back up. ive been through all the safeties because my last bike had none (the killswitch was the hi/lo beam selector, and i found the hard way my kickstad was down a few times.)and when i got this thing i didnt know why it wouldnt start (3 dealer calls later, i got it going.)so they all work fine.

the ignition seems to be fine, except for this issue everthing works as it should (all lights, lock, on/off etc)

so im at a loss.

on a side note, can anyone see any issues with putting the battery on the flat spot on the swing arm? i can make all the brackets, tie downs etc. ive just never had one on the swing and ive checked for clearance (took shocks off) and thats ok. i could use a little more space under the seat since my horn takes up where the "trunk" used to be.

[Easy Rider]

did the old method to see what was going on, still same old nothing.

the bikes never just stopped(bad ground) except for a few times when it just shut off at a light,

on a side note, can anyone see any issues with putting the battery on the flat spot on the swing arm?

Just EXACTLY what is the "same old nothing"? Does it turn over or not? You have stated it both ways. Can't have it both ways. When it fails, either it turns over or it doesn't. If it DOES turn over but won't fire, the problem can NOT be the kill switch. If it won't turn over at all, then it is likely the kill switch or one of the safetys........

OR A LOOSE WIRE OR BAD GROUND....per the second statement quoted above:
It hasn't just stopped......except for those times when it DID JUST STOP. :roll:

No, putting the battery on the swing arm is NOT a good idea. It will take a beating if you do that. Somehow I have a feeling that my opinion isn't gonna count for much though. :cry:

[deadman13]

it always turns over if the safties are correct. never said it didnt turn over, just didnt fire.


and the swing arm thingie was just because i know that hard tails (which mine is right now anyway) have it right in front of the wheels. but if i put the shocks back on, then itd be bad. i kinda thought so anyway.

[deadman13]

and btw easy, i listen to you (mostly). im stubborn, not stupid

[Easy Rider]

it always turns over if the safties are correct. never said it didnt turn over, just didnt fire.


Well, maybe just once: "......what i need to know is why the kill switch would need to go from run/off/run to crank?" :biggrin:


and btw easy, i listen to you (mostly). im stubborn, not stupid


It IS sometimes hard to tell the difference when the only evidence is a few text messages !! :whistle: :cool:

[deadman13]

Yeah, that was a misstatement on my part. It'll crank either way (so long as the safties all work, etc). It just won't fire. When I flip the switch, run/off/run it cranks/fires right up.

And in reference to the "old" way, someone asked if I tried it my old way since I got the new battery (choke, key on, crank. No fire, turn key off/on then keep trying till something happened.) I have tried, same results. Nothing.

And easy, you, sarris and a few others here have "inspired" me with your advice to others that I haven't really had the need to ask too much, and when I do I usually bumble through it.

Don't worry, soon ill have pics and if needed a how to on installing a rebel front fender, and a few other things. I learned the hard way on a nice rainy day that its not the best idea not to have a front fender...

[Badbob]

I had switch issues with mine when I first got it. I'm an old electronics guy and I know about switches. My solution was take them apart. Carefully clean the contacts with a non abrasive eraser (usually white). Remove all dirt, corrosion, and spiders. lightly coat all the contacts with dielectric (silicon) grease. I also like to put a little dielectric grease on moving parts. The dielectric grease protects, lubricates and helps prevent corrosion.

[alanmcorcoran]

I've been following this thread and the one part of it that I don't get is, well, let me put it this way: It would make perfect sense if he had to cycle the on/off switch to get it to crank and start (classic contact oxidation or corrosion - on seventies era switches, switching them on and off [a lot] sometimes would clean the rust off them.), but what doesn't make sense is that the bike turns over (always), but only fires up after he messes with the kill switch. Is there a circuit from the kill switch to the spark plug? Does the spark plug need a little higher amps to fire (maybe there's enough current to turn it over but not enough for a spark? [I know, that makes no sense!])

Did anyone address this in the previous and I just didn't catch it?

[deadman13]

thank you alan! thats kinda where i was trying to get, but couldnt. it will ALWAYS turn over as long as the safties are ok. and it will ONLY FIRE once the kill switch is cycled. blah. ill be into the bike tomarrow anyway, so all will be revealed then.

on a side note, i just drilled the brass plug out of the carb for the pilot screw. they really didnt want you in there! its at least 1/2" thick!
and is there any tips on pulling the plug out once drilled? already broke a set of needle noses off trying to.

[Easy Rider]

Did anyone address this in the previous and I just didn't catch it?

Yes, at least once.......but I don't think he "got it". :roll:

There is only ONE set of contacts in the kill switch. It provides power to the starter switch AND the coil. If it turns over, the problem can NOT be the contacts.

Depending on how the wiring runs physically, the connection to the coil could be loose or corroded.......or a connection on the OTHER side of the coil at or near the ignitor......or a ground.

It IS hard for a non-technician to grasp how an intermittant connection can give all kinds of strange false symptoms. Even some techs. never completely get it.

I get the impression that there have been lots of mods. to this particular bike so I guess anything is possible. Somehow I don't think logic is going to solve this one. A meter might help but good old fashioned dumb luck is likely to provide the ultimate fix.

" is there any tips on pulling the plug out once drilled? already broke a set of needle noses off trying to."

Hope you are working on the right plug!! :shocked:

Yes, a nice sharp, small sheet metal or wood screw. Turn it in until it JUST bites and then pull/twist at an angle. I'd be interested to know (once you're in) if changing that adjustment makes any difference. It ONLY affects the idle and I didn't see any difference until it was WAY out of adjustment.......in both directions.

[Dupo]

I ground my plug down very slowly with a dremel tool until it broke through, then popped the rest of it out. Gotta be careful so you dont grind the screw.

[deadman13]

Only mods done are fenders, exhaust drilled and air filter, took scoop off. I just wanted to get to the pilot to make sure everything was copasetic (sp?)

[Badbob]

If I suspected a bad connection some where I would get my manual out and find every connector in the circuit and clean it up. If that doesn't work then check all the wires under a bright light for holes in the insulation. My GZ250 was down for 2 months once because if a tiny nick in the insulation of one of the wires in the headlight bell that was causing the ignition system to fail completely. It was intermittent for awhile before it quit completely at the end of my driveway. Lucky break. :) Repaired with a piece of 3M electrical tape.

If the starter spins the safety interlocks are all working.

[Easy Rider]

Repaired with a piece of 3M electrical tape.


Might want to re-visit that repair occasionally. Even the best tape tends to come un-done with temperature cycles.

[Badbob]

Repaired with a piece of 3M electrical tape.


Might want to re-visit that repair occasionally. Even the best tape tends to come un-done with temperature cycles.

I'm not going back in the headlight bell unless I have to. It takes to long to get all the wires crammed back in and get the screws back in. If it breaks I'll fix it.

I use 3M electrical tape because it doesn't come off if applied correctly.