Santa Ana winds

[Moedad]

I did NOT ride to work today.

Here in the LA Basin every fall and into early winter (other times of the year also but not as common) we get what severe winds that are caused by high pressure areas out over the Great Basin (Nevada, Southern Utah, etc.) that funnel air through our canyons and passes and blast us with gale force winds. There's all kinds of crap flying through the air--palm tree debris, election signs, GOP chances of winning in November, etc. Plus it blows you around on the GZ somethin' fierce. From the side it changes your lane and from the front it's like you're going 90 when you're only going 20 or 30. Alan, Busy--have you guys been out in this? Not fun.

[NeverAgain]

will try this Wednesday, my bike is at dealer for a leaking head gasket

101 north ---> 134 east ---> 210 pasadena = 26 miles

[Moedad]

will try this Wednesday, my bike is at dealer for a leaking head gasket

101 north ---> 134 east ---> 210 pasadena = 26 miles

Oh yeah, I forgot your freeway commute, Never. If the winds are still howling on Wednesday, we'll be interested in a ride report from you, for sure.

Just curious, does the dealer (or you) think that your leaking head gasket might be due to all the high rpm freeway driving? How many miles have you put on by now? Somewhere between 2500 and 3000, right?

[alanmcorcoran]

I will probably give it a whirl. I only gotta go about 7 miles.

[NeverAgain]

the dealer think it due to riding at 60mph on a new engine, even thought i told him my maximum speed is 55mph with occasionally going to 60mph for 1 minutes or two (the warranty will cover it)

I put 3053 miles between 6-29-2008 and 10-10-2008

[NeverAgain]

I forgot to say, my first freeway ride was after 850 miles on the street

[alanmcorcoran]

Moe, Never, Busy:

I decided to check it out. I think the really bad gusting might have passed before I headed out. It was still blowing pretty good though and the gusts were tremendous. The air out here is brown with dust. Here's the deal:

1) I paid close attention and I do not think the wind is actually capable of "moving" me and the bike directly. I think your body and the bike acts like sail, and the wind can influence the lean of the bike, yourself and the handlebar position. I suppose if the blast is really powerful, it could knock you over, but the "moving" is more an influence on your direction, rather than actually sending you five feet to the right. As it turns out, I had no issues with steering or control. (Maybe just lucky.)

2) The bigger problem for me was all of the crap blowing around. I got dust/dirt in my eyes (even though I am wearing a full lid with a faceshield), and all kinds of stuff was bouncing off my head and chest. Being sort of fall, theres a lot of leaves and crap on the street too, and we all know how fun those can be for two wheel traction. Coming down La Palma, past the Regional Park, there were some tree branches down in the road I had to steer around. Good practice for the zombie slalom.

3) I did need to put both feet on the ground at the stops. Normally, I'm not religious about this, but the wind was strong enough to knock me over if I didn't use both legs to keep the bike upright.

Early on on my trip I was heartened to see a motorcycle cop out on patrol. (Never thought I'd say that!) I figured if they didn't think it was too dangerous, that's a good sign. I know they ride heavier bikes (BMW's I think), but still...

So, to sum up, it's not fun, probably more dangerous than riding wind-free, but also do-able. Part of my aim with the GZ is to learn the boundaries of what I can tolerate so I can apply this knowledge should I attempt a lengthy tour. Today was a good lesson on high winds.

-Alan.

[Moedad]

I made a freeway loop late last night. I was trying out the high winds too. 22 east made me feel like a salmon swimming upstream. On the 57 north, I twice got bumped over a lane. 91 west was great! I was doing 75 no problemo. Oh, and I also got stuff inside my FF helmet. I wear contacts. No fun. When the winds picked up during the night, I decided not to ride this morning. Seemed much calmer at lunch.

[alanmcorcoran]

Have you gotten used to the freeway wiggle? I've only got about 30-35 freeway miles under my belt, and I am still quite unnerved by the constant shimmying of the front and back wheels - especially above 55. Plus there seems to be near constant edge seams you've got to be careful of. Not to mention the traffic and the wind. I haven't had any "incidents" but I am totally on edge the whole time. I did about 7 miles on the 71 over the weekend and it's real wavy, and the first lane straddles the old concrete and the old shoulder. There's a nice ass-dumping edge that runs right down the middle of it.

Maybe I'm just a pussy, but I thought I'd have calmed down and relaxed a bit out there by now. Doesn't seem to be happening. I want to try the 55 cause it's paved, but I haven't had any reason to go that way just yet.

I did split the lanes last Saturday when I mistakenly got on the 91 going west at about 6:15. No problemo. Was kind of fun actually. No shimmy shake at 12 miles an hour.

[Moedad]

Have you gotten used to the freeway wiggle?

Yes and no. Used to it, yes--comfortable, NO. I'm used to it enough that I would rather do it than ride across the county on surface streets, depending on how crowded and which freeway it is. I've only been out in moderate traffic so far. It just depends. Some are fine, like some of the new portions of the 22, or like the 405 south of Goldenwest or Beach. Some are awful.

Maybe my windshield has something to do with it too. I no longer feel like I'm going to be become a kite, or be pulled off the bike. I think if I used some earplugs it would also help lessen the sensory input. For me anyway, my noobieness, the windblast, the wiggle, and the noise definitely kept me off the freeways. Now it's easier. I sure would like to have more horsepower to move with the traffic patterns and take better advantage of gaps that are opening and closing.

[Easy Rider]

Have you gotten used to the freeway wiggle?

What brand of tires do you have? Do they have one (or more) main center groove that runs all the way around? I'm betting yes, as that is the most common OEM tire design. Those center grooves in the tire try to "track" the grooves in the pavement, giving the squirrley feeling.

Something to keep in mind when you need replacement tires. If you can find them, ones without that center groove might be more to your liking. Alas, without that center groove, they tend to be somewhat unstable under other conditions.......like rain. :cry:

[davtnn]

Like Ron White says "its not that the winds are blowing... it is what the wind is blowing ...."watch out for large chunks"

[alanmcorcoran]

Metzler "Perfect" ME77. And yes, there is one main center groove that runs all the way around.

[Easy Rider]

Metzler "Perfect" ME77. And yes, there is one main center groove that runs all the way around.

Yep, me too. I haven't noticed that effect at all......except where the big machine has scrapped off the top layer in prep. for new asphalt. Guess the California road builders are more afraid of rain than they are elsewhere! :biggrin:

I would think that the effect would be less noticeable in the tire tracks.......where the grooves should be flattened out some ????

[Joho]

Have you gotten used to the freeway wiggle? I've only got about 30-35 freeway miles under my belt, and I am still quite unnerved by the constant shimmying of the front and back wheels - especially above 55. ...

Maybe I'm just a pussy, but I thought I'd have calmed down and relaxed a bit out there by now.


Ahh, just relax!! Keep a firm (but gentle) grip, and suck it up!

Also, it may be inclusive to my gz only, but getting over the 55mph "hump" takes a second or two. 55-60 is slow going, but from 60-70 is smooth. (as smooth as it gets with all 250cc's workin their asses off, haha)

[alanmcorcoran]

I'll give it another shot. 60-70 is not always in reach on mine, especially if there is an incline involved. To go over 60, I usually have to assume the chin on speedo position, and I'm not sure I'm ready for that with the severe shimmy yet.

I'll keep at it. One of my friends is fond of saying that you eventually get used to everything.

[mr. softie]

My Cheng Shin's wobble a tiny bit sometimes on grooved pavement. I try to just relax and let it wander a bit. The tires do have a small center groove but they are much better than the Dunlop's that were on my GZ. The metal bridge gratings freak me out sometimes with the wiggle waggle business but if I just keep a light hold and slow down a bit it wiggles less.

But back to those winds...a real pain I am sure. Especially with crap flying around. And the cages and trucks being pushed around as well, no picnic!
http://www.postimage.org/aV1gps8S.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1gps8S)

[Moedad]

These are mine. I think they are Metzlers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/danmartin56/Miscellaneous/GZ250TireDetail.jpg

[alanmcorcoran]

I would think that the effect would be less noticeable in the tire tracks.......where the grooves should be flattened out some ????

It's kind of hard to explain exactly, but there are five elements of discomfort involved:

1) First there are the grooves. These cause a fine wiggle, and I can almost ignore this after a while. It is similar to the road scraping wiggle, but these grooves are deeper. There is a little relief in the "tire tracks" but not much.

2) Second is what I call "scalloping." This is just weird and doesn't serve any purpose I am aware of, but it's as if a heavy machine came along and carved little half circular waves into the concrete about 12-18 inches on diameter. This causes a waggle of greater amplitude that combines with the fine wiggle, to give you, well, a wiggle waggle. The wiggle-waggle occurs on both wheels, independently, so there is a sort of third shimmy introduced by the two wiggle-waggles fighting each other.

3) California freeways are re-laned, re-directed, squished together and re-routed near constantly. As a result, the concrete pour of the original lanes don't match up with the actual lanes anymore and there are one to two inch "seams" running lengthwise, diagonally and otherwise, constantly, in and out of your path. When you hit one of these, it causes turbulence with the tires, the lean and the steering that you must correct for, or you will go down.

4) Fourth, the traffic is averaging at least 75 and many drivers cruise at 85. This means there can be a 20 to 30 mile difference in speed if you are only going 55. This is not a huge problem, but you need to be very vigilant about what is happening behind and to the sides of you.

5) The wind is fierce. I have no windshield. There is the 55 plus from the speed, and then there is the side drafts from cars and trucks. These also push on you and must be corrected for.

In spite of this, I still have hit the freeway - sometimes out of necessity, sometimes just to practice. But it's very nerve wracking and I don't think I'd be able to do it for long stretches.

I left out the Botts Dots. Those are fun too, especially if you are splitting lanes (legal only here in CA I understand...)

[mrlmd1]

My new Cheng Shins are like Mr. Softie's. Anyone know the reason for the reversed tread design on the front and rear tires? Is there a difference in how the front and rear sheds water?

[Easy Rider]

4) Fourth, the traffic is averaging at least 75 and many drivers cruise at 85. This means there can be a 20 to 30 mile difference in speed if you are only going 55. This is not a huge problem, but you need to be very vigilant about what is happening behind and to the sides of you.

In spite of this, I still have hit the freeway - sometimes out of necessity, sometimes just to practice. But it's very nerve wracking and I don't think I'd be able to do it for long stretches.


Always thought you were nuts; this just confirms it !! :crazy: :crackup

NO WAY you would catch me on a bike in that mess.....not ANY bike mind you, and especially not one like the GZ that can't really keep up. :skull:

[Moedad]

These are the two that get to me, especially #3.

3) California freeways are re-laned, re-directed, squished together and re-routed near constantly. As a result, the concrete pour of the original lanes don't match up with the actual lanes anymore and there are one to two inch "seams" running lengthwise, diagonally and otherwise, constantly, in and out of your path. When you hit one of these, it causes turbulence with the tires, the lean and the steering that you must correct for, or you will go down.

4) Fourth, the traffic is averaging at least 75 and many drivers cruise at 85. This means there can be a 20 to 30 mile difference in speed if you are only going 55. This is not a huge problem, but you need to be very vigilant about what is happening behind and to the sides of you.

[mr. softie]

And I thought I95 through Philly was bad! That sounds much worse. Take the Hummer instead! :2tup:

Are there no alternatives to the freeway?

[alanmcorcoran]

Sometimes there are, sometimes not so much. I've written about the difficulties in ride reports. To get to West LA (for coastal points like Santa Monica or Malibu), for example, involves a thirty five mile trek through LA "surface streets" which can take 2-2.5 hrs. To get to Corona is 4 miles on the freeway, 35 if you go "around."

Some of the freeways are paved with asphalt, but not the ones I need to go on.

[NeverAgain]

from above

3) California freeways are re-laned, re-directed, squished together and re-routed near constantly...........

Correct , but it only take 100 - 200 miles to get use to.
at first it feels like the bike moved a full inch, than half, than 1/8 and now it is just a harmless turbulence.

4) Fourth, the traffic is averaging at least 75 and many drivers cruise at 85............

Not correct, the physics might be correct but when you are out there you won't feel it, plus you can ride in the first 2 lines till you upgrade to 650cc

my freeway riding is 26 miles, at first I used to ride 20 road + 6 freeway (avoiding all the freeway connection and windy spots) later I was doing 10 road and 16 freeway ( avoiding less and less)
we all say 99% of cars are as*h*les, but that is not true a lot will open a split lane for you, wait for an opening to pass you ( 100% of Californians are afraid of lawsuits and traffic accident make the majority here)

I will start a new topic tomorrow about the gasket change I had ( they changed a lot of thing $180 coved by warranty )

[alanmcorcoran]

4) Fourth, the traffic is averaging at least 75 and many drivers cruise at 85............
Not correct, the physics might be correct but when you are out there you won't feel it, plus you can ride in the first 2 lines till you upgrade to 650cc


From the LA times, circa 2000... (it's gotten faster since then...)

* According to survey data, average speeds on the Santa Ana Freeway in Irvine jumped from 64 to 69 mph from 1997 to 1999, while speeds on Interstate 5 near Encinitas rose from 68 to 71 mph.

* About 45,000 of the 220,000 drivers who use the Santa Ana Freeway on a typical day now top 75 mph. Two years ago, only about 9,000 drivers did.

* The number of motorists ticketed for exceeding 100 mph in south Orange County hit an all-time high of 216 in 1999, more than double the number a decade ago. Statewide, the number of motorists ticketed for topping 100 mph doubled in the 1990s, from 4,895 to 9,716.

“It’s crazy out here, man,” said Bradley Eldon Cahill, a San Diego businessman recently cited for going 92 mph along Interstate 5 in San Clemente. “People were passing me at 100 mph.”

“Sometimes you get in a daze,” said one 27-year-old woman pulled over on the San Diego Freeway near San Clemente. Ticketed for going 88 mph in the slow lane, she said her 1999 Saturn “sealed” her from the speed. “I had no idea I was going so fast,” she said.

Remote freeways tended to record the fastest speeds. On Interstate 5 in Shasta County, the average speed in 1999 was 70 mph. On Interstate 15 in the Mojave desert, the average speed is 75 mph, and nearly half of all motorists drive faster than 75 mph (the speed limit on this stretch is 70 mph).

“People really fly through here,” said Randy Dopp, a CHP officer who patrols the wide-open desert areas of Riverside County.

The 12-year veteran said he recently ticketed eight drivers in one day for going more than 100 mph.

In an average year, Dopp issues about 500 tickets to motorists exceeding 100 mph–more than some entire CHP offices. His talent for snaring speeders has prompted colleagues to nickname him “100-mph-Dopp.”

Dopp intercepts most drivers on Interstate 10 on the way to Palm Springs. He has pulled over famous athletes, Hollywood stars, young mothers going to visit loved ones in desert prisons, doctors speeding to hospital emergencies.

“I could write 50 tickets in a day for people going over 80 mph, so I try to find the worst of the worst,” he said.

Like Dopp, officers statewide focus on snaring the most blatant offenders.

‘I wasn’t going 88, I was going 95’

Orange County CHP officer Stephen Miles usually limits enforcement to motorists driving more than 20 mph over 65 mph. On a recent afternoon while he patrolled the southbound San Diego Freeway, speeds were typical, with traffic moving at about 75 mph.

[Easy Rider]

Correct , but it only take 100 - 200 miles to get use to.
Not correct, the physics might be correct but when you are out there you won't feel it,

A valid description, no doubt, of your PERSONAL experiences.
That may not, however, be typical of all riders; hell, it may not even be typical of MANY riders. Some riders never quite master the clutch/shifter thing !! :shocked:

So......representing your feelings as the "truth" is often not a good thing to do !! :)

[Magnar Infectus]

Sounds like I-95 in Palm Beach County, FL. It's 55mph in the construction zones (which is most of it) and 65 where the construction is finished. I usually go about 80 (in my truck) just to keep up with traffic, but I constantly get passed like I'm standing still. I won't be taking my GZ on I-95 anytime soon.

[alanmcorcoran]

representing your feelings as the "truth" is often not a good thing to do !!

Seems to work, though. Add repetition and some volume and you've got a pretty strong argument.