Downshifting Problem

[RichInFla]

Another newbie post, and I'm sure I'm not going to explain this correctly, but here goes:

A couple of times, I didn't have a chance to downshift coming to a red light (one of those "should I gun it or stop"). When I stop and downshift at the red light, it goes from 4th to 3rd to 2nd, but when I try to go to first, it just stays in neutral. I try to push it down to first, but it won't go (and I've tried gentle and god dang it, get into first). I've noticed when I come to a stop sign, and have a chance to downshift, it does go all the way into first (and I can hear it "clunk" in). I notice at a stop light if I haven't downshifted, I can get it into 2nd when it's stuck in neutral and start out in 2nd, but I keep wondering why it won't go into first. I actually had to pull over once and I eventually got it out of neutral into first.

It doesn't happen all the time, just on occasion. I'm trying to narrow it down to specifics, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

I was thinking of changing the oil to "synthetic" as I've read here, which might help. Previous owner gave me oil and filter, but do I really have to change the "o-ring" as well ??

Just hit 250 miles on Sunday, whooo hooo. Yes, I know, small milestone for all you "seasoned" riders. :2tup:

[alanmcorcoran]

This is a common complaint on here and is not limited to GZ's. You have to let the clutch out a tad to get it to drop into first.

Letting out the clutch to the very earliest bit of the friction point, coupled with maybe rocking the bike a little with both feet on the ground and it should drop right in. And, as you noted, you can also take off in second if you take it slow and let the clutch slip a bit.

[RichInFla]

Is that kind of like when my manual transmission Jeep won't go into "reverse", I kind of let out the clutch a little bit, and it pops in ??

[Easy Rider]

Another newbie post, and I'm sure I'm not going to explain this correctly, but here goes:

I was thinking of changing the oil to "synthetic" as I've read here, which might help. Previous owner gave me oil and filter, but do I really have to change the "o-ring" as well ??



Two things:

You described it perfectly......same problem that befalls EVERY new rider on the planet. I'm surprised we haven't discussed it since you joined. It comes up about every week. You can stop wasting your time trying to analyze when/how it occurs. It's pretty much random.

When you are "stuck" in that situation, you can either let the clutch out momentarily or roll the bike a foot or so......or both. Engaging the clutch is probably easier.

Second, how many miles on your '00 bike? I am a firm believer in synthetic oil EXCEPT in an engine with lots of miles on dino oil. If your ~8 year old bike has anything close to 10K miles, I'd stick with regular oil. Less than that, change over. It will probably help the shifting situation some.

Oops, third thing: I change the O rings and compression washer only every 2nd change BUT you should have all on hand incase one is damaged or lost in the process.

[Easy Rider]

Is that kind of like when my manual transmission Jeep won't go into "reverse", I kind of let out the clutch a little bit, and it pops in ??

Yes! :tup:

[RichInFla]

Had to edit to say "thanks" to Easy Rider for not saying "well, duh, stupid, if you just let out the clutch it'll drop into gear, and Alan for the same !!

Okay cool...Well, it's only got about 5200 miles on it, so changing to synthetic might help ?? My wife asked me (after the $300 spent on tires, mounting, and brake pad), can't you do it ?? It looks like in the manual it shouldn't be that hard, just have to find a place where I can get the "o-ring" and "compression washer" (didn't read about that though...), as opposed to "honey, I gotta get the oil changed at the shop!!"

Thanks again, I'll try that next time I'm at a stop light and see how it goes.

Looking forward to 500 !!

[Easy Rider]

so changing to synthetic might help ??

just have to find a place where I can get the "o-ring" and "compression washer"

Yes.

There are 2 O-rings; available only from a dealer, I assume.

[mrlmd1]

This is very common on many, if not all motorcycles, and was one of the first things
the MSF instructors told us of (used Honda Rebels for the course). Pull in the clutch,
roll the bike forward a few inches and it should pop into first easily. Don't try and force
it, there's nothing wrong, and you will bend/break something in the linkage if you
persist in forcing it.

[jonathan180iq]

You said you'd like to change your own oil.
http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=566

Also, I've changed my oil three times and haven't changed the O-ring or washer. I have no problems. Just make sure you smear a little oil on it before you put the oil filter cover back on.

If you get synthetic, make sure to buy

A: Motorcycle specific synthetic oil

or

B: Automotive synthetic oil that does not "ENERGY CONSERVING" on the back of the bottle in the API circle.

From my experience, Mobil 1 is ever-so-slightly smoother than castrol syntec synthetic oil. Both were automotive synthetics and needed changing around 3000 miles, because shifting started getting clunky. I assume they were beginning to wear out.

If you go with Castol, only the 10w-40 is available without friction inhibitors. That's good 'cause that's the weight the manual calls for.

[RichInFla]

Okay, so I'm not crazy or doing something wrong, this is good to know. Okay, so maybe I'll give changing the oil a shot, with synthetic and Mobil-1. I can follow directions (and instructions here), so hopefully that will help. Will try the "clutch" trick until then.

Thanks everyone, as always... :roll:

Had to edit again...Is the synthetic oil just "synthetic motor oil" or "synthetic motorcycle oil" ??

[jonathan180iq]

They are very similar and depends on what store you go into.

At Autozone/Advance, make sure you ask for "motorcycle oil". Any synthetic motorcycle oil will work just fine. Make sure you don't slip up and buy 2-stroke oil.

If you choose to use automotive oil, which is cheaper and works just as well, you have to actually read the back of the label to ensure that you don't get an oil with "ENERGY CONSERVING" listed as one of it's attributes. These friction inhibiting oils have caused clutch slipping in some bikes. In the little circle that lists it's API quality or whatever, it will say it all capital letters.

If there is any doubt, get Motorcycle oil. I don't know of any motorcycle oils with firction inhibitors.

[Sarris]

The friction inhibitor Jonathan mentioned is usually graphite. It WILL make your clutch slip. I have a pal that did that and it took 3 oil changes at get that crap out, so pay attention to the label. Motorcycle oil is a safer buy IMHO.

:2tup:

[RichInFla]

Okay, well, around the corner is the local "Auto Zone", where I get stuff for my "other" vehicles, so I guess I'll head there and get "motorcycle oil"..."synthetic"...."4 stroke ??"

Do I really have to change the O-ring again ?? Sorry, just asking again...

Okay y'all, so which brand again ?? (this ought to get it started !!).

[Badbob]

If my memory serves me right, the owners manual mentions something about down shifting into first when you go below 10 mph. The is while your still moving. If you don't do this then the transmission isn't turning and the gears don't sync. Giving it a little clutch while applying light downward pressure to the shift lever will drop it right in to the next lower gear. Repeat as necessary. With practice this become so automatic that you will hardly notice you are doing it.

[patrick_777]

Also available at Walmart for a hair over $5 a quart.

Buy two.

[RichInFla]

Got one of them there Wal-marts down the street as well. Will check that out too.

As for Bad Bob's comments, it's pretty much right on the money with my experience. If I'm coming to a stop sign, I downshift and can feel it "clunk" into first as I downshit (oops, downshift), but if I have to break suddenly like coming to a red light, I have to shift while "stationary", and that's when sometimes going from 2nd to 1st is the issue.

Can't wait to try the "let the clutch out a little" theory (okay, it's not a theory to y'all, but to me it's just a new process !!)

Thanks again !!

[RichInFla]

Y'all are awesome !! Ran into the same problem today on my morning ride. Had to stop for a light turning red and didn't have time to downshift. Once again, got stuck in neutral. Let out the clutch just a little bit, tapped down, and "clunk", it went into first. Thanks for the tip !! :2tup:

[Badbob]

I should also point out that the GZ250 has lots of low end torque and can easily start in second gear. Just a little more gas and a little easier on the clutch and away she goes. This works even on mild hills and might work on a steep one if your skilled enough. It helps if you know what gear your in when you stop.

[RichInFla]

I should also point out that the GZ250 has lots of low end torque and can easily start in second gear. Just a little more gas and a little easier on the clutch and away she goes. This works even on mild hills and might work on a steep one if your skilled enough. It helps if you know what gear your in when you stop.

Yeah, I ended up doing that a couple of times, starting in 2nd. Luckily, no hills here on the coast. Still counting in my head when I stop...4th...3rd...2nd...etc...but I got it into first !! whoo hooo