Motorcycle Course

[NB250]

Hi,

I am not completely new to motorcycles although I don't have my license yet. I am doing the test in 2 weeks. Several people I know have not recommended taking the motorcyle course in our area since it assumes you have no experience with bikes. I wouldn't mind taking it except for the price: $420 plus tax.

I am already comfortable on a bike although am still very cautious...so if you have experience on dirtbikes and a scooter, do you really need the course?

[primal]

Can you say with 100% certainty that you haven't learned any bad habits? If not, then you should consider some type of course. $400+ does seem a bit steep, though. I wonder if the RidersEdge course from a Harley dealer would be any cheaper?

One thing that I've noticed is that 99% of the people who do not recommend the course have not taken the course. Conversely, 99% of the people who HAVE taken the course recommend it highly to everyone, regardless of level of experience. You be the judge...

[alanmcorcoran]

That seems VERY high. Out here in California where everything is high, Moedad and I only paid $250 and if you are under 18 it's only $150. I'd check around - perhaps there is a place that is cheaper. If you are already pretty experienced, look for my thread called California Motorcyle Safety Foundation Course. To summarize, I don't recommend it much. I do recommend you read Proficient Motorcycling - you will learn just as much in much less time. Find out what maneuvers are on your riding test and prctice them in a parking lot. And read my other post. Good luck. (PS, I did take the course and I passed, so I think my perspective on it is valid. For me, it was overrated.)

[NB250]

Thanks guys; I have heard the same from both people who have taken the course and those who haven't. Apparently you spend 8 hours in theory first learning about where the kill switch is, how to start the bike, etc etc. I am no mechanic but it is nothing for me to change out brakes or troubleshoot my own problems.

As for the bad habits...I have been to several motorcycle accidents so I am "hypervigilante" as to safety...

Again...the course is just so expensive for something I'm not sure I want to take. I don't believe there is any alternative in eastern Canada for me to take.

It is a non-profit organization but it seems they are taking advantage of the popularity of motorcycles these days.

[alanmcorcoran]

Sorry, didn't realize you were Canadian (they get kind of peeved on here if you don't put your location on your profile.) I guess the money is about the same as ours right now, so the price is still high. I'm not sure if it's the same course as the MSF that is taught down here, though. For the record, the MSF is three days. The first is ~5 hours of classroom (mostly like drivers ed or traffic school for motorcycles.) This is concluded with a 50 question closed book test. It's multiple guess and the answers are sort of obvious. I wasn't paying much attention (thought it was gonna be open book) and I still didn't get any wrong. The second day is an introduction to the bike. Goes very slow if you've ridden before. Third day is a little more advanced and concludes with the riding test. The best thing I can say is that I think the MSF people take pride in having a high pass rate. I have not been to the CA DMV for the motorcycle drive test, but I suspect they may be less concerned about their pass rate. I don't know if the Canadian rules are similar to CA - down here the motorcycle licensing rules vary considerably from state to state. In some of them, you only have to be able to fog a mirror. Here, we have a DMV written, a permit process and a riding test.

I suspect with the higher price, that your course may be more advanced and include more riding time, and perhaps, fewer students (ours have 12 students per instructor and assistant instructor.) I still think the average person can learn more in less time with Proficient Motorcycling. JMTC.

[primal]

You know, for that price, I bet you could hire one of the instructors yourself and get waaay more experience and instruction than you would otherwise.

[alanmcorcoran]

Primal - did you know the California "range" instructors (Rider Coaches) are prohibited from taking on private students? I tried to do the very thing you suggested and was told they were not allowed to do private instruction. I guess it is a sort of trade secret protection. Not sure about other states.

[Easy Rider]

It is a non-profit organization but it seems they are taking advantage of the popularity of motorcycles these days.

Maybe not. Figure the cost of the range bikes and maintenance. Even if the instructors are not paid......which they probably ARE......the costs would be substantial.

Most places in the US, the MSF course is subsidized, partially or fully. In my state, it is done at state university's and is free.

[Easy Rider]

I still think the average person can learn more in less time with Proficient Motorcycling. JMTC.

With all due respect, I think you over-estimate the learning ability of the "average" person. :yawn:

:crash:

[Magnar Infectus]

I took the class here (in Florida) and learned loads. Most of the classroom portion was common sense, but the 10 hours on the bike was very informative. There were people in my class that had been riding 30+ years and they still learned new things.

I paid $210 USD (about $224 CD if my math is correct) $420 CD seems high to me, but if that's what the going rate for the class is, in Canada, then so be it.

My $0.02 USD

*edited for typos

[alanmcorcoran]

With all due respect, I think you over-estimate the learning ability of the "average" person.

Perhaps Easy, perhaps. But remember, we are talking about the average Motorcycle rider which, I'm sure we all agree, is far smarter than the population at large. :jo:

Seriously, I'm starting to wonder if all these 30 year riders that learned something took a different course. Don't go too fast, don't follow too closely, outside-inside-outside, use both brakes to stop, lean the bike to turn, look where you want to go. Not exactly Secrets of the Universe. But, as I've seen elsewhere here, to each his own. I thought it was overrated, will continue to think so, and am content to be overruled (and ignored) by those of a different opinion. It certainly didn't hurt me to take it, and I met some fun folks of like mind, but if someone that has already ridden over 500 miles is deciding whether to get a new front tire (or a kickass, armored jacket) or take the course (for $400 plus), I say get the tire or the jacket.

[Water Warrior 2]

Take the riding course. Correct bad habits before they get set in stone sort of thing. Cost us $700 each but well worth it IMHO. Lynda was a newbie and I had decades of experience. Learn from an instructor instead of by accident. I never had an accident in all my years on the street but I will not say I was a good rider. I was a very lucky rider though. After the course my VStrom became a lot easier to ride and I had less pucker moments overall. I have yet to talk to a riding student who did not learn a lot. Oh there was one. She was in our course actually. Could aim a bike from point A to point B and figured that's all there was to it. During the on-street instruction she was a hazard to everyone and would try to argue with the instructor when corrected. I doubt she ever passed and got her license.

[Moedad]

After the course my VStrom became a lot easier to ride and I had less pucker moments overall.

WW, out of curiosity, what things did you learn from the course that you hadn't learned in your years of experience?

[Dupo]

After the course my VStrom became a lot easier to ride and I had less pucker moments overall.

WW, out of curiosity, what things did you learn from the course that you hadn't learned in your years of experience?

Looking through a turn to get the bike to go where you want it to smoothly through a curve. I had a horrible habit of looking 10' infront of me which doesnt make for smooth cornering.

[alanmcorcoran]

From Hough, Proficient Motorcycling page 90:

Look

"Before you dive into a corner at full chat, you really ought to figure out where the road goes...

...When you are ready to dive into the curve, swivel your head around to point your nose toward your intended line."

Page 110:

"...get your eyes up and looking towards the next turn, not down at the pavement rolling under your front wheel."

Proficient Motorcycling was recently revised and updated and is a gorgeous book (seriously! lots of color pictures, big type, thick paper!) I can tell you without reservation, if you ride regularly (and can read), it will be the best 25 bucks you spend on bike related paraphernalia.

I studied the book prior to taking the class. I found that the class "borrowed" nearly all of their material from Mr. Hough. In some cases, they mangled it a bit, and in more than a few, they dumb it down. The book covers far more techniques and situations than MSF, is very well organized, and manages to be both deadly serious and funny at the same time. (I am totally not making anything off the sales of this book.) I know I probably have earned a rep on this site as being somewhat full of shit (well-deserved, I might add) but I promise you will not be disappointed if you pick this up. I've read a lot of books on skiing, bicycling, weight lifting, etc. and this is one of the best ever of its kind. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

....buy the effing book!

[Moedad]

Proficient Motorcycling was recently revised and updated and is a gorgeous book (seriously! lots of color pictures, big type, thick paper!) I can tell you without reservation, if you ride regularly (and can read), it will be the best 25 bucks you spend on bike related paraphernalia.

I have it too. It IS a great book.

[Jer]

I've been reading this at Borders when I go on break at work.

I work nearby. I come over and read on my lunch.

Its a GREAT book.

[Water Warrior 2]

After the course my VStrom became a lot easier to ride and I had less pucker moments overall.

WW, out of curiosity, what things did you learn from the course that you hadn't learned in your years of experience?
A great deal of my faults were with low speed handling and the use of the rear brake and riding/slipping the clutch properly. Very old cage training: never slip the clutch b/c you will destroy it. Yah well, bikes have an oil bath clutch and will endure a lot of abuse with no issues. Using the rear brake when manuevering in tight places works very well. I probably knew most of my faults but was just too lazy to change for the better/safer. I also read Proficient Motorcycling a couple years ago and got a lot from it. The training course took it to actual practice with a very observant instructor. You can teach an old dog new tricks with a little effort and reasons to learn proper technique. There are a lot of little things that come to mind when riding that I was never aware of before the course. Never trust your mirrors entirely. Always do a shoulder check before initiating a turn, you never know when some one will try to sneak past you. Alway scan left to right every few seconds, this is a must with wildlife. We get deer and bears right in town so it can't hurt. Being in the outdoors capital of Canada is a hoot but can be dangerous. All manner of moving things on the roads and stuff that falls off of them. This is where avoidance manuevering comes into play.
As for the price of the training. It was a bargain with what I learned.The cheapest life insurance you will ever buy.

[NB250]

Well, after considering all the advice I've received here and from friends, I've decided to take the course. Although the price seems steep, I (hopefully) have about 30 years left of biking so it makes it seem like a good investment.

I'll let you know how it goes...

[Water Warrior 2]

Dupo mentioned looking through the curve and not directly in front of the bike. Total agreement there. Looking through the curve and where you want to end up is the best way to add pleasure to the ride. I have watched Lynda in curvy sections and the GZ acts like it is on rails. Just so very smooth and well balanced due to rider observation and input at the right time. Even on a straight rode you need to look further down the road. Avoiding road hazards/pot holes/fire wood/garbage/animals is a full time job. Ride Safe.

[NB250]

Ok...day 2 of the course is down with 2 more to go. So far, it's been very basic but not too bad. A few people in the course have never even sat on a bike before so they are working more with them.

On a side note, I was using a Kawasaki Eliminator (which was I think a 125 or 250) and wow, did it seem small even compared to the gz250. Are the gz's a larger bike than most other 250cc motorcycles?

[patrick_777]

A little larger. Depends on your perspective I guess. Most people I meet ask me if it's a 600 and they're genuinely surprised and impressed that it's a 250.

[Easy Rider]

Are the gz's a larger bike than most other 250cc motorcycles?

Based only on casual observation:
I think it is slightly bigger.......but LOOKS bigger still because of the large tires and fenders.

[alanmcorcoran]

If you have insurance and a registration, they let you (actually recommend) ride your own bike down here (CA). Assuming it is a 350 or under (which the GZ qualifies for.) Just make sure you gas it up before you go. As you have probably figured, you spend a lot of time sitting on it with the engine running.

[music man]

A Kawasaki Eliminator is a 125cc bike, and yes the GZ is a little bigger than your average 250. :rawk:

[Water Warrior 2]

Are the gz's a larger bike than most other 250cc motorcycles?

Based only on casual observation:
I think it is slightly bigger.......but LOOKS bigger still because of the large tires and fenders.

The larger tank and general lines of the bike also say Big. The Virago looks really skinny and frail in comparison. The Rebel just looks ho-hum. We have a winner here.

[NB250]

Well the bike course is done and overall I'm happy I took it. Mostly for the slow speed riding and turns which I never practiced before.

[alanmcorcoran]

:horse:

Now spend 25 bucks more and treat yourself to Proficient Motorcycling (get the new 2008 edition...)

[goneoutflying]

If you live in Florida You are now required to take the course to get your motorcycle endorsement. I took the class the same week that the law went into effect at the beginning of July 2008. I paid $225 however they do offer financial aid to those who can't afford it.

[plskthompson1]

I'm new to this bike thing I ride behind my husband but now I got me a bike and I'm looking at taking the course ! can someone out there tell me a little about what i need to learn and what i need to get started? Thanks
O_o my name is Doris!

[alanmcorcoran]

The courses vary from state to state so you should check with your fellow Tennesseans (?) To get started typically all you need is a reservation, a long sleeve shirt, long pants, some money and a MC permit, but, again, this varies from state to state. There are a number of threads on here that include opinions as to the merits of the courses. Most members rate the courses very valuable. I thought they were somewhat overrated and inefficient. I think the sooner in your MC career you take one, the more useful it is.

[mole2]

Hi Doris. I'm a newbie myself having taken the MSF course in SC in January and gotten my license. I found the course very useful for the slow speed control drills in addition to the general riding aspect. It will all depend on your instructors but I must say the two we had were great. Plus we had a small class which meant more practice time and more personal observation. I would recommend the course especially as a new operator. Good luck!

:2tup:

[Water Warrior 2]

Hi Doris. I would recommend the course especially as a new operator. Good luck!

:2tup:
I would recommend the course as an old operator. I probably rode for the first time when I was 12 years old. Waited 50 years for riding lessons. Bikes really are easier to operate at low speeds if you know what to do.

[bonehead]

Texas just mandated (sep 1) that anyone applying for a motorcycle license has to have a MSF cert.