View Full Version : Spent 15 min directing traffic last night....
So I'm coming home from a friends place last night....
In my car. No license yet....
I happenned upon a car+dog+motorcycle wreck that happened about 45 sec before I got there. Dog was dead. I couldnt tell which car that was stopped hit the bike. That tells ya something. Pieces of the bike's plastic are everywhere. Rider is trying to get up and is on one knee in the middle of the road. (shorts and t-shirt) Bike is in the ditch. Big Goldwing looking thing...
I turned my car around and used it to deflect traffic away from the scene and waved cars around. Others were helping the rider to his feet and off the road. Others were calling 911.
Not sure what happenned. But while I was waving the cars around, about a dozen bikes rode by. Thurs is bike night at many places in town. One of which is just down the road. Not a single rider was wearing a helmet. Or anything else that I could see would do for protection. The looks on their faces as they saw that it can happen were interesting....
Comike14
08-29-2008, 12:03 PM
So I'm coming home from a friends place last night....
In my car. No license yet....
I happenned upon a car+dog+motorcycle wreck that happened about 45 sec before I got there. Dog was dead. I couldnt tell which car that was stopped hit the bike. That tells ya something. Pieces of the bike's plastic are everywhere. Rider is trying to get up and is on one knee in the middle of the road. (shorts and t-shirt) Bike is in the ditch. Big Goldwing looking thing...
I turned my car around and used it to deflect traffic away from the scene and waved cars around. Others were helping the rider to his feet and off the road. Others were calling 911.
Not sure what happenned. But while I was waving the cars around, about a dozen bikes rode by. Thurs is bike night at many places in town. One of which is just down the road. Not a single rider was wearing a helmet. Or anything else that I could see would do for protection. The looks on their faces as they saw that it can happen were interesting....
First, good for you for stepping up and taking action like that. Not enough people do.
Second, what a dummy! Shorts and t-shirt?! No helmet? Lucky bastard to be *trying* to get up, if you ask me. Do you know if he was OK?
He was standing when I left. But he sure didnt look comfortable. Looked kind of stuck in a half bent over stance.
The fact that with the help of 2 others he made it to a nearby driveway was a good sign. He was in the turning lane of a 4 lane road when he was trying to get up. The bike was in the ditch.
Thats pretty far from the bike.
I couldnt see that he was bleeding. He could be the luckiest S.O.B. there is. Looked like he was in his late 40's to early 50's.
Comike14
08-29-2008, 02:10 PM
Hope he IS alright. From experience, it's easy to get up and walk away initially, then find out just a few minutes later something's broken. That's why I never move immediately after something like that--I wait for pain to hit so I know where to take it easy.
But yeah, would serve him a good lesson if he lost a little skin on that one.
rusty rider
08-30-2008, 09:14 AM
But yeah, would serve him a good lesson if he lost a little skin on that one.
He is a fellow biker, I wish him no ill because of what he chooses to wear or not to wear riding a motorcycle.
Remember riding a motorcycle with Harley Davidson doesn't make you anymore superior than riding a GZ.
Wearing ATGATT doesn't make you anymore superior than the guy wearing shorts and t-shirt.
Wearing ATGATT doesn't make you anymore superior than the guy wearing shorts and t-shirt.
Depends what you mean by "superior" I think.
There's certainly an argument that you've got a brain cell or 2 up on the daredevil.
IMHO anyway.
Easy Rider
08-30-2008, 09:58 AM
Depends what you mean by "superior" I think.
Hmmmm. Don't really care for that tone, thank you. :cuss:
It pains me that the "government" in this so-called free country thinks it is necessary to tell mature adults what they can and can not do, over and above the laws necessary for an orderly society, that is. And I certainly don't need other individuals trying to do that.
So, ride your bike like you want and I will do the same.......but I will not call your intelligence into question if you elect to do it differently than I.......and I'd appreciate it if you would give me the same courtesy.
I don't think the government need be involved either.
And I understand the "how much risk are you willing to accept" thing.
I was clear to state that it was my humble opinion only. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. If someone wants to smoke at the gas pump go ahead. Hopefully nothing happens. Want to run with scissors? Have fun!
Not decisions I would make. And to me it says something about a persons thought process.
I dont think its indicative of intelligence. I think people that do the above things are well aware of the risks they are taking.
We can agree to disagree. No problems here.
alanmcorcoran
08-30-2008, 12:34 PM
...if you think about it, even a little bit, riding a motorcycle under any circumstances is an unnecessary risk. The last thing we want to do is endorse a value system that rewards reducing or eliminating risk altogether or we will soon find ourselves wearing helmets in padded strollers pushed around by our Mommies. (Hmmm, why does that sound kind of... interesting?)
FYI, if you read the statistics, a helmet and gear may reduce your chances of death or serious injury, but they don't guarantee it. I don't remember the exact number, but in one of the Hough books it said something like 45% of motorcylist fatalities WERE wearing a helmet. I wear all the stuff all the time, but I don't begrudge the helmetless, or the big bike riders, or even the wheely-iers, for their choices don't infringe on me and, frankly, if I had a bigger pair, I'd likely be one of them.
I like shooting guns too, and I'd smoke pot if it were legal. Neither one of those is going to win any citizenship awards either. When I was younger, I was taught that this is what America is all about.
Rock on, Easy! To each his own!
Yep. I agree with that too.
Helmets dont make us invincible.
People die in car crashes everyday too.
I like shooting too. Its good fun. Weed? Usually makes me sick..... Not sure why. I wish it didnt. :) None of that stuff strikes me as "dangerous". Unless I'm letting my high buddies try and shoot an apple off my head. That seems like a risk not worth taking though.
I'm with ya on the "it doesnt infringe on me" thing too. Unless a motorcyclist hits me its not going to bother me any. And I'd rather they hit me with less gear on. They are squishier that way I'm sure. Less damage to me.
:)
Easy Rider
08-30-2008, 02:08 PM
And to me it says something about a persons thought process.
Indeed it does. And that subject might make for an interesting conversation.......in a different venue.
This kind of exchange often doesn't do well in THIS kind of forum.
Too much opportunity for misunderstandings.......as we have seen already. ;)
I don't think it was you but I think somebody in this thread DID say, in effect, they probably got what they deserved......for not wearing gear. Now THAT is a sad commentary on how a person's thought processes work, to come to that conclusion and THEN to express it in a public forum. :cry:
Easy Rider
08-30-2008, 02:12 PM
...we will soon find ourselves wearing helmets in padded strollers pushed around by our Mommies. (Hmmm, why does that sound kind of... interesting?)
Hey......you tryin' to steal some of my "creepy" points !?!?! :roll:
:lol:
I don't think it was you but I think somebody in this thread DID say, in effect, they probably got what they deserved......
No, that wasnt me.
You're right. Its probably not the best conversation to have here.
And I wont be one to push it on anyone. That was never my intention.
It's all good. :tup:
We all do what we do. And we hope our life works out the way we want it to.
:rawk:
Comike14
09-03-2008, 02:45 PM
But yeah, would serve him a good lesson if he lost a little skin on that one.
He is a fellow biker, I wish him no ill because of what he chooses to wear or not to wear riding a motorcycle.
Remember riding a motorcycle with Harley Davidson doesn't make you anymore superior than riding a GZ.
Wearing ATGATT doesn't make you anymore superior than the guy wearing shorts and t-shirt.
I don't wish harm on anyone, and I'm not trying to sound superior. I just totaled my own bike, thanks.
People learn lessons, and most learn through experience. If you touch a hot burner once, you won't do it again. Hoping that he learned a lesson is actually to his benefit rather than to his detriment.
And ATGATT wouldn't make me any more superior, it would just make me more likely to NOT have skin grafts.
patrick_777
09-03-2008, 02:48 PM
...or the wire brush scrubbing.
Water Warrior 2
09-03-2008, 07:58 PM
I really get a chill down my back when I see the lack of gear on some riders. Oh well, it is their choice so I do not say a word. Neither Lynda or I can ride without ATGATT. It is just habit no matter where we ride or for how long. I have also been wearing seat belts in cages since 1966 but that is just me.
LilNinja77
09-03-2008, 10:24 PM
People learn lessons, and most learn through experience. If you touch a hot burner once, you won't do it again. Hoping that he learned a lesson is actually to his benefit rather than to his detriment.
You said it right Cornmike. As someone who has probably come off as one of those "I'm better 'cause I wear gear" people...........which I'm NOT, I just have a big mouth that tends to occasionally move faster than my brain :whistle: , I don't think that wearing gear really makes anyone more "superior"......eh, perhaps a wee-bit more aware of potential bloodloss. I will say though, that my experience is that an astonishingly high percentage of people simply aren't smart enough to learn from their own mistakes.....maybe I've just run in to a lot of dumb people or something, I dunno. My motto is this:
"Learn from your mistakes, but even better, learn from the mistakes of others. You just don't live long enough to make them all yourself!" .......YMMV :lol:
patrick_777
09-03-2008, 10:32 PM
You said it right Cornmike.
:haha2: :crackup
As someone who has probably come off as one of those "I'm better 'cause I wear gear" people...........
More like "I'm better 'cause I wear LEATHER"... ;)
I will say though, that my experience is that an astonishingly high percentage of people simply aren't smart enough to learn from their own mistakes.....maybe I've just run in to a lot of dumb people or something, I dunno. My motto is this:
"Learn from your mistakes, but even better, learn from the mistakes of others. You just don't live long enough to make them all yourself!"
I have talked to lot of people around here with road rash scars who still squid around in a tank and flip-flops. Those people are the donors.
I also try to learn from the mistakes of others...that's why I'm not married.
Newbiker08
09-04-2008, 12:29 AM
Hope he IS alright. From experience, it's easy to get up and walk away initially, then find out just a few minutes later something's broken. That's why I never move immediately after something like that--I wait for pain to hit so I know where to take it easy.
I believe it was in Proficient Motorcycling that Hough said to immediatly get up and get your butt out the road. Then lay down and then determine your situation. Wouldn't want to survive a wreck to get run over by the car that wasn't watching.
alanmcorcoran
09-04-2008, 02:12 AM
I also try to learn from the mistakes of others...that's why I'm not married.
You're welcome!
Orpheus
09-04-2008, 03:19 AM
Depends what you mean by "superior" I think.
Hmmmm. Don't really care for that tone, thank you. :cuss:
It pains me that the "government" in this so-called free country thinks it is necessary to tell mature adults what they can and can not do, over and above the laws necessary for an orderly society, that is. And I certainly don't need other individuals trying to do that.
So, ride your bike like you want and I will do the same.......but I will not call your intelligence into question if you elect to do it differently than I.......and I'd appreciate it if you would give me the same courtesy.
I agree and disagree with you here.
The government's job in any society should be to make itself obsolete, whereby the general populace has the ability to make a rational and informed decision without the intervention of the government at all (some sort of a global anarchy seems that it should be the goal of all governments, I think). I am completely against most laws similar to the helmet and seatbelt requirements (I'm also for the legalization of all drugs and prostitution, but that's a topic for another thread), but at the same time, any informed and rational driver/rider should see that the chances of serious injury drastically decrease when wearing a helmet or seatbelt and make his/her decision accordingly.
alanmcorcoran
09-04-2008, 03:43 AM
The chances of serious injury decrease further if you just sit on it in the garage. Let's face it, part of the fun of riding is that little voice in the back of your brain that says, "If I don't stay focused on the task at hand, my organs are gonna be decorating this highway. " And then, "Yee-HAH!"
I'm wearing all the stuff right now, and probably always will, but I'd like to be able to have the option to ride the thing naked legally if I get a hankerin'... I understand the whole insurance business and the notion that everyone has a right to medical treatment, regardless of income or stupidity, kind of mucks up the personal freedom picture, but I think once you put a premium on "safety" a whole lot of fun shit goes out the window (including your prostitutes and drugs.)
My brothers and I used to launch metal trash cans with M80's when we were kids. There's really no redeeming value for this activity, but it is one of my fondest childhood memories. That, and firecracker fights. There's no accounting for the depths of depravity that boys find entertaining.
A lot of the "fun" stuff that you use as examples. Drugs, prostitution, firecrackers, etc.... Is a HELLUVA lot safer than laying a bike down at 35mph with no gear on. (I'd imagine)
To me they are in 2 completely different categories.
You can still be a crazy mofo and live a full, fun, unstifled life doing numerous things that the squares wouldnt dream of all while wearing your gear on the bike.
Of course I do hope it'll always be your own choice whether or not to do so. It just surprises me the life or death risks that many bikers take. There's living, and there's giving death the midle finger every day.
LilNinja77
09-04-2008, 08:51 AM
LilNinja77 wrote:
You said it right Cornmike.
Ok Ok I have friggin' horrible eyesight...........let me correct myself, uhum :
"You said it right Comike"
There, is that a little better? :tongue:
And on the leather note.......like I said, I have a big fast moving mouth, and sometimes it's not the most brilliant of speakers. And I DO believe I've apologized at least once for my previous soapbox speeches.......thank you very much. :biggrin:
Easy Rider
09-04-2008, 10:27 AM
......but at the same time, any informed and rational driver/rider should see that the chances of serious injury drastically decrease when wearing a helmet or seatbelt and make his/her decision accordingly.
Well, there you go making a value judgement and trying to assign attributes to a person based only on ONE decision he has made. The implication of your statement above is: Anyone who chooses to ride without gear is either uninformed or irrational. I contend that neither is necessarily true. It is not your place to judge me.
But isnt it also true that its not your place to judge his characterization of someone displaying such behavior?
The best we'll get is agreeing to disagree.
Its a bit one sided to say "you dont get to judge me". All opinions are equally valuable.
The people that look at someone playing russian roulette and shake their heads in disbelief can have their opinion that the guy with the gun up to his head isnt making very responsible decisions. Just like the guy with the gun can think that the odds are in his favor that he wont hurt himself.
Easy Rider
09-04-2008, 10:58 AM
Its a bit one sided to say "you dont get to judge me". All opinions are equally valuable.
The people that look at someone playing russian roulette
Sorry but that logic is somewhat warped.
When it comes to ME, the only opinion that counts is MINE.
You can think whatever you want but it is not always appropriate to express it in public.
If you are going to be openly critical of a whole group of people, you'd better be ready to take some flack.
Your analogy with russian roulette is a pretty big stretch.
Opinions that dont match mine arent flack. They are just that, opinions that dont match mine. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. And I'm fine with them telling me about it.
I'm not of the mindset that if you arent going along with the crowd then dont express yourself. Thats for the lemmings. Someone mentioned the "american Way" or something similar. Freedom of expressing ones opinions is another one that falls in that category.
Your analogy with russian roulette is a pretty big stretch.
I dont think so. When I see a dude riding a motorcycle doing 80mph on the interstate wearing jeans and a t-shirt it seems very similar to russian roulette.
You dont have to agree with me.
And you are right, I shouldnt be telling you what to do. And I'm not. My point here is you shouldnt be telling me how to think either.
Isnt that fair?
Comike14
09-04-2008, 11:49 AM
Nobody should be telling anybody what to do. I don't see that here.
A forum is a place of opinion and, most often, circular argument. I say it's stupid to cruise with nothing other than flip-flops, shorts, and a t-shirt. I say so because my own experience tells me that, as does common sense. And every time I see someone doing that, I shake my head and think, "I hope that poor guy doesn't leave a 30-foot long skin trail if he goes down."
Shoot flak at me for thinking that--I can take it. And if you don't wear the right gear, I DO think you're being stupid. That's all there is to it.
What he said.
Doesnt mean we cant communicate. Or be friends. (even if just virtual friends sharing an interest)
To me its like smoking. I think its stupid. I think my own mother is an idiot for doing it. And I've told her. But its her choice. And I love her.
I'm allowed to express my opinion just like she's allowed to smoke.
Easy Rider
09-04-2008, 12:51 PM
And if you don't wear the right gear, I DO think you're being stupid. That's all there is to it.
And so we come full circle......right back to where we started.
You can think anything you damn well please......and you can say anything you please but doing so in a public forum where you should KNOW that some people are present who match the disdain you are expressing is, IMHO, rude, nasty and condescending. :skull:
If that's the impression you intend to convey, then by all means go ahead and critisize.
If it is NOT the impression you intend to convey, you should reconsider the wording of your remarks.
It IS possible to advocate one position WITHOUT putting down those who may not agree as "stupid, crazy, ignorant, etc. ".
One BIG problem with this lately though. The political leaders of this country, who should be role models and examples of good behavior, don't seem to get the concept and, by example, are teaching a lot of impressionable young people (and some old ones too) that the only way to disagree is to sling mud and fight. Sad. :cry:
Comike14
09-04-2008, 02:41 PM
Easy Rider, the beginning of my post said that all forum debates are circular. I don't expect anyone to change their minds.
And no, I don't wish to or feel the need to re-word myself. If someone rides in flip-flops, shorts, and a t-shirt, I think they're making a poor decision... IE being stupid. That's how I feel--not how I expect everyone else to feel, and I won't soften that statement because someone might find it rude or offensive--it's a statement that deals with, ultimately, the quality of someone's life, if they survive an accident. No, I won't back it down, and no, I won't sugar-coat my impressions of irresponsible riders.
patrick_777
09-04-2008, 03:01 PM
Don't make us lock this thread.
Comike14
09-04-2008, 03:31 PM
Patrick,
I'm simply stating how I feel it is irresponsible to not protect yourself on the road. God knows no one else is looking out for you. If people are offended by such a suggestion, then that isn't my prerogative. Besides, no mud-slinging going on yet. Strong opinions, yes, but that's the point of a forum and, as others have stated, free-opinion forums are great but you better be ready to handle what people can dish.
I have no intention of trolling, trash-talking, spamming, or anything of the like. I just feel very strongly about this subject.
patrick_777
09-04-2008, 03:34 PM
I wasn't just talking to you, either. It was a warning.
I have no intention of trolling, trash-talking, spamming, or anything of the like.
Ditto.
It wouldnt do any good anyway. Just pisses people off.
But the alternative isn't to stifle opinions. We can all speak our minds and sometimes people will agree, sometimes they wont. As long as people arent bashing folks I dont see the problem.
If the only opinion thats welcome here is that "Hey man, its cool!" then just say so.
patrick_777
09-04-2008, 04:08 PM
If the only opinion that's welcome here is that "Hey man, its cool!" then just say so.
The thread is still open, and don't read too much into a general warning. I'm not trying to stifle opinion here. These threads can go bad very quickly and that was(?) the general heading of this one.
This isn't my first rodeo. :banana:
alanmcorcoran
09-04-2008, 04:37 PM
When I was trying to keep my own forums alive, I would periodically throw some gas on the fire - call someone a doody head or disparage the size of... well you get the picture. It was sort of a joke, but it worked everytime. Just seems to be built into our nature. Didn't really improve the forum, though...
Personally, I enjoy a good verbal sparring, 'cause in any other kind I would get my ass handed to me. But it seems like we have beaten this horse to death.
Easy Rider
09-04-2008, 04:39 PM
I just feel very strongly about this subject.
And I think you can find a way to experss that without calling people "stupid".
When you say, in effect, anybody that rides without a helmet is STUPID, I take personal offense.
You seem to be defending your right to call me stupid in THIS public forum.
I don't think you are qualified to label me stupid.
I don't give a good flying crap what anybody else does as far as wearing gear or not.
I understand that you DO but that doesn't give you any right, in a forum that tries to be civil, to be throwing around insults.
:curse:
I quit. If you can't understand what I am saying, then I think you are being stupid. :neener: :biggrin:
mrlmd1
09-04-2008, 04:48 PM
Yeah for Patrick. That's what admins and moderators are for. To keep us on track, prevent the impression that we are out to "get" or ridicule one another, keep the conversation civil but allow us all to express an opinion. Way to go Patrick!
Usually there is a right and a wrong way to do things, or a safe and unsafe way, but since we are all 'adults" here, we each make our own choices in life after weighing the risk/benefit ratio and have to live (or die) by those decisions. Just also think once in a while of your loved ones and not always of yourself when you choose. We can end this discussion here any time or we can keep going around in circles and keep rehashing the same thing. The best advice is to be well informed or educated and then make your own best decision, no matter what the subject is, rather than relying on emotions only. Like for the upcoming election, and let's please not go there.
I'll be wearing all my gear when I vote.
:)
Comike14
09-04-2008, 05:04 PM
I just feel very strongly about this subject.
And I think you can find a way to experss that without calling people "stupid".
When you say, in effect, anybody that rides without a helmet is STUPID, I take personal offense.
You seem to be defending your right to call me stupid in THIS public forum.
I don't think you are qualified to label me stupid.
I don't give a good flying crap what anybody else does as far as wearing gear or not.
I understand that you DO but that doesn't give you any right, in a forum that tries to be civil, to be throwing around insults.
:curse:
I quit. If you can't understand what I am saying, then I think you are being stupid. :neener: :biggrin:
I'm sorry if you're taking personal offense to my opinion. That isn't my intent, and if you do take personal offense, then that's your decision, not mine. I didn't direct anything towards you, or make statements that directly accused you of anything. I didn't throw around insults, and I certainly didn't fire off directed attacks. I don't dislike you, even though you may have taken a dislike to me for my adamant views on the subject. I suppose it goes with the territory of feeling strongly about something.
I only care about what people wear because I do consider them fellow riders. I care about what happens to them. I know from experience, and from losing more than one friend's life, that not wearing the right gear is a quick way to a lot of pain, and I don't like to see that. If that insults you, then so be it. But remember that you choose to be insulted. Just know that I also care about what happens to you.
Yeah for Patrick. That's what admins and moderators are for. To keep us on track, prevent the impression that we are out to "get" or ridicule one another, keep the conversation civil but allow us all to express an opinion. Way to go Patrick!
Usually there is a right and a wrong way to do things, or a safe and unsafe way, but since we are all 'adults" here, we each make our own choices in life after weighing the risk/benefit ratio and have to live (or die) by those decisions. Just also think once in a while of your loved ones and not always of yourself when you choose. We can end this discussion here any time or we can keep going around in circles and keep rehashing the same thing. The best advice is to be well informed or educated and then make your own best decision, no matter what the subject is, rather than relying on emotions only. Like for the upcoming election, and let's please not go there.
Yes, I agree. I run a few forums of my own, and know that the job of an Admin (and Mod) is to keep things running smoothly, and prevent some members from preying on the community. I respect that, and also respect the need to keep a good balance between debate and moderating. If things tip too far in either direction, you're looking at needless drama in a hurry.
As for your point about being adults and making our own decisions, I agree completely. Hell, I don't like that there're laws about drugs. If I want to put some chemical in my body, I should be allowed to do so, as long as it only affects me. Same is true for helmets. If people don't want to wear helmets, I don't think the state should tell them they have to, or seat belts, for that matter. It only affects you (and possibly the family you leave behind, but that's another post for another time). And I am NOT being sarcastic, I really don't like the government telling me what to do. I had to wait 45 days just to be able to carry around my Glock.
I just feel strongly on a personal level about the riding gear for reasons outlined above. And I think that when most reasonable people have their own brushes with those reasons, they'll feel equally as strong. But I'm new here, and if this is a dead horse, we don't need to beat it.
Moedad
09-04-2008, 05:24 PM
I really don't like the government telling me what to do. I had to wait 45 days just to be able to carry around my Glock.
Could be a lot worse. You could live in California, where Alan is a doodyhead :biggrin: , and it generally takes months to be approved to carry your Glock, IF you're approved at all.
Comike14
09-04-2008, 05:28 PM
I really don't like the government telling me what to do. I had to wait 45 days just to be able to carry around my Glock.
Could be a lot worse. You could live in California, where Alan is a doodyhead :biggrin: , and it generally takes months to be approved to carry your Glock, IF you're approved at all.
Ouch. At least here in Virginia, if you don't get an answer within 45 days, you're issues a De Facto permit good until the court gives its final decision.
But in California, helmets aren't mandatory and you can ride between the lanes... ;)
Moedad
09-04-2008, 05:31 PM
But in California, helmets aren't mandatory and you can ride between the lanes... ;)
You're half right. Helmets ARE mandatory.
You're half right. Helmets ARE mandatory.
FASCIST!!!!!
:lol:
rusty rider
09-04-2008, 05:43 PM
Yesterday when riding home from my trip the wind started kicking up, and getting over cast. So I briefly pulled over to the side of the road to zip my jacket up all the way. As I was pulled over a biker going the other direction started slowing down, I waved at him to let him know I was ok, and he gave me the thumbs up on his way past.
With out exaggeration (sic) Labor day on my way south I must have passed 300 to 400 bikes. I thought that there must be a rally around Nashville, IN because there were so many bikes out. In Bloomington I met up with an older fella wearing shorts, biker boot chap combo, that can best be described as looking like waders, a vest with a big indian logo, do rag. He pulled up next to me at a light and struck a conversation with me. Now I'm wearing my jacket, helmet, jeans and boots. We rode to together about 30 miles, and when it came for me to turn we gave each other a wave. We are all brothers and sisters on the road, I may have had an 18 year hiatus from riding but I have never forgotten what it means to be a biker.
I also don't agree with many of the comments on this thread, but I strongly agree with your right to say them. :cool:
The biggest freedom of all is listening to someone and being able to disagree with him.
Openly.
Once we lose that its over.
Moedad
09-04-2008, 06:02 PM
You're half right. Helmets ARE mandatory.
FASCIST!!!!!
:lol:
Hey, I didn't make the law! That said, I'd wear one anyway. My nephew rides a dual sport and wears ATGATT and when someone teases him, he says, "Have you ever been hit by a car? I have (and he HAS)." That's about it for comments.
patrick_777
09-04-2008, 06:08 PM
Once we lose that its over.
http://www.idlerants.com/images/banned.jpg
:biggrin:
Moedad
09-04-2008, 07:02 PM
I was just kidding.
:)
I know - I saw the rolling laughing smilie. It's all good.
Easy Rider
09-04-2008, 07:20 PM
But remember that you choose to be insulted.
Let me get this straight......you should be able to say anything you want about anybody and if they are offended then it is THEIR fault ??? :shocked: Utter B.S.
So.....let's get down to serious business. I have EXTREMELY STRONG feelings about people who feel it is somehow necessary to carry a deadly weapon around with them all the time.......and also feel a need to brag about it in unrelated forums.
Would you like to hear what names I sometimes use to characterize people who do that?
No, we're not going to do that here but it is only slightly different than saying people who don't wear helmets are stupid.
Moedad
09-04-2008, 09:00 PM
I have EXTREMELY STRONG feelings about people who feel it is somehow necessary to carry a deadly weapon around with them all the time.
Well, what good is a non-deadly weapon?
BTW, that's a very good comparison, the helmet and the gun thing.
LilNinja77
09-05-2008, 12:08 AM
Dear me, this IS getting interesting. Where's the smiley that's eating a bag of popcorn? I really hope this isn't going to blow up in to a multi-subject flame war, especially since the subjects that have been brought up are just a wee-bit touchy to both sides of the coin. Next thing you know racial or political slurs are going to be flying. Seriously, one of the great attributes I've seen in this place is the overwhelming civility and friendliness that it normally exhibits. Let this thing go for crying out loud before someone really DOES get offended and/or banned.
Patrick, are you regretting accepting that admin position yet? I stick with what I said before, just try not to get too stressed out.
Arthur-----hoping this isn't going to turn in to another forum where everyone has to walk on egg-shells to avoid offending someone and/or being yelled at......and who readily admits to having taken part in said yelling, and having recieved said yelling----- Just my .02
Ride safe
patrick_777
09-05-2008, 12:37 AM
Patrick, are you regretting accepting that admin position yet?
Naw, this is pretty light from a lot of places I've been. It won't get out of hand.
Water Warrior 2
09-05-2008, 01:30 AM
This is one of the more civilized forums and I have visited a fair bunch in the last couple years. There is rarely bad language and we accept the right to agree to disagree with another's views without throwing stones. Most members here have a mature attitude towards riding and life in general.
I've been in plenty of crappy forums too. For a little while anyway. This is nothing. Just a few people who dont share the same opinion.
I doubt it gets out of hand too. It would have already if it were going to.
BTW, that's a very good comparison, the helmet and the gun thing.
Was that sarcasm?
Comike14
09-05-2008, 11:06 AM
Let this thing go for crying out loud before someone really DOES get offended and/or banned.
That's exactly what I intend to do.
Easy Rider,
If you want to continue the conversation, we can discuss it in PMs.
Easy Rider
09-05-2008, 11:59 AM
Easy Rider,
If you want to continue the conversation, we can discuss it in PMs.
Thanks but no, I REALLY didn't want it to turn into a "conversation" in the first place.
Moedad
09-05-2008, 12:53 PM
BTW, that's a very good comparison, the helmet and the gun thing.
Was that sarcasm?
No, not at all. Both subjects draw strong feelings, both from people who are involved and those who aren't. Both tend to be misunderstood by those who don't partake. Both are lifestyle choices that have inherent risks. Both have sensible, mature people who are passionate about each, and both have knuckleheads who give the mature folks a bad name. It is an excellent comparison.
I'm still a relative noobie here, but know this: I am not one to stir up hate and discontent on purpose by being sarcastic or anything else that might be construed as negative, and if it occurs by accident, let this be a blanket statement that it is never my intent to ruffle feelings. If I put up a post it will either be sincere, or goofy, or both, but it will never be purposefully belittling or insulting. If I call Alan a doody head like I did a few posts earlier in this thread, it's only because I like his sense of humor and I think he won't be offended, and cuz I bet I'm a bigger doody head.
Gotcha.
I thought you were comparing the inherent risk of being in possession of a deadly weapon to riding a motorcycle without protective gear.
Yeah, both are going to be very opinionated subjects alright!
Moedad
09-05-2008, 02:09 PM
I thought you were comparing the inherent risk of being in possession of a deadly weapon to riding a motorcycle without protective gear.
Mostly I was comparing the views held by the general public on the subject of guns and motorcycles. I think the public is generally suspiscious of folks that do one or the other. Obviously there are variations, depending on the kind of bike/rider or firearm being discussed, or what part of the country you're in.
Water Warrior 2
09-05-2008, 09:47 PM
Thanks to news reporting and movies the general public learns to dislike certain groups without ever meeting any of them.
I dont blame the news. I blame what should be free thinking morons who dont bother to form their own opinions.
alanmcorcoran
09-06-2008, 05:55 AM
I bet I'm a bigger doody head.
That goes without saying.
Just once, I'd like to have something that's the biggest, but I guess it's just not in the cards for me.
Orpheus
09-10-2008, 03:52 AM
......but at the same time, any informed and rational driver/rider should see that the chances of serious injury drastically decrease when wearing a helmet or seatbelt and make his/her decision accordingly.
Well, there you go making a value judgement and trying to assign attributes to a person based only on ONE decision he has made. The implication of your statement above is: Anyone who chooses to ride without gear is either uninformed or irrational. I contend that neither is necessarily true. It is not your place to judge me.
Okay, this topic is pretty much dead, but I haven't had a chance to respond yet.
I did not make any kind of value judgement about wearing a helmet; I simply stated that there is a higher chance of serious injury when not wearing a helmet and that an informed and rational rider would make a decision according to his or her assessment of the situation. I didn't call you a doody-head or anything like that.
I occasionally ride without a helmet but it's 1) on roads that have a speed limit of 25 or lower and 2) roads that see little or no traffic. I have judged these to be acceptable risks for riding a motorcycle without a helmet. Others will judge other situations to be safe.
The analogies about wearing a helmet so far have somehow avoided the obvious comparison to wearing a condom when having sex with random men/women/whatever floats your boat. If the condom represents your helmet and the bike is... the obvious thingy, riding all the time without a helmet would pretty much be equivalent to doing it with everyone you see on the roads on any given day; riding sometimes with a helmet is kind of like screening the "sleeping partners" and wearing a helmet all the time is eqivalent to wearing a jimmy all the time. What do you think is safest? Like I said, I fit in the "sometimes" category, but I ain't sayin that I'm the smartest rider, either. Remember: NFL players only have to worry about colliding with other human beings at running speed and they still get concussions and broken necks; imagine what happens when you hit a car at 35mph (or the other way around).
Easy Rider
09-10-2008, 11:53 AM
The analogies about wearing a helmet so far have somehow avoided the obvious comparison to wearing a condom when having sex
NFL players only have to worry about colliding with other human beings at running speed
Both rather interesting analogies but in both cases, the "helmet" is there to "protect" you from something that is the "object of the game"! :biggrin:
I believe helmets are a good thing but I don't think it is government's place to mandate personal safety. That's pretty much it for me.
I have been extremely lucky in my 40 years of riding but I don't think it is all luck. I've had only ONE bike accident and that was in a parking lot at 3 mph, 38 years ago. Only one cage crash too and that was 43 years ago. Serious defensive driving is the key. To a large extent, one makes their own "luck".
So......I ride with a brain bucket about half the time. Always on the highway and always in unfamiliar territory. Puttering around town, mostly not. Is that a bad choice? Maybe but it is neither uninformed nor irrational and despite the hype some would throw around, it affects nobody but ME.
Comike14
09-11-2008, 12:22 PM
I believe helmets are a good thing but I don't think it is government's place to mandate personal safety. That's pretty much it for me...
I agree with you 100% on that.
...it is neither uninformed nor irrational and despite the hype some would throw around, it affects nobody but ME.
[/quote]
And on that. Though my fiance would argue that it affects her, and our potential future children. But when you're on the road with no helmet, it isn't like driving drunk--you aren't putting other people at risk.
And I'm not just being a "yes man" here. I still have strong views, but I also feel strongly about people (government) telling me what to do when it only affects me.
Easy Rider
09-11-2008, 03:15 PM
Though my fiance would argue that it affects her, and our potential future children.
Each situation is different. If and when she becomes your WIFE, then I will be the first one to tell you that you had better do what she says.......and you will be stupid if you don't. I learned that about 39.5 years ago. :biggrin:
Comike14
09-11-2008, 03:41 PM
Though my fiance would argue that it affects her, and our potential future children.
Each situation is different. If and when she becomes your WIFE, then I will be the first one to tell you that you had better do what she says.......and you will be stupid if you don't. I learned that about 39.5 years ago. :biggrin:
Haha! I learned that lesson before I considered buying a ring! I also learned that it doesn't matter how logical the argument is--I will never actually win.
:crutches:
Aint that the truth.
One of my favorite movie lines, from "As Good As It Gets"
Jack Nicholson's character, a writer, is asked how he writes women so well. His answer"
"Easy, I think of a man, then I throw out reason and accountability."
rusty rider
09-11-2008, 11:08 PM
My wife made an agreement before we got married.
I get to make all the big decisions! :rawk:
She gets to make all the little decisions! :shocked:
18 + years later, we've yet to have any big decisions. :cry:
Comike14
09-12-2008, 09:29 AM
My wife made an agreement before we got married.
I get to make all the big decisions! :rawk:
She gets to make all the little decisions! :shocked:
18 + years later, we've yet to have any big decisions. :cry:
Ha! Forgot where I heard that before... but it seems to be a common theme! What have I gotten myself in to?? :lol:
Magnar Infectus
09-12-2008, 10:23 AM
I had a wife for 9 1/2 years. Well 8, cause I didn't live with her for the last year (it took that long to get her to sign the papers). I walked out on her and gave her all the "stuff." Before we got married it was "lets make decisions together". Immediately after (and I mean on the honeymoon) it changed to "I make all the decisions regardless of what you want. I'll still ask for your opinion, but I'll get pissed off if it's different than mine." I won't go into details, but it went downhill from there.
My GF is awesome though. She's a nerd like me, and likes everything I do (and vice-a-versa). She's actually my best friend (which the old one wasn't) She doesn't care if we get married. If we ever did, she wants to do it at Dragon Con, with the part of the priest played by a Kilngon. Or something equally nerdy.
Orpheus
09-13-2008, 06:56 AM
The analogies about wearing a helmet so far have somehow avoided the obvious comparison to wearing a condom when having sex
NFL players only have to worry about colliding with other human beings at running speed
Both rather interesting analogies but in both cases, the "helmet" is there to "protect" you from something that is the "object of the game"! :biggrin:
I believe helmets are a good thing but I don't think it is government's place to mandate personal safety. That's pretty much it for me.
I have been extremely lucky in my 40 years of riding but I don't think it is all luck. I've had only ONE bike accident and that was in a parking lot at 3 mph, 38 years ago. Only one cage crash too and that was 43 years ago. Serious defensive driving is the key. To a large extent, one makes their own "luck".
So......I ride with a brain bucket about half the time. Always on the highway and always in unfamiliar territory. Puttering around town, mostly not. Is that a bad choice? Maybe but it is neither uninformed nor irrational and despite the hype some would throw around, it affects nobody but ME.
I agree 100%. I got the impression earlier that you were advocating a kind of "it's my opinion, so you can't tell me I'm wrong" kind of thing. If I lived in a small town where I didn't have to worry about half a million strangers sharing three-lane roads with me, I'd probably do the same. I still ride on the small side roads without a helmet, but it's usually just to the corner store and back (less than 1/2 mile). It's all about accepting risk, and that's what I'm willing to accept.
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