California Motorcycle Safety Foundation Course

[alanmcorcoran]

If anyone is interested, I just completed the California MSF BasicRider Course at OCMT in Anaheim. If anybody is contemplating taking this and wants a preview/review, fire away.

FYI, I do not recommend this course for experienced riders. It is most appropriate for complete noobs, and it's probably a less intimidating way to pass the CA riding test, but the first day of it is spent on material you can easily read in David Hough's book and half of the second day is looking at, or duck walking the bike. By the third day, you get into some useful exercises, but, given the class size and the typical skill distribution (12 riders, and at least two will be bike droppers) a very large percentage of your time is spent sitting around waiting.

There's a figure eight portion of the test that I found to be a bit challenging - I was surprised how well some of the complete novices did on it after only one day of riding.

-Alan.

[patrick_777]

To be honest, that is exactly what I've heard about every other MSF-B course out there (ie anywhere, not just in CA). From my understanding and from hearing others' experiences, if you've been riding for >3 months and have worked hours in the parking lot using the easily-found lot exercises, then you're going to be bored as ever in the class.

For the record, I have yet to take a class and actually, probably won't. It supposedly saves on insurance, but the most I've ever been quoted is around $2 annual savings. And if the $2 a year is that important to you, then you probably don't need to be owning a motorcycle.

[patrick_777]

I just noticed, is that a headlight visor on your GZ in your avatar pic?

[alanmcorcoran]

...Patrick, I'm not sure what a headlight visor is, but I don't think I have one. It probably just looks that way because I effed with my picture in Photoshop to make my avatar look cooler (at least that was my plan.)

Re the MSF, I didn't want to be too harsh, mainly owing to my belief that 50% of the population has not read a book since high school, and this may be a good option for them. If you are a self learner (and if you have a difficult time sitting still for five hours) you will find MSF to be a trial to get through. Part of my negativity stems from expectations set for the class. I had generally heard nothing but high praise for it so I was expecting them to reveal Secrets of Levitation and How to Hypnotize Cops. At the very least I thought I'd be able to do a wheelie afterwards (j/k.)

It wasn't bad for what it was, but it's a fifteen to seventeen hour investment - time that might garner better returns if you simply read Proficient Motorcycling, bought some cones and hit your local parking lot.

Taking the riding test in a (sort-of) non-governmental facility has some value, but again, 17 hours is a lot of time. I suppose if you fail and have to go back, you might burn that up at the DMV, but to each his own.

[Moedad]

That's the same place I took the course. You had an advantage over me - you got to ride for several weeks before taking it. I didn't have a bike yet. I lost 3 points on the Figure 8 on the test at the end because my front wheel crossed the line by a few inches coming out of the turn to the left. Did you have to use one of theirs or did they let you use your GZ?

[primal]

Half of my class were veteran riders. They all said that they were glad they took the class.

The most annoying part of the course was the classroom sessions. I could have easily finished all that material and taken the test in an hour to an hour and a half (disregard the fact that I had already learned all that just from my previous research). Instead, I had to sit through hours of highlighting and reading aloud the highlighted material from the book.

There was also the slow riders (one of which was bragging about how she was an "expert" rider, only to have all of the newbs outriding her the first day). Luckily we only had one person drop a bike, and she was the only one in the class who had apparently never even ridden a bicycle before. I always seemed to get caught right behind these two ladies, and in the exercise where you had to shift into 3rd through the turn and downshift on the straight portion I never managed to get out of 2nd. It was frustrating to say the least.

The best thing about the course was all of the little tidbits and bits of wisdom that the instructors had. The material the course covered was a piece of cake, but the minutiae the instructors would insert with their anecdotes and (in my course's instance) fits of sarcasm were the truly valuable nuggets of information.

Was it worth the $100? Absolutely. Having already taken the course, would I take it again in the future? Nope.

[alanmcorcoran]

...Eventually, they did let me use my own bike. One of the guys was kind of a dick about it.

I had checked with one of the instructors ahead of time, and he said, "Sure, no problem, as long as its a 350cc or less." But when I rode it over to the"tent" the head honcho got all crazy, "You can't park that here!" So I moved it way off to the side. Then he insisted I remove it from the course (the course is like a quarter mile of parking lot.) So I did. Walked all the way back. Then I asked the other guy, just what the eff I was supposed to do if I wanted to ride my own bike. And he told me to go get it again. Off I go on Yet Another Hike in My Heavy Black Riding Shit On a 100 Degree Day. Plus my lunch was strapped on the back.

They checked to see it was basically in working order and that I had proof of insurance, and after that, I was good to go. I was the only one on both courses riding my own bike. About half of the other guys had bikes but they were all too big.

The two week riding advantage didn't help me much on the figure eight. I effed it up pretty good every single time, *except* on the test. That one time,even though I was crapping my pants (take note Sarris) I aced it. Just lucky I guess. Practically everyone else went over the line, put their foot down, or both, but I don't think they failed anybody just because of that. I think you can get up to 20 points off and still pass.

[alanmcorcoran]

I think we might have had those same two ladies in my class. We had these two young gals and their boyfriend/brother? who helped make both range days 6 hours long instead of the advertised 5. In addition to dropping their bikes numerous times, they were frequently nowhere to be found after breaks, nearly ran over the instructors a few times, and often would just head off in random directions and had to be chased down and corralled. To be fair, they were both about 4'10" and had trouble touching the ground when mounted up and their first language was Vietnamese, so there was a lot of confusion.

One guy was late for work both days because of them and was really getting steamed. Ironically, after being one of the star students, he went down hard on the swerve test just before it was my turn in the "box" and didn't getup for about ten minutes. He eventually did the limp of shame back to his truck. He was a big badass looking guy and his ignomious exit was one of the saddest things I've seen.

One of the two ladies actually passed!

We had one vet rider - he compared the class to "watching paint dry", but he said you had to take it if you wanted to take the Experienced Rider Course. Our instructor was an active duty Marine, and although he was a decent fellow, he was strictly "by the book" In fact, he read every single exercise to us, out loud, including the parts that said things like "point to the cones" and "the instructor will now demo the exercise." I thought it was his first time, but when I asked him how long he'd been an instructor, he said a year! Our classroom guy was a lot better - but he only did the first day. So maybe it depends a lot on the personality (or lack thereof) of the instructor.

[primal]

The two slow women in my class were actually older women. One of them, to put it bluntly, was trailer trash (though kudos to her for taking the class). She was the one bragging. The other lady was a bit older still and was taking the class because she and her husband had just bought scooters (yes, bought BEFORE taking the class). Her husband was one of the best in the class. She... wasn't. She was nice, though, and managed to stay on her bike until about 3 hours into the second day on the course. I think when she finally drop the bike, after several close calls, she realized that she wasn't going to be able to pass the test and spent the rest of the course on the side line.

The younger women, two of which I go to college with, did VERY well.

Our instructor was an active duty Marine, and although he was a decent fellow, he was strictly "by the book" In fact, he read every single exercise to us, out loud, including the parts that said things like "point to the cones" and "the instructor will now demo the exercise." I thought it was his first time, but when I asked him how long he'd been an instructor, he said a year! Our classroom guy was a lot better - but he only did the first day. So maybe it depends a lot on the personality (or lack thereof) of the instructor.

Our instructors were the same. The only thing I can figure is that the MSF tells them to read their little booklet verbatim. Our instructors had been teaching the class for YEARS, and they didn't seem all that enthusiastic when reading from the booklet (making me think that they didn't really want to but had to).

[alanmcorcoran]

...Moedad and I paid $250.

[LilNinja77]

Sadly, the quality of service people get when taking the MSF-B often isn't up to par with what it is claimed to be. IMO you can get out of the class whatever you are willing to put in to it. I went in a COMPLETE noob, having never even ridden dirtbikes, let alone scooters or actual *gasp* streetbikes. I had done my fair share of online and paper research during the preceding months, mainly just because I was so excited and wanted to learn as much as possible during my time there. The classroom portion definitely was the worst part, mainly being a very slow series of highlighting and reciting, and watching what looked like 80's PSA style-videos. BUT, I also took the initiative to ask specific questions that I already had memorized in my head, and was able to get them all answered; there-by even gaining knowledge from the classroom boredom.

I really don't have anything negative to say about the range portion, other than the fact that it needs to be longer and more in-depth. These courses are really stressed with time and class-size, now more than ever; and in my specific course I think they did a very admirable job with what limited time was available. The only two people who did not come out of the course with a pretty good level of comfort on the bike, I really don't think could be taught how to ride with any amount of training. Of course, one of them had already bought a Honda Shadow a few weeks before the course.

I often hear people complaining that they didn't learn any "secrets" of riding, or that they thought they would be shown advanced techniques or something........and sorry but that's thier own silly fault. The course is directly advertised as a beginners course, designed to teach the basics of riding a motorcycle. They have an advanced course, but really it is merely a higher-difficulty adaptation of the beginners' course in which you use your own motorcycle. The speeds and increased, the braking distance and turning radius decreased, and some extra tidbits of knowledge are thrown out for you. If you really want advanced techniques and high-dollar training, go sign up for a trackday. Me, I was more than satisfied with what I got for my $150, but that's just me.
Ride safe

[Moedad]

...Moedad and I paid $250.

That's my only real complaint. Last time I was on a motorcycle was back in the 70s, and those were dirt bikes, so I didn't mind taking the class. Our instructors out on the course were an interesting contrast (we didn't get our classroom instructor for the riding part). One guy was a young laid back guy who was into...I forget what exactly he called it...some kind of manipulation of your neck bones that was supposed to completely destress you. The other instructor was older and either still was or used to be military. He was totally to the point, by the book. The young guy would make good-natured jokes about his unswerving use of the material.

The BIGGEST benefit was being able to provide a small amount of comfort for my wife that I wasn't just blindly striking out on my own to become a middle-aged rebel without a cause.

[alanmcorcoran]

...my initial comment was I didn't recommend it for experienced riders. It's a complete snooze until midway through the second day. (I did say it was a better value for complete noobs.)

My comments were aimed at folks like Patrick, who I think would regret shelling out the money and the time. I know primal said otherwise, and he may be right. I think it comes down to whether one has read Proficient Motorcycling or not.

If you've ridden 500 miles, you may pick up some good hints, but the David Hough books are much better for that IMO. In fact, MSF and Hough don't even agree on a lot of safety/technique issues. Hough recommends "covering" the brakes (and sometimes the clutch) and I got yelled a few times for doing that. Also, I piped up with a diesel fuel/on-ramp scenario from Street Strategies and the instructor flat out said, "I don't believe that happens." I just kept my info to myself from that point onward.

I mainly took the course to reduce my wife's anxiety about me riding, and, until I flip over into a guard rail, hopefully it will do that. Beyond that, it felt like extended traffic school without the air conditioning.

Yes, I managed to do the figure 8 for the test (I actually got a perfect score in the class), but having only attempted it about 4 times prior, I wouldn't be surprised if I couldn't do it again. I may work on that a bit after I get my license and can legally ride at night in the local school parking lot.

[Moedad]

My comments were aimed at folks like Patrick, who I think would regret shelling out the money and the time. I know primal said otherwise, and he may be right. I think it comes down to whether one has read Proficient Motorcycling or not.

I agree. It IS a very basic class. And expensive.

[LilNinja77]

Alan, you're completely right about it being good to cover the controls, and I don't think any experienced rider will argue about that. I'm not claiming to be an experienced rider, having only ridden for a little over 1 year, I'm just saying. Especially in traffic, covering the controls can reduce reaction time dramatically. The reason the MSF instructors (I'm told) try to keep people from doing it, is because they don't want a complete novice to be covering the brake, panic, and then lock the brakes up and potentially harm another student.

It CAN happen, in my course one student locked the brakes and went down right in front of me while staging, and I swerved hard enough to scrape pegs to avoid running over him. The same student was covering the brakes while doing the slalom, and made the mistake of looking down at a cone as he passed it. When he started to lose control, I guess he did what many people do in a car........grip the controls as hard as humanly possible.....well the brake lever was in his grip so obviously things got entertaining at this point. He didn't drop the bike but came damn close. Yet again I was following him and got to play "dodge the sitting duck". The next day he T-boned another student while staging.....I was on the opposite side of the parking lot safe and sound. BTW, he failed the course :tongue:

It's an incredibly good idea to regularly practice basic skills in an empty parking lot. Straight line braking, braking while turning, swerving, U-turns.......all are essential to practice. Don't worry too much about making a perfect figure-8, they just do the 8 to make you do a U turn in both directions quickly. Practicing the U turns one at a time is fine, I can't think of any realistic situation on the road that would require you to pull a figure 8, unless you're just trying to make the other drivers dizzy as you dance around them :2tup: Good luck with your practice!
Ride safe

[alanmcorcoran]

...numerous times the bike-droppin' Vietnamese chicks would get dangerously close to the ass end of my GX while thinking through the braking controls. Made me a bit clenchy. Also, after seeing some of the other more experienced riders go down, I was thinking, "you know, it would be a lot smarter if I dropped one of their dinged up thumpers instead of my pristine, fresh-from-the-dealer, purring kitten."

Fortunately there were no incidents of either kind.