Oil Leak

[arsuzukied]

Noticing a small oil leak on my '06 GZ. After riding for about 20 minutes, a small drop of oil runs out along the 3-4 cooling fin on the left side (the bike leans that way on the kickstand). The bike has 6900 miles on it and has had regular maintenance. I've tightened the spark plug. Any ideas about head gaskets failing that early, or perhaps the gasket for the cam adjustment? i know it is not normal. Any info would be appreciated.

[Sarris]

You might check the head bolt torque. I'm fairly sure that will also tighten down the cylinder studs as well. Check the service manual (on site) for the specfied torque values.

:)

[El Diablo]

Double check that someone didn't swap your bike out for a old Harley. If so, might as well go to the auto parts store and by a little oil pan to sit underneath the bike when you park it.

[Water Warrior 2]

Had a valve adjust lately ? Was everything buttoned up properly ? Just throwing out a guess to muddy the waters.

[arsuzukied]

Thanks, all. I'll check the head bolt torque - good place to start. I'm going to buy a new plug - I've heard that sometimes they leak around the ceramic. Bought the bike used from a high school kid - I'm not sure the valves have been adjusted, but I can check it. I don't think it is an old Harley - runs too well :-)

Guess I need to post a photo of me and my new toy. I'm getting a kick out of getting back on one after a 20 year hiatus. ~70 mpg doesn't hurt, either - my wife definately likes that part.

[Quimrider]

I have a 2000 with 9,000 miles.

I believe mine is leaking from the same place. The "cover" (upper part of the cylinder head what the valve adjustment caps screw into) and the lower half of the cylinder head (where the valves are and what the spark plug screws into). A liquid gasket is used to seal these two pieces so don't waste your time looking for a new gasket. Once you've disassembled and removed the gasket material. You should check to make sure it has not warped with a feeler gauge.

Also the gasket for the crank case cover (oil filter side) decided to let go on my way to work this morning. thankfully I didn't crash, catch fire, or run completely out of oil. I didn't notice anything until I got to work and saw smoke from the oil on the exhaust pipe.

I'll be fixing these leaks this weekend. Either these seals are just falling apart from being old or I ride too hard :)

[Canuck]

Another hand up for the same problem...

Seems to be oil coming from the bolt closest to the Spark..

It seemed to happen shortly after the Valve Adjustment i had done close by the dealership.
My bike also has 33000 kms on it from 2003 so i can imagine that time, heat and other factors have cause the gasket to degrade or shift? Either way i think the next valve adjustment I'll mention it and take it from there...

Best O' Luck!

:ride:

[Water Warrior 2]

Canuck, fill out your profile. That way we will know where you are in the GWN. You could be next door or 3000 kms away.

[Easy Rider]

Seems to be oil coming from the bolt closest to the Spark..


On a related subject......the brown stains on the engine fins that look like an oil leak but aren't....can be removed by CAREFULLY applying some oven cleaner with a Q-tip to a warm (not hot) engine. Should be wiped with a wet rag after.

Be very careful with the oven cleaner. It is NASTY stuff; it removes paint and fogs plastic and burns your skin if left on it very long. :skull:

[Quimrider]

On a related subject......the brown stains on the engine fins that look like an oil leak but aren't....can be removed by CAREFULLY applying some oven cleaner with a Q-tip to a warm (not hot) engine. Should be wiped with a wet rag after.

Be very careful with the oven cleaner. It is NASTY stuff; it removes paint and fogs plastic and burns your skin if left on it very long. :skull:
WOAH EASY RIDER!!!

Sodium Hydroxide aka NaOH (the active ingredient in most oven cleaners) is not something you want to put on the aluminum engine fins. The engine fins are aluminum, right? It may clean it, but that's because it's dissolving the underlying metal. Sodium hydroxide is highly reactive to aluminum. For an example see this video: [youtube:2odv6gbv]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gihAT6eXaoc[/youtube:2odv6gbv]
You can also search youtube for "sodium hydroxide aluminum" for many other examples.

Edit: 9-8-08
Don't panic. A little bit of common sense is required; thus my cautions about rinsing afterwards
BUT.....
I just looked at the can and it is only 4% NaOH; hardly a concentration that will "eat away" even soft aluminum......if you put it on, rub a bit and then rinse it OFF. If you are really paranoid, rinse with white vinegar.

I completely agree with you, but I put the warning up because common sense isn't all that common :) I could imagine someone unknowingly getting a higher concentration cleaner and leave it on over nite and coming back to a heavily corroded engine. I have used some oven cleaner in the past where I accidentally got some on aluminum and it was surprisingly heavily pitted in the time it too me to wipe it off.

[Easy Rider]

Sodium Hydroxide aka NaOH (the active ingredient in most oven cleaners) is not something you want to put on the aluminum engine fins. The engine fins are aluminum, right?

Don't panic. A little bit of common sense is required; thus my cautions about rinsing afterwards
BUT.....
I just looked at the can and it is only 4% NaOH; hardly a concentration that will "eat away" even soft aluminum......if you put it on, rub a bit and then rinse it OFF. If you are really paranoid, rinse with white vinegar.

I did mine a week ago and just looked again; no indication of any ill effects. The fins are certainly some kind of alloy and have a matte finish to start with. Even if it did dull it a bit, it would still be better than the brown crap that I took off. :yes:

[Rick]

I've got what appears to be the same leak (bolt next to spark plug, leaking onto the 4th fin). I took the chrome cover off and found the spark plug to be loose, but tightening that didn't solve the problem. If you've been able to resolve this please let me know what you did, or if you took it to a shop, what they diagnosed and charged for the repair.

Thanks!

[Easy Rider]

If you've been able to resolve this please let me know what you did, or if you took it to a shop, what they diagnosed and charged for the repair.
Thanks!

This is why I dropped into the thread with what might sound like a different problem.

Several of us have found what first appeared to be an oil leak in that exact same area, only to find out upon careful investigation (in my case by TWO shops) that it is NOT an oil leak at all but some left over assembly or shipping "grease" that turns brown and VERY stiff (hard) after it cooks on the hot engine for a while.

You may have that condition instead of a "real" oil leak.

[Rick]

When I first noticed the problem (yesterday), I went ahead and cleaned everything up as best I could, so I would be able to notice the first trace should it actually be a leak. Today, after a short ride, I saw it re-appear on that 4th fin, so I'm reasonably sure there is some sort of leak. It's not much but it's definitely there.

[Quimrider]

Rick,
I've just fixed the leaking cylinder head cover that leaks right around the spark plug. I still have to adjust the valves tomorrow before I fire the engine back up to see if I have truly fixed the problem. I was glad to find out that I could get the cover off with the engine still in the bike. after I got it apart, it looked like the gasket material had gone away where it was leaking. I checked and it had not warped. I will post details of what I used to remove the old and what I used for the new gasket tomorrow when I'm not completely exhausted. I will say that it wasn't as difficult as I feared it would be.
Oh yeah my clutch cover gasket failed on me and I'll have to fix that before I can think about putting oil in. :)

[Quimrider]

I will probably put together a quick step by step how-to if I have time. It would have helped if I had taken some pictures before I started putting stuff back together. Here's an abbreviated rough draft:

1. Remove gas tank

2. Remove decorative chrome and their mounting brackets

3. Unbolt cylinder head from frame and remove frame to cylinder head brackets (picts will help here). The two bolts on the frame had blue thread lock making them difficult to remove.

4. Follow service manual to put the engine at TDC (so both intake and exhaust valves are fully closed.)

5. Unscrew all bolts on cylinder head cover except the two rocker arm shaft bolts (3rd pic down on page 3-24 service manual). One of the bolts has a gasket washer make note of where this goes. Thankfully for me the service manual shows where it goes on page 3-64. Service manual says to replace with new but I didn't have a new one readily available an didn't want to have to wait for a new one so I just put some liquid gasket on it during reassembly. I probably shouldn't have to mention this but don't loosen the two acorn nuts by the spark plug. You're just taking the cover off not the whole cylinder head.

NOTE: there is a bolt under each valve cover cap.

6. Tap with a rubber mallet or pull gently on the valve cover to break the gasket seal. Mine took some tapping and pulling. but came off easily with a little patience.

7. Use some gasket remover on both surfaces. (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_removers/auto_Permatex_Low_VOC_Gasket_Remover.htm) Be careful not to get any in the engine. I'm not sure of the consequences but I'd image it wouldn't be a good idea to have this stuff in your engine oil. Let it soak for 15-30 minutes. The old gasket material should easily dissolve. If not put more gasket remover on and let it soak longer.

8. Wipe surfaces clean with some rags and make sure you get all the old gasket material off.

9. Remove gasket remover and oils from mating surfaces with brake cleaner or similar solvent. I sprayed some on a rag and was very careful on the cylinder head, again being careful not to get anything in the engine.

Edit 10-8-08: The original gasket material didn't hold up!

10. Apply liquid gasket maker to one of the mating surfaces. (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Copper_Maximum_Temperature_RTV _Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm) The outer area directly on the cylinder head and then for the surfaces around the inner bolt holes, apply to the cover. I suppose it really doesn't matter which surface you put it on. I just started with the cylinder head and then switched to the cover because the cam shaft was in the way. I used a rubber glove and used my finger to smear a thin layer. Thin being the operative word here you really need very very little, just enuff to cover the metal.

EDIT 10-8-08 OLD STEP TEN, SKIP THIS STEP. FOR REFERENCE ONLY.
10. Apply liquid gasket to both mating surfaces. (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Aviation_Form-A-Gasket_No_3_Sealant_a.htm) Service manual says to use Suzuki Bond 1215. I couldn't find any specifications on this and wasn't going to pay ~$20 for some from Suzuki. The aviation gasket maker I used can go up to 400 deg. F Hopefully this is high enough temp. If anyone knows what the Suzuki temp. spec is please share. I could have used a 700 deg. F RTV silicone but the gasket remover doesn't dissolve RTV silicone. I don't want to imagine the pain in the ass it would be to remove the silicone if I had to take the cover off again.


11. Put the long bolt in the center thru the hole in the cover before you put the cover back on. Otherwise you'll be cursing like a sailor when you realize the frame doesn't allow enough clearance and you have to start over.

12. Only finger tight the bolts so you don't squeeze out all the gasket material. Wait 24hrs for gasket to cure before going to step 13.

13. snug all bolts to spec which is 7 ft-lbs. As stated above instead of using a new gasket washer, I just applied some liquid gasket to the existing washer. This is probably not necessary I see no reason why a new gasket washer would be required.

14. adjust your valves (see service manual).

15. put valve cover caps back on and enjoy your leak free engine.

16. Any questions?

Other thoughts:

EDIT 10-8-08 I ENDED UP USING THE RTV ABOVE. I LEFT THIS AS A REFERENCE INCASE SOMEONE WANTED TO TRY THIS GASKET MAKER.
Prior to this I've never used any of the gasket products shown above. I just used what I could find locally and readily available. After looking at Permatex's web page I may try this if the aviation gasket doesn't hold up. (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_1372_High_Temperature_Form-A-Gasket_Sealant.htm) It looks similar to the aviation gasket stuff but goes up to 600 deg. F.

If you need to replace a clutch cover gasket, (surprisingly it has been more difficult that the cylinder head cover gasket!) soaking the gasket material that sticks to the clutch cover over nite with the gasket remover will make it SIGNIFICANTLY easier to remove as it is nearly impossible to remove otherwise without damaging the mating surface.

[Rick]

Wow. Thanks for the detailed instructions! Now I just need to determine whether or not that's something I want to take on myself, but this helps a lot. :2tup:

[Quimrider]

I was apprehensive about doing it myself as well. Mine was more of a weeping slow leak so I let it slide for a few months before I did anything about it. I don't know if the valve adjustment is really necessary, but I figure since the rocker arms are on the cover that it should be done. I'm due for my 3000 mile adjustment anyway. If you don't have the tools to do the valve adjustment yourself, I don't think it would be that far out of adjustment and you should be able to ride to your nearest service shop and have them do the adjustment when you're done with the gasket. One thing that I didn't mention is that you should use the liquid gasket sparingly. You only need a thin layer. There is no rush when doing this because the liquid thickens when you put it on and dries slow. the bottle doesn't say how long it takes to dry so I'm giving it over nite to dry. I just noticed that yours is a 2007. It shouldn't be leaking on something so new. Is it still under warranty?

[Rick]

Yes, I'm a little irked that I'm having this problem on so new a bike. It's got 4300 miles on it, so it has been ridden some. It's no longer under warranty so I'm on my own. But it is such a slow leak that I'll probably just watch it for awhile to see if it gets any worse before I take any kind of action. There is no loss of compression or other ill effects that I have noticed, I just need to wipe off a drop of oil every couple of trips.

[Quimrider]

have you tried snugging the bolts on the cover to see if it stops the leak. Just don't crank on them too much the spec is only 7 ft-lbs.

[Rick]

haven't tried that yet. Just been pokin' around on the outside with the gas tank on, trying to figure out exactly where the leak is coming from. I guess that'll be the next step.

[arsuzukied]

To report back:
Mine seems to have cured itself. I normally only ride the bike to work and back (round trip of about 15 miles/day on city streets), but this last Sunday I took it out for a 50 mile plus ride with extended periods between 55 and 65 mph. I waited to see if the leak would show up after that ride, but nothing ever did. I even took a phillips screwdriver and looped a washcloth over the end and poked it up in between the cylinder fins, but no leak! I'll continue to watch it and report if it returns.

I did notice that the bike seems to run better after having the soot blown out of it . . .

[Quimrider]

The jury is still out on the aviation gasket stuff. It never completely dried. The excess that oozed out has only dried to the consistency of tar and appears to have somewhat liquefied under heat and run down the cylinder head. So far it hasn't leaked oil, but I'm thinking maybe I should have used the high temp RTV silicone even though it would be a pain in the butt to clean up if I ever had to take it off again. Are there any motorcycle mechanics that can chime in on this?

UPDATE 09-15-08:
The aviation form-a-gasket liquid gasket maker appears to be holding. I'll update if it starts to leak.

[mrlmd1]

To report back:
Mine seems to have cured itself. I normally only ride the bike to work and back (round trip of about 15 miles/day on city streets), but this last Sunday I took it out for a 50 mile plus ride with extended periods between 55 and 65 mph. I waited to see if the leak would show up after that ride, but nothing ever did. I even took a phillips screwdriver and looped a washcloth over the end and poked it up in between the cylinder fins, but no leak! I'll continue to watch it and report if it returns.

I did notice that the bike seems to run better after having the soot blown out of it . . .

Maybe you ran out of oil (just kidding). Have you checked the level since the leak stopped?

Running the bike open for a while could make it run better after burning off some carbon but that shouldn't have anything to do with stopping an oil leak. It would seem it would make it worse or more apparent, unless somehow something swelled up or a bolt got tighter somehow from the heat. Anyone else have an idea how that could happen?

[Sarris]

I had a little of that (Oil leak or stain) on the right rear of the cylinder just below the head. I had the head re-torqued at 12k just to be sure it wasn't a gasket leak. I got the crud off with bumper sticker remover. I used it on the motor when cold, let it sit 10 minutes, and took it right off with a brush. Cleaned that up w/ soap and water. Voila, no crud no stain.

My pal who teaches a Florida MSF course says almost all their GZ's get it. He told me it's a shipping preservative (some type of cosmoline) that the dealer didn't get all the way off at delivery clean-up

This is what I wrote in the Ride Report thread where Easy Rider stated he stopped to have his bike checked on his trip because he thought he had an oil leak.

FYI

:2tup:

[primal]

Boy I'm glad I read this thread. I just noticed what appeared to be an oil leak on the cooling fins. With all the other problems I've developed with my bike re: my inner tube and spokes I was really dreading another problem.

[Quimrider]

The aviation gasket stuff didn't work :( It may have just been that I tightened it down too much too soon as it all seemed to ooze out. I'm trying this ultra copper stuff. (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Copper_Maximum_Temperature_RTV _Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm) I'll edit my previous post incase someone doesn't read this far.

[Quimrider]

Well I'm leaking again :??: I wonder if the 7 ft-lb torque spec is right in the service manual for the cover bolts? :??: I'll re-tighten the bolts and see if that helps. Hopefully it's not a warped cylinder head.

[caroledee1]

I had an oil leak all summer which got progressively worse. I had to quit riding it. Just got it back from the shop yesterday. The clutch case cover gasket was leaking at the top. Not as bad as I thought. I was afraid it was the head gasket. S'all good now!

[Water Warrior 2]

Always glad to hear about a happy ending to a story. Ride on.

[Quimrider]

I had an oil leak all summer which got progressively worse. I had to quit riding it. Just got it back from the shop yesterday. The clutch case cover gasket was leaking at the top. Not as bad as I thought. I was afraid it was the head gasket. S'all good now!

How much did that set you back? I had a similar problem except mine was not leaking until one day riding to work I lost nearly a quart of oil before I noticed anything wrong. I fixed it myself. It was a major pain removing the old gasket. If it happens again I'd probably be willing to pay someone else to fix it.

[caroledee1]

I had an oil leak all summer which got progressively worse. I had to quit riding it. Just got it back from the shop yesterday. The clutch case cover gasket was leaking at the top. Not as bad as I thought. I was afraid it was the head gasket. S'all good now!

How much did that set you back? I had a similar problem except mine was not leaking until one day riding to work I lost nearly a quart of oil before I noticed anything wrong. I fixed it myself. It was a major pain removing the old gasket. If it happens again I'd probably be willing to pay someone else to fix it.

An independent shop owner I know did the gasket replacement,lube, and oil w/filter change for $115.36. I don't have a place indoors to work on it so the heat has to be up in "the big blue shed" for me to work on it. Plus all the proper tools. I have done quite a bit myself. Oil changes, preventative maintenance, brake pads, 16-tooth sprocket, carb washer modification, sissy bar installation,windshield installation. I don't feel bad having someone else do some of the work if I can afford it!

[El Diablo]

I'm the smart a _ _ that said where you sure you bike isn't a Harley. Well shame on me because I got an oil leak. Just a drop or two when it sat up overnight but mine is a 2008 and only has a little over 2,000 miles on it. Weather has been nasty so I wasn't able to examine very closely. I dropped it off at the dealer today to let them check it out as the bike is way to young to be having a problem.

[Quimrider]

Thought I'd post an update to let you guys know how things turned out. You should really use the Suzuki gasket goo. The orange RTV worked worse than the first stuff I tried. In addition to the valve cover leaking oil, I had a leaking head gasket (combustion/compression was leaking out up front just below and in between the exhaust pipes). So I had my local shop fix both leaks for me. Turns out I must have slightly overheated the cylinder head as it had slightly warped contributing to the head gasket leak. $330 later they had machined the head flat and replaced all the gaskets from the cylinder up. She purrs nicely again.

We'll see if the suzuki gasket goo holds.