View Full Version : add another bike to GZ
I have been riding and love the way the GZ rides. It is awesome for local roads and great to maneuver do to size and weight. price point is great and it's the kind of bike i would love to keep forever.
Being said, i was looking into another bike with similar features (ride stance, comfort) but with a bit more power. The 250 or (249) is great for local roads but I am a bit nervous to ride on any highway near me as cars travel at 70+. Not that I am looking to break the speedlimt, I am wanting a bike that i can take on a longer trip (from state to state on the interestate). there is no question the GZ is limited on it's top speed - then adding wind, hills, saddle bags, etc. it's hard to maintain highway speeds in excessive of 60 to 65. I am 5'-10" and 175. Bike is tuned perfectly but I am concerned about stressing the motor at higher RPM's for a duration.
Therefore, I was wondering what other people have moved to from the GZ. I sat on other bikes - suzuki's, honda's, yamaha, triump, HD's. For me cost is an issue and I was curious to hear what other people had to say about jumping up.
Do not get me wrong, i do not want to get rid of this bike - i changed the front brakes and fluid with no issues and would like to continue to work on it when needed and go for the riding i have been doing, it's the longer rides i am concerned with.
any suggestions?
Badbob
11-23-2006, 04:29 PM
I've been researching other bikes since before I got my GZ250. If you can answer a few questions I might be able to at least point you in the right direction.
Do you want to stay with a 250cc bike?
Do you want to stay with the cruiser style bike?
Do you ride long distances?
Do you carry cargo as in camping equipment?
Are after market third party accessories important to you?
Is performance and handling important?
My answers in blue.
Do you want to stay with a 250cc bike?
no, i was thinking larger for the performance, long ride ability with a passenger, weight.
Do you want to stay with the cruiser style bike?
yes
Do you ride long distances?
long? up to 125 miles + a day
Do you carry cargo as in camping equipment?
cargo is important. not so much getting to the location but more so on the ride home. storage is always nice, i found it difficult to run to a store and take something home without it being held on me personally or under the seat.
Are after market third party accessories important to you?
windshield, saddle bags moreso then luggage to keep weight lower, i am in the NE so heated handle grips and seat is always a plus.
Is performance and handling important?
yes
Well, i no longer own a GZ (kinda started this when i did, then moved up lol).
I spent about 3 weeks trying to decide on what to get. I was originally going to stay with suzuki until i sat on an Intruder (yuck). They were very 'tight' fitting, although they dont look it looking at one. I browsed pictures of many many bikes on ebay, google etc. I compared prices, price ranges, reviews... you name it i went through it. I then headed on over to the dealer and sat on various makes and models. I FINALLY decided on a Honda Shadow, forget if it was an ace or comparable, it felt nice and fit me very well. What i ended up getting was a Honda Shadow Spirit 750. (basically the same bike, smaller fenders). It wasnt what i decided on exactly, but i got a really good deal on ebay. Paid blue book for it but it also had almost 2 grand in work done to it (cobra pipes, cobra jet kit, mustang seat, hypercharger, new paint). I just couldnt pass that up. The spirit still fits me as good as what i sat on at the dealer and is plenty of power for doing 100 mile runs just riding around on back roads and on the highway. The stock seat sucks (i got a stock one just to 'have' one). I took it off after 15 minutes of riding and put the mustang touring seat back on. All in all, the 750cc is more than enough power for what you want to do.
What you NEED to do is go to the dealer and talk to them. Tell them you want to buy a 'new' bike (just lie to them lol, they bend over backwards to help you out). Sit on all the bikes that interest you. Sit as long as you can on each one. Stand it up to feel the weight and balance. Sit on it and put your feet up on the pegs. Get a good feel for each bike. You should be able to narrow it down to 2 or 3 ... maybe even 1. I am sure you are looking to buy used, trust me, thats the best thing to do until say your NEXT bike. So now that you have narrowed it down..... go find yourself a really good deal on a used one. Theres plenty on ebay with saddlebags, windshields already installed. You can find some good deals on there.. as well as some overpriced ones too lol. So do your homework on bluebook values!
Most dealers will tell you, as soon as most of their customers get their bikes home, they buy a mustang seat for it for long rides. They are not lying to you! If you plan on getting one, plan on getting an aftermarket seat! Unless you buy a VStar or something comparible with those comfy pillow seats :) This is where 'used' can save you some money. Alot of used bikes come with aftermarket seats ;)
As for windshield, you will be looking at $160 and up for these type of cruisers. Saddlebags you will want to spend a little more and get something name brand and heavy weight leather, trust me. Heated grips, you can find on ebay for $50 shipped.
Performance and handling. Most all these bikes handle about the same (minus the minibike handling of the GZ). My spirit handles the road great. Its sure no sportbike but i can rip throught twisties very well. They take bumps MUCH better than the GZ does.
I will say though, whatever you do decide... it will feel like a monster when you first straddle it. The ride home you will shit a brick at the power increase, ride comfort, handling, smoothness of shifting etc ... You will also have a smile on your face a mile wide and think to yourself the entire ride home "why the hell didnt i do this sooner". (this is all from personal experience too lol).
If you are very confident on the GZ, and i mean to the point that you can whip that thing around like a minibike when you were 14.... You will have NO problem going to a 750cc and could possible even up it to an 1100 if you REALLY wanted to. The weight difference is like 20 lbs or so depending what model and really, the only diff is torque. 1100 will get you to 60 faster than a 750 would. After a few weeks on my spirit 750 i immedialty began to think i could have very easily went to an 1100 (which will be my next bike if and when i finally sell the spirit 750).
Good luck on this, i found looking for an upgrade from the GZ a real pain in the ass because of SO many choices. But if you follow what i have said (and any other forum you ask this question would tell you to do the same thing) you should have no problem finding yourself a good motorcycle that you are comfortable on.
Any other questions, fire away!
Badbob
11-24-2006, 12:48 PM
My answers in blue.
Do you want to stay with a 250cc bike?
no, i was thinking larger for the performance, long ride ability with a passenger, weight.
Do you want to stay with the cruiser style bike?
yes
Do you ride long distances?
long? up to 125 miles + a day
Do you carry cargo as in camping equipment?
cargo is important. not so much getting to the location but more so on the ride home. storage is always nice, i found it difficult to run to a store and take something home without it being held on me personally or under the seat.
Are after market third party accessories important to you?
windshield, saddle bags more so then luggage to keep weight lower, i am in the NE so heated handle grips and seat is always a plus.
Is performance and handling important?
yes
Just so you know where I'm coming from. I like cruisers. I think they look great. Some of them are down right beautiful to look at. When I got back into riding the Honda Shadow was the bike I thought I wanted. When you get right down to it I'm not against any style motorcycle and would probably own one of each if I had the money and a place to keep them. I have some where close to 20,000 miles of riding experience mostly on smaller bikes. About 14000 miles this year. If I had to classify my experience I would put myself just barely in the novice class. My point here is that I'm not an expert.
What kind of bikes do I own? Two GZ250s and a Yamaha XS11 Special. The Yamaha is an 1100cc shaft drive bike.
I have been researching motorcycles for almost a year now trying to figure out what exactly it is I want. When I say research I don't mean 30 minutes a per week but more like an hour or two a day either reading books or internet forums and FAQs. Note that I do not consider myself an expert so take this for what it is. The opinion of someone who is trying to make a the same sort of decision as you but maybe a little further down the path. In case your wondering, I'm not planning to get rid the GZ250 any time soon. The Yamaha is subject to get replaced at any time.
This is my take so far:
Cruisers are pretty but they are not the best riding bikes. In general seating position is very bad for long distance riding. At about 30 to 50 miles you will find many cruiser riders looking for a place to take a break. If your seat isn't right for you its going to hurt. There are exception to this of course. Some people have iron butts. If you are going to ride a cruiser factor in a custom seat as part of the cost of the bike. If you find the stock seat works for you then spent the money on gear or chrome.
Due to their low ground clearance Cruisers do not corner well due to their limited lean angle. Peg dragging is a pretty regular occurrence on my GZ250. On a good surface with good tires you can lean a bike to the point that the shiny parts start dragging the ground and throwing up sparks. Lots of cruisers slide out in tight curves because they get in to the turn a little to fast and can't lean the bike over far enough to make the turn. The point is that if you want to do things like ride the Dragons Tail a cruiser might not be what you want.
Cruisers excel at looking good and going fast in a straight line.
The cruiser you choose will depend more on personal taste than any thing else and although their are some that I like I would be afraid to recommend one. However, if you have a Hyosung dealer nearby I do recommend that you look at them. Lots of bang for your buck.
If you want to ride 1000 miles on the highway, ride up a mountain on a dirt road or rocky trail, camp for a day or two, and ride back. You want a dual sport. In my opinion the KLR650 is king in this area. If you think you might be interested in this type of riding check out the following links. The Adventure Rider link is worth looking at just for the pictures and ride reports that are posted there. The second link goes to my collection of KLR605 links.
http://www.advrider.com/
http://tinyurl.com/yj7823
For riding long distances standard, sport touring, and dual sport bikes are much better than cruisers. This is mainly due to their seating positions. However, they also have better handling and performance than cruisers. Some of the sport touring bikes come equipped from the factory with hard bags and trunks.
My motorcycle touring links: http://tinyurl.com/ykh8us
Dual sport bike excel at carrying cargo. I've seen many photos of KLR650s loaded to the gills with all sorts of stuff. People ride these on trips of thousands of miles across just about any anything you can imagine. The sport touring bikes do pretty well in this department as well. Lots of cruiser gear is just for show. I've seen cruiser saddle bags that were only rated for 4lbs this would not not carry my lightest jacket. Before you purchase any bike make sure you can get the gear you want for it at a price that you are willing to pay. In some cases the gear could wind up costing more than the bike.
Be sure the bike you choose will handle all the powered accessories you want to add. Some have very little over head in the electrical power department and few of them are upgradeable to get more power. For example, adding a light bar to a GZ250 can easily draw so much current that your battery will not charge. If you are so inclined you can modify accessories or even fabricate things to work on your bike like brackets and such. If you are not capable of doing this or do not want to it is important that you know what is available before you drop a few thousand dollars on your bike. Search Google for forums on the model of bike your considering. In many cases you will find this very help full.
I think support groups are a must. I would not buy a bike that did not have one. More members is better.
I don't think dealers are much help since their goals are much different than yours. They want as much profit as they can get while you want the ideal bike for you at price you are willing to pay. A good internet forum with lots of members can save you lots of pain and money. Of course you must always keep in mind that opinions are like Alpha Hotels. Everybody has one. ;)
If performance and handling are at the top of your list then cruisers are not. In the twistys a 250c Ninja will eat cruisers for lunch. In the same cc range there would not be a contest anywhere. Like everything else in life its a trade off. You trade performance and handling for looking cool. Everything is a compromise.
I know it sounds like I'm trying to talk you out of buying a cruiser. I assure you this is not the case. What I'm saying here is that you should do your research and make an informed choice. If all you look at is cruisers then thats all your going to see and you may miss something important to you. If the only tool you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
I have come to the conclusion that I need (want) three types bikes:
A commuter to ride to work. It must be inexpensive, easy to maintain, reliable, maneuverable in traffic, get great gas mileage, and be able to carry considerable cargo. I don't want to need a gallon of milk and have to ride home, get the truck and go back to the store. A GZ250 and most any 250cc bike would do this for me. I don't require speeds in excess of 45 mph where I live. If I did need highway speeds could get a Nija 250 and it would work fine. I ride to work most every day.
A bike that will carry lots of cargo and is at home in the dirt. Thats why I am very interested in a dual sport KLR650. I ride my GZ250 in the dirt now. I like to explore and don't like to back track when the pavement ends. Riding a GZ250 down a rutted dirt road can be a hair raising experience. A KLR650 will go down any road and make a great commuter.
A road bike. Something that I would I could hang some luggage on and haul myself and the wife on a 500 mile trip.
So here is my short list:
Kawasaki KLR650 - It does everything except make a good bike for riding two up on a long road trip. The wife wants and has her own bike so if she can ride a KLR then we only need two of these and we are all set. It also has excellent support via several internet forums and how to sites. KLR650 riders are quite creative. It comes from the factory with a real luggage rack.
Honda CB750 Nighthawk - This would be hard to beat for a road bike. Low maintenance, high reliability, excellent performance, and some major support groups. There is a yahoo group that has more than 5000 members. Lots of people are riding Nighthawks. On the down side the rage is a bit on the short side as some places I want to ride it can be 200 miles to the next gas stop. I'm also not to sure about the oil cooling system although this would not be a deal breaker for me. They don't make these any more but you might still be able to find a new one.
Kawasaki Ninja 250cc - These have a lot going for them including some great forums in the internet. It would make a great commuter bike or sport tourer. This little bike will zip through traffic and have no trouble keeping up with interstate traffic. Top speed is around 100 mph. Good gas mileage although some people do better with the 500cc Ninja. It might be difficult to buy a used one that has not been abused. New Ninja 250s are cheap at around $3000. Maintenance is fairly easy and since these have been around for years there should not be any problem getting parts or service. Much like the KLR riders some of the Ninja riders are very creative and willing to share their experiences.
Kawasaki Concourse - Great road bike and sport touring bike. It can be bought pretty much ready to hit the road. I haven't finished my research on this one yet but so far I like everything I see. If you took a Ninja and reconfigured for sport touring it might look a lot like this.
I also like the Suzuki VStrom but I think they are to new and I'm not sure I like the idea of having a bike that I can't bump start.
Stay away from air cooled engines with more than one cylinder. My Yamaha XS11 is air cooled and if you get stuck in traffic over heating is a real possibility. This bike will boil the gas in the tank if you don't keep it cool. The KLR650 is a single cylinder and its water cooled. On my short list the Honda Nighthawk is the only bike that is not water cooled. Water cooled engines tend to run better and last longer.
Watch the weight. Imagine trying to push a 800 lb motorcycle backward and up hill. Imaging riding a heavy bike in to a dead end on a narrow dirt road to a dead end and you have to turn this sucker around jockeying it back and forth on loose dirt. You say your not going to get ride in the dirt. You might need to do something similar in a parking lot. A lighter bike can be balance on its kick stand and spun around. Try doing this with a very heavy bike.
Make sure the carrying capacity of the bike is adequate to your needs. How much weight can you actually carry on the bike keeping in mind that every accessory you want to add subtracts from this. On some bikes two people with all there gear will exceed the limit.
You might want to have tubeless tires and alloy wheels. Alloy wheels are low maintenance and tubeless tires are easier to make roadside repairs. Some think tubeless tires are safer.
I keep seeing people tell you to sit on the bike at a dealer. My take is that it really has limited usefulness. If the bike doesn't have a center stand you can't sit on it in the riding position. If it has a center stand the bike will be tilted forward so your still not really in the riding position although much closer to it than you would be with you feet on the floor. The only way you really know if its comfortable to ride is when your two hundred miles down the road. I'm not saying don't do it. See it for what it is not what you wish it was.
With very few exceptions I do not think that buying a new bike is a good way to go. That said, you really need to know something about how buy used bikes before you get one thats out of warranty.
If you get another bike and don't like it keep in mind that most people will go through several be fore they settle into something they really like. I think this is partially why you see so many bikes with low millage for sale.
OK, I've about run out of steam. Do your research. Ride what you like and ride safe.
this was educational for both the thought process and weblinks but what I like most (for comparision purposes) is a persons opinion. About their research. It is extermely helpful while looking at bikes to use someones own knowledge to help. I posted about changing front pads. I read the MOM but after asking on this forum, there was more I learned then just what the MOM said.
All bikes you mentioned were not american, any reason? I sat and road a standard bike, for some reason, I was not thrilled since I was somewhat pushed forward and used more arms (tir-cepts) which is a reason I like the cruiser much more. For me to pull over ever 35 to 50 miles is not the worst thing at this point, stretching is key to me. I find myself standing after 35 to 40 minutes or so of riding at traffic lights.
I would like to see how you and your GZ spark at turns. I know the foot pegs can be an issue. For me, mostly on left turns going from a flat surface up hill. Maybe you have engine guards...
I saw Victory and Harleys around and like the look, being that Harley starts at 883 - it could be a good starting point since it is basically around the 750 size.
Anyway, I very much so appreciate you post..
Badbob
11-24-2006, 04:30 PM
this was educational for both the thought process and weblinks but what I like most (for comparision purposes) is a persons opinion. About their research. It is extermely helpful while looking at bikes to use someones own knowledge to help. I posted about changing front pads. I read the MOM but after asking on this forum, there was more I learned then just what the MOM said.
All bikes you mentioned were not american, any reason? I sat and road a standard bike, for some reason, I was not thrilled since I was somewhat pushed forward and used more arms (tir-cepts) which is a reason I like the cruiser much more. For me to pull over ever 35 to 50 miles is not the worst thing at this point, stretching is key to me. I find myself standing after 35 to 40 minutes or so of riding at traffic lights.
I would like to see how you and your GZ spark at turns. I know the foot pegs can be an issue. For me, mostly on left turns going from a flat surface up hill. Maybe you have engine guards...
I saw Victory and Harleys around and like the look, being that Harley starts at 883 - it could be a good starting point since it is basically around the 750 size.
Anyway, I very much so appreciate you post..
If you look close you might find that even the "American" bikes are non-American. However, this had nothing to do with the selection process. I had a list of needs and wants and these just worked out to fit these needs. Price is an issue and since I may have to purchase two of some of them it is double important. If you look at their history all of these bikes have a traceable history that goes back 20 years or more. It's all tried and true technology that has been refined and tweaked and improved over the years. For example, Buells are very interesting but did not make the cut because they are expensive and have not been around long enough, There are Suzuki's I liked but they don't make them any more and the few newer ones I liked don't have any history.
Here is a good document about seating positions: http://www.sargentcycle.com/csroadcom.htm
Seating position is not really intuitive because what feels comfortable just sitting on a bike isn't really good for the long haul. Do an experiment the next time you ride. Lean forward slightly and see if you can ride longer before it becomes uncomfortable. I have some really long trips I want to take and having to stop every 35-50 miles would slow me down so much that some of them would not be doable.
Another advantage that the non cruiser bikes have that I didn't think to mention before is that your feet are under you so standing on the pegs without having to pull you self up with your arms allowing you to keep a light touch on the handle bars and uses proper counter steering techniques. You can also steer with your feet.
As far as leaning forward goes I really don't think this will be as much of a problem as you think. Unless you have a large windshield the wind will take some of the pressure off and its all adjustable. Different handlebars, risers and adjusting handlebar positions. If you go where there are lots of Ninjas to look at take note of all the different handlebars they have. They don't all have the same ones from the factory. Handlebars have a large affect on your seating position.
You don't want to see any one making sparks because the next think they do is hit the pavement. If you lean over far enough for this to happen you are levering the tire off the ground with the shiny parts of the bike. Chrome plated steel is slippery and the bike will slide right out from under you as soon as the tire looses traction. I'm not sure you can do this with a GZ250 because the pegs are so low to the ground you would probably hit your foot before you got metal but cruisers with low slung pipe will drag the on the pavement if you are pushing the envelope. The only time I ever made sparks with my GZ250 was when I got snagged by an edge trap along a gutter and instantly turned the bike into the curb. If you look at the bottom end of your pegs you will see a rubber tab that sticks out about a half inch. That s what touches first. I had my foot forcefully thrown into the saddle bag once because I was riding with my foot halfway off the peg and my fot hit the ground. Scared the hell out of me.
This is the basic list I'm using to eliminate bikes from my list:
1. Must have a long history.
2. Must have a good support group.
3. Must have high reliability. See item 1. US Marines use KLR650s for couriers.
4. Must be easy to maintain. See item 1.
5. Must be fairly low maintenance. See item one.
6. Must have a large cargo carrying capability for camping trips and grocery shopping.
7. Must have readily available parts and bolt on accessories available at somewhat reasonable prices.
8. Center stands are highly desirable. The facilitate maintenance and road side repairs as well as makes parking the bike in the garage take less room.
9. Must be able to ride on any road. For me this pushes the KLR650 to the top of the list.
10. Must be able to go at least 200 miles on a tank of gas preferable before hitting reserve. In some areas this can be very important.
11. Under nice to have would be comfortable riding for two. You can ride two on a KLR650 but I really don't think it would be very practical or comfortable so this is how the road bikes get into the mix.
Harley's have a long history and IMHO it ain't good. They are getting better, but they are definitely smooth pavement only. Did I mention horribly expensive.
BMW had some biles I liked but my wallet could not stand them. They are also a little to quirky for me. Parts are very expensive.
The KLR650 comes out on top any way I look at it and if it works good enough as a rood bike and a commuter I may end up with two of these in the garage and for get the rest. If I feel I want real road bike then the Kawasaki Concourse will probably win out. The Nighthawks are very appealing. Nighthawks almost put Harley Davidson out of business and if the Feds had not made it illegal for them to sell larger bikes for several years Harley Davidson might be history. How ever nice the older Nighthawks are they are old and maintaining one could turn into a hobby and the newer ones don't quite fit the mold for me. Plus they don't make them any more. They have stopped for short periods before so next year we could see a new version of the Nighthawk.
At some point I will probably have a Ninja 250 or 500 just because I want one. They completely fill the commuter roll and I think riding one would just be a lot of fun.
Seems like you are going to head in the direction of cruiser with the reference of the 883. Keep in mind the pricing of Harley, also that the sportsters are top heavy and not very low to the ground. I am in no way knocking harley, i was even looking into a sportster (used) when i was bike shopping. I just found them too tall and narrow and top heavy. I like to sit low and have a low center of gravity. I cant afford that 'comfort' on a harley lol. This is why i went for japanese cruiser. Also, the 883 is 5 hp less than say my spirit 750 believe it or not. But if thats what you want, by all means go for it. They just werent my cup of tea, for others they are excellent.
Honestly, Honda has the best built bikes in the cruiser catagory. I seen it over and over in reviews how reliable honda is. If i were to sway you ... i would say go for a Honda. They also have a huge following on the net (forums etc).
I will say it again, the only person who can pick a bike out for yourself is YOU. Just like i said above, go sit on as many that interest you. No two people will find the same bike comfortable to them. I sat on a bunch i really liked the look of only to find the pegs were too close to me, handlebars too 'bull horned', headlight too far into my view...things like that. Every bike has something 'different' about it making it a 'job' to find what fits you best. Remember, its your butt that has to sit on it on long rides!
As for cruisers taking turns too wide because of going too fast into it... well, that would be rider error. If you wide out on a turn because you entered too fast, then shame on you. Entering corners with a cruiser is like any other bike, set it up before you enter, sweep the corner and accelerate out. Theres no reason you should take a corner wide like that unless you are doing it wrong. I have no problem tearing up twisties on the Spirit :)
Peg dragging, unlikely unless you are tearing ass on twisties leaning that bike for all its worth (remembering that most tires will only take 1.1g's before letting loose while leaning). Pipe dragging, no way. Show me a bike that the exhaust is lower than the peg on a lean and i'll eat my shoe (minus those lowrider customs that are 2" off the ground). Thats why pegs lift up, so when u do drag one, you just pee your pants a little bit lol but you wont lift the bike off the tires. I am no maniac on twisties, and i've got some major twists around here and never come close to dragging a peg besides 90 degree turns going 10mph. Even then, im probably an inch or two away from dragging.
As for having to stop all the time on a cruiser: I've ridden my Spirit on 100+ mile ride arounds just getting myself lost without taking constant breaks. I may stop once for a drink or a smoke break, but very rarely because of being uncomfortable/in pain. Now, my $450 mustang seat has alot to do with that obviously, so you will want to change out seats or find one with a touring seat already on (much cheaper that way lol).
As for plugging my bike to give you a personal opinion, sure i can give that a go. I would have to say that after all the looking i did, sitting i did, research i did that the honda line just stood out above the rest. I love my spirit. I really like the feel of the drag bars, so that i have to lean a little bit instead of sit up holding onto bullhorns. I like the factory forward controls because i can stretch my legs out a little better (i also put 4" fwd controls on it, i can put my legs straight out now if i position them just right on the highway, VERY comfortable for me). I really like the liquid cooling mainly because i live in town and there is a stop light every dam block. Works great when i am in town riding around. Liquid cooling was a BIG seller on my list of 'wants'. I wanted shaft drive for the low maintenance and quietness, but spirits are chain, so i took a loss there (although, the 07s are now shaft, yet they are air cooled now lol. one step forward, one step back). I like wide bikes, the shadow line sure takes care of that area. Chrome, i cant get enough of it. The shadow has more chrome on it than just about any other bike on the market (w00t). That saves me alot of money not having to buy chrome replacement parts. I like LOUD bikes, aftermarket pipes were also on my list of 'wants'. I took the baffles out of it and its about as loud as any harley out there. Accessories: again honda kicks ass in this dept. Yamaha also is VERY good with aftermarket parts availability ( i almost bought a vstar because of that ).
Personal preference, i will probably be sticking with Honda for a long time to come. Whenever i decide to move to another bike, it WILL be a Honda 1100 'something'.
Again, keep us posted on your progress! Me an bob will surely help out answering any questions you have (and possibly arguing which is a better bike LOL).
PS: ive dealt with salesmen at MontgomeryCycleCenter... depending who you get, they arent very helpful (i had one guy try to talk me out of buying a GZ lol). Blackmans in Emmaus ... GREAT salesmen there. They will encourage you to sit on all their bikes, answer any questions you have, give suggestions and are generally very nice to deal with. Not once did they ask 'so, whats your price range' which irritates me when they ask that (if you lowball, they dont want to waste time with you). I told them i was 'shopping' for a bike and was unsure what i wanted ... they swooped right in and helped me out.
lots to read, lots to digest. I am not dead set on harley, nor anyother brand. I went to scotts yesterday (probably somewhat close to you) and sat on a yamaha v-star custom (on the floor). it's a 650, and all blacked out, price was under 6k. I can report back on every bike i sit on but that is nonsense, i will take all the advise and keep shopping. I did stop to see the triumps. there's a machine called the "rocket" it is a 2200cu in. This things is a monster.
i'll be back. and will go back to look at the Honda's.
Badbob
11-25-2006, 10:17 AM
I don't know of anyone who makes a bad bike.
There are just some I don't like for various reasons. Selecting a bike is a very personal thing that greatly depends on what you intend to do with it and your personal tastes.
Yep, Scotts in Coopersburg - forgot about them! They were pretty good with answering questions and also leaving you alone to sit and look (although their bikes are WAY too close to each other, did you notice that? LoL)
The Vstar Custom is exactly the bike i "almost" had on ebay till i got outbid at the last minute! That was while i was still deciding on a final bike, it was an impulse bid (it was soooo sweet).
This is the basic list I'm using to eliminate bikes from my list:
1. Must have a long history.
2. Must have a good support group.
3. Must have high reliability. See item 1. US Marines use KLR650s for couriers.
4. Must be easy to maintain. See item 1.
5. Must be fairly low maintenance. See item one.
6. Must have a large cargo carrying capability for camping trips and grocery shopping.
7. Must have readily available parts and bolt on accessories available at somewhat reasonable prices.
8. Center stands are highly desirable. The facilitate maintenance and road side repairs as well as makes parking the bike in the garage take less room.
9. Must be able to ride on any road. For me this pushes the KLR650 to the top of the list.
10. Must be able to go at least 200 miles on a tank of gas preferable before hitting reserve. In some areas this can be very important.
11. Under nice to have would be comfortable riding for two. You can ride two on a KLR650 but I really don't think it would be very practical or comfortable so this is how the road bikes get into the mix.
Harley's have a long history and IMHO it ain't good. They are getting better, but they are definitely smooth pavement only. Did I mention horribly expensive.
Sounds like my Suzuki Boulevard C50 (805cc). They have been written up in the latest Crusier magazine. You can also read a reprint comparison with the other mid-sized bikes in an online motorcycle magazine. I forget the link but do a Google search. It is the top selling mid-sized bike for the last 5 years. Must be a reason. Also check out the VolusiaRiders.com website for loads of information. Another great forum with extremely helpful people.
I know Harleys are a popular name but expensive to buy and expensive to maintain. "90 percent of the Harleys that have been sold are still on the road...They never made it back home." ;) Sorry, I couldn't help myself!
Cheers!
The last post should be modified regarding the C50.
1. It is not used by US Marines for couriers as far as I know.
2. Does not have a center stand
3. Not for off road use.
4. It is just fine to ride 2 up comfortably.
I should have read the previous posts more carefully.
Bill,
I read your post indepentantly from the specifics of the quoted text, meaning that i looked at the C50 keeping in mind the check list. I like the cruiser style because of the looks and feeling more like a car position rather then leaning forward with my feet under or slightly behindf me.
I rode a dual sport in my PA motorcycle training class. The bike handled much better then I expected. The seat height was a bit high for me but hte kicker was the gear shift and rear brake levers were way to small. Obviously, I got used to it but I do like the larger controls. No knocking the dual sports - when I see people riding them, I do not like the look of the hand gripsor the way the rider sits. If I wanted to ride off the road then ontp trails and not look back, then I would get one. Besides, being able to ride off a road, jump over obsticles or in the air the bike has to be able to take a bit more abuse then a cruiser.
The bottom line is - all posts on here are educational. After riding about 50 miles yesterday, I was thinking to just buy a bigger bike and seeing if it is much different, if not then I would keep the GZ since everything is so accessible for maintenance. (This assumes that the larger the bike the more parts and maintence costs.)
In all honesty, a bigger bike is MUCH different than the GZ. Trust me. I loved my GZ, but as soon as i hopped on that 750 i didnt look back. I got home and said "well, im selling the gz". GZ is just what its meant to be - a starter bike (or commuter). To someone new, they are awesome. Put a few thousand miles under it then move to a big bike and you wont believe the difference. Go back and sit on the gz after a 50 mile ride on the big bike. It literally feels like a 50cc mini bike.
Not knocking the GZ at all. I wouldnt have traded anything for it as my starter bike. I just put several thousand miles on it and got bored. The gz was just too uncomfortable for long rides and having to stop every half hour was getting annoying (to stretch and get rid of the butt pain). Now, i can go 3hrs non stop and have minimal butt pain after getting off it after a long ride.
Badbob
11-28-2006, 07:25 AM
Put as few thousand miles on your GZ250 while you make up your mind. :)
One note about dual sport bikes. They are good all round bikes that are very good for commuters. Pot holes don't bother a KLR much and they can go up or down curbs or even stairs with no problem. Those road construction areas that give my GZ250 fits are not a problem for these bikes. This helps to make them good commuter bikes. Some city streets a worse than many back country dirt roads. So they have their place in the city as well.
My GZ is an '01 with 3200 miles. Maybe by the spring I'll do another 300 or so. This all depands on teh weather in the NE, (outside of Philadelphia).
All the points on your last post are well taken (especially keeping miles low - for resale, etc.), I do question what kind of City roads you have that are worse then off road. I sure hope they are temp for construction not permanent roads.
I can totally agree with you on the dualsport, they have so much suspension travel that i can see stairs as mot being an issue. Curbs, it would laugh at.
As these posts go back and forth, I can see why, once getting into riding, people have more then one or two bikes. For me, at this point, it's a price point since It is really a toy and not used for anythign real contructive except going to the store here and there.
Badbob
11-28-2006, 02:05 PM
I obviously don't care about the millage. I bought it to learn as much as possible on. I figured the money was gone when I handed them the check. When and if I get ready to sell I expect to sell for half or less of my purchase price. You need seat time to learn and you get seat time by riding. I want as much experience as I can get before I go on to the next level what ever that might be.
If you will reread my post you'll note that I said back country dirt roads not off road. I've seen a lot worse city streets than where I live today. Mostly in places where it shows a lot and they have this thing about slinging salt everywhere. Pot holes that would kill you if you hit them with a GZ250. Broken pavement and edge traps of every description. Huge holes in the road that are not completely covered with those slipery steel plates (death trap for any bike). Need I mention construction where even the cage drivers are afraid to go fast. Man hole covers sticking up three or four inches above the pavement. I was on a trip years ago and while crossing a bridge I saw a hole in the pavement that went all the way through. These are a few things that come to mind.
Things you can do with your GZ250:
There are meets for 250s. The next time I see an announcement I will repost it here.
There are a few people who love 250s and have a herd of them. There is a 250cc Yahoo Group as well as a couple of web sites.
At least one person has ridden his GZ250 to Alaska and back.
Go on camping trips. I have been on one and plan on going on more. There were three people a two GZ250s on this trip. Round trip total about 800 miles.
Tour the back roads. I've ridden as much as 474 miles in a day and never touched any thing larger than US highway. I like county roads best. More to see and the riding is much more laid back.
Learn to be a good rider on the cheap. Is cheap to by its cheap to own and if you scratch it up while your learning so what. Thats what I got mine for and believe me I've got scratches. If ti makes you feel bad to drop a GZ250 imagine how you would feel if you paid $15 0r $20 dollars and you dropped it.
I'm not going to waste my time worrying about resale value. I'm going to think about the next ride.
One,
I have found Dupo and Badbob to be two of the best sources of information regarding the GZ250. So you have come to the right place to learn and to get valuable advice (as evidenced by the earlier posts to your questions).
I didn't have a link for you earlier but here is a website to check out if you haven't already. Lots of reviews of crusiers if that is what you are interested in.
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadte ... st_finder/ (http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/motorcycle_road_test_finder/)
Cheers!
That review site is pretty good. They had a review of all the 250cc cruisers and that review pretty much made up my mind on which bike i wanted to start with. (that, and sitting on a rebel certainly turned me off to them lol).
Badbob
11-28-2006, 04:11 PM
I'm slipping up. I should have thought of that link myself. There is lots of good stuff on the Motorcycle Cruiser site.
That review site is pretty good. They had a review of all the 250cc cruisers and that review pretty much made up my mind on which bike i wanted to start with. (that, and sitting on a rebel certainly turned me off to them lol).
My wife and I took the safety course which uses the GZ250 and as a result were pretty much sold on them. :tup: We also sat on the Rebel and had the same experience. :tdown:
Cheers!
Yea those rebels are made for VERY small people. I turned the handlebars and hit my knee. Knew right there, it wasnt for me.
i am still on my search.... over the weekend, i met a guy with a sportster 1200 for sale. after talking to him for a few minutes, he asked if i wanted to ride the bike, I said yes. i could not believe the power difference between the GZ and the sportster 1200. I emailed the guy and told him that the bike has too much power, i still can't believe that it had so much power. is a 1200 ok or should i keep looking at bikes under the 1000cc range. yes, i know it is all my decision and how i feel but I am looking for another perspective regarding cc's on bikes relative to the rider, etc.
Honestly, look up the horsepower rating for that bike. I say this because the difference between my Spirit 750 and the Spirit 1100 is only 5 HP. Yes, 5 HP lol. The bigger difference is all in the low end power of the two bikes. The 1100 will get you to 60 faster than the 750. I purposely did NOT get an 1100 because i thought it would be 'too much' for me. Now i am kinda mad not checking into it and seeing there is virtually no HP difference, just low end torque and i think 50 lbs.
Also, dont forget you have been riding a 250cc bike. Going from that 20 hp motor to a 50 hp motor is a HUGE jump. 1st time on anything 750cc or larger will feel like going from a donkey to a racing horse. I had the same feeling riding the Spirit the first time. On the way home the first thing i said out loud was 'holy shit!' LOL. Its gonna feel like a monster but it wears off rather quickly once you give it a few rides. So yea, you really do get used to it. After a week of riding you will feel kinda dumb for being intimidated by it lol. I did ;)
Maybe a 750cc would be a good jump for right now? I dont know, its totally up to how you feel, but taking into consideration the last paragraph i am certain i could have jumped to an 1100 and been just as comfortable on it as i am the 750. So keep that in mind.
The only thing i dont like about sportsters is how skinny they are and top heavy. Not to mention how expensive harley add ons are. I pay ALOT less for aftermarkets than i would owning a harley. If you got the money to dump ... go for it. I am, however, on a budget lol. I know one person who bought a sporty and she complains alot about the prices of aftermarket parts lol... but she dont mind spending the moolah. I have never had the privelage of riding one, so i cant say first hand how they ride or how the power feels on them, so take what i say with a grain of salt.
Like i had said before, if you wanna meet up sometime, maybe in Coopersburg (half way point) you are more than welcome to take mine for a spin. I do have 4" forward controls on, so my pegs arent in stock position, but you could get a feeling for a 750cc. I dont know if we are going to have any more good riding days on a weekend any time soon, but if we do, just give me a holler.
Dupo:
These are points that I never thought about. Regarding the Harley, I am not set on one nor leading in anyway towards one. The sportster that I road was nice, quick, smooth, nimble, etc. That's not the only ting I look for, I am also looking for eye appeal (my eye), to me that Sportster's front wheel and tire and not me, it's very large and very narrow (both a big negative in my appeal book).
I will absolutely take you up on the coopersburg meet. I road us there once maybe 5 miles south just for a highway run. the 250 was not the best on the road, it really seemed to strugle. However, before I decide and purchase - i would like to try yours. As you know we'll have to wait for the weather to turn, way too cold for me.
-One
Oh yea, i know what you mean about looks. I tossed a few out the door based soley on the look of the bike. The boulevards are a prime example of that. Nice bikes, look kinda gay to me LOL. So i passed on the entire line. The more expensive they got, the dumber they looked i thought. The 'big' one, to me, looked like a '54 chevy with a genetic problem.
Yea i dont know about the meeting, i think winter has set in. If we happen to get some miraculous warm days i'll be up for it. As of right now i put the bike in my kitchen lol. Couldnt have it outside freezing ya know :)
well - i have been taking my time, asking TONS of questions, including at different dealers. basically, i think that the 750 would be a big step, although i was originally told to buy at 750 from the start. now, i am thinking and asking more and more questions which leads me to believe that a 750 would or could be outgrown within a year. now, i am looking at the 1100 series. yamaha has the vstar - classic and custom. at this point, i'm now looking at that line since the weight between the 750 to the 1100 is minor. one big thing about the yamaha is the oil changes are a bear and all forums say to put a kit on to make the changes easier. otherwise, i figure that there is a much longer period of time before i need to move up. besides the above, i would like to take a passenger and was told the 1100 would handle the passenger much better then the 750.
i am just writing my thoughts for now and will keep all posted. if there are any suggestion - pro or con, please let me know.
also, i will want to sell my 250 in the spring - it has about 3500 it's an '01 and rides like a dream if anyone knows someone looking for this bike.... let me know. it's inspected in PA and good until 10/07. i live just north of Philly near montgomerville.
Oh yea, i know what you mean about looks. I tossed a few out the door based soley on the look of the bike. The boulevards are a prime example of that. Nice bikes, look kinda gay to me LOL. :)
Well, I don't know about gay but when I'm riding my Boulevard C50 (805cc) I'm pretty happy. :)
Looks are subjective and important but you also need to consider what you prefer in the handling and the feel of the ride. For example you will find a difference in the handling and road feel between a thin and a fat front tire. For me the solid ride of the fatter front tire is more comfortable. You may prefer something different. It helps to ride a few different designs to know the differences regardless of the look of the bike.
Last week I rode a couple of Victory motorcycles to see how they handled with the different frame and wheel set up (same power at 1634cc). One had a 130 -70/18 front tire and the other had a 80 - 90/21 front tire. Rear tires were the same. Big difference! Beautiful bikes with lots of power. I ran through the gears to get them up to highway speed (60mph) and when I looked down at the speedometer to check it was already at 85 and fast heading north. Now there is a bike you won't outgrow too soon. Very solid and well built but I still prefer the fit of my 805cc C50 and know that once I make a couple of changes (forward controls and a little lower) it will fit my 6'1" body a little better).
A 750 or 800 cc power plant will suit most folks and cruise at highway/interstate speeds all day just fine. After that you are paying more for a little faster acceleration and gas. A few decades back this class was the big bike and people cruised all over the country with no problems. This class of bike is probably one of the best values today. If someone was to give me a larger displacement bike I wouldn't refuse it but I wouldn't spend the extra money to buy one. Be careful about getting caught up in the idea of outgrowing a bike. If you think you will "outgrow" a 750/800cc bike and need an 1100cc bike how long before you outgrow that for a couple hundred more cc's then a couple more again adinfinitum.
You mentioned that the weight between the 750 and the 1100 is minor. If that is the case then I personally wouldn't spend the extra money on the 1100 for that reason alone. For handling a passenger I would want more than a minor amount of additional weight and I would want it balanced. Again you have to ride.
Time in the saddle on a bike that fits and handles the way YOU like is what will put a smile on your face. If your present bike does this for you then enjoy your ride while you take your time to RIDE other bikes. Talking about a bike won't replace riding the bike.
Cheers!
Oh yea, i know what you mean about looks. I tossed a few out the door based soley on the look of the bike. The boulevards are a prime example of that. Nice bikes, look kinda gay to me LOL. :)
Well, I don't know about gay but when I'm riding my Boulevard C50 (805cc) I'm pretty happy. :)
Sorry bill i shoulda been more specific, i meant those futuristic looking new boulevards. I just dont see those as cruisers, rather more of a T3 movie prop.
Oh yea, i know what you mean about looks. I tossed a few out the door based soley on the look of the bike. The boulevards are a prime example of that. Nice bikes, look kinda gay to me LOL. :)
Well, I don't know about gay but when I'm riding my Boulevard C50 (805cc) I'm pretty happy. :)
Sorry bill i shoulda been more specific, i meant those futuristic looking new boulevards. I just dont see those as cruisers, rather more of a T3 movie prop.
Not a problem Dupo. I don't get rattled easily. I noticed the smiley face on your post and got a grin from your description. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to razz a little.
By the way which bikes are you looking at? Got any links/pictures? I haven't seen anything from Suzuki that are futuristic.
Cheers!
http://www.suzuki-bikes.com/images/bikes/2007/Boulevard-M109R.jpg
I understand. When I first saw that model I thought - Batman. I'm not sure where this fits into the scheme of things. Not a cruiser for sure. I sat on it and it was not comfortable for me but I don't remember why. Oh wait - now I do. I was leaning forward too much instead of down in the saddle.
It has been getting good reviews in its class and there was an article in a recent magazine comparing it to the Victory and another bike. Fortunately Suzuki has considered a C109 that should mimic the C50 and C90 models so it will be a little more traditional design. We'll see. It should be out in a few months.
Cheers!
Jordan310
03-17-2007, 04:41 AM
The GZ250.
I bought it new. Yea, I know. But I thought .. hey, Im a new rider, Im not trying ta go fast, I dont know what Im doing, and I dont wanna kill myself.
Besides .. I was trying to buy a Suziki M50 but got turned down for credit, so I thought - hey wha the heck. It has been a fun ride, and sometimes frusterating, but Im still learning. Ive only had the bike for a month now, and know that in a few more, Ill be ready to move up. Honestly, I dont really see needing to move up past 600-700cc's (800 Tops).
I already ride the GZ on the dealiest of freeways, and even got a damn speeding ticket to prove that the GZ can go just fine.
Yea, it lacks power, and in a tight squeeze, yer pretty much screwed at high speeds - sometimes even low, but its a REALLY good learning experience.
I looked at a lot o bikes, and originaly I wanted a sports bike but my wife had a fit, so I got this little mini cruiser. Hey, its still fun for now, but honestly, .. I see moving up to a 600-650, and then the M50. Im actually glad I didnt get it to learn on. In any case, .. Im in the same boat, or will be soon.
When I sell the GZ (if I do), I was thinking of a Honda 599. Its a naked bike, and kind of good looking.
Looks like a good all around bike for the slabs, and the city. Plenty of power and not a full racer or cruiser.
How did you get a speeding ticket on the interstate in LA if you're not trying to go fast (and after only one month of riding)? :??:
Maybe your wife sees something that you don't see if she had a fit about a sport bike. Speed can be your friend but it also kills. An accomplished rider is more concerned with finesse and control. That can be learned on any size or style bike. There is plenty of time to move to a larger or different style bike. Seems like you've got yourself a "good one" in your choice of bikes and wives. :2tup:
Don't mean to sound like an old fart.
Cheers!
Jordan310
03-17-2007, 08:48 PM
Well, yea.
I mean, I was going as fast as the bike would let me, but I was in the carpool lane, and I also was with the rest of the traffic.
I had tons of room in front of me, no cars ..
I know, I know. I wasnt really going downhill.
It was a straight pass, and the wind was kinda blowing in every direction.
I can post a copy of the speeding ticket if youd like. Yea, I got the bike up to 80, and its manageable.
Cant do that too often, but yea. And I also told the cop that the spedometer must be broken, because I couldnt do 80 on a 250cc bike. He just said, well, .. I checked twice to be sure, and yea .. Im not a mechnic, but you were def doing 79. Hmph. In any case, Ive learned my lesson. I really do need a better bike though soon enough. At least one that does not bitch at me when hitting 75. I think the whole reason I got the ticket was because it WAS a little GZ, and the cop saw that I was flying. Lol. :roll:
I'm just glad you stayed upright and safe. These GZ250s are really impressive bikes. Have you been to the website and read about the guy who rides his cross country to Alaska?
Cheers!
Jordan310
03-17-2007, 11:45 PM
Thanks bill.
Yea, stayin upright.
Learned my lesson though. Its not a speedbike. I need to cool it a bit. =)
Sarris
05-30-2008, 12:06 AM
I have three bikes. A 2005 GZ250, a 2006 Harley Sportster 1200, and a 2006 Harley Street Glide. A bike for every purpose. The GZ is my popcorn popper. I use it for all the errands and in town messing around. 72 mpg is very nice. The Sportster is a bike to take to shows, or when you just want to go fast & look good. I plan to make it into a chopper soon (about $3000 from now). The Street Glide is a bagger with AM/FM/WB/CD/MP3 and cruise. It is a super touring bike for anything over 100 miles.
Keep the GZ (if you can afford to) and use it for the purpose it was intended for. It really is a great bike. My GZ gets more use than my Harleys, seeing that gas is up to $4 a gallon !!!! :tup:
Water Warrior 2
05-30-2008, 12:24 AM
Just gassed up the cage today. $4.97 for a U.S. gal in the GWN. Gonna cost $30.00 just to fill my VStrom 650.
cconleyjr
07-22-2008, 03:47 AM
I think bob has about talked me into a ninja 250 for a second bike i'm going to move up to a bigger cruiser someday but I think I'd like to have a something like that for a second bike
LilNinja77
07-22-2008, 11:10 PM
I think bob has about talked me into a ninja 250 for a second bike i'm going to move up to a bigger cruiser someday but I think I'd like to have a something like that for a second bike
You won't be disappointed :2tup:
Arthur----07 Ninja 250 owner
Ride safe
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