Footrest Failure

[patrick_777]

On my way home from work this morning (03:00), I thought my shift lever was sticking to the top of my boot. It shifted okay and there weren't any other drive problems, so I rode it on home and decided to take a look. Apparently, one of the bolts attaching the front footrest to the frame vibrated out and the other one was on its way.

After getting out later and looking at it, and the remaining bolt, I decided to head to Lowe's and try to find a replacement, which was pretty easy, except it was Imperial instead of Metric. No big deal, the threads were still the same, right?

I got home and began screwing in the bolt to the frame-hole, which seemingly worked just fine for about 3/4 of the way down. Then it started hitting some resistance. In a thankfully rare moment of absolute stupidity and stubbornness, I twisted a little too hard and sheared the bolt head off at the frame. I realize that I should have probably gone ahead and ordered the proper (read: tempered) bolts from BikeBandit instead of going for an alternative, but as mentioned before, I'm lazy and apparently impatient as well.

So, now what?

My first inclination is to drill out the hole and retap it, but being tapped into the frame is a variable I'm not certain about.

My second thought is to have someone come out and simply weld the peg brackets onto the frame permanently.

Here are the pics I took after the fact. Click through for more detail.

http://www.idlerants.com/images/leftside_flash_th.jpg (http://www.idlerants.com/images/leftside_flash.jpg)

http://www.idlerants.com/images/frame_bottom_th.jpg (http://www.idlerants.com/images/frame_bottom.jpg)

http://www.idlerants.com/images/leftside_full_th.jpg (http://www.idlerants.com/images/leftside_full.jpg)

Any suggestions here?

[Easy Rider]

After getting out later and looking at it, and the remaining bolt, I decided to head to Lowe's and try to find a replacement, which was pretty easy, except it was Imperial instead of Metric. No big deal, the threads were still the same, right?

In a thankfully rare moment of absolute stupidity and stubbornness, I twisted a little too hard and sheared the bolt head off at the frame.

No the threads are NOT the same. :cry:

Twice in one day.........rare ?? :oops:

Where are the actual threads? If they are "right there", within 1/2 inch of where it broke, then the solution is drill and tap.
If they are WAY down inside the hole near the frame then........????

Either way, I think you should get the right, proper size bolt and take it with you to a machine shop where they can do it right. Don't really want to chance a rare third occurrance, do we ?? ;)

It is possible, and I'm guessing somewhat likely at this point, that it will need to be drilled out to the next LARGER standard metric size and a larger bolt installed.

[Water Warrior 2]

Oh my. Betcha won't do that again. No, I am not laughing at you and pointing. Been there done that many moons ago. You must always go metric on Japanese bikes. Even a mod that is entirely built from scratch should be metric just in case you need to tighten or adjust on the road. The bike tool kit will save you. No need for 2 different sets of tools on the bike.
Back to the footrest. With a bunch of luck you may be lucky enough to drill it out without destroying the threads( a slightly smaller drill is used)and use an easyout to remove the broken bolt. In a perfect world it would then be very thin material with threads on the outside surface. If you have never done this, find some one who has and explain the situation.
To prevent future mishaps it might be a good idea to use Loctite on all the bolts you can easily remove and reinstall. The blue Loctite will work nicely. Keep us updated.

[patrick_777]

This could have very easily gone into the Lessons Learned forum. Lately, it seems I'm going to be the one to fill that forum up.

[bigwonton]

Well, looks like you learned your lesson - a hard one at that. I've found the best place to find metric bolts is at the auto parts store or else McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/) will pretty much have anything you need.

Maybe go to Sears and get an extractor set and try to back it out... you may need to re-tap (or at least chase) the threads afterwards.

[Orpheus]

Isn't there also a difference in the pitch of the threads on metric (like 1.0, 1.25 and 1.5)? For example, you could buy three different 14mm bolts and they can have three different spacings between the threads? Or am I just making stuff up?

[jonathan180iq]

I'd have it just welded on. You can probably get it done for a song.

[Easy Rider]

My first inclination is to drill out the hole and retap it, but being tapped into the frame is a variable I'm not certain about.


Here's a lesson learned I can pass on:

If you think you have a problem now, it gets 10X worse if you break off an easy-out or a tap bit in the hole you have drilled into the broken bolt. :cuss:

If you decide to do this yourself, be careful with the extractor/tap so as not to make matters worse!

:tup:

[davtnn]

This sounds like a job for an experienced machinist or a very experienced mechanic... so having someone else do it might just be a good investment ... (just a thought )

[davidsuserid]

I know you said "sheared the bolt head at the frame", but if the bolt was only 3/4 of the way in, is it really sheared off at the frame, or is there still some bolt sticking out? I ask because if there is enough to grab it with some locking pliers, just back it out that way. Lube it up real good with penetrating oil, then go to work. Since you used a standard bolt, i would also recommend re-tapping with the proper metric tap, if the way i suggested works.

[jonathan180iq]

You can see in the photo that there is very little bolt left. Nothing to grab.

I like the idea submitted earlier about drilling out the stuck bolt and letting the pieces fall out.
I don't like it better than just having that sucker welded on, but I do like it.

[patrick_777]

After a run back to Lowe's and a $4 8/1.25mm tap and a few $0.15 bolts, I drilled out the offender and tapped the hole, as seen below:

http://www.idlerants.com/images/hole_drilled_tapped_th.jpg (http://www.idlerants.com/images/hole_drilled_tapped.jpg)

I checked the fit of the bolt (learning from my earlier mistakes, eh) and then bolted them up carefully:

http://www.idlerants.com/images/footrest_fixed_th.jpg (http://www.idlerants.com/images/footrest_fixed.jpg)

While I was in the mood, I replaced the other side bolts as well. The bottom one was ground down pretty well from me pegging that side a couple of times in some hard turns.

They all took the manual-recommended 19 lb/ft of torque though, so I'm not too worried about the strength of the fit. I couldn't find my Locktite, and I didn't want to drive anywhere else today, so that'll have to wait until I'm out again.

Thanks for the suggestions. My confidence was built up successfully after reading this thread.

And, Jonathan, I would rather have it welded on, and may still very soon, but riding it to a machine shop in the earlier condition seemed dangerous, or at least somewhat precarious. ;) It could be enough of a reason for me to learn to weld though.

[jonathan180iq]

Now that it's bolted in place, you could just add a couple of spot welds, so in case it ever happens again, you'll have a backup.

I'd love to learn to weld. Thought about that a lot. But, I'd rather have air tools first. Those home welding kits are pretty expensive.

[patrick_777]

Now that it's bolted in place, you could just add a couple of spot welds, so in case it ever happens again, you'll have a backup.

I'd love to learn to weld. Thought about that a lot. But, I'd rather have air tools first. Those home welding kits are pretty expensive.

Yeah, I'll probably just ride it over to a machine shop one of these days and have them do that. I've been toying with the idea of getting a MIG welder for years now, but just never got up the guts. Just looking through Harbor Freight, you can pick one up for under $200 now. Of course that's no guarantee on quality or experience.

[countrydad]

Welding isn't that hard. There are some details you need to learn, but that is easy with the internet. I wouldn't weld anything that I had to rely on heavily for a while, but "burn some rod." That is the best way to learn. I picked up an old Lincoln buzz box for $50 dollars, and still use it. A wire feed is more convenient and probably easier to learn with, but you can't beat the price. Besides, unless you are a professional or doing some real heavy duty work, you won't need a fancy set up. If you can though, I would recommend an AC/DC since somethings are easier to weld in DC.

Go for it. Right now I am welding a sprayer to go on the three point hitch of my tractor with a 25' spread and folding booms. What a blast!

[mrlmd1]

Keep an eye on those bolts. Most of that stuff (like 15 cent bolts) comes from China and may be inferior steel and may rust pretty quickly. You may want to coat them with something to try and prevent rust even though they may be "galvanized".
Has anyone else ever heard of a problem like this, something coming loose from vibration and almost falling off? It's enough too keep an eye on tire pressure, oil level, brake fluid level, etc, etc, without having to go over every nut and bolt on a bike periodically but I guess prevention is the best part of safety.

[Easy Rider]

Has anyone else ever heard of a problem like this, something coming loose from vibration and almost falling off?

Yes.
That's probably why there is an item for that on the maintenance check list in the owner's manual.
You do have one, don't you? ;)

[mrlmd1]

Yes I do, and I looked it up. In my manual it's on page 27 and 39.
Pg 27- "Always perform a pre-ride inspection before each ride".
Pg 37-says to tighten exhaust pipe nuts and muffler bolts and chassis nuts and bolts at 600, 3000, 6000, 9500 miles, or 3, 15, 30, 45 months.
That's not very often, probably should do it at more frequent intervals, going over the whole bike.

[bigwonton]

As suggested above, probably a good idea to put a spring, tooth or wedge lock washer in there as well as some blue Loctite to reduce the chances of it vibrating out. To further ensure corrosion you can go for a 316 Stainless Steel bolt.

[patrick_777]

Like Jonathan suggested, I'm probably going to get it spot welded now that it's road-worthy again.