Is "All the Gear, All the Time" a minority?

[bigwonton]

After spending a good deal of time this holiday weekend riding around town, I've noticed that the "All The Gear, All The Time" group of riders is definitely in the minority.

I do realize riding is all about how much risk you are willing to accept and I'm not here to tell anybody how to ride, but I've been noticing alot of stuff that just seems downright foolhardy and/or dangerous.

There was one instance of a couple where the passenger was sitting on top of a jacket. The arms of the jacket were just flapping around. I shudder to think what would happen if that jacket got sucked into the spokes.

Then there was the family that was riding down the highway at 65+MPH. Mom and Dad on their HD's with the kids. No face protection/goggles on mom. She had her head cranked at an angle, but how she could see clearly at 65 MPH is beyond me. Kids were wearing helmets, but that was about it. Short sleeves, shorts and sandals completed the rest of their riding outfit.

After having seen severe road rash, I don't think that's a risk I'm willing to take...

[primal]

I think its part ignorance, part an attempt to fit the "biker" mold, and part "it can't happen to me." Unfortunately, I think a large portion of those bikers who don't wear proper safety gear probably don't survive a crash and later change their ways.

The only piece of safety gear I'm lacking is armored pants. And its not because I'm not willing to pay for them. I'm just a big boy (with a short inseam) and its hard enough trying to find regular jeans to fit me. The local shops are also crap as far as apparel is concerned. I'd be pretty much forced to order online (which would be fine if I were easier to fit).

[LilNinja77]

Yes we are a minority.........few and far between normally. I'd say 90% of the riders near me are all "fair weather" riders. They only ride in the warmer months, and only if the weather is clear and sunny. This past fall and winter, I literally could count the number of fellow riders I saw on the roads with my fingers........for the entire span of Nov-Feb.. All of the morons that come out in the warmth seem to absolutely refuse to wear anything more than a helmet, and most often even that is only a skid-lid. Well, there are the wanna-be racers who buy expensive Suomy helmets and Dianese jackets.......and then ride in sneakers and shorts....... :??: :??: :??: None of the cruiser riders here wear anything more than a helmet, except for the very few all year Harley guys who have to wear gear in the winter so they won't freeze. It's only in the winter that I don't feel like the oddball for wearing gear, when I actually see the other riders out.

Everyone I ride with adhere to ATGATT as best they can, and I personally won't leave the driveway without my full set of riding gear on. I've got full leather and full textile, some of it I got at super-bargain prices, some of it at full retail.....all of it was worth every penny. I came to realize some time ago that I couldn't care less what the other riders on the road are wearing/aren't wearing. If they are comfortable with their skin being shredded and ground off in to the pavement, well, it's just not my cup 'O' tea. Sure, when I pull up somewhere and I'm the ONLY rider wearing real gear, I get laughed at........but I'm laughing right back at each and every one of them.

Trying to look "cool" while riding is a self-defeating practice, image is only for riders who stay on long straight roads.
Ride safe

[davtnn]

All a matter of choice of course ...BUT those not having experience with the texture of the road at a good speed really have no appreciation for what it can do..personally i have dumped a bike a few times and know ROAD = HARD and rough. I also Know my own skills and can estimate the skills of the auto drivers and it all adds up to putting as much as you can between the road and you. Let the immortal sport bike riders ride around in speedo shorts and flip flops..

Try Diamond Gusset jeans for motorcycle riders (they have a web site )... cut and reinforced just were we need them ..

[patrick_777]

Sure, when I pull up somewhere and I'm the ONLY rider wearing real gear, I get laughed at........but I'm laughing right back at each and every one of them.

Have you actually been laughed at for wearing gear? I can't imagine the type of d-bag it takes to laugh at someone for wanting to be safe.

Trying to look "cool" while riding is a self-defeating practice, image is only for riders who stay on long straight roads.

I agree with everything LN said here. The idea that looking cool is a little opposite in my (and probably many of yours) mind. The fully geared-out rider, IMO, looks much cooler than a dumbass with a tank and flip-flops on...

And yes, even in a vet-vest with war patches all over it, if they aren't wearing much more than jeans and a head-hankey, they haven't learned much from all of their past "experiences".

To answer the initial post, around here, all-gear is definitely in the minority. OK doesn't have helmet laws, so literally 1 out of about 30 cruiser riders wears anything more than jeans, gloves and glasses. The sport riders tend to scale up though, being an upper-class sleeper town here, they afford and most of them cruise in full-face helmets and a nice, armored jacket. I spent about 4 hours last weekend cruising around counting the number of sport-bike riders in full gear (helmet, jacket, pants, boots, gloves) and got to 15 before I quit. This was after about 30-40 bikes total across town. The cruiser riders were MUCH worse off. I actually saw only 1 that was in full gear (not counting myself, natch) and only 5 or 6 that had helmets, gloves and jeans on, but the major majority of them wore next to nothing. So much bare skin showing, they should just flail it off themselves and preserve it for when they WILL need it in the near future.

In a moment of confession, I went out this afternoon (100 degrees) a block down the street to get my cat some food and I went in a pair of knee-length shorts and a t-shirt. I wore boots and a helmet with my gloves though. It wasn't that bad, but I understand exactly what my jacket really does for me in the scorching heat. It keeps the sun OFF of my SKIN. Just those 20 minutes on the road, and I came back almost sunburned on my arms. AND it keeps me cooler by circulating the air closer around me then the great convection oven of the outside wind does.

[Water Warrior 2]

ATGATT is the only way I can ride. I could ride in jeans and a T-shirt but I can't. Before any ride I pick out the gear for the day and put it on. The older I get the more I value life because I have less left every day. Even a low speed get off or minor bump can hurt without gear if you fall. What value do we put on our health, welfare and quality of life. Dressing up is easier than healing up. Different levels of dress are up to the individual and the amount of risk they are willing to take. It is all about freedom of choice in the end.

[2FIDY]

I went down @ 60mph, w/ a t-shirt, jeans, and a full face, about 13 years ago. I ground a 3" long flat spot on the chin guard, rashed my elbow, and had some muscle protruding through what used to be skin on my left hip. I haven't ridden without my gear since. I was VERY lucky that I didn't hit the bumper that went over my head. It was attached to the car of the old lady that had just pulled out in front of me. At least I think it was an older lady, SHE DIDN'T STOP! Wear your gear. Get laughed at. Know that you are doing the right thing! (And for those who care, or those who like to generalize classes of bikers, the IMMORTAL SPORTBIKE RIDERS that were previously referred to in this thread are [at least in the places I have ridden] just as likely to be properly clad to ride safely as the cruisers are).

[LilNinja77]

Patrick777------yes, I was being serious about getting laughed at for wearing my gear, in fact, it's happened quite a few times at various locations. Both the cruiser and sportbike crowd have laughed at me for it, and of course there has been more than the fair share of non-riders who point and laugh (parking lots are mean places :blush: )

Here's the laundry list of A-holes who apparently think wearing riding gear is funny :
Harley riders
Harley passengers
Metric cruiser riders
Wanna-be racers on sportbikes they have no control over
cage drivers who are blasting the AC while I sit in the humidity/heat
cage drivers who are blasting the heat while I sit in the cold
rednecks in big trucks
wanna-be gangsters in whatever bling'd out bass-machine they happen to be in
high school kids sitting on the bus

.........I think you get the picture. I'd say 95% of the time, all the negativity is in the summer/warmer months, no one seems to want trouble in the winter. I don't know what ever happened to "ride your own ride". About the only group that seem to enjoy my full gear are the little kids who always make the "pull a wheelie" motion to me as I ride by......and of course they don't like the gear for the right reasons. They just like it 'cause I look like a racer with all my leathers on. Actually, some of the non-idiot sportbike guys and non-moron cruiser guys do give me a little respect for riding all year with full gear, only because they are the few other riders here that also do the same.

On another note, how pissed off would this make you? I went to Wal-Mart Saturday (yes, July 4th and I went to the Chinese base-camp) to pick up some shotgun shells, and when I came out to get back on the Ninja there were 3........yep, count'em, 3 shopping carts in the parking space I was in. Only one was touching the motorcycle, but I mean really, what the hell?!?!?! I hate Suffolk VA :cuss:

Sorry for the little rant,
Ride safe

[patrick_777]

(And for those who care, or those who like to generalize classes of bikers, the IMMORTAL SPORTBIKE RIDERS that were previously referred to in this thread are [at least in the places I have ridden] just as likely to be properly clad to ride safely as the cruisers are).

Who generalized classes of bikers?

[Doug577]

The other day I saw a rider with no gear (shorts, T-shirt) and a small child on the back (w/ helmet only) holding on for dear life. It's one thing for the rider to have no gear, but...

Seriously, I've just seen pictures of road rash and heard a few stories. ATGATT for me. My skin is awfully important to me. :)

[rusty rider]

When I was 16 and immortal I laid my bike down on a black top country road with no one around and riding with out my hands on the handle bars. Front tire hit a chuck hole handle bars turned 90 degrees and slapped me down on the pavement like a mouse trap. I was wearing a brain bucket, t-shirt, jeans and tennis shoes and leather gloves. Amazingly I landed on top of the bike sliding down the road and throwing a rooster tail of sparks. I panicked put my hands down to try and slow the bike roasted my hands in less than a second, when I yanked my hands up my bare elbow touched the asphalt. You could see the bone in less than a second. Since that day I wear a jacket when I ride, it isn't leather but better than bare skin. I always wear gloves, jeans, and leather shoes or boots. This my not seem appropriate to many, but it is what I wear for protection.

I have always worn a brain bucket since I started riding. I personally don't care what someone else wears nor should they be concerned with what I wear.

[rayzuki]

with the increase in gas prices I am seeing more riders everyday. Almost everyone around here wears all their gear except some of the harley guys. Helmets are manditory in Oregon so everyone wears one. I have been seeing alot of scooter riders with t-shirts and shorts. To me harley, gz250, crotch rocket or scooter road rash is road rash. It doesn't matter what you fall off of. Myself, I won't even go down the street with out full gear.

[Orpheus]

Here in Arizona, I can somewhat understand the logic behind the reasons that people leave the house without all their gear, since you can overheat in just a few miles on a 120 degree day; I've personally experienced clouded judgement (stalled the bike for the first time in a LONG time and had trouble re-starting it) and weakness at the knees due to the heat a few weeks ago. I still wear the leather jacket and 3/4 helmet all the time (along with my everyday outfit of boots and jeans), but usually don't wear the gloves unless I'm planning on going over 45mph for extended periods of time. I'm sure that, for most of the people I see in sleeveless shirts and bandanas (and usually shorts and sandals for the sportbike crowd), it's more about "looking cool" rather than staying cool. Actually, the sportbikers around here are probably 2x more likely to wear a helmet than the cruiser crowd (who are usually the "midlife crisis" types), but still have on freaking shorts and sandals.

[2FIDY]

[quote]Let the immortal sport bike riders ride around in speedo shorts and flip flops..

Guess I was being too sensitive to this comment????? If so, I apologize.... to everyone.

[El Diablo]

I wear helmet and jacket all the time. I don't always wear gloves. I wear boots 95% of the time as I keep loafers at work to change into. When not in boots I am in leather Merrells but they are slip ons and don't give any ankle protection. I wear jeans when I am pleasure riding. For my commute to work I am in Khakis (spelling?) Commute is 4 miles on mostly back streets. I have some Kevlar chaps that I use for hunting that I think will do well for cooler weather.

[delgado3030]

I always wear a full helmet, boots, and gloves but usually shorts and a t-shirt. I tried wearing jeans and a jacket but got too hot. I maybe wearing the wrong things I don't know. Around here(Kalamazoo MI.) traffic is super light and speed limit around town is 35 mph. Visibility is pretty good around here; there are not a lot of hidden driveways so it is pretty hard to have somebody surprise you from pulling out of a lot. You would have to really not be paying attention.

I have yet to go on the highway but definitely plan on getting heavy jeans and an armored jacket before I do

[music man]

In the summer, usually only wear T-shirt, jeans, boots, gloves-(not the protective kind) and Always my trusty helmet. winter time leather jacket, and the rest of what I just said other than I wear a better set of gloves.


I know that I could be more protected, but like alot of people have said on here it is all about weighing risks, and in the summer here it is not uncommon for it to be 105 degrees and be like 75-90 percent humidity, and I just can't make myself put on anymore clothes. I know I will probably regret it when I have road rash all over my body but I also have to weigh the risk of a heat stroke sitting in traffic (not really jokin about that).


So like alot of people on here alot smarter than me have said you just have to weigh the risks and decide how much risk is worth it to ya. Just like riding a motorcycle to begin with.


Later :rawk:

P.S. I know I ramble alot sometimes, but usually somewhere in the course of it I usually get to the point.

[Badbob]

Let them laugh!

Road rash is treated the same as a burn. When they are in the hospital getting the dirt and gravel scrubbed out og their flesh with a brush and antiseptic they will not be laughing.

I've had road rash. I have lots of riding gear and wear it all the time.

[mr. softie]

Myself, I wear armor. I didn't used to. Before the days of mesh you had a choice in hot weather. Roast in leather or take your chances. I used to ride in a tee and jeans. Then I hit a round stone with my front tire at 55+ on some twisties. My 500 lb bike went flying one way and I went sliding 100 feet across the ROUGH blacktop before I wound up on the grass on the side of the road. Talk about a burning sensation! I left a skin skid mark. My hands, arms, back, legs, knees all were deeply abraded and bleeding. I had tried to roll and move about so as to keep from wearing down to the bone in any one spot. All the wounds had bits of stone embedded in them. My daughters who are 27 and 30 now still remember me screaming as the wounds were scrubbed.



This happened on a beautiful clear day with no traffic on a road I had ridden hundreds of times. I was in the hospital and then recovering for months at home. I still have scars 25 years later. The only thing that saved my face was my full face helmet. My tee and jeans were in ribbons. Now with mesh, I can wear armor and be cool at the same time. If I even think of riding without ATGATT I remember what it feels like to have a 40 grit sanding disk run over my skin... and I put it on, and enjoy the ride.

[patrick_777]

Myself, I wear armor. I didn't used to. Before the days of mesh you had a choice in hot weather. Roast in leather or take your chances. I used to ride in a tee and jeans. Then I hit a round stone with my front tire at 55+ on some twisties. My 500 lb bike went flying one way and I went sliding 100 feet across the ROUGH blacktop before I wound up on the grass on the side of the road. Talk about a burning sensation! I left a skin skid mark. My hands, arms, back, legs, knees all were deeply abraded and bleeding. I had tried to roll and move about so as to keep from wearing down to the bone in any one spot. All the wounds had bits of stone embedded in them. My daughters who are 27 and 30 now still remember me screaming as the wounds were scrubbed.



This happened on a beautiful clear day with no traffic on a road I had ridden hundreds of times. I was in the hospital and then recovering for months at home. I still have scars 25 years later. The only thing that saved my face was my full face helmet. My tee and jeans were in ribbons. Now with mesh, I can wear armor and be cool at the same time. If I even think of riding without ATGATT I remember what it feels like to have a 40 grit sanding disk run over my skin... and I put it on, and enjoy the ride.

Thanks softie. Stories like that are what keep me putting my jacket, gloves, boots and FF helmet on every single time I ride.

[music man]

Better yet story's like that are what has convinced me that I am a d@#$a#$ and that I am going payday to shop for whatever protective clothing I can afford all in one check, NO BULL!!!!

[patrick_777]

The internet has a plethora of great and cheap gear, but a brick & mortar store can't be beat for fitting and most of the times, prices. The Cycle Gear shop here in Tulsa has great sales every day, including "damaged" or "imperfect" items. I picked up my Frank Thomas Rage gloves for just under 50% off because they were lightly scuffed on the knuckle-plate.

[music man]

Well its very possible that I will order some stuff on the internet but "try it on at a brick and mortar". thanks for the advice and letting me eat crow on my earlier statements, without raking me over the coals too bad. I guess I was just convincing myself that what I was doing safety wise was good enough just so I could wear what I wanted to. After reading a couple of these story's on here and looking at that horrible crash on the post "Wear your helmet!", man that almost made me sick looking at that. And even though all the gear in the world probably wasn't gonna save that dude, it still makes you think don't it.


That is why this website and places like this are great because you can learn something without having to "learn for yourself" sometimes. If you will notice not all but most of the advocaters of ATGATT on here and elsewhere have taken a spill without gear on, which only tells me one thing since I haven't had that experience.


That I am talking out of my a@# and they know what they are talking about. which is why I am jumping the no to very little gear fence.



Later

[patrick_777]

It's a hard lesson to learn and we may be fortunate enough to learn second-hand from the first-hand experiences of others.

Just look through some medical sites about the process to clean up road rash and replace/regrow skin, it's not pretty and it's life-threatening in a much slower & more painful way than the traumatic and invasive crashes can be.

[Water Warrior 2]

Better yet story's like that are what has convinced me that I am a d@#$a#$ and that I am going payday to shop for whatever protective clothing I can afford all in one check, NO BULL!!!!

Check out New Enough.Com. They have a very good reputation and an excellant return policy if you need it. The close out section can be a very good way to save even more $$. Their online ordering is pretty easy and a phone call will get you personal service from helpful folks.

[primal]

I HIGHLY recommend Newenough.com... got some great gloves and a tank bag from 'em. Super fast shipping, too.

[patrick_777]

An interesting article I read a while back.

I thought it was relevant to the topic a few posts back.

Top 7 Things That Will Happen in a Motorcycle Crash (http://tinyurl.com/6a3nv9)

[Badbob]

All the wounds had bits of stone embedded in them. My daughters who are 27 and 30 now still remember me screaming as the wounds were scrubbed.

My girls can tell you a similar story. I had some bone exposed and still have a bit of the street in my back that was missed. Sounds like yours was worse.

Once in a while when its hot I think about not wearing my riding pants for an instant. The memory of scrubbing dirt and gravel out of flesh will come back and I gear up.

If you feel like you are dressed to slay dragons .....

[roscosmom]

I say "better to be safe and laughed at because you have the proper gear, than to be laughed at because you have no face"....I'm still lookig for a good jacket with elbow pads, back padding and side padding...I have a good helmet, gloves, and ankle boots. Just lacking the jacket...it gets SO hot and humid in cajun land I really would like to find a lighter jacket with padding instead of a leather jacket!

[mr. softie]

I picked up my phoenix 4 jacket(joe rocket) at the local mom and pop motorcycle shop (Phoenix Cycles!) for less than $80. I am very satisfied with it. It comes with a waterproof liner I wear in the morning when it is chilly, and remove for the ride home. This afternoon I rode for 60 miles in stop and go traffic with the temp above 90 and was cozy but not uncomfortable when stopped. When underway the breeze blowing through the mesh was lovely. I'm looking for some ventilated over pants with armor I can wear over shorts cuz my legs do get hot, and I wanna be cool.


I rode all through Europe one summer many years ago, on a BSA 650 Lightning, and I felt like a fool in my jeans. ALL the other riders were wearing full gear. They just looked at me and shook their heads!

[Badbob]

it gets SO hot and humid in cajun land I really would like to find a lighter jacket with padding instead of a leather jacket!

Take a look at the Olympia jackets. I recently purchased and Olympia Bushwacker jacket that I really like it. Way more comfortable than my other jacket and it has a liner. It's an all weather jacket. One interesting feature is the liner is a zip in jacket.

http://www.olympiamotosports.com/bushwacker/bushwacker2008.jpg

http://www.olympiamotosports.com/

[alanmcorcoran]

...I flew into Chicago (I live in SoCal.) On the cab ride from the airport I saw two guys on sport bikes with no helmets, shorts, t-shirts and tennis shoes. I realized/remembered at that point - no helmet law in IL! These guys were sort of half riding responsibly (not going crazy fast) and half not (weaving in and out of traffic, yelling and gesturing to each other - looked like they were playing some game but it might be just my imagination.) In any event, I looked around the rest of the week and I'd say at least half of the riders here don't wear helmets. It was kind of like being in NV and realizing prostitution is legal there.

I wear ATTGMTT. (All of the gear Most of the time.) When I ride to work I wear jeans. It's about 5 miles and all relatively tame stuff. When I go out in the canyons, I wear the whole bit. I don't have any noble sentiments or holier-than-thou attitude about it. It's pretty simple - I'm scared I'll fall off and eff myself up good. If the gear actually works, I'll be very happy. I paid about $350 for my jacket $100 for the pants, $100 for shoes, $20 for gloves, $180 for helmet. I generally overpay for stuff, not a bargain hunter. If there was a suit of invincibility, I'd probably buy and wear that.

I ski with a helmet and I ride a bicycle with a helmet. I don't like helmets, but my brain is about the only good thing I have. I ain't gonna make it on my youth and good looks.

I do think if I bite it at 60 into a guard rail, I'm gonna be just as dead as Mr. T-shirt, but with maybe more skin on my corpse. As Sarris said, "Stuff happens!"

[gooch]

I have noticed that, during commuting times, I am seeing more riders with full gear than without. On the other hand, when I go up to the catskills/delaware valley on the weekends, almost no one is wearing full gear.

Just an observation - people are going to do what they are going to do.

As an aside - I taught my wife about the gear, and why it is important. She ow notices every rider we pass, and what they are wearing...

[roncg41677]

Seems like ATGATT is definitely the majority on this site :).

When my bike is running :roll: I wear everything but armored pants. After shopping for all of my gear a number of sales people told me good denim is decent protection. Not sure how accurate that is, but I kind of believed it. I try to wear jeans whenever I ride, + full face helmet, gloves, armored leather jacket and boots. And that's here in central FL in the summer. It doesn't bother me.

I've gotten used to seeing shorts/tanktops on sportbikes and jeans/vest on cruisers. What I think is really :crazy: is the way people think gear is not necessary on a scooter?! In Gainesville yesterday (there are college kids on scooters everywhere there) I saw a guy in flip flops and shorts, no shirt or helmet, on his little scooter. I'm sorry, going 40 mph on a motorcycle, scooter, bicycle or a floating banana will give you the same results if you hit the pavement. It's either college kids on their 50cc scoots, or seniors on their 600cc Bergmans. There seems to be a mindset of "well, scooters are obviously safer than motorcycles." or something.

Crazy.

[LilNinja77]

roncg,
Yes, for some reason people have a notion that they are somehow safer on scooters and don't feel the need to wear helmets.......who knows where they get that idea from :??:

I'm not trying to push more riding gear on you, but please make that decision for yourself........don't take some salesmans' word on ANYTHING. My experience has been that jeans are just barely better than riding in shorts, but at the same time I've known people who have taken spills while wearing shorts who have made it out with no real damage.......luck of the draw I suppose. Riding, as with most things in life, is all about risk acceptance.........just do whatever you are comfortable with and enjoy the ride! :2tup:

Oh, and good luck with keeping that bike of yours running :tongue:

[mr. softie]

On very smooth pavement and lower speeds jeans (heavy) might give a bit of protection from abrasion. Not from impact though. On rough pavement think of the jeans saving one layer of skin. Jeans will shred in the first foot or two of your slide. The trick is to be wearing armor when (not if) you go down. :cry:

[Water Warrior 2]

Denim might be cooler in hot weather but will last about 2 seconds or 2 feet which ever comes first in a slide and totally useless for impact protection. A pair of armoured mesh riding pants are cool, protective and not all that spendy. I have Joe Rocket gear mostly and it is decent quality. 3 pairs of pants. Balistic 5.0, Alter Ego(my fav) and Atomic Jeans. The jeans are heavier denim with armour in the knees and hips. A big + is decent pockets for stuff.

[patrick_777]

A pair of armoured mesh riding pants are cool, protective and not all that spendy.

You'll get many people on both sides of this, but some detractors will say that the mesh will simply rip off (or melt onto) your skin taking the armour with it. I can't say I'm one of them though. The impact protection is enough to make me agree with you that these are worth the money. I don't like the idea of a crushed/broken kneecap or hip point. However, I'd really like to see some studies done on these compared to Kevlar[tm:2733napy][/tm:2733napy] and Fightermesh[tm:2733napy][/tm:2733napy].

[music man]

I think we all need to chip in and buy some different types of mesh gear and let Patrick be our crash-test dummy, then we will know which ones to stay away from. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: LOL!


But on a more serious note, I have to admit I thought the same thing about the whole mesh idea until I actually got a Mesh Jacket, and I have to say that it seems like some pretty tough stuff. I had this picture in my head of some flimsy mesh material like a laundry bag or something, but the mesh on there seems like it would take a pretty good beating, plus they strategically place it on body parts that aren't likely to be sliding points anyways.


Later

[Sarris]

Look, I know I'm gonna stir up some shit with this, but I'm really getting tired of the ATFGATFT discussion. I don't do it, and it's my choice. Quit shoving these horror stories and horror videos up our butts. We/I get it.

In the biker community, it's usually (scared) newbies and (maniac) sport bikers who wear ATFGATFT. Those are the riders who need it most, so please indulge yourselves as necessary.

My point is, when it's my ass, it's my choice; when it's your ass, it's your choice. The prolonged paranoid dialog is just getting very old and is not going to convert any "non-believers".

:skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull:

[patrick_777]

Sarris on a normal day:

http://www.postimage.org/Pq1jxsIA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1jxsIA)

Please don't start this shit again.

[Sarris]

My butt is bigger than that, but I do look good in a thong.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Jer]

I think the argument is getting clouded.

The folks who dont want to wear it keep saying "its my ass, I can do what I want!"

I don't hear anyone arguing that.

What the ATGATT folks seem to be saying (how I interpret it anyway) is "You guys have got to have a screw loose to risk life and limb like that."

And the only rebuttal to that I have heard is "Yeah, so?!?!"

To which I have nothing further. To each their own.

[Sarris]

Hey Jer, I guess what I find distasteful is the notion that we who don't do ATFGATFT have a "loose screw". That is not at all the case. Most of us non-believers have carefully weighed and assesed the consequences and have made the cognitive decision not wear ATFGATFT. There are mental deficients in both the believer and non-believer categories. Most non-believers I know do wear riding boots, a helmet, t-shirt, and jeans and find that to be comfortable and and in their view, and in most situations, sufficient protection. I also find that most believers abandon ATFGATFT after a few years of safe and competant riding anyway.

Why do the believers feel the need to convert us non-believers? Why beat the horse to death?

[patrick_777]

Why beat the horse to death?

Yes.....why indeed?

[Jer]

I'm not trying to convert anyone.

I'm not reponsible for anyone's safety but my own. And those I could impact with my actions.

I think thats part of the misunderstood argument. And why it keeps coming up.

Its not a dead horse.

Its several horses. A handful of people are all beating different horses. I dont give a s*#t about anyones safety but my own. I mean I like you guys as far as "forumites" go but I'm not losing sleep over Sarris or Easy Rider's gear choices. Nor are they expecting me too.

Why are you guys trying to argue your choices as "sane and intelligent"?

Isnt that the same as me (and a couple of others) arguing them as "insane and non-intelligent"?

[Sarris]

Sanity and intelligence are not the issues, it's freedom of choice. What is sane for you may be insane for others.

So..... let's just agree to disagree.

Pat, just lock this topic and stop this continuing inane and redundant banter.

:tdown:

[patrick_777]

Because it'll just come up in another topic, and I don't feel anyone's been overtly abusive here.

You could try to just stop picking at the scab.

[Jer]

I have no nbeed to keep bringing it up. Other than the refusal to bow to the "Your point of view is any more "correct" than mine."


You are 100% correct (and dont need me telling you) that it only affects you.

We can disagree, its all good.

No problems here.

[Sarris]

No affront intended or taken.

Peace.

:2tup:

[Easy Rider]

Why are you guys trying to argue your choices as "sane and intelligent"?
Isnt that the same as me (and a couple of others) arguing them as "insane and non-intelligent"?

Those are not the same at all.......and you missed the point entirely......you almost had it then you digressed.

(Note: The "you" in the following tirade is not you personally, Jer, but an empherical you.)

The point IS, it doesn't really matter if it is insane and/or stupid, what ***I*** do is none of your F***ing business when it doesn't impact YOU. And even if it IS insane and/or stupid, it is RUDE to declare that in a public forum. I may think you are ugly and you stink but to stand up and say that in a public forum is in extremely bad taste.

So......stating that riders who don't wear "all" the gear are somehow mentally defective is rude, insulting and in bad taste. :skull:

Am I getting through? If not, I quit. That's the best explanation I've got.

[Jer]

I hear ya.

We just think differently about expressing our opinions.

Public forum, private forum, whatever,. My opinions are just that. Mine. And if I dont feel strongly enough to express them to people, here, on the bus, in line at Burger King, wherever, then I guess I really don't believe them.

But if I DO feel strongly enough to keep a hold of said opinion, I'll gladly express it wherever I feel it should be. And in this case this is the perfect forum for it. Its populated with motorcycle riders. Many of whom are the opponents of said opinion.

I'm not of the "right place for that convo" mindset. Any thought that I deem worthy of my time wont be squelched by my current location. If its worthy of me having, time and place wont divert it.

All that being said, I agree that nobody need try to convert anyone. And I've never set out to do that. You dont see me posting horriffic pictures of gore drenched accidents. Do what you want. As I'll do what I want. And just like I'll stand up to the Monstrous Harley Dudes laughing at me in my helmet, mesh jacket, gloves, boots, and 250cc motorcycle, should that/when that happens, you can deal with the folks that think your choices are ill thought.

At the end of the night we'll all sleep just fine.

[Easy Rider]

Public forum, private forum, whatever,. My opinions are just that. Mine. And if I dont feel strongly enough to express them to people, here, on the bus, in line at Burger King, wherever, then I guess I really don't believe them.



Was it you who said you were going to Atlanta (Georgia)?
If so, you had better leave that philosophy in Iowa.
Down there, they will pop a cap in your ass for saying the wrong thing in public.

[alanmcorcoran]

Sarris on a normal day:
http://www.postimage.org/Pq1jxsIA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1jxsIA)


That ass looks just like my ass!

[Jer]

Was it you who said you were going to Atlanta (Georgia)?
If so, you had better leave that philosophy in Iowa.
Down there, they will pop a cap in your ass for saying the wrong thing in public.

This "public" you speak of sounds like a very stifled/horrible place. :shocked:

I hope I never end up there. :cry:

I can't imagine a life where I was afraid to speak up anytime I didnt agree with the herd.

[Easy Rider]

That ass looks just like my ass!

TMI. (Whistle) Technnical Foul. Unsportsmanlike conduct. Alan to the penalty box. :skull:

[Magnar Infectus]

Sarris on a normal day:

*imaged edited out to protect the innocent.*

Please don't start this shit again.
Oh god my eyes. My eyes!

/searching for my titanium spork to scoup them out.

[Sarris]

It's actually Alan's ass. Nice thong too........

:puke:

[Dupo]

Well, you'll find me in t-shirt and jeans with my bandanna on my head while riding. I wear a jacket .... when its cold out. I own a full face, haven't used it more than maybe 3x. Only helmet i wear sometimes is my non-DOT german helmet. Oh and a pair of motocross gloves.

This is my choice and im stickin to it.

[davidc83]

I get asked every day "arent you hot in that jacket". Of course I am, but as I tell them, if I go down, Id rather sweat than bleed. I wear boots, armored jacket, gloves, full face helmet.

[Badbob]

I get asked every day "arent you hot in that jacket". Of course I am, but as I tell them, if I go down, Id rather sweat than bleed. I wear boots, armored jacket, gloves, full face helmet.

I get asked the same kind of questions. It's only hot if I'm stopped. It's not as hot as riding to work in my old truck with no air conditioning.

[Water Warrior 2]

Sheesh, I leave town for a week and come back to an almost blood letting. As stated before on ocassion, both Lynda and I wear ATGATT. This is our choice. Neither of us will try to convert anyone else. I am more than willing to describe various safety gear we wear and it's benefits/drawbacks but the choice is up to each and every one of us as to our riding gear. I will always be one of the first to step up to the plate and suggest riding gear to a newbie. Many new riders do not know about leathers, armoured elbows, shoulders and hips etc. Lack of knowledge should not be a determining factor. Knowledge should be the determining factor with most decisions in life. What you do with the knowledge is your choice and I will repect that choice.

[Jer]

I didnt know about the armored jackets til I got here.

I figured a helmet was all I needed.

I learned I was wrong.

[Water Warrior 2]

I didnt know about the armored jackets til I got here.

I figured a helmet was all I needed.

I learned I was wrong.

No you were not wrong. You just did not know what was available. If you are considering more riding gear then I would suggest New Enough as a good start for gear. Over the Fall and Winter months they will be clearing out good gear at decent prices. Making room for new models/styles(2009) is a bonus to everyone seeking new gear or upgrading. Earlier this year I bought a 1 year old new helmet. Still good for 4 more years before it starts to deteriorate and paid half the suggested list price. That is money in the bank.

[Jer]

I would like to get a pair of mesh/armor overpants.

[mr. softie]

I am looking for a pair of over pants for hot weather as well. I am also considering the purchase of a Phantom suit by Olympia for the coming cold weather.

Leather-up has Xelement classic-fit denim jeans on sale for 39.95. I will report on how these work out. Gonna try a pair for my commute. They have knee pads and flex panels.

I personally wear gear for the comfort it affords, especially on all day rides. The protection from wind/sun burn, stones, bugs, birds! rain, dust, dirt, cold etc. I am just plain more comfortable when wearing it. I don't anticipate having a crash, but with my luck...

[Jer]

Leather-up has Xelement classic-fit denim jeans on sale for 39.95. I will report on how these work out. Gonna try a pair for my commute. They have knee pads and flex panels.

Definitely let me know how those work out.

[Badbob]

I would like to get a pair of mesh/armor overpants.

I like the Firstgear HT Air 2.0 Overpants I have two pair. These are great for hot weather as they let the air through. They also make them for cooler areas.

Firstgear HT Air 2.0 Overpants (http://tinyurl.com/5rlb2v)
Firstgear HT Air 2.0 Overpants (http://tinyurl.com/59mljl)

[Jer]

Cool. Thanks for the recommendation.

[patrick_777]

Leather-up has Xelement classic-fit denim jeans on sale for 39.95. I will report on how these work out. Gonna try a pair for my commute. They have knee pads and flex panels.

I just ordered a pair of these too. For $40, I couldn't pass up at least trying them. I'll see how they fit, but hopefully I won't have to performance test them for a while.

[Jer]

I cant find these on the leatherup.com site.

Can you post a link?

[patrick_777]

http://tinyurl.com/5au2bn

[patrick_777]

I got these pants in today and they fit a little tighter for the size, say maybe 1/2" and are a 32 inseam. The stretch panels are very nice but the removable knee "armor" is soft and really very flat and will need to be broken in/shaped by wear. The denim is not as thick as I had hoped. It's about the weight of normal Levis. Given that, I doubt it would hold up to much of an asphalt-slide, maybe cement parking lot, but definitely not highway asphalt.

They fit well while sitting on the either bike (sport or cruiser) riding position, and allow for a lot of movement in the knees and waist. The flex panels breath well and if you look at the enlarged pics on the site, they wrap from outside the knees, inside the thigh and across the groin giving a nice flowing breeze "down there", if you know what I mean -- and I think you do.

So far I like them enough that I have ordered 2 more pair. At less than $40 each, they seem to be a good deal, if even just for a pair of comfortable jeans to wear riding to the store and back.

[alanmcorcoran]

So Patrick, If I'm a 32/32 what size would I order for the right fit?

(Note: when I go off my fitness regimen, I tend to quickly balloon up to a 35" but I've been holding steady at about a 32.5 for a while now. My armored pants have some adjustment built into in the sides.)

[patrick_777]

Get the 34. You can always (and should) wear a belt. And for riding jeans, you probably don't want to go stripping the seams to take them out.

[alanmcorcoran]

Thanks. I've grown to like my Batman style padded and armored pants, but they are a bit much for the office. I'm looking for something I can use for the short commute to work, but offers more protection than Wranglers.

[Mandachan]

Wow..interesting convo.


Honestly, I think past experiances and personal experiances are what shapes a person in what they choose to do. Me and my husband always leave with full gear - it was one of the stipulations i had before he bought a bike. He's only 28, and I'm only 25. And it would suck to loose him this early due to something that was mostly preventable.

Personally, I've taken the MSF class, and working in medicine....well, the Brain Death studies i do - we see some motorcycle crashes.... Once you see what it looks like to have those types of burns/head injuries/body injuries...you wouldn't ever wish to experiance any of that. There was even an ER physician in our MSF class..lol not someone you normally expect to see in those classes =).


Being in florida - i can honestly say we're REALLY in the minority. Even with the MSF class being mandatory for all motorcycle riders now. I went to BikeFest this past weekend, and it amazed me that we were 1 of maybe 2 other couples/people that were actually wearing boots/mesh jacket/pants/full face helmet/gloves.


Personally, I'm a rather strong believer in out of sight, out of mind. If you never see it first hand, you'll probably always take the risk. But, it's your risk, not mine!

I met a guy before i started riding, he was a respiratory therapist - he layed his busa down doing about 180 on a free way wearing only t-shirt and jeans and a helmet. He lived to tell about it. And he never ever goes out without all his gear now. He had road rash on about 50% of his body.


OMG i'm done now. I am just rambling, so don't take anything i say as personal plzkthx!

[music man]

First of all, If you are doing 180 on the highway on any motorcycle (or car for that matter) the last thing that is probably on your mind is worrying about Road Rash. You have already made peace with road rash, dying, broken bones, and even though anything is possible, the chances of you not getting road rash going that fast even with gear on is slim to none. So in closing if I ever go 180 on a bike and then crash and live to tell about it, you will not hear me saying a word about the road rash I got.

[Mandachan]

Lol well yeah...his point to me was "I was young and stupid and didn't think it would happen to me, and it was addicting going that fast".

[mr. softie]

I received those xelement jeans the other day. (see previous post on pg 3 of this thread). They will do for casual rides in warm/dry weather. The rise is a little shorter than I would like, and I prefer deeper pockets. Worth the dough though. Knee armor seems good. The sizing is the same as Levi's etc. The stretchy parts add comfort but look funny. In cooler/wet weather I plan on using a one piece Fieldsheer Highland II suit I just ordered from Bike Bandit.
http://www.postimage.org/aVf4e_9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVf4e_9)

http://www.postimage.org/gxdO1ki.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxdO1ki)

http://www.postimage.org/Pqf4wfA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqf4wfA)

[YoungRider2010]

Glad to say im in the minority then!!! I am definatly an all the gear, all the time rider!! 100 degrees in august...im wearing my jacket and helmet and gloves...TRY TO STOP ME! :rawk:

[Water Warrior 2]

Both Lynda and I are ATGATT. If it so hot that my mesh or ventilated gear won't work for me I will just take an A/C cage. Heat exhaustion, dehydration and the like are not worth being a tough guy. It is about the amount of risk a person is willing to accept when riding. Gear, no gear = your choice.

[Val]

Two weeks ago, I slid out on oil (from my drain plug falling out - mechanic error) going around a near 90 degree turn. I was in: full face helmet, armoured (Canadian spelling) vented jacket and gloves, boots. (Need to look into pants.) When I looked at all of the concrete and shoulder gravel rub points, it reinforced my personal choice to ride ATGATT. The contact points:
Helmet: small hole at top right, then scrapes top to chin on right side.
Gloves: right knuckles rubbed through textile to armour, top rubber on fingers embedded with dirt, palms full of gravel.
Jacket: rub spot and blood inside left elbow that rubbed INSIDE on the textile
Boots: rub spot on side of one boot
Pants (jeans): didn't wear through, probably because I had slowed through the curve

It seems that several bits of me could have become hamburger without the gear, and I wasn't going that fast. ATGATT for sure for me is reinforced.

(Another consideration: I have enough aches and pains from the natural aging process - I don't need any more!)

[Water Warrior 2]

Two weeks ago, I slid out on oil (from my drain plug falling out - mechanic error) going around a near 90 degree turn. I was in: full face helmet, armoured (Canadian spelling) vented jacket and gloves, boots. (Need to look into pants.) When I looked at all of the concrete and shoulder gravel rub points, it reinforced my personal choice to ride ATGATT. The contact points:
Helmet: small hole at top right, then scrapes top to chin on right side.
Gloves: right knuckles rubbed through textile to armour, top rubber on fingers embedded with dirt, palms full of gravel.
Jacket: rub spot and blood inside left elbow that rubbed INSIDE on the textile
Boots: rub spot on side of one boot
Pants (jeans): didn't wear through, probably because I had slowed through the curve

It seems that several bits of me could have become hamburger without the gear, and I wasn't going that fast. ATGATT for sure for me is reinforced.

(Another consideration: I have enough aches and pains from the natural aging process - I don't need any more!)

Val, sounds like you will be needing some replacement gear. The helmet for sure. Hopefully the shop will pony up for your new stuff without a battle. Have you noticed the natural aging process is reversed while riding ?

[Val]

The "family bikes" trend came about as a result of what my husband refers to as "The midlife crisis that my wife dragged the whole family into with her." So the bikes were a response to and now an antidote from the aging process.

[greenhorn]

Why beat the horse to death?

Yes.....why indeed?

Now THAT wood hurt , in a thong, without protective gear... ehhh?